This is for YY - Proof of the Existence of a God.

[MMcNeely]

Please YY, provide proof of the existence of a god (Allah, Jesus, flying spaghetti monster, etc.)  We all wish to be enlightened!

[The Wannabe]

And to add to that, could you tell us whether you're a theist, atheist, agnostic, agnostic theist, gnostic atheist, or an agnostic gnostic?

[One Above All]

And to add to that, could you tell us whether you're a theist, atheist, agnostic, agnostic theist, gnostic athiest, or an agnostic gnostic?

Wait, what?
PS: It's "atheist"

[The Wannabe]

agnostic gnostic?

Wait, what?
PS: It's "atheist"

That was merely a little quip. 
PS: I FIXED THE TYPO.  THANK YOU

[YY]

Let me preface this by saying that this might not be "Proof" per say, but by your definition, spag. So get your replies ready. . .

This was what I wrote in a previous thread:

Is there a possibility that "God" does not exist according to your definition? Might I have a different definition that you possibly don't understand or agree with?

Personally, I believe that God is everything -- I mean everything. I think God is the seen, unseen, inanimate, subatomic stuff that makes up our universe and beyond.

Why is this significant in my life? Well, that's a whole nuther Oprah. In a nutshell, when I see that we are all a part of God, I see a unified connection between you and me and the world as a whole. It's just like saying that I wouldn't stab myself in the leg if I had a headache because we're all a part of the same body. It also makes me realize that I don't want to take a s*** where I live, and since everywhere is my home, I don't want to take a s*** anywhere in a figurative sense.

[curiousgirl]

Let me preface this by saying that this might not be "Proof" per say, but by your definition, spag. So get your replies ready. . .

That alone kills the argument.

[MMcNeely]

So, what your saying is that you can't provide any sort of evidence to the existence of any type of god?  Not even a clear logical statement?

[The Wannabe]

You have a working theory but no proof.  Hmm....  What lead you to believe in your special version of SPAG?

[YY]

So, what your saying is that you can't provide any sort of evidence to the existence of any type of god?  Not even a clear logical statement?

Well, if I believe that God is everything, the proof is that there is anything.

[The Wannabe]

So, what your saying is that you can't provide any sort of evidence to the existence of any type of god?  Not even a clear logical statement?

Well, if I believe that God is everything, the proof is that there is anything.

So, if "God" is everything, then "God" is nothing.  If something is everything else, it's not truly something it's everything.  YY, wouldn't it be easier to say there is no "God" then to jump through these mental hoops?

[YY]

You have a working theory but no proof.  Hmm....  What lead you to believe in your special version of SPAG?

I believe that God is everything. Proof is that there is anything here at all.

I was led to this conclusion by reading different versions of what other people believed was God and then felt that this version is the one that most resembles my understanding of God. I also practice this belief and find that I really enjoy the way I am. This reinforces my decision that I've chosen a belief that supports my life rather than one that limits my outlook on life.

[YY]

So, if "God" is everything, then "God" is nothing.  If something is everything else, it's not truly something it's everything.  YY, wouldn't it be easier to say there is no "God" then to jump through these mental hoops?

If I didn't believe in a unifying force for everything, I could then take it that there is separation. If I am separate from you, I'd want things for myself. If I see that you are a part of me, I'd want to figure out ways to accommodate both of us.

[MMcNeely]

I believe that God is everything. Proof is that there is anything here at all.

Just because something is real to you, doesn't make it real.  Example: Santa Clause

[YY]

I believe that God is everything. Proof is that there is anything here at all.

Just because something is real to you, doesn't make it real.  Example: Santa Clause

Correction, if something is real to me, doesn't make it real (to you).

Again:

Is there a possibility that "God" does not exist according to your definition? Might I have a different definition that you possibly don't understand or agree with?

[The Wannabe]

So, if "God" is everything, then "God" is nothing.  If something is everything else, it's not truly something it's everything.  YY, wouldn't it be easier to say there is no "God" then to jump through these mental hoops?

If I didn't believe in a unifying force for everything, I could then take it that there is separation. If I am separate from you, I'd want things for myself. If I see that you are a part of me, I'd want to figure out ways to accommodate both of us.

I think you can have you're cake and eat it too in this case.  I believe we are separate, yet connected.  There is no "force", or god that connects us, it is merely our common origin and place in the world that allows us to relate and sympathize with one another.  I am not you, but we both rely on the same natural processes found only on this planet to exist. 

It's not really a big deal to me whether you want to call the universe "God" or not.  I believe that pantheist have a model of reality that is more similar to that of an atheist, then that of a theist.

[MMcNeely]

Correction, if something is real to me, doesn't make it real (to you).

Again:

Is there a possibility that "God" does not exist according to your definition? Might I have a different definition that you possibly don't understand or agree with?

I didn't need to be corrected there.  Santa Clause can be real to you, but that doesn't make him real.  Flying pink unicorns can be real to you, but that doesn't make them real.  God can be real to you (in any form) but that doesn't make him/her/it real.  You can believe and believe and believe but that will never make anything real.  Only actually being real will make something real.

[curiousgirl]

Well, if I believe that God is everything, the proof is that there is anything.

That cannot work because it defeats the purpose of your use of the word "God". Anything=anything. It does not logically follow that anything=God.

You are begging the question. That is a fallacy. Check out this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Begging the question (or petitio principii, "assuming the initial point") is a type of logical fallacy in which the proposition to be proven is assumed implicitly or explicitly in the premise.

[YY]

I didn't need to be corrected there.  Santa Clause can be real to you, but that doesn't make him real.  Flying pink unicorns can be real to you, but that doesn't make them real.  God can be real to you (in any form) but that doesn't make him/her/it real.  You can believe and believe and believe but that will never make anything real.  Only actually being real will make something real.

But Santa Clause is not real to me. Flying pink unicorns are also not real to me. I understand what you are trying to say, but at this point, we simply disagree. If I can't prove something to your liking, there's no need to continue.

[Alzael]

I didn't need to be corrected there.  Santa Clause can be real to you, but that doesn't make him real.  Flying pink unicorns can be real to you, but that doesn't make them real.  God can be real to you (in any form) but that doesn't make him/her/it real.  You can believe and believe and believe but that will never make anything real.  Only actually being real will make something real.

But Santa Clause is not real to me. Flying pink unicorns are also not real to me. I understand what you are trying to say, but at this point, we simply disagree. If I can't prove something to your liking, there's no need to continue.

I believe the issue here is whether you can prove it at all. You do realize that there are certain standards for evidence that exist, right?

[YY]

You are begging the question. That is a fallacy.

This is where we have disconnect. You are looking for a measurable answer. Although my answer may be begging the question, the answer is really the sentiment behind the meaning of the "allness" and how it impacts my life. My answer may need to include a dissertation to explain why God=everything is not just what it seems at face value.

[YY]

I believe the issue here is whether you can prove it at all. You do realize that there are certain standards for evidence that exist, right?

In that case, I cannot.  All I can do is try to relate how I see God and how this impacts my life.

[curiousgirl]

You are begging the question. That is a fallacy.

This is where we have disconnect. You are looking for a measurable answer. Although my answer may be begging the question, the answer is really the sentiment behind the meaning of the "allness" and how it impacts my life. My answer may need to include a dissertation to explain why God=everything is not just what it seems at face value.

I'm sorry, but "the sentiment behind the meaning of the 'allness'" and how it impacts your life does not constitute a logical argument. How can any of us take you seriously?

[MMcNeely]

I'm sorry, but "the sentiment behind the meaning of the 'allness'" and how it impacts your life does not constitute a logical argument. How can any of us take you seriously?

We can't curious.

But Santa Clause is not real to me. Flying pink unicorns are also not real to me. I understand what you are trying to say, but at this point, we simply disagree. If I can't prove something to your liking, there's no need to continue.

It does not matter what is real to you, only what is real.  Saying I don't believe in gravity doesn't make it less real.  It is either entirely real or entirely fake.

[YY]

I'm sorry, but "the sentiment behind the meaning of the 'allness'" and how it impacts your life does not constitute a logical argument. How can any of us take you seriously?

If you're prying for a canned answer so that you can deliver another canned comeback, you won't get that from me. I'm just trying my best to relate to you why I believe in God and how it impacts my life.

The proof is real enough for me, but it isn't for you. I get that. I get that you don't even see it as proof. I have more circumstantial evidence on display in the way my life plays out. Circumstantial evidence is submissible so there you go.

[curiousgirl]

Look, YY, I would believe the circumstantial evidence in your life (aka personal experience) if it was supported by some objective type of evidence. The problem, as I have stated before, is that personal experience is highly subjective. On its own, it is not necessarily believable.

[YY]

It does not matter what is real to you, only what is real.  Saying I don't believe in gravity doesn't make it less real.  It is either entirely real or entirely fake.

Like I said before, I understand what you're saying. But now, we're going to have to get philosophical. What exactly is real? Does reality constitute anything that you can perceive with your 5 senses? Might there be an argument that God is not comprehendible with a logical mind? This may be why atheists get so frustrated with theists. You need to remove logic and reason in order to understand this fascination with God!

[curiousgirl]

Oh, no. YY, solipsism is not going to help your case.

[YY]

Look, YY, I would believe the circumstantial evidence in your life (aka personal experience) if it was supported by some objective type of evidence. The problem, as I have stated before, is that personal experience is highly subjective. On its own, it is not necessarily believable.

True, but I'm not (normally) trying to prove why I believe in God to anyone else. The only person it really matters to is me. From that point, I choose to believe in God or I choose to redefine my understanding of God, or I release that altogether. I think it all boils down to the effect God has on your life.  At this point in the history of mankind, you won't get an answer you like.

[MMcNeely]

The proof is real enough for me, but it isn't for you. I get that. I get that you don't even see it as proof. I have more circumstantial evidence on display in the way my life plays out. Circumstantial evidence is submissible so there you go.

As far as I can read, you haven't given any evidence to the existence of god.  Circumstantial or not.  Just a generic statement that god=everything because I believe it to be true.  No wiki links or youtube videos explaining your position, not even some ambiguous story on how god revealed this information to you.  Just a thesis, and nothing that resembles any sort of evidence.