Author Topic: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?  (Read 4905 times)

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Offline violatedsmurf80

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Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« on: September 21, 2011, 05:58:37 PM »
Throughout history scientists have been persecuted by the religious IF their findings did not agree with the religious beliefs of that society. From Galileo to Darwin. Darwin kept his secret for a long time due to the reaction he knew he would get from powerful religious people. The church supports science as long as it agrees with the religious doctrine. This church interference prevented scientists of the past to publish their findings.

Would we understand more, have more cures and medical technology today if churches never persecuted scientists? What reaction would have come even if the churches allowed the science to revile itself? Was the church afraid that they would lose control over the population if the population found out that the bible had many inaccurately and does it affect the current population in today world for test, let say, stem cell research or even cloning? 
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”--- Sinclair Lewis

I believe there is something out there watching over us. Unfortunately, it's the government.

Offline jetson

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 06:32:04 PM »
OK - I can't believe you don't know the answer to this question?  Haven't you been paying attention?   ;D

Seriously, with regards to scientific advancement, we have very powerful groups right now, doing everything in their power to shut down scientific advancement, in the name of their delusions.  Stem cell research comes to mind.  Teaching creationism by attacking and attempting to tear down evolution....oh, the list goes on and on.

So, yes.

P.S.  I still like you.   :o

Offline dloubet

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 06:53:28 PM »
There was this thing called the Dark Ages, and it lasted for centuries. It's what happens when religion is in charge. Without the Dark Ages, there's no reason to think we wouldn't be centuries ahead right now.
Denis Loubet


Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2011, 07:31:13 AM »
I don't think there's any question that science could be more advanced if religion weren't involved[1].  The question, then, is where we'd actually be in such a society.
 1. Bearing in mind, of course, that it's not just religion that can affect the situation; a barbarian invasion can do a pretty good job of trashing a society, including its science, and other things as well.

Offline Nick

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2011, 07:36:13 AM »
YES, YES, 1000 times YES.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Tykster

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2011, 08:47:40 AM »
Yes.
rhocam ~ I guess there are several trillion cells in a man, and one in an amoeba, so to be generous, lets say that there were a billion. That is one every fifteen years. So in my lifetime I should have seen two evolutionary changes.

Offline DVZ3

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2011, 05:35:26 PM »

Education and science should be religions death nail. Not only would science be far more advanced but so would our social culture as a whole. There would be less prejedice based on others rituals due to their own creation myths.  ;)

I generally find the more educated a person is the more likely they're not sold on any creation myths due to a god enitity. And I think even if people are educated and hold a religous belief it seems to be always tied to some sort of self motivation for it being monetary (the reap some sort of profit for promoting it) or emotional gain ...  :-\
Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Offline DVZ3

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2011, 05:42:47 PM »

Interesting timeline of potential future events based on trends in technology, politics, and world cultures..
http://www.futuretimeline.net/index.htm

An interesting potential event by the year 2090 "Religion is fading from European culture"

http://www.futuretimeline.net/21stcentury/2090-2099.htm

An interesting potential event by the year 2240 "Religion is fading from American culture"

http://www.futuretimeline.net/23rdcentury/2200-2249.htm
Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Offline IAmFirst

Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2011, 06:32:26 AM »
Ha! Ask Gallileo Galiei!

I still don't think we'd be living on Mars right now, but for more planetary elements along the lines of disease would be of more interest to study if no one was praying for a cure for themselves, or their own kid like we've seen recently.  &)
2nd of all, if all you believe in is peer-reviewed papers, you won't go very far in life...

-- Shin :D

Offline DKaimus

Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2011, 11:11:26 PM »
Bet we'd have flying cars!  Like George Jetson promised me all those years...

Offline jetson

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2011, 11:12:08 PM »
Bet we'd have flying cars!  Like George Jetson promised me all those years...

My bad.

Offline ungod

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2011, 03:27:43 PM »
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Online relativetruth

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2011, 03:51:07 PM »
Don't forget our numeric system comes from Arabic mathematicians who had made great advancements before Islamic leaders decided that science was anti-god.
God(s) exist and are imaginary

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2011, 03:55:47 PM »
Don't forget our numeric system comes from Arabic mathematicians who had made great advancements before Islamic leaders decided that science was anti-god.
Actually, 'Arabic' numerals are actually from India if you want to get technical about it.  Basically, Europeans didn't know beans about India and assumed that Arabs were the source of the numerals.

Online relativetruth

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2011, 04:07:18 PM »
^^^^
OK I take your point.

My point was that in medieval times Islamic ScienceWiki was not an oxymoron.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 04:09:39 PM by relativetruth »
God(s) exist and are imaginary

Offline gundeep

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2011, 04:23:28 PM »
I HAVE PROOF OF GOD
OPEN CHALLENGE TO ANYONE

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2011, 04:30:26 PM »

The "Dark Ages" are a bit of a myth; the concept was invented by historians in the 18-19th centuries, and the tag stuck. It wasn't so black and white, and science didn't stagnate as it does in the graph. Wiki:

The medieval period is frequently caricatured as supposedly a "time of ignorance and superstition" which placed "the word of religious authorities over personal experience and rational activity."[34]

Actually, reason was generally held in high regard during the Middle Ages. The historian of science Edward Grant, writes that "If revolutionary rational thoughts were expressed [in the 18th century], they were only made possible because of the long medieval tradition that established the use of reason as one of the most important of human activities". Also, contrary to common belief, David Lindberg says "the late medieval scholar rarely experienced the coercive power of the church and would have regarded himself as free (particularly in the natural sciences) to follow reason and observation wherever they led".

Other misconceptions such as: "the Church prohibited autopsies and dissections during the Middle Ages", "the rise of Christianity killed off ancient science", and "the medieval Christian church suppressed the growth of natural philosophy", are all cited by Ronald Numbers as examples of widely popular myths that still pass as historical truth, although they are not supported by current historical research
.

And talking about universities:

The first universities (University of Bologna (1088), Paris (teach. mid-11th century, recogn. 1150), Oxford (teach. 1096, recogn. 1167), Modena (1175), University of Palencia (1208), Cambridge (1209), Padua (1222), Toulouse (1229), Orleans (1235) began as private corporations of teachers and their pupils.

So three hundred years before the Renaissance, universities were being established across Europe. Sure, the Church was involved, but the principle of secular education and science was established then.

It seems pointless to ask where science would be without religion. Religion was a crucial aspect of mankind's development; its early appearence, ubiquity and longevity testify to that. Without it we might still be living in caves.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 04:54:51 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline jetson

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2011, 04:58:49 PM »
I HAVE PROOF OF GOD
OPEN CHALLENGE TO ANYONE

You are new to the forum, so this can slide, but do me a favor and get in your three replies, then start a new topic!

Thanks, and welcome!

Jetson.

Offline violatedsmurf80

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 08:51:02 PM »
Don't forget our numeric system comes from Arabic mathematicians who had made great advancements before Islamic leaders decided that science was anti-god.
Actually, 'Arabic' numerals are actually from India if you want to get technical about it.  Basically, Europeans didn't know beans about India and assumed that Arabs were the source of the numerals.

The Islamic culture also invented medicine way before the Europeans did and it also influenced the Europeans. 
http://www.experiment-resources.com/islamic-medicine.html
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/arabic/arabichome.html
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”--- Sinclair Lewis

I believe there is something out there watching over us. Unfortunately, it's the government.

Offline Eaten by Bears

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2011, 03:11:50 PM »
I HAVE PROOF OF GOD
OPEN CHALLENGE TO ANYONE

Can you prove you know where the Caps Lock key is?

Offline gundeep

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2011, 03:08:39 PM »
ACTUALLY I VISITED A TEMPLE IN INDIA AND THERE IS A  800 YEAR OLD WALL  WHICH VIBRATES RIGOROUSLY
WHEN SOMEONE SITS ON IT.
OPEN CHALLENGE TO NON BELEIVERS

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2011, 03:15:03 PM »
Don't forget our numeric system comes from Arabic mathematicians who had made great advancements before Islamic leaders decided that science was anti-god.
Actually, 'Arabic' numerals are actually from India if you want to get technical about it.  Basically, Europeans didn't know beans about India and assumed that Arabs were the source of the numerals.

The Islamic culture also invented medicine way before the Europeans did and it also influenced the Europeans. 
http://www.experiment-resources.com/islamic-medicine.html
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/arabic/arabichome.html
Yeah, there's lots of things that Europeans didn't invent or come up with on their own.  They just happened to put all the pieces together at the right time and were able to spread their influence around the world.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2011, 03:33:04 PM »
ACTUALLY I VISITED A TEMPLE IN INDIA AND THERE IS A  800 YEAR OLD WALL  WHICH VIBRATES RIGOROUSLY
WHEN SOMEONE SITS ON IT.
OPEN CHALLENGE TO NON BELEIVERS

Please do not type in all capital letters.  It's rude.  Thank you.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Hatter23

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2011, 04:04:32 PM »
Don't forget our numeric system comes from Arabic mathematicians who had made great advancements before Islamic leaders decided that science was anti-god.
Actually, 'Arabic' numerals are actually from India if you want to get technical about it.  Basically, Europeans didn't know beans about India and assumed that Arabs were the source of the numerals.

The Islamic culture also invented medicine way before the Europeans did and it also influenced the Europeans. 
http://www.experiment-resources.com/islamic-medicine.html
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/arabic/arabichome.html

Don't undersell the influence of the greeks and romans on the advancement of medicine. To say the Islamic Culture invented medicine is just not true. However, they were advancing medicine while the west stagnated IS true.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2011, 04:10:20 PM »
Quote
Quote
ACTUALLY I VISITED A TEMPLE IN INDIA AND THERE IS A  800 YEAR OLD WALL  WHICH VIBRATES RIGOROUSLY WHEN SOMEONE SITS ON IT.
Please do not type in all capital letters.  It's rude.  Thank you.
Also, don't use long words such as 'rigorously' if you don't know what they mean.

rigour US, rigor (n)

1. harsh but just treatment or action
2. a severe or cruel circumstance; hardship
3. strictness, harshness, or severity of character
4. strictness in judgment or conduct; rigorism
5. (Mathematics) (Philosophy / Logic) logical validity or accuracy
6. Obsolete: rigidity


None of those apply. Try 'vigourously'.

Quote
OPEN CHALLENGE TO NON BELEIVERS
It's 'believers'. Sorry, 'BELIEVERS'.

I know this is nit-picking, but there's little else to pick.


Offline violatedsmurf80

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2011, 10:31:11 PM »
Quote
Don't undersell the influence of the greeks and romans on the advancement of medicine. To say the Islamic Culture invented medicine is just not true. However, they were advancing medicine while the west stagnated IS true.

By no means they did a great job creating the instruments and categorizing diseases and such, but Abu al-Qasim (Abulcasis), who some have called the father of modern surgery, wrote the Kitab al-Tasrif, a 30-volume medical encyclopedia which was taught at Muslim and European medical schools until the 17th century. He used numerous surgical instruments, including some that are unique to women. There were other to I just cant remember them. Now if it was not for "The Great Christians" and GoD then I am sure it would of been more advanced then the Muslims. By the way the Muslims also created the first hospital which was taken back to Europe during the crusades.

http://www.muslimtents.com/almarja/zahravi.html     
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”--- Sinclair Lewis

I believe there is something out there watching over us. Unfortunately, it's the government.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Would science be more advanced if religion did not exist?
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2011, 11:57:37 PM »
Quote
Don't undersell the influence of the greeks and romans on the advancement of medicine. To say the Islamic Culture invented medicine is just not true. However, they were advancing medicine while the west stagnated IS true.

By no means they did a great job creating the instruments and categorizing diseases and such, but Abu al-Qasim (Abulcasis), who some have called the father of modern surgery, wrote the Kitab al-Tasrif, a 30-volume medical encyclopedia which was taught at Muslim and European medical schools until the 17th century. He used numerous surgical instruments, including some that are unique to women. There were other to I just cant remember them. Now if it was not for "The Great Christians" and GoD then I am sure it would of been more advanced then the Muslims. By the way the Muslims also created the first hospital which was taken back to Europe during the crusades.

http://www.muslimtents.com/almarja/zahravi.html   

Specifically, I was referring to Galen, who is also referred to as the father of modern surgery. But he marked the end of Western advancement in Medicine in the mid second century. Pretty much every advancement beyond Galen was copied from the Arabs until the 17th century, perhaps as late as the early 18th.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.