Where Does God Say He'll Heal Amputees?

[Azdgari]

That's odd.  Who were the beast and the false prophet who'd been thrown into the lake of burning sulphur before the devil was?

[SERPENT KILLA]

B.S. my ass ! What most christians do is give 10% of their income not to charity, but to the place of worship that they attend. I've got news for ya mate:--giving to your church is not giving to charity..It's lining religions pockets that's all.

I don't know which church you are talking about when you say "your church"

I know what my church does and how my church helps our community and the poor.
I don't have to tell you the truth, but at the same time I don't want to lie to you either.  I make $9.50/hr at a restaurant and I give one tenth of all my income. because I know how it is being spent.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
Hopefully you don't spend all your money for yourself and spend the rest of it on some science book written by some atheist. When childrend are dying every 5 seconds.

[Emily]

All that talk about god tormenting those who don't believe in him makes him sound even more cruel than drowning the entire world, save 8 people (one of whom was a drunk)

If heaven is such a great place than anyone would want to go there, minus the never-ending church service bowing down before a tyrannical dictator. But lets assume heaven is a place of no more pain or suffering, with pearly gates and streets lined with gold, with the best tasting food, water, healthiest air to breath, (best sex), etc. is it truly necessary for god to create a place of fire and brimstone for those who were deceived by the devil? Especially since god was behind the deception in the first place. I mean, god is holding such a horrible grudge. It's time for him to grow up. He could've stopped a lot of this mess from happening.

I mean, oK, so we were deceived. I get that point.  with over 40,000 denominations of Christianity we are all deceived, Christians and atheists alike.  The ones to lead the world astray are the ones who are practicing and following the bible according to their own interpretations of it, and more than likely your pastor is doing to you, Killa. He/she, along with the conflicting stories and interpretations of how he/she views the bible compared to the other so called "followers of christ", have made it down right impossible for anyone to get into heaven.

 

[SERPENT KILLA]

That's odd.  Who were the beast and the false prophet who'd been thrown into the lake of burning sulphur before the devil was?

Those 3 are called 'unholy trinity' I honestly don't know why those two bastard were there first, but I know for sure where they are going to end up.
I think the devil is such a copycat of God

[Emily]

WHAT DO YOU DO?
Hopefully you don't spend all your money for yourself and spend the rest of it on some science book written by some atheist. When childrend are dying every 5 seconds.

Do you SERIOUSLY want to go there? I hope not. I mean, we could spout about you being told to sell all your possessions according to Luke 12:33, but then again you're talking to us on a computer. 

[curiousgirl]

Serpent Killa, please give us a logical reason for why you believe in God. If you use the Bible as your reason, be prepared to acknowledge that you are using circular reasoning (the Bible is true because it is God's Word and God is real because the Bible says so....), which is illogical.

[Azdgari]

That's odd.  Who were the beast and the false prophet who'd been thrown into the lake of burning sulphur before the devil was?

Those 3 are called 'unholy trinity' I honestly don't know why those two bastard were there first, but I know for sure where they are going to end up.
I think the devil is such a copycat of God

Your god must still want your devil to do whatever it is you believe he does, if he chose to keep him around - and even invite him into Eden - rather than destroying him.

[jetson]

B.S. my ass ! What most christians do is give 10% of their income not to charity, but to the place of worship that they attend. I've got news for ya mate:--giving to your church is not giving to charity..It's lining religions pockets that's all.

I don't know which church you are talking about when you say "your church"

I know what my church does and how my church helps our community and the poor.
I don't have to tell you the truth, but at the same time I don't want to lie to you either.  I make $9.50/hr at a restaurant and I give one tenth of all my income. because I know how it is being spent.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
Hopefully you don't spend all your money for yourself and spend the rest of it on some science book written by some atheist. When childrend are dying every 5 seconds.

You know how it is being spent, exactly?  Why don't you show us how it is being spent, exactly.  Here's what I'd like to know:  how many church members, how much the church collects monthly, and how much it spends monthly on daily operations versus charity.

My guess is that unless you are an administrator at the church, and actually work the books, that you have no idea what the church does with it's money, outside of various events it holds that are for "charity".

[screwtape]

"The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." (Revelation 12:9)

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever" (Revelation 20:10)

Red removed because it's obnoxious.

Hi. 

I have a couple questions. 

• Do you know who wrote revelation?
• Was revelation written to be taken in a straight forward and literal way, was it written metaphorically, or was it written as some combination?
• Follow up to the previous question: How do you know?
• Do you know the evolution of the concept of the devil/ Satan?
• Do you have a problem with science?  I ask because you said something about spending money on science books in what struck me as a rather derogatory way.

[velkyn]

That's odd.  Who were the beast and the false prophet who'd been thrown into the lake of burning sulphur before the devil was?

Those 3 are called 'unholy trinity' I honestly don't know why those two bastard were there first, but I know for sure where they are going to end up.
I think the devil is such a copycat of God

I think, and your bible says, that the "devil" is in cahoots with your god.  We have your god either being too ignorant  to notice a "snake" in his perfect garden and allows things to proceed with never a warning to Adam or Eve or intentionally allowing it.  We have your god gambling with this "devil" and your god allowing humans to be murdered for no other reason than he's gambling.  We also have your god supposedly defeating this "devil", killing all evil people on earth, allowing JC to reign over the earth and the beleivers for an "aeon" and after all of this, your god *must* allow this devil loose again, to wreak even more havok. 

Serpent killa, I think you should read your bible rather than just parroting what you've been told about it.  Also, you need to realize that other people than your special type of Christain are also good people who also donate to worthy causes.  Your ignorance, and snotty attitude don't become you.  I'll ask you one thing, if Christians are just so wonderful and so is their god, why indeed is a child dying ever 5 seconds?  Where are the quails and manna?  The loaves and fishes?  The magical healing for just believing in such imaginary beings?   

[SERPENT KILLA]

Do you SERIOUSLY want to go there? I hope not. I mean, we could spout about you being told to sell all your possessions according to Luke 12:33, but then again you're talking to us on a computer.

Guess I am not perfect.

[velkyn]

Do you SERIOUSLY want to go there? I hope not. I mean, we could spout about you being told to sell all your possessions according to Luke 12:33, but then again you're talking to us on a computer.

Guess I am not perfect.

No one is.  However, the problem as I see it is that Christians claim to have some magical knowledge and then don't even *try* to follow it.  Your bible can be quite specific on what it takes to get into heaven.  I have yet to see any Christians follow those directions; they always opt for the easiest, simplest version to cherry pick and declare that's all that God "really" meant.

SK, you tried to play that "but only Christians are good and donate to good causes".  That failed and Emily is calling you on it. 

[SERPENT KILLA]

No one is.  However, the problem as I see it is that Christians claim to have some magical knowledge and then don't even *try* to follow it.

I don't remember saying it. And I try.

Your bible can be quite specific on what it takes to get into heaven.  I have yet to see any Christians follow those directions; they always opt for the easiest, simplest version to cherry pick and declare that's all that God "really" meant.

Let me ask you, what does it take to go to heaven?

SK, you tried to play that "but only Christians are good and donate to good causes".  That failed and Emily is calling you on it.

Again, I don't remember saying it.

[velkyn]

I don't remember saying it. And I try.

You didn't say it, you beleive you do. it's part and parcel of religion.  I was a Christian so I know.  And how do you try, SK?  The bible says that you should abandon all worldly possessions and follow Jesus, depending on God to support you.   Do you do this? 

Let me ask you, what does it take to go to heaven?

Well, the bible has several ways. 

1.  Believing that JC is one's savior (John 3)
2. By works (Matthew 25)
3. By god's grace, and works and belief have nothing to do with it. (Matthew 13, Romans 9)
4. For women, by childbirth alone.  (1 Timothy 2)
5. by giving all worldly possessions away (see above)(Matthew 19, Matthew 6)
6. Being Jewish and a virgin/eunuch, they go to heaven, everyone else is limited to the "New Jerusalem" (Revelation)
7. Some Christians interpret scripture that one needs to be officially baptized to get to heaven (my great grandmother snuck my mother to her church (Roman Catholic) to make sure she was baptized in the "right" religion so she would go to heaven)
8. Some Christians claim you must be "born again" though they differ on what that means.  Again, this is based on their interpretation of the Bible.

I'm sure that there are some I'm forgetting.

So, seeing this, what is your answer on what does it take to go to heaven? 

Again, I don't remember saying it.

  Unfortunately for you, this is a written medium.   You said

I know what my church does and how my church helps our community and the poor.
I don't have to tell you the truth, but at the same time I don't want to lie to you either.  I make $9.50/hr at a restaurant and I give one tenth of all my income. because I know how it is being spent.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
Hopefully you don't spend all your money for yourself and spend the rest of it on some science book written by some atheist. When childrend are dying every 5 seconds.

This is the usual assumption by a Christian that they and only they do anything "good".   If you thought that atheists, and those who are not Christians did this as much as Christians did, it is very unlikely that you would have asked this question at all and even more unlikely in this way.   You may have not said my exact paraphrase but I find it safe to believe that you did mean this in the way I indicated.  But I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.  Did you mean what you said in the way I took it, that you think only Christians donate to charities and that you used an appeal to emotion in an attempt to make atheists look less than charitable to support your assumption?  If not, then I apologize.   If you did, admit it and we’ll be happy to educate you that you are mistaken.

[SERPENT KILLA]

Serpent Killa, please give us a logical reason for why you believe in God. If you use the Bible as your reason, be prepared to acknowledge that you are using circular reasoning (the Bible is true because it is God's Word and God is real because the Bible says so....), which is illogical.

No logical reason.

What logical reason do you have to love someone? (your child, husband, family)

[Zankuu]

Serpent Killa, please give us a logical reason for why you believe in God. If you use the Bible as your reason, be prepared to acknowledge that you are using circular reasoning (the Bible is true because it is God's Word and God is real because the Bible says so....), which is illogical.

No logical reason.

What logical reason do you have to love someone? (your child, husband, family)

Love is an emotion, and isn't something that falls under the category of reason. But if I had to logically think about why I would want to love: Love brings me pleasure, so I ought to love if I want to experience that pleasure.

[Hatter23]

Serpent Killa, please give us a logical reason for why you believe in God. If you use the Bible as your reason, be prepared to acknowledge that you are using circular reasoning (the Bible is true because it is God's Word and God is real because the Bible says so....), which is illogical.

No logical reason.

What logical reason do you have to love someone? (your child, husband, family)

An emotion is not logical. It is a feeling, however said feeling is reinforced or overturned by experience.

So it isn't logical to have joy, love, hate, and so forth. None the less, it is based on real hands on experience even if it might be plain old genetic memory.

I acknowlege I am not using reason...but I am able to see, smell, feel the things that cause me emotion.


That is vastly different from altering ones behavior, expending resources, passing laws, even supporting wars based on what is in the Harry Potter books.

[curiousgirl]

Serpent Killa, please give us a logical reason for why you believe in God. If you use the Bible as your reason, be prepared to acknowledge that you are using circular reasoning (the Bible is true because it is God's Word and God is real because the Bible says so....), which is illogical.

No logical reason.

What logical reason do you have to love someone? (your child, husband, family)

Your question is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with your argument that God exists. At this point, you are using a red herring because you have no logical reason, as you stated above. That does not work.

Also, my family actually exists, as opposed to God, unless you want to argue for solipsism, in which case you need to use logic, which you have failed to do so far.

[velkyn]

Serpent Killa, please give us a logical reason for why you believe in God. If you use the Bible as your reason, be prepared to acknowledge that you are using circular reasoning (the Bible is true because it is God's Word and God is real because the Bible says so....), which is illogical.

No logical reason.

What logical reason do you have to love someone? (your child, husband, family)

How do you "love" this being?  And what evidence do you have that this being loves you (or exists at all), as opposed to any other deity that humans worship and claim to "love"?

Do you think the deity you love would be different if you were born into another culture?  Would this make that deity seem as real as the one you were born into?   

I love my husband for the fact that he loves me back and demonstrates it.   As others have noted, your god has nothing to support its existence other than a book of stories that believers cannot agree the meaning of. 

[screwtape]

No logical reason.

What logical reason do you have to love someone? (your child, husband, family)

That's not really apples to apples, is it?  The question is about the basis for belief.  For most beliefs you have, you have logical reasons for them.  Naturally.  You live in the era after the Enlightenment.  People understand we need good reason to believe things.   Your beliefs may not all be based on correct facts or good assumptions, but at their core is logic and reason.

You believe your car runs on gasoline because you have observed it.  You may have run out of gas or put the wrong fuel in your tank and learned the hard way.  Logical.  You believe the sun will rise tomorrow appriximately 24 hours[1] from when it did today.  You believe it because you have seen it over and over.  You have observed the consistency and concluded it.  Logical.

This is all about facts.  Emotion has no place in that calculation.  You do not believe the sun is made of helium and hydrogen because to believe otherwise depresses you.  You do not believe eating rotten meat will make you sick because the thought of it brings you joy.  To respond to a question about the existence of gods with a question about emotions is to make a categorical error.

And anyway, I disagree.  You have very logical - or at least rational - reasons to love someone.  I love my wife because she is pretty, she treats me nicely, her personality is a good fit with mine.  Sure, there is a certain je ne sais quoi in addition to all that[2].  But it is not as if my love for her is completely illogical or irrational.  My love for Mrs Screwtape is far more logical, far more reasonable than your belief in a deity you cannot see, hear, or otherwise detect, which you only know of through other people or iron age writings.

So, how about trying that question again?  Why should you, I or anyone else believe in a god?

1.	a little less in the northern hemisphere these days
2.	but who is to say that could not happen for me with other women?

[WiccaBillinCo]

Pain is good though?? Seriously? I have neuropathy and I can personally attest that pain sucks. 

[WiccaBillinCo]

I know what my church does and how my church helps our community and the poor.
I don't have to tell you the truth, but at the same time I don't want to lie to you either.  I make $9.50/hr at a restaurant and I give one tenth of all my income. because I know how it is being spent.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
Hopefully you don't spend all your money for yourself and spend the rest of it on some science book written by some atheist. When childrend are dying every 5 seconds.
[/quote]

Simple questions. Why does an all loving god let a child (innocent) die every 5 seconds? How can the christain god not hear the suffering of his people? Why do I give my children money, when I do not have it, (when I as a "sinful" being can not know how much more the christian god loves his children), will not allow my children to suffer when I have the means to stop it. Why does he even allow it? Funny, when ever I ask my christain friends questions like this, I always get the "You can;'t know the mind of god" or some silly answer along these lines. If god can do anything, why does he need my money? The catholic church is one of the richest organizations on earth, why does the pope need a golden hat? Why is that wealth not distributed to the dieing children? Why does any church need an expensive building that is only used 2 or 3 days a week?
Just wondering

[Growth2012]

I dont know but it does say in the old testament that when the isrealities were being punish through plunder, disease, famine, and exile, I remember reading in which it said when the isrealites come out of this which the wickedness would be purified out of them through this,  God says the humble and the lame will be the rermanet.God Cares about people who have hard lives, its the arrogant and wicked he hates.   

[Growth2012]

I have a question? Why was Enoch transfered ( this has happen with Elijah the prophet), but why was Enoch transfered before the law and holy covenant of Abraham? What makes a Godly man I ask?

[Babdah]

I have a question? Why was Enoch transfered ( this has happen with Elijah the prophet), but why was Enoch transfered before the law and holy covenant of Abraham? What makes a Godly man I ask?

some one that does not think for him self but act as the bible tells him to do.

[Alzael]

I have a question? Why was Enoch transfered ( this has happen with Elijah the prophet), but why was Enoch transfered before the law and holy covenant of Abraham? What makes a Godly man I ask?

some one that does not think for him self but act as the bible tells him to do.

So in other words raping women, smashing babies heads on rocks, hating gays, and keeping other human beings as slaves, gotcha.

Praise the Lord!

[Growth2012]

God says Humility before Honor, and Pride before destruction. If your humble you will make it and humbleness being Godly. Bob Marley was right "My religion is love. Selfishness is the root of satan. Becuase if your unselfish that is God. Masculinity and feminisity. Meaning we are the femine aspect of God meaning the physical representation of God himself but only a piece of him. The disciples asked where is heaven, jesus said here on earth. impatiality brings ruin, togetherness brings everything you want.

[curiousgirl]

Growth, are you preaching? It certainly seems that way. Go read the forum rules. Then come back and form a logical argument.

[Alzael]

God says Humility before Honor, and Pride before destruction. If your humble you will make it and humbleness being Godly. Bob Marley was right "My religion is love. Selfishness is the root of satan. Becuase if your unselfish that is God. Masculinity and feminisity. Meaning we are the femine aspect of God meaning the physical representation of God himself but only a piece of him. The disciples asked where is heaven, jesus said here on earth. impatiality brings ruin, togetherness brings everything you want.

You forgot the part in Ezekiel where he makes the parents and children of Jerusalem kill and eat each other in your sermon. Now more officially:

Preaching is against the forum rules. If you have something germaine to the discussion to say, go ahead. Mindless preaching however does nothing to further conversation.