Author Topic: Theists,can you define heaven?  (Read 4229 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #145 on: September 26, 2011, 10:31:53 AM »
No Man knows what heaven is like...but through the readings of the bible we can reveal that it is a wonderful place with pearly gates and streets paved with gold where there is no pain no weeping no getting tired...just eternal happiness...and it kind of makes you wonder why after hearing about this wonderful kingdom why atheist or anyone who rejects Christianity would say no to even a slight chance of this  great place. especially when people like me strongly guarantee that it is real

People like you who guarantee something is real with no evidence?  Well, I strongly guarantee that the Egyptian afterlife is real.  You will have your heart weighed against the feather of Ma'at and you will be living with Osiris in his lush and wonderful kingdom.  Now, I suspect that you don't believe me at all.  So, why indeed should I believe your childish fairy story?

However, considering that your definition isn't of heaven but the kingdom of heaven on a remade earth, it is easy to see that like so many Christians you haven't read your bible or cared to actually know what it really says.  All I can see is that Christians are greedy and scared.  Why cares about gold or pearly gates?  Why is this city the wet dream of someone who only cares about earthly treasures?  Rather sad and amusing. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6510
  • Darwins +849/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #146 on: September 26, 2011, 10:35:58 AM »
No Man knows what heaven is like...but through the readings of the bible we can reveal that it is a wonderful place with pearly gates and streets paved with gold where there is no pain no weeping no getting tired...just eternal happiness...and it kind of makes you wonder why after hearing about this wonderful kingdom why atheist or anyone who rejects Christianity would say no to even a slight chance of this  great place. especially when people like me strongly guarantee that it is real

What is the point of life on earth again? Why don't Christians try to die as fast as possible and go right on to heaven? Why cling to life in this vale of tears? Christians should be volunteering to clean up contaminated nuclear sites in Kazahkstan, dig out land mines in Laos and other important risky activities. Help out the rest of us and then go to heaven already!
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Samuelxcs

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 669
  • Darwins +6/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • The oldest and strongest emotion of humans is fear
    • Fallen Angels
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #147 on: September 26, 2011, 11:03:33 AM »
Heaven is a place where there is eternal happiness, however, because of the sudden presence of God you can physically do nothing but worship him. This is due to the fact that you can think of nothing else to do, however this is very vague in the Bible so it can't be described in a clear manner by any biblical scholar.

So while on Earth we have free will in heaven we don't? That sucks. Thank god[1] I'm an atheist :D
 1. Pun definitely intended

We would be like machines in Heaven? No wonder Lucifer rebelled.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
-Thomas Szasz

Offline RaymondKHessel

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1914
  • Darwins +73/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Born with insight, and a raised fist.
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #148 on: September 26, 2011, 01:50:25 PM »
No Man knows what heaven is like...but through the readings of the bible we can reveal that it is a wonderful place with pearly gates and streets paved with gold where there is no pain no weeping no getting tired...just eternal happiness...and it kind of makes you wonder why after hearing about this wonderful kingdom why atheist or anyone who rejects Christianity would say no to even a slight chance of this  great place. especially when people like me strongly guarantee that it is real

Okay first, you and I both know you ripped that s**t off Fievel Goes West. But it's streets paved with CHEESE, not gold. And there are no cats in America. So major points deducted there right off rip.

But for the sake of arguement, let's just pretend your holy book DIDN'T shamelessly plagarize the heatfelt life story of some poor little immigrant field mouse and assume this is actually an original idea.

May I say, I find your deity's choices in decorating to be not a little tacky, and demonstrative of an exceptionally poor taste in exterior design. Pearl gates? Gold streets? WTF, are you serious? Is your god a famous rapper? Are you on some kind of "Pimp My Eternity" kick?  S**t, why stop there? How about platinum manhole covers? How about some diamond-encrusted goblets for when we're all feasting on Jesus blood? And everybody gets their name spelled out on them, in Rubies and Sapphires!

Who the flying f**k would pave streets with GOLD? What kind of retard city planner does that s**t? Do you know how malleable GOLD is? Especially when it's heated up, as it surely would be considering heaven's proximity to the sun!?

Those streets would be scratched to hell in a month! Why does this "heaven" place even HAVE streets? Are there automobiles in Heaven? They'd better be emission free. Or am I to understand everybody simply WALKS these streets like they're straight outta Compton? Better not be no got damn walking I'll tell you what cuz I was told we all get these big ass freakin' WINGS and get to flap around like BATS n' s**t and I gotta admit, that sounds fuckin' rightous.

But why, for the love of f**k, would Heaven need *gates*? It's got security problems!? That's not very comforting. Are there prowlers creepin' about at night? What kind of half-assed deity needs GATES to protect their property!!??

Unless... What if the gates are there... To keep people *IN*!!!??? <GASP> :o

Anyway, I digest. I have a better place in mind. Check it out, it's called Rayopolis. Clean drugs, beautiful women, waterslides and beachfront housing as far as the eye can see. And all you gotta do to get there is strangle a dolphin to death with your bare hands. So what are you waiting for, rube? Get on it! Why would you ever say no to even a slight chance of this great place? It's a hell of a lot more fun than YOUR place at any rate. And not nearly so full of squares and tight-asses.

No, I'm sorry. I'll stop mocking. For real. Your magical land of gumdrop houses and cotton candy mountains sounds fantastic. Beam me up. We gotta domesticate a unicorn first, right? Wait, no, my bad, they don't have wings... We need us a Pegasus. Right. Or maybe we could just toss a lasso around the dreams of a child or something and let them carry us as they waft up into the lollipop kingdom?

I apologize. Sincerely. I said I'd stop, so I should stop. Because I actually do understand the potential conundrums that Christian Heaven has, particular involving the infamous butthole paradox that we've all heard about... and I know it can make people uncomfortable to talk about it, so I definitely won't ask what happens to your butthole when you go to heaven. I'm sure you've been asked far too many times whether or not you get, like, a little ghostly vestigal butthole that doesn't really do anything, or what?  I guess I just assume that somebody just kind of stitches them up n' stuff since we'll never use them again. But I wouldn't presume to speculate. Not REALLY. I mean, I guess maybe there's like this assembly line, right? ...And as it takes you past the giant gaudy ass ebony & ivory gates, St. Peter (ha!) just stands there reattaching foreskins and stitching up buttholes and va jay jays and various urethri (urethras?) as they go by on their way to

Holy talking donkey balls dude. You're a grown ass man. You should be fucking embarassed that you actually believe this stuff, let ALONE go spreading it around. If I was your mama, you can bet your dollars to donuts that I'd slap the got damn taste out yer mouf and hopefully some sense into your fool head, and tell you, lovingly, get a GRIP sonny boy. There's some serious s**t going on in the world and here you're spending all your time staring into your belly button and dreaming about some dopey ass rainbow city in the sky with infrastructure made out of precious metals.

Holy s**t.

This thread has reeeeally brought out the weird in people.  :-\
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 03:23:19 PM by RaymondKHessel »
Born with insight, and a raised fist.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6510
  • Darwins +849/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #149 on: September 26, 2011, 03:09:27 PM »
Ray-Ray, I want a heaven of my very own, too:
Less drugs and easy women, more mystery books on tape.
Tom Selleck and Denzel Washington clad only in loincloths,  wait on me hand and foot, giving me seductive looks.
Robert Downey Jr. finds me a fascinating conversationalist and hangs on my every word.
Pink cleans my house and does the lawn while singing.
Oprah gives me a scalp massage and rubs my feet while telling interesting anecdotes.
Stephen Hawking thinks I am smart.
Adorable mixed breed rescue puppies frolic at my feet. 
I have the closet of clothes from the Princess Diaries movie and Harry Potter's magic wand.
Terry Pratchett writes stories just for me.
I consume pepperoni pizza, cake and ice cream like one of those Japanese food eating contest champions, but maintain a body like Beyonce.
Cirque de Soleil performs every night in my living room.
I have heated floors.


With all that, who needs gates made of old necklaces or metal streets that burn your feet?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Historicity

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2350
  • Darwins +80/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • (Rama, avatar of Vishnu)
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #150 on: September 26, 2011, 05:08:28 PM »
Are you on some kind of "Pimp My Eternity" kick? 

A few years ago here in Florida I saw bumper stickers and, I think, "real estate" signs that said, "PIMP MY LIFE".  Reading the fine print it turned out to be some evangelism campaign aimed at teenagers.

Raymond, you have unwittingly run into Poe's Law.  You attempted a satire on evangelism and reproduced (rather closely) real evangelism.



Offline Emily

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5664
  • Darwins +49/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #151 on: September 26, 2011, 09:59:19 PM »
but through the readings of the bible we can reveal that it is a wonderful place with pearly gates and streets paved with gold where there is no pain no weeping no getting tired...

and, and don't forget it's dimentions (according to my bible)

Revelation 21:16-18
King James Version (KJV)
 16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

according to the footnotes of my bible 12,000 furlongs is 1400 miles (this is under the chapter of New Jerusalem.).  That is heaven's dimensions. 1400 cubic miles. I have heard christians claim this is isn't really heaven. but then again, Revelations goes on to say later in that chapter;

 24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

So that's heaven. Not a heck of a lot of elbow space, especially considering all the Truth Christians that are occupying it. So yeah, if you aren't a fan of elbow room and are a fan of being packed into a place forever hearing angels sing "Hallelujah" then yeah, this might be the right place for you, but it doesn't sound ideal to me.

Not to mention it's lined with gold and pearls. I mean, seriously. All the tithing christians did went to pearl gates and gold roads, when god could be using that money for something more useful like blessing the poor saps who have never even had a chance of hearing about this "wonderful" place? 

Quote
and it kind of makes you wonder why after hearing about this wonderful kingdom why atheist or anyone who rejects Christianity would say no to even a slight chance of this  great place.

Great place? Forever praising god is great? That's not a great place. It's a place of tyrannical worship.[1] Not such a great place. Christians spend their lives worshiping this guy in the realm of free will but in the realm where there is no free will (Heaven)[2] there is nothing but eternal worship of the very sadistic and egotistical monster that brought them there, who probably had mommy issues and wants nothing more than to have his ego stroked because he's probably too insecure with his own existence because use atheists have made him become aware of the atrocities hes  he has done . Hardly a great place.and I guess our freewill gets thrown out the window once we die and make it to heaven. But hey, you're right. Lets assume this is a great place. There are millions of people who will never even have a chance of even so much hearing this great place uttered in their ears. but that's OK with god because he's too busy building a city with streets of pure gold, almost like glass[3] for those who can actually afford to spend their eternity in heaven.

Here's why we don't want a chance at such a great place: Atheists like to take chances. We are on the side of there is no heaven, and there is no book of life for our names to be in. The only source of this wonderful place is through the LSD induced dream of John. Don't get me wrong. I've done acid but I have never seen such a thing like that. John was having one hell of a trip that night. I'm jealous.



 1. Revelations 22:3
 2. Revelations 21:27
 3. Revelations 21:21
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline kardula

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #152 on: September 27, 2011, 05:15:16 AM »
yes, heaven is being with god.

Offline Whateverman

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1353
  • Darwins +6/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • Skeptical Minds & Rational Thinkers
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #153 on: September 27, 2011, 07:51:22 AM »
yes, heaven is being with god.

Ultimately, I think this is probably the most honest answer a Christian (or any Abrahamic theist) could give.  This life is spent seeking and yearning for God, and Heaven is the realization of having found Him.

That's part of the reason Heaven is so poorly described.
- SMRT Admin

Compared to this thread, retarded midget wrestling for food stamps is the pinnacle of human morality.
-- Ambassador Pony

Offline gonegolfing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1224
  • Darwins +23/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • God ?...Don't even get me started !
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #154 on: September 27, 2011, 08:39:16 AM »
yes, heaven is being with god.

Ultimately, I think this is probably the most honest answer a Christian (or any Abrahamic theist) could give.  This life is spent seeking and yearning for God, and Heaven is the realization of having found Him.

That's part of the reason Heaven is so poorly described.

I agree with this.

From what I've read from our resident theist OCG:-- the main purpose for his faith, is his belief that eventually he will be in the presence of god and his family members again.

It's a shame for them though that there is no evidence whatsoever to take it from a belief to a fact.

The bizarre and complex problems with the idea of heaven is something that theists allow to just fly over their heads. Their failure to scrutinize the idea allows a one decision easy access from this world to the next. No muss no fuss. Believe in jeebus and you're in !! Family time again !! Woot! Woot! I get to meet the big guy himself !! Not only that, god wants me to worship him at his feet day and night for ever !!  ;D...........Wait a minute  :o..........hmmmm :?..........seriously?  :'(
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10933
  • Darwins +284/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #155 on: September 27, 2011, 08:43:52 AM »
yes, heaven is being with god.

Supposedly God is omnipresent, right? How is this any different from every single day?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12209
  • Darwins +658/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #156 on: September 27, 2011, 08:50:37 AM »
yes, heaven is being with god.

to piggyback on Blaziken, is hell being apart from god? 
As a not-dead atheist who cannot find god anywhere, am I apart from god?  That is, am I in hell? 


If so, I think hell is pretty flipping great.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Whateverman

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1353
  • Darwins +6/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • Skeptical Minds & Rational Thinkers
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #157 on: September 27, 2011, 09:25:43 AM »
to piggyback on Blaziken, is hell being apart from god?
Technically, the Baha'is don't believe in the Abrahamic Hell, but I believe they'd generally agree with your idea, Screwtape.

As a not-dead atheist who cannot find god anywhere, am I apart from god?  That is, am I in hell?
No (re. not according to Bahai's or any Abrahamic religion I'm aware of)

Honestly, your question is one I've asked back when I was religious, and it's one that occasionally crosses my mind today.  I always end up answering "no", because I see no holy/religious/spiritual person in a better or worse condition than I am simply because of their beliefs.  There may be people who are happier, but it seems to me they're just as likely to be atheists as theists...
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 09:30:21 AM by Whateverman »
- SMRT Admin

Compared to this thread, retarded midget wrestling for food stamps is the pinnacle of human morality.
-- Ambassador Pony

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12209
  • Darwins +658/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #158 on: September 27, 2011, 11:55:15 AM »
Is kardula Baha'i?  Did I miss that?

I've always had a problem with the definition of heaven as "being with god" and of hell as "being apart from god".  I definitely do not feel as though I were with god.  But I also do not feel like I am in hell...
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Whateverman

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1353
  • Darwins +6/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • Skeptical Minds & Rational Thinkers
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #159 on: September 27, 2011, 12:36:23 PM »
Is kardula Baha'i?  Did I miss that?
No, I didn't mean to imply that.  I was just commenting on the more general aspects of your questions.  They're ones I've asked myself in the past, both when I was a Baha'i myself and after I deconverted.
- SMRT Admin

Compared to this thread, retarded midget wrestling for food stamps is the pinnacle of human morality.
-- Ambassador Pony

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +408/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #160 on: September 28, 2011, 01:40:06 AM »
Revelation 21
King James Version (KJV)
 24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

I just took a close look at those two lines.  The first part - the nations walk "in the light of it" - sounds rather like Yahwe's heavenly citadel sits in the middle of a great plain, and all the plebs get to stand outside and marvel.

But, if you are a king, you get to actually go into the citadel...bringing all your kingly glory and honour with you.

So it sounds like (a) whatever station you acheive on earth, THAT is what you carry with you for eternity (so Bad Deal for all the poor white trash Christians), and (b) Yahweh doesn't want to hang with the hoi-polloi, he wants to be 'illin with the rich and famous and powerful.

Yahweh: the ultimate fanboy and snob.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline OldChurchGuy

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1520
  • Darwins +101/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • One of those theists who enjoys exchanging ideas
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #161 on: September 28, 2011, 05:52:40 AM »
but through the readings of the bible we can reveal that it is a wonderful place with pearly gates and streets paved with gold where there is no pain no weeping no getting tired...

and, and don't forget it's dimentions (according to my bible)

Revelation 21:16-18
King James Version (KJV)
 16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

according to the footnotes of my bible 12,000 furlongs is 1400 miles (this is under the chapter of New Jerusalem.).  That is heaven's dimensions. 1400 cubic miles. I have heard christians claim this is isn't really heaven. but then again, Revelations goes on to say later in that chapter;

 24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

So that's heaven. Not a heck of a lot of elbow space, especially considering all the Truth Christians that are occupying it. So yeah, if you aren't a fan of elbow room and are a fan of being packed into a place forever hearing angels sing "Hallelujah" then yeah, this might be the right place for you, but it doesn't sound ideal to me.

Not to mention it's lined with gold and pearls. I mean, seriously. All the tithing christians did went to pearl gates and gold roads, when god could be using that money for something more useful like blessing the poor saps who have never even had a chance of hearing about this "wonderful" place? 

Quote
and it kind of makes you wonder why after hearing about this wonderful kingdom why atheist or anyone who rejects Christianity would say no to even a slight chance of this  great place.

Great place? Forever praising god is great? That's not a great place. It's a place of tyrannical worship.[1] Not such a great place. Christians spend their lives worshiping this guy in the realm of free will but in the realm where there is no free will (Heaven)[2] there is nothing but eternal worship of the very sadistic and egotistical monster that brought them there, who probably had mommy issues and wants nothing more than to have his ego stroked because he's probably too insecure with his own existence because use atheists have made him become aware of the atrocities hes  he has done . Hardly a great place.and I guess our freewill gets thrown out the window once we die and make it to heaven. But hey, you're right. Lets assume this is a great place. There are millions of people who will never even have a chance of even so much hearing this great place uttered in their ears. but that's OK with god because he's too busy building a city with streets of pure gold, almost like glass[3] for those who can actually afford to spend their eternity in heaven.

Here's why we don't want a chance at such a great place: Atheists like to take chances. We are on the side of there is no heaven, and there is no book of life for our names to be in. The only source of this wonderful place is through the LSD induced dream of John. Don't get me wrong. I've done acid but I have never seen such a thing like that. John was having one hell of a trip that night. I'm jealous.
 1. Revelations 22:3
 2. Revelations 21:27
 3. Revelations 21:21

A question of math clarification.  I had understood the 1,400 miles to be one side.  Thus, the cubic area would be 1,400 X 1,400 X 1,400 = 2,744,000,000.  Am I missing something? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +408/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #162 on: September 28, 2011, 06:32:13 AM »
A question of math clarification.  I had understood the 1,400 miles to be one side.  Thus, the cubic area would be 1,400 X 1,400 X 1,400 = 2,744,000,000.  Am I missing something? 

Only relevant though if there are skyscrapers rising 1400 miles - bit vertigo-inducing for me!  Though if I had wings, perhaps not an issue.  I'd say that length x breadth for just under 2 million square miles is reasonable.  For reference, that's about 2/3rds the size of Australia.

That IS pretty big for a city.  Of course, it all depends on the measurement being accurate, but "pretty damn big" seems fair enough. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline gonegolfing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1224
  • Darwins +23/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • God ?...Don't even get me started !
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #163 on: September 28, 2011, 08:28:07 AM »

Quote
A question of math clarification.  I had understood the 1,400 miles to be one side.  Thus, the cubic area would be 1,400 X 1,400 X 1,400 = 2,744,000,000.  Am I missing something? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Dude !! How's it going ?  ;D

Nope you're not missing something ! Bang on ! The guy that gave those dimensions was definitely being prophetic, but he messed up what he was describing!......... He was actually describing a gigantic Borg ship ! Yes that's right an extraterrestrial Borg city ! The evidence is available on several Star Trek episodes for everyone to see!! Star Trek is true man!!  This ancient seer was seeing a future space ship and didn't even know it !!  ;D

Although he called the Borg ship right, it's a good thing that the rest of the story by the supposed John boy is so messed up that it's beyond believability  :) .....Besides, I could never believe a story in which a supposed loving and merciful god rewards a warrior group with a special city for being the victors of a global blood bath, which just happens to be lead by this deity's own son no less....... It's just too damn savage and messy for a loving god to be involved in !   ;D





 

"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #164 on: September 28, 2011, 12:04:22 PM »
yes, heaven is being with god.

and how does one know if one is "with God"? 

From what I can see, the bible has a very concrete "place" in mind when talking about heaven and New Jerusalem.   I find a vague claim of "haven is being with god" to be the usual attempts to make the bible more mystical sounding rather than the bronze/iron age myth it is with the attendant defined locations of heaven/fields of Elysium/Hades/hell, etc etc. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline OldChurchGuy

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1520
  • Darwins +101/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • One of those theists who enjoys exchanging ideas
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #165 on: September 29, 2011, 08:01:45 PM »

Quote
A question of math clarification.  I had understood the 1,400 miles to be one side.  Thus, the cubic area would be 1,400 X 1,400 X 1,400 = 2,744,000,000.  Am I missing something? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Dude !! How's it going ?  ;D

Nope you're not missing something ! Bang on ! The guy that gave those dimensions was definitely being prophetic, but he messed up what he was describing!......... He was actually describing a gigantic Borg ship ! Yes that's right an extraterrestrial Borg city ! The evidence is available on several Star Trek episodes for everyone to see!! Star Trek is true man!!  This ancient seer was seeing a future space ship and didn't even know it !!  ;D

Although he called the Borg ship right, it's a good thing that the rest of the story by the supposed John boy is so messed up that it's beyond believability  :) .....Besides, I could never believe a story in which a supposed loving and merciful god rewards a warrior group with a special city for being the victors of a global blood bath, which just happens to be lead by this deity's own son no less....... It's just too damn savage and messy for a loving god to be involved in !   ;D



I remember watching those episodes when they were new waaaaaaay back in the previous century and wondering if Revelation inspired the design. 

An interesting point of view is in Tim LaHaye's book "Revelation Unveiled".  LaHaye speculates the saved ones will be in a HUGE building similar to a high rise hotel.  Don't know if I would prefer the upper floors for the view (elevators are probably a real pain) or the lower floors.  But, that's presuming LaHaye is correct.  (LaHaye is the author of the "Left Behind" series of books).

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12209
  • Darwins +658/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Theists,can you define heaven?
« Reply #166 on: September 30, 2011, 07:21:03 AM »
But, that's presuming LaHaye is correct. 

He's not.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.