Why is Satan invisible like God?

[12 Monkeys]

 We all know why God fails to show up,theists tell us it's that free-will thing. Why has Satan stayed as invisible as God. He does not appear on Toast,crying statues,walls or anything. God stays hidden for some strange reason I can't understand,if theists know he is there already there can be no such thing,if he is real and you think he is watching there is NO reason to stay invisible. So why does Satan stay as hidden as God? If he wanted to disrupt God's plan as theist's tell us why is he not in the middle of Times Square making deals for souls? Satan does this in the movies all the time,why not in real life? One of Satan's very reasons is to disrupt the plan of God,why has he failed,like God has also?

[rev45]

Being that Satan isn't omnipresent he has a lot of ground to cover.  I'm always amazed when people try to say "the devil made me do it" or "this is the work of Satan".  You're telling me that of all the people on the planet and of all the places on the planet, Satan chose you to do some bad deed?  What on earth did you do to deserve his attention?  And how are angels and demons able to be invisible to our eyes?  Do they exist in another part of the light spectrum?

[thunderridge]

Of course the obvious answer is because like gods Satan is imaginary.

[Nick]

The whole house of cards comes crashing down when you ask questions like that.  Stop it.

[carlosm7]

On one hand Satin showing would strengthen our faith in god, which is totally not what he wants, on the other hand, it would spoil our faith (this is why they say god remains hidden, isn't it?), which I guess would be helpful to him?

[12 Monkeys]

On one hand Satin showing would strengthen our faith in god, which is totally not what he wants, on the other hand, it would spoil our faith (this is why they say god remains hidden, isn't it?), which I guess would be helpful to him?

Then he has a reason to challenge God ,no? after all prison(hell) was made to hold him. God has failed to imprison Satan so far .make God rise to the challenge.

[12 Monkeys]

Why not force god to finally do something...... To remain hidden like god is lame he has failed to do anything so far

[natlegend]

I guess if Satan turned up one day we'd all have to accept that there's a god as well. And considering the bad rap Satan has copped over the past 2000 years, you'd think *most* people with go with the god option, given a choice.

[Nick]

Do you think Satan gets a parol hearing every now and then?

[jedweber]

This reminds me of one of those lines you often hear from Christians:

"The Devil's greatest trick is convincing people he doesn't exist!"

This conveniently implies that the very lack of evidence for Satan is all the more reason to think he is real!

[Nick]

Yeah, you would think Satan would be all over us atheists since we are easy pickings for His evil work.  Yet nothing.

[Add Homonym]

It's a strange détente, which only works if God keeps silent as well. God is the leader.

If I had Satan's job, the world would be a wasteland, so I can only assume that he cares about us.

[jedweber]

Yeah, you would think Satan would be all over us atheists since we are easy pickings for His evil work.  Yet nothing.

Well, he's got us. We're already doing his work unwittingly. And we help keep his cover by denying he exists. So he goes after his "enemies", getting priests to molest kids, or televangelists to sleep with male prostitutes. That's probably much more fun for him than messing with us would be. 

[Brakeman]

How exactly could Satan make anyone do anything?  By hiding he's showing his impotence.
Some claim he has weird telepathic powers, but if Satan could "get in our heads," that takes away our free will and makes a mockery of the whole "judgment of god thing."

[Nick]

Yeah, you would think Satan would be all over us atheists since we are easy pickings for His evil work.  Yet nothing.

Well, he's got us. We're already doing his work unwittingly. And we help keep his cover by denying he exists. So he goes after his "enemies", getting priests to molest kids, or televangelists to sleep with male prostitutes. That's probably much more fun for him than messing with us would be.

Good point.  I guess atheists are just to boring for any of this supernatural stuff.

[Brakeman]

What does Satan eat? How is he fueled? How does he telepathically influence people? How was he made? What was he made of? Are demons his off-spring? Has Satan ever lain with a virgin and produced any "Sons-of-Satan?"  Has Satan ever been killed on a cross and did he beat heaven in three days?

[jetson]

Satan is all that is not "of God" in the minds of believers.  If you look around, you notice that Satan can be anywhere, do anything, and inspire mere humans to defy God in any way imaginable.  Satan is a get out of jail free card for people who refuse to grow up.

Sometimes, you just have to shake your head and think "WTF?".

 

[jedweber]

How exactly could Satan make anyone do anything? 

I don't know, ask Flip Wilson...

Seriously (as serious as I can be on this silly subject), I think most Christians would say he can't. It's like the old folk tales of "deals with the devil," you have to choose to do what he wants voluntarily.

Those Christians who believe in "possession by the devil" would seem to have a contradictory idea. But I've noticed that they still tend to blame the victim for "letting the devil in" in some way.  (Not that contradictory ideas faze Christians, anyway.)

By hiding he's showing his impotence.

What about what natlegend said earlier? If he popped up and confirmed his existence (and by extension, God's) most people are going to take God's side, because they want to go to heaven.

As an atheist, not only do I fail to believe in God, but I may end up discouraging other people from believing in him, too. (I certainly spend more time criticizing Christianity than Satanism.) So the devil would have nothing to gain by revealing himself to me, he would probably lose by driving me to the other side!

[12 Monkeys]

Ya but where is he and what does he have to lose? According to theists in the end he will be confined to hell anyways,why he is not now against a god who can do anything is another question. God could put him in hell anytime right (God is all powerfull),so why not openly defy  the God who will put you there anyways?

 Does he stay hidden to secure his freedom? If he does then why would he disrupt the lives of individuals? Satan's soul purpose is to disrupt God,can't do that staying hidden.

[dloubet]

Now wait a minute. Wasn't Satan seen in the smoke from the twin towers? Toast is too nice, you only see Satan in nasty evil stuff.

It's funny how Christains that believe in Satan also believe that they are 100% immune to his blandishments. They can be completely fooled by human child molesters in clerical garb, but are completely immune to the efforts of a major supernatural being called the Father of Lies equipped with unknown powers of persuasion.

Maybe the Satan character only appears to be invisible. You would expect the Father of Lies to assume different guises. He could be out in the open, he could be anyone. And you know what I'd do if I was Satan and wanted to cause the most damage I could?

I'd write the bible.

What a bunch of tools.

[albeto]

What does Satan eat? How is he fueled? How does he telepathically influence people? How was he made? What was he made of? Are demons his off-spring? Has Satan ever lain with a virgin and produced any "Sons-of-Satan?"  Has Satan ever been killed on a cross and did he beat heaven in three days?

He's an angel which means he's a spirit-body only and he doesn't get fueled by food because that means he'd have to digest it and no one wants to think about angels having to poop.   Maybe he lives off fear?  He's a very effective CEO by now, what with all those demons and imps and gremlins running around like elves doing all the grunt work like whispering things in our ears and making them sound like our own thoughts.   He can't have had offspring because the early church didn't decide he was a triune being like god so he only gets the spirit part and that would be like Casper the Friendly Ghost trying to mate with Wendy the Good Witch.  Just ain't gonna happen.  Maybe that's why he's so bitter. 

[Nick]

I thought he ate Deviled eggs and Deviled ham.  I could be wrong.

[12 Monkeys]

Now wait a minute. Wasn't Satan seen in the smoke from the twin towers? Toast is too nice, you only see Satan in nasty evil stuff.

It's funny how Christains that believe in Satan also believe that they are 100% immune to his blandishments. They can be completely fooled by human child molesters in clerical garb, but are completely immune to the efforts of a major supernatural being called the Father of Lies equipped with unknown powers of persuasion.

Maybe the Satan character only appears to be invisible. You would expect the Father of Lies to assume different guises. He could be out in the open, he could be anyone. And you know what I'd do if I was Satan and wanted to cause the most damage I could?

I'd write the bible.

What a bunch of tools.

Well Satan needs an army to challenge God,maybe he builds said army with legions of child molesting priests? The priests and politicians pretending to love and worship God have a perfect form of disguise. This could be how Satan's army does it. Get yourself the people who bring God into the picture,all the while they are actually working for Satan. Now I understand,it's perfect get all of God's easilly swayed followers away from God by using God as the very tool BRILLIANT.

[SimpleCaveman]

Hi jedweber,

How are things? I hope all has been well with you.

Well, he's got us. We're already doing his work unwittingly. And we help keep his cover by denying he exists.

I think this is the most revealing statement in the thread.

Of course it all goes back to the underlying question of whether God of the Bible exists or not. And if He does, then what you’re saying would be true, right? Almost prophetic in the same way that Caiaphas’ statement was prophetic. Those who attack the faith would be part of “Satan’s army” (as 12 Monkeys puts it). Those who attack the faith might then be part of “Satan’s army” (as 12 Monkeys puts it).

[JeffPT]

WB, SC.  Long time.  It was good to hear you are doing well, although I was disturbed to hear you were teaching the RCIA.  Deluding yourself is one thing; spreading it to others is just poor form.

To the topic at hand:  If I'm just one of Satan's minions, then I'm really going to be pissed off.  I haven't seen a single paycheck for all the work I'm putting in.  Maybe he's just not paying me because I think he's fake too. 

Unless... unless Satan rewards people with good lives, well paying and satisfying jobs, happy wives, healthy children, a nice house, and good food on the table?  Oh wait, my neighbor is a Christian and he has all that shit too.  He says God is great because God gives him all the same stuff I've got.  Man I really want to thank somebody, but it couldn't be God that gives me all that right?  After all, I don't believe he exists.  In fact, I think believing in God is a disease that should be eradicated from the Earth, so there is no way God is giving me good stuff.  But wait... this guy stopped me at the shoe store the other day and asked me if I had any spare change on me.  I gave him what I had and he said "God bless you".  I can't help but wonder... He believes in God, and he probably doesn't have any of the shit I do.  It almost seems that there's no way to tell who was being blessed by god and who was blessed by Satan. 

Hmm, maybe it's just all bullshit. Maybe God and Satan are fake, and if you work for it, life is what you make of it.  Yeah, that makes the most sense.

I don't know though.  Is there a grievance department in hell where I can appeal for back pay? 

[12 Monkeys]

Jeff,Good life and good wages comes from hard work(which explains why I am a wage slave) as you have stated. How do you explain the priests and politicians?

 Then there is the devouted Christian who works 3 jobs to make ends meet,never gets ahead barley breaks even and then watches the Devil bankers and politicians take his retirment and social security away. What if anything can God or Satan do for this guy to make his life better? God sure has done nothing for him....but his reward is coming  LOL

[curiousgirl]

Why Satan is invisible like God: Occam's razor.....God and Satan don't exist. Not only are they equally invisible, they're equally non-existent! 

[12 Monkeys]

Why Satan is invisible like God: Occam's razor.....God and Satan don't exist. Not only are they equally invisible, they're equally non-existent! 

You and I know that ......I am asking 33% of the world WTF the problem is

[jedweber]

Hi jedweber,

How are things? I hope all has been well with you.

Well, he's got us. We're already doing his work unwittingly. And we help keep his cover by denying he exists.

I think this is the most revealing statement in the thread.

Of course it all goes back to the underlying question of whether God of the Bible exists or not. And if He does, then what you’re saying would be true, right? Almost prophetic in the same way that Caiaphas’ statement was prophetic. Those who attack the faith would be part of “Satan’s army” (as 12 Monkeys puts it). Those who attack the faith might then be part of “Satan’s army” (as 12 Monkeys puts it).

Hi SC, I hope you're well, too.

I know you realize that I was being tongue-in-cheek. I was commenting on the paradigm under which evidence for Satan would be evidence for Satan, while a lack of evidence for Satan would also be evidence for Satan. The believer just can't lose there.

Even if God were real, it doesn't follow that Satan exists as a personal being. Christians don't all seem to be on the same page as far as what "he" is or how "he" operates. And much of the lore about Satan is extra-biblical and has evolved over time.

But if he did exist, I don't really think I'm part of his "army". I'd say I live pretty ethically most of the time. I'd also say most of my "attacks" (such as they are) are not on faith per se, but on those who misuse it and abuse it. Clergymen who exploit others (sexually, financially, psychologically, etc.), church officials who cover for them, zealots who advocate violence, those who use religion to sow divisiveness among their fellow humans - I think those people are doing "Satan's" work much more effectively than I ever could.

If I'm guilty of anything, it's in using my faculty of reason (which a Christian would say is God-given) and following it where it leads me: to conclude that there's insufficient evidence for God. If I'm wrong, so be it, but at least I went about it sincerely.