Author Topic: Homophobia  (Read 2666 times)

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Offline One Above All

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2011, 11:22:15 AM »
Starting with boys, the rambunciousness that was always expected is now more than ever looked at as promblematic.

Behavior which is problematic is now being treated as such? That's awful! /sarcasm

More and more boys are being druged with meds like methylphenidate, (aka ritalin), to tone down that which in many cases is natural for boys.

See above. Although jumping straight to medication is retarded, as a last resort, as long as it's not harmful, it's alright

Jumping to manhood, ever notice how non athletic, non celebrity men are depicted commercially? Men are typically depicted as bumbling, studipd, can't get rights who are totally lost without some female guidance. Fathers cannot handle the home or the kids, so when mom's away, all hell breaks loose because the man is incapable. All men are good for is grunting, watching a game, and occasionally may be rewarded with a sexual treat if they are good widdle boys. 

Men being depicted negatively isn't "wussification" by ANY possible meaning of the term. It's just men being depicted negatively, like atheists. Nothing else
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2011, 11:32:46 AM »
Starting with boys, the rambunciousness that was always expected is now more than ever looked at as promblematic. More and more boys are being druged with meds like methylphenidate, (aka ritalin), to tone down that which in many cases is natural for boys.

So rambunciosness is manly and something you approve of?

I do not see simple rambunciousness being treated with ritalin.  You may think things like ADHD are overblown, but I would disagree.

I have a step brother who has severe ADHD.  When he was a kid, they'd take him off the ritalin for the summer because it acts as an appetite supressant and they wanted him to eat normally so he would not be stunted.  He was totally flaked out all summer.  If not for ritalin, he would have probably been put in special ed class.  Instead, he consistently tested in the 97 percentile.  His is not a problem of rambunciousness.  It is a problem of brain function.

He still has problems with it at age 27, but he stopped taking the drug.  He runs out of the house in winter without shoes or a coat.  It does not occur to him to put them on because he cannot focus.  He  loses his car keys and house keys on a weekly basis.  I suspect he has lost at least one job because of his condition.

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Jumping to manhood, ever notice how non athletic, non celebrity men are depicted commercially? Men are typically depicted as bumbling, studipd, can't get rights who are totally lost without some female guidance. Fathers cannot handle the home or the kids, so when mom's away, all hell breaks loose because the man is incapable. All men are good for is grunting, watching a game, and occasionally may be rewarded with a sexual treat if they are good widdle boys.

You seem to be using sit-coms as your justification.  I don't think anyone considers them to be role models.

You might want to think this through a little more.


edit - i'm really screwing up quotes lately.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 12:57:03 PM by screwtape »
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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2011, 11:52:40 AM »
I actually completely understand where you're coming from, TOT. And I think you've raised several interesting points.

So, you know. You're not alone.

The bumbling, helpless, usually doughy-around-the-midsection, whiney Beta Minus males are taking over if you believe your television.

Or they're the saucer-eyed college-aged hipster chemo kids.

Gah, like this commercial I've seen 100 times on HULU, about "premature persperation", and the whole commercial is these scrawny, awkward, pussy-looking little college kids, making ugly orgasm faces in front of hot chicks and getting sweat rings under their shirts because they're just SO awkward and nervous  &).. And it ends with some dainty little flower of a guy who looks like a fucking AIDS patient putting on his magic AXE deoderant and then wandering off with a weird-faced Marsha Brady lookin' chick...

When you DO see a *MAN* character on T.V., I.E. one that's supposed to reflect actual masculinity, it's usually some sort of goofy exaggeration, like a viking or a biker. And they're usually half a troglodyte. Like the amount of testosterone correlates directly to the capacity for intelligence.

I'm guess I'm bitching because - and I'm *really* not wanting to sound like a douchebag here - but I'm kind of an uncommonly masculine guy I guess, and I just don't have a trace of "metro" anywhere in me. I'm 6'3, 200 lbs, bearded, mean-lookin', deep voice, aggressive when I want something, I don't shy away from conflict, physical or otherwise... It's just the way I am. And sometimes I'm made to feel like there's something WRONG with me simply because I'm not all soft and squishy and vulnerable.

I dunno. Maybe you'd have to know me to understand what I'm talking about. But I definitely stick out in a limp-wristed, soft-like-yogurt culture, and it makes me decidedly uncomfortable at times.  :(

Don't get me wrong, I've got my warm & fuzzy parts of course... But the only people who ever get to see Sensitive Ray are the ones closest to me. Well, them, and a few complete strangers on the internet! lol

« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 12:25:23 PM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline Nam

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2011, 02:10:00 PM »
Quote from: hypagoga [b
Reply #4[/b]I didn't intend to claim otherwise. However, religion is a bastion of such hatred.

I disagree with this.  Before religion these ideas and/or opinions must have existed with certain people and "religion" was used to spread the message, as to say -- in my opinion.

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This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2011, 02:50:31 PM »
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Where in the sam-fuckin-hill do you get these ideas man ?!  ;D

So then, who or what, is behind this state wide loss of masculinity and male love of lady like fancies, and dare I say, production of homosexuals ?

Do the theists believe we have a conspiracy on our hands ? ...Is it those powerful feminists that are behind this new girly-boy syndrome ?!! ...Is it those tricky atheist scientists who want to stick it to the uncivilized and unscientific bible god for his "stone the fags" command ?!! Perhaps it's those gnarly bearded, goat loving, holy book thumping, misogynistic dessert dwellers putting something in the water to make western civilized men to look all pussy and everything ?!! .......Just what the hell is going on then ?!!!!!  :o  &)

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I get these ideas because I live in a world where I see and experience the wussification of men in general. Calm down, no conspiracy theory is in play and this issue, like it or not crosses the lives of theists and atheists alike. As far as who's behind it, I have no clue nor do I wish to accuse anyone of conspiring against men. It may just be time and chance that's behind it all. I do believe that feminism has had an effect, but how big, I can't really say. The increased number of single parent households where there is no male role model plays a much larger role in my opinion.

Jaazzuuz H. Murphy ! Wussification ? You're slaying me man !  ;D .....OK, yes, times they be a changing and us male chimps aren't near the power houses that we used to be, but are you not exaggerating and generalizing just a tad to much with this claim that we've moved, or are being mislead, over to the land of snivelling weakness ? .......OK, so at what point would you like us to go back to ? Name a point in history that us guy primates acted like we should and civilized to the point of jaw dropping astonishment ? Oh Boy ! That's gonna be a tough one I know!!-- Because I'm of the opinion that at this point in history, it is about the best that us drooling flatulating couch potatoes have ever behaved, and if it has taken a bit of "wussification" to arrive at this point, then so be it. Myself, I will admit, that I'm a touch wussified:--I've learned to garden, learned to cook, and love shopping, but, I still ride a Harley, go to the gun range, smash the fuck out of golf balls, and love beer, whisky, ribs, hockey, and of course wussy pussy.  :P       

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Look, having an open disdain or phobia of homosexuality and those in gay relationships, is behaving irrationally and childish. Who the fuck is anyone, in this day and age, to think they have a moral say in this type of consenting behaviour ? People just need to grow the fuck up and shut the fuck up and stop acting like they're some type of moral authority and police force. What goes on in the sexual and relational lives and bedrooms of mature, responsible, and consenting adults is their business alone, and should not be the business or concern of others and their personal "views" and dislikes. Views on these matters are subjective and can be dead wrong and outright bigoted.

My homophobia as a former theist came out as the view that gays were severely fucked up, demon possessed, and hell-bound. (I just feel like punching myself in the fucking face as I type this and make that confession). That's christian based homophobia just about at its worst.... But secularist homophobia is no better, and perhaps is more disgusting, as they don't have religion as a motivator and so that excuse is removed and therefore leaves them with little or nothing rational to base their hatred or phobia on.

All people, religious or not, just need to SHUT UP on this benign behaviour, and keep their discriminatory and irrelevant to the issue opinions to themselves. Violent behaviour towards gays is of course criminal and should be dealt with as necessary and to the full extent of the law.

Moral high ground is not the issue here, at least it's not what I'm discussing. What I'm discussing is the realities of how people feel about it and perhaps why that is the case. Violent behavior and hate is by no means justified or advocated, but the fact of the matter is that people are gonna have their opinions and there is little that can be done about that other than shunning those that act violently and discriminatory towards their fellow man.

But it is about the moral high ground here. When people form an opinion and strong feelings about an issue and then voice those opinions, it at the same time also means they've attached a moral and ethical value to the issue. Any stated opinion for, or against, an issue reveals a persons morals and ethics. Are we free to do this ? Of course ! But the question of the morality or immorality of the issue of being gay has been settled and self-evident for ages. It's perfectly rational and morally acceptable to be gay.

The fact that you were to be gay would have the same importance to me as the fact that you ate peanuts. Whether you eat peanuts, or you eat penis, is your business, and my thoughts on the morality of you doing either of those rational things should be irrelevant to anyone but me, and should be kept private and to myself.

Why do some still persist with the opinions and arguments against this type of relationship ? Well, the reality is mate, that those who continue the debate and hold negative opinions over being gay, are being incredibly selfish, stupid, and stubborn for doing so when they know very well that the issue has been settled for a very long time and that it is a perfectly moral and harmless behaviour.

They show themselves to be the intellectually weak individuals that they are. Not all chimps are the same.  ;)
 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:53:01 PM by gonegolfing »
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2011, 02:54:56 PM »
Whether you eat peanuts, or you eat penis, is your business, and my thoughts on the morality of you doing either of those rational things should be irrelevant to anyone but me, and should be kept private and to myself.

I don't see how the consumption of another human being's reproductive organ is "rational"
Unless you meant it figuratively, in which case I agree
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Offline wright

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2011, 09:53:23 PM »
I imagine my definition of true change in homphobia would be the eradication of the discrimination entirely. Or for it lessen to such an extent that it is never really mentioned as a point of concern.

Ok, fair enough. My definition would be pretty much the same: not just greater tolerance but much greater acceptance.

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Which I imagine is unlikely in this society, even in my lifetime (myself being 16.)  &)

Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible. After all, you probably have a better life expectancy than I (myself being 49 in a few days). While you may not live longer than the last homophobe, you might well live to see them become a decided minority  ;).
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2011, 10:39:15 PM »
bm
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2011, 09:15:20 AM »
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2011, 09:22:05 AM »

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2011, 12:42:21 PM »
this what you had in mind, ToT?
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2011/09/making-men.html

Not exactly, I actually prefer the advice given here http://manhood101.com/ebook.html.

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Dr. LeDice & Professor Plum----" we're here to clear out the bullshit.


Well then !! ....I say that the "clearing out" from the mansion of the wussified weakling Mr. Boddy, was done by Dr. LeDice & Professor Plum with the lead pipe and obviously in the kitchen where Mr. Boddy spent most of his time !!

 ;D
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2011, 12:56:12 PM »
Explain what you mean by "wussification".

Where to begin.............

Starting with boys, the rambunciousness that was always expected is now more than ever looked at as promblematic. More and more boys are being druged with meds like methylphenidate, (aka ritalin), to tone down that which in many cases is natural for boys.


That's just a symptom of "clinicalization" where if someone is a little moody...they have to be "manic- depressive" and that needs to be medicated. I'm not say there are legitimate extremes that do, in fact, need to be medicated, however between overpretective parents, who, however slightly, are subject to just a little Muchausen's by proxy type behavior because in this fluid and crowded life we lead...they want to shout just a little louder, to be heard above the crowd...meanwhile all the crowd is doing the same. Listen to same tapes or transcripts of people speaking in the 1930s to 1950s and compare it to modern talk. You'll notice something: Hyperbola. With a few exceptions, such as Communists or race attitudes...leave those out, you notice current speech is bombastic and drama ridden when compared. The Boasts are greater, the complaints are louder, the problems put in terms most dire.



Jumping to manhood, ever notice how non athletic, non celebrity men are depicted commercially? Men are typically depicted as bumbling, studipd, can't get rights who are totally lost without some female guidance. Fathers cannot handle the home or the kids, so when mom's away, all hell breaks loose because the man is incapable. All men are good for is grunting, watching a game, and occasionally may be rewarded with a sexual treat if they are good widdle boys.

That isn't a modern phenomenon at all. It is as old as television. Dad as dummy, Father as fool was considered funny because it played AGAINST the stereotypes of the 1950s. "Haha...it is the man that is the incompetent...ho ho hee heee" why it stays is that unlike treat other types as foolish....the male patriarch is still a ripe target without a PC backlash in addition to the lingering oringinal reason for the humor in the fist place.

And yes PC "acceptable target" is a real force.

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Offline ungod

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2011, 12:26:48 PM »
If a test for homosexuality became possible on the fetus, would a positive result be ethical grounds for an abortion?
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2011, 12:29:50 PM »
If a test for homosexuality became possible on the fetus, would a positive result be ethical grounds for an abortion?

You know for atheists, that would be a non-question. For Theist, that would require a case of denial...and the've got very very very practiced at that over the years.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline One Above All

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2011, 12:30:18 PM »
If a test for homosexuality became possible on the fetus, would a positive result be ethical grounds for an abortion?

...No.

You know for atheists, that would be a non-question.

What do you mean by this?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 01:09:04 PM by Lucifer »
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2011, 02:45:39 PM »

You know for atheists, that would be a non-question.

What do you mean by this?


Almost all complaints about homosexuality on ethical grounds are religious in nature. So it reads pretty much the same as "If there was a test for left handedness, would a positive result be ethical grounds for an abortion?" It isn't really a question so much as a set of presumptions that do not apply to atheists.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Homophobia
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2011, 03:01:02 PM »
Almost all complaints about homosexuality on ethical grounds are religious in nature. So it reads pretty much the same as "If there was a test for left handedness, would a positive result be ethical grounds for an abortion?" It isn't really a question so much as a set of presumptions that do not apply to atheists.

Alright.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.