Author Topic: Can We One Day Beat Death?  (Read 2832 times)

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Offline Truth OT

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Can We One Day Beat Death?
« on: August 17, 2011, 03:50:12 PM »
Sometimes I think perhaps way too much (if that's even possible), and lately I have kind of been consummed with the idea that one day we can discover a ways or some ways to halt the natural corruption of our bodies that aging brings as well as eliminate death by natural causes. 

Can gravity be manipulated to help us extend our life spans?

Is it possible to manufacture an environment that lends to extended human and animal vigor and vitality?

Is accepting the status quo on death something that we will continue to do as a race or will we find a way to conquer it?

just thinking.................

Offline Nick

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2011, 04:03:23 PM »
There are 6+ billion of us on the planet now.  If we live any longer that will make things that much worse.  Live your life and enjoy it.  You won't care after you are gone.
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Offline Paperbackslave

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2011, 04:13:48 PM »
Of course, there are people working on this, and I expect it is just a matter of time.  What we will do with it when it comes is another question.  Those population problems, you know.

I love me some Science Channel - scientist Aubrey de Grey discusses this on a recent episode of Through the Wormhole:

http://science.discovery.com/videos/through-the-wormhole-can-we-live-forever/
Atheists are spectators in a grand battle of stupid ideas.  Sadly, these ideas get people killed in the name of a loving god on both sides of the delusion.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2011, 04:34:15 PM »
I figured that the population problem would be an issue were we to figure out how to extend our lifespans being that our planet has finite resources. That being said, if we can figure out how to curtail the dying process, then we definately would need to get in the business of developing an exit strategy so that a massive human exodus from Earth can preserve our race.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2011, 05:09:26 PM »
Not only do I see the point you make about over-population but worse still would be the consequences for advancement of humankind.

With extremely extended lives, dynasties would rise that would prevent thought beyond that of which they approve. Imagine being ruled today by those who keep to the social ideas of 1900 or even earlier.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Nick

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2011, 05:13:26 PM »
Not only do I see the point you make about over-population but worse still would be the consequences for advancement of humankind.

With extremely extended lives, dynasties would rise that would prevent thought beyond that of which they approve. Imagine being ruled today by those who keep to the social ideas of 1900 or even earlier.
You mean Republicans???
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Offline Alzael

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2011, 05:15:12 PM »
Not only do I see the point you make about over-population but worse still would be the consequences for advancement of humankind.

With extremely extended lives, dynasties would rise that would prevent thought beyond that of which they approve. Imagine being ruled today by those who keep to the social ideas of 1900 or even earlier.
You mean Republicans???

Exactly. Imagine all of the annoying humans you have to deal right now. Now imagine that those morons never die, yet continue to breed. The future would be like Idiocracy, only a million times worse.

This is one of the many reasons why immortality is only desired by those who have never really thought about it.

Another problem would be the slowing down of the mind that happens when we get older. This is not always a matter of degredation or illness, but of the limitations of the mind in general. If you use a computer too much and load it with information again and again it begins to slow down overtime as files get put moved around and stuff gets deleted, etc. The same thing happens to the brain. Unless we also come up with ways to "defrag" our harddrives. Living forever is likely not a good idea.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 05:21:46 PM by Alzael »
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2011, 05:30:24 PM »
I don't know Alzy. From what I've read it seems that the brain has even more unknown about it than the sea and space. Who's to say that our brains would not continue to process more and more info without the overload that hard drives with known and limited capacity encounters?

I find it very unlikely that if mankind could acheive immortality that we would be confined long term to archiac thinking. In addition, it seems unlikely that we will ultimately be confined to this planet or even this galaxy were immortality achieved. 

Offline Alzael

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2011, 05:53:57 PM »
I don't know Alzy. From what I've read it seems that the brain has even more unknown about it than the sea and space. Who's to say that our brains would not continue to process more and more info without the overload that hard drives with known and limited capacity encounters?

It already happens. As I mentioned this is why our brains start to slow down as we get older. You could have found this out with a simple google search. Perhaps you should read a bit more, "Truthy".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_brain#Structural_Changes

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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2011, 06:05:46 PM »
Did the God-botherers from the time of BC live 600+ years or was that all just bullshit too?
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Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2011, 07:04:36 PM »
OMFG, like there aren't too many fucking people already.
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Offline dloubet

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2011, 12:56:15 AM »
The problem is that when immortality comes, it'll be a surprise. We'll suddenly realize that we've developed a cure or treatment for every individual symptom of old age. It'll sneak up on us because each cure is something that no one can argue with. I don't hear people saying we shouldn't develop a cure for Alzheimer's, or prostate cancer, or any other individual curse of old age, so when we cure all those things individually we'll essentially have extreme longevity.

The cures I'm talking about include Alzael's concerns about the slowing of the brain. It's not like neuroscience will be at a standstill while the symptoms of aging are dealt with. I'm already reading articles about possible avenues to restoring the youthful plasticity of the brain.

Yes, the specter of the older generation never getting out of the way is terrifying, but the unlimited possibilities that multiple lifetimes offer is staggering.

It's gonna happen, so we better be prepared.
Denis Loubet

Offline screwtape

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2011, 08:04:24 AM »
...the natural corruption of our bodies that aging brings as well as eliminate death by natural causes. 

It's not natural.  It is supernatural: sin.  E&A sinned and now we are all corrupted.  The entire universe was irrevokably damaged by their sin.  There is no way to stop it.  Best we can hope for is to be washed in the blood of jesus H christ and by the grace of god be forgiven of our sin and take our place at his right hand in heaven.

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Offline Truth OT

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2011, 09:47:30 AM »
...the natural corruption of our bodies that aging brings as well as eliminate death by natural causes. 

It's not natural.  It is supernatural: sin.  E&A sinned and now we are all corrupted.  The entire universe was irrevokably damaged by their sin.  There is no way to stop it.  Best we can hope for is to be washed in the blood of jesus H christ and by the grace of god be forgiven of our sin and take our place at his right hand in heaven.

What does the "H" stand for?

Offline screwtape

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2011, 11:07:27 AM »
since he was jewish, I'm guessing it is Herschel, possibly Himey, but it could also be Hillel. 
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Offline plethora

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2011, 11:20:36 AM »
Humanity will eventually overcome death... my guess is via genetic engineering.

Overpopulation is an issue... but then again, humans didn't evolve to live 80 years either. We're supposed to be dying at age 30 remember?

By the time we start uploading our consciousness into machines we'll have mastered the conversion of matter into energy and vice-versa to the point where we can materialize anything need.

Space travel will be a lot easier without biological machines that depend on scarce things like an oxygen rich atmosphere.

It's gonna be awesome... but I won't be around to give a shit.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2011, 12:01:06 PM »
Can gravity be manipulated to help us extend our life spans?

screwing with gravity can hurt you. Witness the problems that astronauts have during long duration flights.

and with no death, then no need for an afterlife.  Will God get lonely?
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2011, 01:51:54 PM »
Quote
Quote
Best we can hope for is to be washed in the blood of jesus H christ and by the grace of god be forgiven of our sin and take our place at his right hand in heaven.

What does the "H" stand for?

Haploid.   ;D
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Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2011, 07:10:27 PM »
Quote
Quote
Best we can hope for is to be washed in the blood of jesus H christ and by the grace of god be forgiven of our sin and take our place at his right hand in heaven.

What does the "H" stand for?

Haploid.   ;D

That's a fabulous answer!
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Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2011, 07:12:49 PM »
Humanity will eventually overcome death... my guess is via genetic engineering.

Overpopulation is an issue... but then again, humans didn't evolve to live 80 years either. We're supposed to be dying at age 30 remember?

By the time we start uploading our consciousness into machines we'll have mastered the conversion of matter into energy and vice-versa to the point where we can materialize anything need.

Space travel will be a lot easier without biological machines that depend on scarce things like an oxygen rich atmosphere.

It's gonna be awesome... but I won't be around to give a shit.

I want some of the stuff you're smoking.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Offline BaalServant

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2011, 03:48:50 AM »
What does the "H" stand for?

Hfukking
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2011, 05:11:43 PM »
I'm glad I'm not alone in wanting to be able to live forever!


« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 05:13:18 PM by Truth OT »

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2011, 05:22:12 PM »
Halt?  I just don't see it happening.  The thing is that it takes more and more energy to halt entropy the longer its halted, so there will almost certainly be a point beyond which it just can't continue.  So we won't have people living forever.  But slowing it down, certainly.  And it might help create an emigration pressure.  Imagine if you could gain a lifespan of several hundred years, provided you agree to move to a colony planet (like a legal agreement).  I imagine there'd be a lot of people who would be willing to consider that.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2011, 05:30:40 PM »
Halt?  I just don't see it happening.  The thing is that it takes more and more energy to halt entropy the longer its halted, so there will almost certainly be a point beyond which it just can't continue.  So we won't have people living forever.  But slowing it down, certainly.  And it might help create an emigration pressure.  Imagine if you could gain a lifespan of several hundred years, provided you agree to move to a colony planet (like a legal agreement).  I imagine there'd be a lot of people who would be willing to consider that.

No imagine that man has been living on this colony planet for say, 1,000,000 years. Would it be feazable to assume that man's later generations will have to the non-Earth environment and not have the same biological limitations that today's humans have?

Offline Historicity

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2011, 05:53:44 PM »
Melanin and waste materials build up in brain cells.  So ultimately you are looking to mess with the brain without impairing function or changing it so you are someone else.

Imagine a world where you can spot the seniors because while everyone appears to be 25, the senile ones are the ones on the high side of 200.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2011, 05:56:35 PM »
No imagine that man has been living on this colony planet for say, 1,000,000 years. Would it be feazable to assume that man's later generations will have to the non-Earth environment and not have the same biological limitations that today's humans have?
I don't think it would take a million years to fill up a planet with humans.  So it would have to be limited to so-called "frontier" colony planets.

Offline pingnak

Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2011, 06:13:56 PM »
A 'VERSION' of you could live forever.  Long after the biological original has gone to dust.

If you can take a high enough resolution 3D image of your central nervous system, and process that down to the core logical functionality, and build an emulator to run that simulation.  All senses are inputs.  All motor activity are outputs.  And with version control and 'undo' on your virtual mind, interfacing it, modifying it, etc. becomes a trivial exercise.  Ultra-high resolution senses.  'Psychic' powers.  Direct mind-machine interfaces of any kind become child's play.  Fix your little psychological 'hang-ups', directly, if you like.  Live a thousand years in a day, or a day over a thousand years. 

A perfect virtual you that never succumbs to entropy, because you're not made of sticky, gooey, biological matter.  You're information.

Got killed in a rent-a-bod?  Not a problem!  Even if it was completely annihilated, computer brain blown to bits, you lost all the time since you jumped into that body, but wake up remembering everything up to that moment.  Most likely the computer wouldn't be damaged, and you could be recovered and uplinked back to the main world.  If some kind of a black box survived, you could play back the day up until you 'died', and basically recover the lost time, too.

Then as long as there was the computer, and energy to run the computer that ran your simulation (networked with other virtualized minds, in a virtual environment), you could live 'forever' in a land of plenty. 

And the virtual worlds could certainly outlast 'real' worlds.  A star orbiting metal can with solar panels and some antennae could keep such a world going long after a star went past its red giant phase.  Long after all worlds around it are charred rocks.  And the satellites could take a little nap and be boosted to other stars.  Even if it took centuries to make the trip, the minds within would not be damaged.  Or simply broadcast its citizens and their worlds to other, fresh, new satellites, around other, fresh, new stars.  Even back them up, in case something happens.  You could literally go on the trip and stay home, too.  Or wait until the craft arrives and uplink to it, then.

Interstellar travel becomes a cakewalk.  Speed of light travel becomes simple.  Rent and inhabit bodies to do things in the 'real world'.  Be perfect.  Eat your cake, have it, eat it again.  Never get fat, unless you want to be.  Be whatever shape you want to be.  Be whatever you want to be.  Live in wonderland.  Play in virtual worlds as yourself.  Or selectively 'forget' and roleplay ultra-deeply in a game that lasts decades.  Or reset your mind and spawn new versions of yourself.  Be an engineer AND an artist.  Go to school, forever learning, and never forgetting... unless you want to.

Got an Edison?  An Einstein?  Spawn a hundred of 'em.  Faster, smaller, more efficient machines all the time.  Filling the universe with virtual worlds and factories making more virtual worlds and more factories, would be pretty straight-forward, compared to colonizing worlds with biological people.  And you could orbit a LOT of virtual world running computers around just ONE star.  A billion earths with trillions of immortal people, around each star.

The universe is pretty darned big, and there are more than a few billion years' worth of generations of stars to get energy from, which gives plenty of time to come up with annihilation reactors and other energy sources to make matter into energy to continue running the systems long after the universe is a dark, cold, near vacuum with a few singularities scattered about.

Long, long, long after anything biological went extinct.

Seeding the void, patiently waiting a trillion years for more 'big bangs' to happen becomes a possibility, too.

A trillion-trillion-trillion immortal worlds and their industrial counterparts, sleeping, waiting. 

Or perhaps doing something about it.  Or running on interfaces bridging dimensions.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2011, 06:20:42 PM »
So as opposed to each of us existing in a shared reality, our virtual selves could exist in a personal and individual reality that does not conflict or interfere that that of others. Wouldn't that literally make us each the "God" of our reality as we would be able to make and control everything with our thoughts or via preprograming?

Offline pingnak

Re: Can We One Day Beat Death?
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2011, 06:28:32 PM »
We could share a world, or live in our own, but most would prefer to live in a world with others, since we are social creatures... unless we edit ourselves to be less so.

SOME would make worlds.  Most would just live in them.  I mean, 'World of Warcraft' can literally BE your life, without interfering with anything.  Go to sleep in your 'productive' world, wake up in the game world, and vise-versa.

And when you've taken your world to a fresh new star, with the right kind of planet(s) around it, you could, as a hobby, dig out some DNA sequences from storage and terraform, then colonize worlds with biological plants, animals, people. 

A fresh source to image and make different, new minds, without in any way harming the originals, that live out their own biological lives, while a version of their 'souls' at the peak of their youth, their optimism, their endless possibilities... lives on forever.  You could even keep the whole model going and only boot up the 'souls' after they die.  Just for kicks, and to keep the religiously/philosophically/etc. minded ones happy.