Author Topic: What was the purpose of Jesus?  (Read 4501 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2011, 11:53:45 AM »
I absolutely LOVE the solar powered flashlight!!!  LOL-  The purpose of Jesus is apparently for the other 33% of us that need that reference point of accountability, ethics, and general way of life.
And that percentage that all decides that JC meant something different and how their religion is the best.  And yes, religion, flav.  You follow a religion.  What you do is how the word religion is defined.  Many Christians don’t like the term since their actions have made it have bad connotations.

You use the same idiotic claims of so many theists.  You want to play pretend that if there is no God, then people have no reason to act humanely.  And all who use that garbage fail every time.  We are accountable to each other and to ourselves. Again, no need for your god at all.   

Quote
But the purpose of Jesus - was simply for me.  I need him- every single day I still need his forgiveness- Jesus said he came to give life more abundantly- It is true for me- every morning I thank him for another sunrise that I was never promised.
Why not thank Amon Ra for another day that was never promised either?  Yet more arrogant and ignorant claims by a Christian.  And free will doesn’t’ figure in your bible at all.  You have just added it to the religion you’ve made up for yourself. 

You claim that your life now “has more abundant purpose than before”.  What is this purpose, flav?  And how does your purpose differ from mine? 


fixed quotes
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 12:47:53 PM by screwtape »
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline CARZ

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2011, 06:07:22 PM »
I'm very surprised to see people who believe in god in this forum... after all the arguments proving you're wrong, why on earth would you persist on your arguments Flavor...?

Online 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4593
  • Darwins +104/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2011, 06:08:54 PM »
If  this Flav needs god for his forgivness everyday,she is not really living a life for Jesus. She is living a life for herself and expecting God to be OK with it
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2709
  • Darwins +219/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #90 on: August 18, 2011, 09:28:04 PM »
I absolutely LOVE the solar powered flashlight!!!  LOL-  The purpose of Jesus is apparently for the other 33% of us that need that reference point of accountability, ethics, and general way of life. There is no doubt in my mind that all religion will fall short and fail!!! Does that suprise you? Even if they were started out perfectly, humans will find a way to mess them up. (MYSELF INCLUDED)  - maybe even leading the way - Hee...hee....   Abraham Lincoln defined character as "The decisions one makes when nobody is around"If there is no higher power to be leary of, why do anything nice?  ACCOUNTABILITY- maybe- if we had more accountability in American Politics, we wouldn't be where we are today? But the purpose of Jesus - was simply for me.  I need him- every single day I still need his forgiveness- Jesus said he came to give life more abundantly- It is true for me- every morning I thank him for another sunrise that I was never promised. If my children can thank a plump jolly bearded man for gifts placed in their stockings on Christmas Morning- Whom should I thank for placing two feet in my own stockings? Free-will has given you and I the ability to decide what to believe. My purpose for Jesus can be different than yours. My life now has more abundant purpose than before.

Eh?

>>ACCOUNTABILITY- maybe- if we had more accountability in American Politics, we wouldn't be where we are today?

Accountability has nothing to do with Christianity. Australian government and European government is more atheist and more accountable.

>> There is no doubt in my mind that all religion will fall short and fail!!! Does that suprise you?

Yes and no. You've been conditioned to believe you have to be perfect and absolved to enter heaven by your religion, but there are other religions which have implicitly embedded in them that man is not supposed to be perfect. I have no doubt that religion will fail, because it is non-evidence based, so people who say they believe, really are just pretending.

>> Abraham Lincoln defined character as "The decisions one makes when nobody is around"

So, what if you believe that God is always around and judging you; when are you alone? What has this to do with the price of fish?



Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline curiousgirl

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
  • Darwins +22/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Inquisitive agnostic atheist
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #91 on: August 18, 2011, 10:13:09 PM »
WATER! Yes you can touch and taste water. You can even smell it sometimes. How can you tell if water is 100% pure? 99% water with just 01% arsenic for instance will put a damper on your retirement plans. Every one of us has faith in the unseen. The unknown. Did you check the chair you are sitting in to make sure it was sturdy enough, drink milkafter the expiration date, or eating at McDonalds!(Hee..hee...) Almost 3/4 of the body is water. Being 2% dehydrated can SERIOUSLY degrade physical and MENTAL functions. 15% dehydration is likely to be lethal. We need to decifer good and bad water. If I water an apple tree with salt water, it will soon die. Good water, and it will prosper and produce. I believe you will know truth by the fruit it produces more often than what we chose to believe.That is tangeable

Wasn't the topic "What was the purpose of Jesus?" Flavor's "argument" is yet another example of the Chewbacca Defense....

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline curiousgirl

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
  • Darwins +22/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Inquisitive agnostic atheist
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #92 on: August 18, 2011, 10:19:05 PM »
WOW-- lets retract the claws and try again-   

Suppose we heard an unknown man spoken of by many men. Some people said he was too tall and some too short; some objected to his fatness, some lamented his leanness; some thought him too dark, and some too fair. One explanation would be that he might be an odd shape. But there is another explanation. He might be the right shape! Outrageously tall men might feel him to be too short. Very short men feel him too tall. Old men too young, and young men too old. Perhaps negroes thinking the man too blonde while blondes considering him too dark. PERHAPS (in short)this extraordinary thing is really the ordinary thing; at least the normal thing, the center. Perhaps Jesus is at the core of sanity, and all his critics are quite mad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense

I think he won, guys. There is nothing we can do about it.


Oh, wow. Now that I went back and read this post, I see that I am not the first person to think Flavor is using the Chewbacca Defense....coincidence? I think not.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline Rustybeatz

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Darwins +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #93 on: August 18, 2011, 10:45:53 PM »
So, what if you believe that God is always around and judging you; when are you alone?

Does this mean Christians have no character? 

Offline CARZ

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #94 on: August 19, 2011, 11:53:06 AM »
the Bible says believers shouldn't fall in conversations that are of no use... so cristian people in here are not true cristians.

Offline JeffPT

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2020
  • Darwins +201/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a lead farmer mutha fucka
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #95 on: August 19, 2011, 03:25:29 PM »
If there is no higher power to be leary of, why do anything nice?

If you think the only reason you have to be good is because you are afraid of what will happen to you if you're not, then you aren't a moral person to begin with.  You may need to fear punishment in order to be good, but you shouldn't think less of those of us who want to be good because it feels better to help people than to hurt them. 

ACCOUNTABILITY- maybe- if we had more accountability in American Politics, we wouldn't be where we are today?

Maybe if we had fewer Christians in office, this would be the case.  As it is, too many Christians think that they can do wrong stuff all the time and just ask for Jesus to forgive them and everything is just fine.  Perhaps if they didn't believe everything they did could be forgiven by their invisible sky man, we could get down to the business of excelling again. 

I need him- every single day I still need his forgiveness-

What are you doing all the time that needs to be forgiven?  Why not live a life that you feel good about instead of doing bad stuff all the time?   

every morning I thank him for another sunrise that I was never promised.

Before you were born, the sun rose and fell a bunch of times.  When you die, the sun will keep rising and setting.  Lesson to take away... the sun doesn't rise for you... 

If my children can thank a plump jolly bearded man for gifts placed in their stockings on Christmas Morning-

Why can't they just thank you instead? 

Whom should I thank for placing two feet in my own stockings?

Nobody.  Just be happy you exist.  Not everything that happens TO you happens FOR you. 

Free-will has given you and I the ability to decide what to believe. My purpose for Jesus can be different than yours. My life now has more abundant purpose than before.

If you want to claim your life has more abundant purpose than before, then that's fine.  But don't try to tell everyone it's true.  It's not true.  Don't try to convince everyone else that your delusional beliefs are necessary.  You may be so weak minded that you require the invention of a fictional sky man to forgive you for the bad stuff you've done, and to say 'thank you' to when you feel the urge, but the rest of us don't need it.  We're grown ups.  If you want to stay child-like and believe in your version of Santa for grown ups, then so be it, but please don't try to convince others that God is real.  Lying is bad, even your invisible man says that. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6858
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #96 on: August 22, 2011, 07:15:29 AM »
Quote from: flavour
But according to many other writtings outside the Bible, eleven out of the twelve died horrible deaths not to mention the abusive beatings and imprisonment(which the last one spent until his death on the Isle of Patmos) proclaiming that Jesus really is who he claimed to be.

Can you list them?

Flavour, I just want you to cite your sources here. Can you list the sources referenced in the bolded text above? Thanks.

I was surprised as I did not know of many contemporaneous or accurate or reliable writings talking about such things as how each of the apostles died. Help a brother out here.

Flavour, still would like to hear what you have to say here....^^
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2709
  • Darwins +219/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #97 on: August 22, 2011, 08:10:00 AM »
Flavour, still would like to hear what you have to say here....^^

He's gone, man. He went to Endor.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #98 on: August 22, 2011, 11:31:42 AM »
He's gone, man. He went to Endor.

Then Endor must have a nice internet connection right to this forum today..... :P
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline flavor

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #99 on: August 23, 2011, 10:27:48 AM »
Sorry for the late reponse. It has been a long weekend, and we just dropped off our exchange student to go back to Japan. But anyway:  I will try to answer as many comments as I can.
I never intended to offend anyone, and would hope that this all comes out as well as I plan.
Regardless of religeon including Aitheism, we all require some faith based beliefs. Absolute truth? Does it exist? Do we exist? We can argue our lives away, but the bottom line is that you all have to believe in the unseen just the same as I. How many natural occurances have you seen in your lifetime that create a whole universe? Probably the same amount of times as I have, playing chess with Almighty God. Our own pride of knowledge leads us to believe we possess all the answers, yet we can't even comprehend the brain that allows us to store this knowledge. We have to believe in something. Something beyond our own abilities, or we could create for ourselves.
     Why I am on this site is the same reason that you despise religion. People are not Christians. If they were, they would act like they really believed, not like they were going through some type of ritual while being tottally oblivious as to why they call themselves Christians. Not to mentions the many that love to judge everybody but themselves.Christians give themselves a black eye, they really don't need any help from anyone else. Not that they are any different from any other religion.Aitheism ncluded(Hittler, Stallin, who were both once seminary students)for example.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #100 on: August 23, 2011, 10:51:05 AM »
Sorry for the late reponse. It has been a long weekend, and we just dropped off our exchange student to go back to Japan. But anyway:  I will try to answer as many comments as I can. I never intended to offend anyone, and would hope that this all comes out as well as I plan. Regardless of religeon including Aitheism, we all require some faith based beliefs.
No, “we” don’t.  It gets tiring when you try to spew the same nonsense after being shown you are wrong.  It’s just the same old attempt by a theist to claim that atheists are “just like them”. 

As for your claims that you never intended to offend anyone, how about getting it straight that atheism isn’t a religion.  It’s so piteous when a theist tries this claim and fails so badly.  All you seem to have is the baseless claim that as long as you claim that religion and atheism are the same, then you don’t have to admit that you are wrong since how dare anyone point out anything that they are too.&)  I mean, really, this tactic lost any perceived veracity in elementary school.
 
Quote
Absolute truth? Does it exist? Do we exist?
Wow, in with the solipsism already.  I guess it is all that theists have at the very end of their baseless claims.
Quote
We can argue our lives away, but the bottom line is that you all have to believe in the unseen just the same as I.
No, “we” don’t.  You seem to be ignorant enough to equare “unseen” with undetectable. 
Quote
How many natural occurances have you seen in your lifetime that create a whole universe? Probably the same amount of times as I have, playing chess with Almighty God.
Yawn. As always, the theist ignores how science works. We have plenty of evidence that the BBT is valid, so your lies about “everyone” having “faith” in the unseen are shown to be the garbage they are.  So sad that you are such a hypocrite that you attack something you evidently don’t understand and use the science that supports it everyday.
Quote
Our own pride of knowledge leads us to believe we possess all the answers, yet we can't even comprehend the brain that allows us to store this knowledge. We have to believe in something. Something beyond our own abilities, or we could create for ourselves.
  We can comprehend the brain.  Not totally, and not *yet*, that term that theists are so quick to forget in their desperation to claim that their god “did it”. What happens when we do figure out the brain, Flav?  Oh, then you theists will just run to the next thing that your god can fit into the gaps of.  It’s like playing whack-a-mole with a retarded gopher, your delusion that you can find your god “real soon now”.
Quote
Why I am on this site is the same reason that you despise religion. People are not Christians. If they were, they would act like they really believed, not like they were going through some type of ritual while being tottally oblivious as to why they call themselves Christians.
Love the usual OneTrueChristiantm claims.  No, Flav, I dislike religion because people like you use it to be so willfully ignorant and deliberately deceitful. 
Quote
Not to mentions the many that love to judge everybody but themselves.Christians give themselves a black eye, they really don't need any help from anyone else. Not that they are any different from any other religion.Aitheism ncluded(Hittler, Stallin, who were both once seminary students)for example.
and ah, the usual ignorance of a theist trying to claim atheism is a religion.  Are you too stupid or willfully ignorant to actually know the definition of religion, Flav?  Evidently you are with your faulty attempts to compare the lack of belief in something with the belief in something.  And oh, goody, the usual idiocy of trying to say atheism is the only reason that Hitler and Stalin were what they were.  Sorry, Flav, but you fail rather pitifully.  Have you heard of megalomania?  No, of course not.  You have to claim that your religion is the only right one and all others are “wrong”, and of course with no evidence that your version is the right one at all. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6858
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #101 on: August 23, 2011, 11:09:20 AM »
Flavour, can you answer my question please?

It's here

P.S. do you speak Japanese?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12205
  • Darwins +654/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #102 on: August 23, 2011, 01:26:07 PM »
but the bottom line is that you all have to believe in the unseen just the same as I.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing.  And I think the extent to which I have faith or blind faith or "believe in the unseen" is less than you.

How many natural occurances have you seen in your lifetime that create a whole universe?

If you are saying we have faith in the big bang, then you are making a categorical error.  We may believe it is the best explanation of the birth of the universe, but that does not require faith.  We are willing to discard it for a better explanation.  Do you have the same attitude toward god?

Our own pride of knowledge leads us to believe we possess all the answers,

I don't know any atheists who think that.  I only know theists who are that arrogant.

We have to believe in something.

That is very ambiguous.  What does that mean?  I believe in lots of things, but none of them are supernatural, and none of them invovle invisible yet omnipresent supermen.

People are not Christians.

so what good is religion if it cannot even get people to act any differently than if there was no god?

Aitheism ncluded

Atheism is not a religion, shitdick.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Avatar Of Belial

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
  • Darwins +30/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm not an Evil person; I just act like one!
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #103 on: August 23, 2011, 01:41:27 PM »
Regardless of religeon including Aitheism,

First off, it's "religion" and "atheism". In "religion", that second "e" should be an "i". Unless it starts a sentence, "atheism" is not capitalized. It also does not have an "i" between the "a" and the "t". I am, however, amazed that you got the "ei" order correct.

we all require some faith based beliefs.
No, we don't. "I don't know" is a powerful phrase.

Not that they are any different from any other religion.Aitheism ncluded(Hittler, Stallin, who were both once seminary students)for example.

"Hitler" has only one "t", and "Stalin" has only one "l", for future reference. I'll assume the lack of an "i" in "included" was a simple typo. Hitler was not an atheist, he was a Catholic - which was a heavy influence on his decisions over the course of the war. Stalin, on the other hand had no influence from his atheism when it came to his "purges", but instead was killing for a better Soviet Union (in his own odd political philosophy), so his inclusion here is out-of-place.
"You play make-believe every day of your life, and yet you have no concept of 'imagination'."
I do not have "faith" in science. I have expectations of science. "Faith" in something is an unfounded assertion, whereas reasonable expectations require a precedent.

Offline Astreja

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2996
  • Darwins +264/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • Agnostic goddess with Clue-by-Four™
    • The Springy Goddess
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2011, 09:38:52 PM »
Regardless of religeon including Aitheism...
Atheism is not a religion.

Quote
..we all require some faith based beliefs.
I don't think we're talking about the same kind of 'faith,' Flavor.  I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow morning.  I do not have faith that Ra is the cause of it, or Amaterasu Omikami either, nor do I have faith that a couple of wolves are tagging along behind the sun with the express intent of swallowing it and plunging Midgard into darkness.

Quote
Absolute truth? Does it exist?
It may or may not exist; however, outside of mathematics I don't see much practical use for it.

Quote
Do we exist?
You know, Flavor, I don't actually care if I really exist or not because I'm going to proceed on the assumption that yes, I do exist, and shall live My live accordingly.

Quote
Our own pride of knowledge leads us to believe we possess all the answers, yet we can't even comprehend the brain that allows us to store this knowledge.
Neuroscience may one day explain the brain.  I'm willing to bet that it'll do a much better job of it than religion... Any religion.

Oh, and to the best of My knowledge and belief, no one here actually believes that they "possess all the answers."  Strawman fallacy.
Reality Checkroom — Not Responsible for Lost Articles

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2709
  • Darwins +219/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #105 on: August 24, 2011, 12:15:21 AM »
People are not Christians. If they were, they would act like they really believed,

I think I just lost track of what religion flavor is.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Samuelxcs

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 669
  • Darwins +6/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • The oldest and strongest emotion of humans is fear
    • Fallen Angels
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #106 on: August 24, 2011, 05:49:30 AM »
The purpose of Jesus is to annoy us, that's what I think. Someone hides somewhere and sends their so called 'son' to come to us and convince people his 'father' exists? Why not just show yourself to everyone to convince them you exist?
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
-Thomas Szasz

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6611
  • Darwins +523/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #107 on: August 24, 2011, 03:50:30 PM »
Regardless of religeon including Aitheism, we all require some faith based beliefs.
Why do you say that?
Quote
Absolute truth? Does it exist? Do we exist?
No, wait a minute here. This is just absolute garbage by way of a question. Of course we know things. The alternative is that we knew nothing at all.

You are using the verb “to know” as if every person should know every fact. The truth is that we know enough to live our lives and observe the patterns and consequences.
Quote
the bottom line is that you all have to believe in the unseen just the same as I.
No. It’s nothing like you. You have invented an invisible friend who agrees with you.
Quote
How many natural occurances have you seen in your lifetime that create a whole universe?
83. I saw the last one a week ago.
Quote
Probably the same amount of times as I have, playing chess with Almighty God.
As your god apparently can see into your mind, I bet you lose pretty regularly. (Is that considered cheating?)
Quote
Our own pride of knowledge
I grant you that you have nothing to be proud of.
Quote
yet we can't even comprehend the brain that allows us to store this knowledge.
No, may I correct you – you can’t understand the brain – other people can. Never forget: just because you can't understand something, it does not mean that some magic pixie must have done it.
Quote
We have to believe in something.
What does that mean? We have to believe in something, but it looks like you believe in anything.
Quote
Something beyond our own abilities, or we could create for ourselves.
What??? Create ourselves? What are babies?
Quote
Why I am on this site is the same reason that you despise religion.
There you go, getting it wrong again. I am here because I believe that ignorance and superstition have kept mankind back from great things.
Quote
People are not Christians. If they were, they would act like they really believed,
I have never met anyone who qualifies as a Christian. I don’t think you would qualify.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 03:52:53 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #108 on: August 30, 2011, 03:14:52 PM »
Flav, I wonder if you can respond to the questions posed to you.  You have made a lot of baseless claims and they have been shown to be wrong.  It would be a shame, though expected, to have one more Christian be demonstrated as someone who can't defend their claims and who appears to be just one more person trying to make shit stick to a wall. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline rickymooston

Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #109 on: September 19, 2011, 07:18:23 PM »
Flavor, you've been misinformed about atheism on a number of points:
1) I don't know is often a valid answer to some questions; e.g., most atheists acknowledge we've no clue about why the universe is there. It just is.
2) Comparing atheism to Christianity is silly; you can try comparing atheism to theism (where people believing in the Greek Gods are considered the same as Budhists, Chritians, Jews and Krishna people). Atheism includes those who passively disbelieve. Google Russel's tea pot
3) Most atheists understand we have to make assumptions about things such as corelating our senses with reality.

Regardless of religeon including Aitheism, we all require some faith based beliefs.

What you seem to be trying to say is, we all have suppositions; i.e., assumptions we make. This is true. We cannot know much beyond "I think therefore I am" without making assumptions.

There are problems with considering atheism a "religion". Would you call "theism" a religion when Muslims, Jews, Taoists (some branches of), Budhists (some branches), Hindus and Zorasterians are all "theists"?

Quote
Absolute truth? Does it exist? Do we exist?

Its obvious in my opinion that I exist. I

Quote
the bottom line is that you all have to believe in the unseen just the same as I.

I don't think this is true. Perhaps I've no clue what you mean. We clearly all believe in things we've not seen personally; e.g., I believe in topology and haven't taken a course in that topic in mathematics.

Quote
How many natural  occurances have you seen in your lifetime that create a whole universe?

Well, why do I have believe anything "created" the universe. I see the universe and I'm unsure why it's there. I can't conceive of it not always being there in some form. What can possibly exist outside the universe. What does outside the universe mean?

Quote
Our own pride of knowledge leads us to believe we possess all the answers

Actually most atheists acknowledge questions that have no answers; I don;t know is a valid unproud answer.

Quote
yet we can't even comprehend the brain that allows us to store this knowledge. We have to believe in something. Something beyond our own abilities, or we could create for ourselves.

We  all believe in what we can perceive. Why believe in more?



Quote
     Why I am on this site is the same reason that you despise religion. People are not Christians. If they were, they would act like they really believed, not like they were going through some type of ritual while being tottally oblivious as to why they call themselves Christians. Not to mentions the many that love to judge everybody but themselves.Christians give themselves a black eye, they really don't need any help from anyone else. Not that they are any different from any other religion.Aitheism ncluded(Hittler, Stallin, who were both once seminary students)for example.

Hitler was not an atheist and he was not a serminary student. He was a life long member of the Catholic church who prfessed some Pagan superstitions in private; check out Speer's book. Speer knew him.

Stalin was a communist. I don't know if he really bellived that or just took advantage of the opportunity at hand. He was indeed a deminsraary student
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline rickymooston

Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #110 on: September 19, 2011, 07:29:10 PM »
Regardless of religeon including Aitheism, we all require some faith based beliefs.
Why do you say that?

He's right he actually. We all make assumptions and we need to. Technically philosopher's call these suppositions. (I hate words that I can't spell).

As a former math student, I tend to use the term "axioms".

He clearly doesn't know what atheist means, he thinks of it in terms of "strong atheism". The absolute conviction that no Gods exist.

Quote
Quote
Absolute truth? Does it exist? Do we exist?
No, wait a minute here. This is just absolute garbage by way of a question. Of course we know things. The alternative is that we knew nothing at all.

Strictly speaking, the alternative is correct. For example, how do you know everybody dies? You can have a good degree of confidence in making that claim but you can't say with 100% knowledge.

How do you know other people exist? You are implicitly making a ton of assumptions here; e.g., trusting your senses.

Quote
You are using the verb “to know” as if every person should know every fact. The truth is that we know enough to live our lives and observe the patterns and consequences.

Good point.


Quote
No, may I correct you – you can’t understand the brain – other people can.

In theory, potentially. In reality? Not yet and certainly not to the extent we'd like to. Neuroscience is apparently growing in leaps and bounds but nobody would claim that they "understand" the brain with any degree of confidence.

Quote
There you go, getting it wrong again. I am here because I believe that ignorance and superstition have kept mankind back from great things.

What great things are you talking about? Has it not occurred to you that other factors might be involved; e.g., simple human greed?


Quote
I have never met anyone who qualifies as a Christian. I don’t think you would qualify.

What do you think is requeired to qualify?
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6611
  • Darwins +523/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: What was the purpose of Jesus?
« Reply #111 on: September 22, 2011, 05:24:04 PM »
(Agreeing with the need for faith based beliefs)He's right he actually. I tend to use the term "axioms".We all make assumptions and we need to. Technically philosopher's call these suppositions. (I hate words that I can't spell).
There is an apparent need for a priori assumptions but this is the same as a battery on a diesel engine – once started, there is no longer a need for it. Our aim is to find what works and by patterns we do this.

Quote
He clearly doesn't know what atheist means, he thinks of it in terms of "strong atheism". The absolute conviction that no Gods exist.
Which my stance. I am as convinced as I am that Russell's Teapot does not exist at all, nor has it ever.

Quote
For example, how do you know everybody dies? You can have a good degree of confidence in making that claim but you can't say with 100% knowledge.
This is fine for arguing semantics. It is good after a few pints of beer and I would recommend it in a philosophy exam. We, however, live in the real world. 100% of people do die – we know why people die. It is like saying “Does zinc always dissolve in hydrochloric acid at room temperature? How can you be sure?” The answer is, “Yes it does and we know why it does it and it would do it if we weren’t there!”

It is such loose reasoning that leads to superstition, and a feeling that all may not be as it seems – it is the delight of new agers and those who attribute mysterious powers to crystals. Let me assure you, all is as it seems. Individually, we may see things slightly differently, but by and large we know a lamppost when we see one.

Quote
How do you know other people exist? You are implicitly making a ton of assumptions here; e.g., trusting your senses.
Yes, and being as all animals do this and the entire world is based upon our doing this, then I feel secure in accepting that this is how it should be done. If we are all fooled by an illusion, then that is reality. The real reality would be wrong.

Quote
(on being able to understand the brain)In theory, potentially. In reality? Not yet and certainly not to the extent we'd like to. Neuroscience is apparently growing in leaps and bounds but nobody would claim that they "understand" the brain with any degree of confidence.
I have not referred back to the poster Flavor’s original, but he was using the argument through ignorance – "we do not know therefore anything/my theory is as likely as yours. The truth is that we know a tremendous amount, and, as such can say we know the brain. It is clear that Flavor does not.

Quote
(GB)There you go, getting it wrong again. I am here because I believe that ignorance and superstition have kept mankind back from great things.

Quote
What great things are you talking about? Has it not occurred to you that other factors might be involved; e.g., simple human greed?
If you see my answer, I restricted the things that are both part of religion and part of the causes that have held mankind back. That there might be others, is neither here nor there.

I am willing to argue that, as religion had a stranglehold on power for 1000 years, those who purveyed it were responsible for learning and progress – which was minimal and could have been so much better.

Quote
Quote
I have never met anyone who qualifies as a Christian. I don’t think you would qualify.
What do you think is required to qualify?
You will be fully aware that to give an answer to that is the subject of several volumes, and I am simply not going to do your work.

That you ask, indicates that you have your own thoughts. These would have been useful.

In short, each and every Christian agrees with the bits of the Bible that suit them personally and discard the parts they find unpalatable[1]. This is not Christianity; this is creating your own god in your own image and worshipping him/her.





 1. They excuse themselves by Ro:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; of course, if this is so, no one gets into heaven, an all that godbothering is a waste of time.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 05:28:35 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”