Author Topic: London Riots  (Read 661 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EV

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
  • Darwins +52/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Philosopher, Atheist, Musician, Philanthropist
    • My Website
London Riots
« on: August 08, 2011, 04:47:37 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/london-riots


Absolutely awful.

There have been riots for 3 days in London, there is anarchy in the streets as youths loot shops. It all started because after a teenage boy shot an armed response police officer, the police shot and killed him. This has been used as an excuse to riot, loot and commit violent crime and acts of widespread arson.

Areas affected include Peckham, Lewisham, Croydon, Hackney and Tottenham.

The violence has now spread to Birmingham as well.

One of my friends lives in Brixton and said this to me over Facebook Chat:

Quote
All the buses were stopped.
4 people have been killed on my high street in the last 24 hours
I haven't even seen any news on tv. but they smashed the tmobile shop and foot locker, and people were just waking out with phones and shoes boxes because theres no glass left, but I think at home we will be fine, becuse most of the risk is drive by shooting, and if you are inside its safe

Disgusting. The people who are looting need to be thrown into prison...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 05:05:40 PM by ElliotViolin »
Quote
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
- Philosopher John Stuart Mill, from a Parliamentary debate (May 31, 1866);

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: London Riots
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 07:17:07 PM »
such a pity.  hateful people who act like animals at any excuse.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6639
  • Darwins +527/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: London Riots
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 07:41:02 PM »
There'll be some bargains on Ebay though ;)
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Brakeman

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1243
  • Darwins +47/-3
  • Gender: Male
Re: London Riots
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 09:20:13 PM »
It all started because after a teenage boy shot an armed response police officer, the police shot and killed him.

Mark Duggan was 29 years old, from what I read, not a teenager, and not a good guy either.
Quite the thug.

If England wanted to ship them to Texas, I'm sure the Texas judicial system could handle them, and for a discount too. As long as GB will supply the Lethal injection drugs.
Help find the cure for FUNDAMENTIA !

Offline plethora

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3456
  • Darwins +60/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Metalhead, Family Man, IT Admin & Anti-Theist \m/
Re: London Riots
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2011, 03:37:40 AM »
I just got back from 3 weeks in the US and this is what I come home to? Disgraceful  >:(

I live just outside the greater London area but there has been some looting about 5 miles from where I live.

I am starting to think the government should deploy some troops to the most affected areas asap.

This reminds me of a movie quote ... agent Kay from Men in Black:
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline EV

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
  • Darwins +52/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Philosopher, Atheist, Musician, Philanthropist
    • My Website
Re: London Riots
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 04:29:45 AM »
It all started because after a teenage boy shot an armed response police officer, the police shot and killed him.

Mark Duggan was 29 years old, from what I read, not a teenager, and not a good guy either.
Quite the thug.

Oh oops, my bad. Sorry!

Yeah, it is unacceptable...





Such acts of human barbarism in nothing other than the Capital City of our country... This is utterly disgusting. We need the army on the streets tonight.
Quote
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
- Philosopher John Stuart Mill, from a Parliamentary debate (May 31, 1866);

Offline bosey926

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1039
  • Darwins +8/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: London Riots
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 05:20:19 AM »
^^^That's what I have been wondering.  Why has your folks government been so damn liberal about this?  These, for the majority, aren't distressed persons pushed to the brink by the system and forced to rebel.  It is a bunch of asinine criminals exploiting one incident, where one of their fellow rubbish level criminals (who was unlikely ever to be cured with rehab) got what he had coming.  Fuck them. 
     They are destroying historic businesses and buildings, and costings millions in expenses to the criminal justice system.  If my republican ass had any form of power over there I would have called in the military to use rubber bullets and put an end to this immediately. 

Offline kin hell

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5379
  • Darwins +152/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • - .... . .-. . /.. ... / -. --- / --. --- -.. ...
Re: London Riots
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2011, 06:20:18 AM »
A cynic might suggest that a year out from the olympics is a perfect time to allow the pressure cooker some release and a perfect excuse to "learn" from the event and gain public support for the arbitrary introduction of drastically  stricter security measures.

Individuals acting appallingly?   ......below the shallow surface, the monkey lurks.

Opportunistic thieves thieving?  .....how surprising really? The filthy and corrupt[1] rich haven't fully cornered that market yet, this is just small scale variation of the exact same behaviour.
 
In past times, the peasants stormed the castles, (while still doing terrible mindless things to one another at the same time).
Now the castles are gated communities or isolated mansions patrolled by private security or other rarefied levels of separation, so now where do the peasants revolt?
Down at street amongst themselves and amidst the merchants and against the police (themselves who've long since been subverted from the duty of protecting the people to the more important tasks of protecting property and wealth.

The comfortably wealthy must be pretty stupid to believe that the disparity between their position and that of the people who are doing it hard, is not noticed and resented.

Is it really any wonder that this happens when we are but monkey cousins with all the social shit throwing skills of monkeys?

and bosey would you like to back this piece of  rightwing vomit
Quote from: bosey926
who was unlikely ever to be cured with rehab) got what he had coming

with some evidence, or is that just your bigoted trash opinion being voiced?
 1. not all the rich, I am talking about the "power corrupts" rich
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline bosey926

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1039
  • Darwins +8/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: London Riots
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 06:55:10 AM »
^^^Well granted, the 29 year old criminal who fired a gun at a police officer and was killed in self defense and in defense of the public, technically would have had a snowball's chance in non-existent hell at turning around in prison had he lived.  So I do retract the portion where I said unlikely to be cured, but not about what he got what he had coming.  All of the videos I have watch describe him as a criminal and then say the police fired back in self defense on a traffic stop.  Yes he got what he had coming.  Here is one of them:
Quote
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44070240/ns/today-today_news/t/cops-londons-streets-rioting-worsens-violence-spreads-other-cities/#.TkEdj2FWSwg

Offline kin hell

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5379
  • Darwins +152/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • - .... . .-. . /.. ... / -. --- / --. --- -.. ...
Re: London Riots
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 09:07:18 AM »
^^^Well granted, the 29 year old criminal who fired a gun at a police officer and was killed in self defense and in defense of the public, technically would have had a snowball's chance in non-existent hell at turning around in prison had he lived.  So I do retract the portion where I said unlikely to be cured, but not about what he got what he had coming.  All of the videos I have watch describe him as a criminal and then say the police fired back in self defense on a traffic stop.  Yes he got what he had coming.  Here is one of them:
Quote
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44070240/ns/today-today_news/t/cops-londons-streets-rioting-worsens-violence-spreads-other-cities/#.TkEdj2FWSwg

Yeah  regarding what they all say   ...the survivors get to tell their side of it, and the dead guy can't really present his case can he.
 Wonderful how you just unconditionally accept the "official" story when it enables you to enthusiastically display your inner self so clearly.

Marching in step, condemning the bloke before he's even proven to be guilty or innocent.
Of course you choose to live in a make believe world where the police would never lie (not that I am saying they lied) to protect themselves against a "bad" action and it's consequences, nor do they ever make mistakes. RIP Jean Charles de Menezes
 
No you'd just prefer to jump on the opportunity of being involved in the drama so you can express such posturing automatic judgement on someone of whom you know absolutely nothing.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 09:13:07 AM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline jedweber

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3791
  • Darwins +19/-0
  • Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
Re: London Riots
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 09:08:22 AM »
^^^Well granted, the 29 year old criminal who fired a gun at a police officer and was killed in self defense...

Not that this is any excuse for rioting and looting, but from what I have read, your claim hasn't been established at all, in fact, it seems to be contradicted by the evidence: 

Quote
The Guardian reported on Monday that initial ballistics tests on a bullet found lodged in a firearms officer's police radio was a police-issue bullet – indicating that Duggan had not opened fire at the officer.

Here's more:

Quote
Met should disclose facts behind Mark Duggan's death
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/met-communications-department-mark-duggan


Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2685
  • Darwins +76/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: London Riots
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 10:18:18 AM »
I was listening to the BBC on my local NPR station this morning and they were talking about this. They spoke with a couple of people asking what the take was on what the riots are all about. Most of the adults interviewed described it as "mindless". The PM stated that it was "straight up criminality", whatever that's supposed to mean. However, when the reporters talked to a couple of teens there on the street the answer was a little more specific. At least from the kids point of view, they blame the government...the conservatives, for the economic disparity. They said they were speaking out against the rich. When the reporter pointed out that they were looting and burning local shops they explained that, "yes, rich people like business owners and such, they don't deserve what they have" and that they are showing the police that they can do whatever they want.

These kids sounded like they were about 13. I realize that two kids do not make a representative whole but their view on why this is happening is pretty political and coming from the left.

Is this a class warfare riot?
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline plethora

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3456
  • Darwins +60/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Metalhead, Family Man, IT Admin & Anti-Theist \m/
Re: London Riots
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 10:51:33 AM »
Is this a class warfare riot?

No. They're stupid kids caught in a copycat wave of stupid violence.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6639
  • Darwins +527/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: London Riots
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 03:12:26 PM »
These kids sounded like they were about 13. I realize that two kids do not make a representative whole but their view on why this is happening is pretty political and coming from the left.

Is this a class warfare riot?
Whilst it's good of you to credit British 13-17 year olds with some awareness, I'm afraid that the girls you heard (I heard them too) were pretty representative and as thick as they come.

The matter of the guy shot by police is not an issue any more - looted iPhones, etc are.

However, it is looking bad for the police offer who shot the guy. The evidence is stacking up against him (see post above.) Police officer fired twice/ one bullet in dead man/another police issue bullet in the police radio/ dead man's gun not fired.

More riots are taking place tonight in other cities.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: London Riots
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 03:45:45 PM »
Tommorow you're homeless, tonight it's a blast
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline bosey926

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1039
  • Darwins +8/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: London Riots
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2011, 06:13:09 PM »
^^^Well granted, the 29 year old criminal who fired a gun at a police officer and was killed in self defense...

Not that this is any excuse for rioting and looting, but from what I have read, your claim hasn't been established at all, in fact, it seems to be contradicted by the evidence: 

Quote
The Guardian reported on Monday that initial ballistics tests on a bullet found lodged in a firearms officer's police radio was a police-issue bullet – indicating that Duggan had not opened fire at the officer.

Here's more:

Quote
Met should disclose facts behind Mark Duggan's death
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/met-communications-department-mark-duggan

^^^Thanks for the story.  I was looking for an opposition viewpoint this morning and couldn't find one.  Ergo my incorrect position before.  I stand corrected...he perhaps was shot by the police officer without cause.    We'll see where the investigation leads.  Although at the end of your source
Quote
In the Duggan case, for instance, while the IPCC has now '"categorically refuted'" rumours that Duggan was shot by police "execution style", it has failed to categorically confirm that the bullet in the radio was a police bullet or offer clarification about the circumstances in which the gun was found at the scene.
     So perhaps The Guardian's source is full of shit too.

Offline Gnu Ordure

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3832
  • Darwins +109/-9
  • Gender: Male
Re: London Riots
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2011, 07:05:55 PM »
Cameron and the police must be very happy. They were on the ropes a couple of weeks ago because of the phone-hacking scandal (London's top two police officers had just resigned). Now they get the chance to act tough on feral eleven-year-olds looting Xboxes, and the whole country will swing back to the Right. Damn.

This isn't a revolution, like the very real revolutions going on in Libya or Syria, where people are fighting (and dying) for freedom. There don't seem to be any leaders or any ideology involved. But it's hard to say what it is, or what it means - if anything.


Offline jedweber

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3791
  • Darwins +19/-0
  • Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
Re: London Riots
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2011, 07:31:36 PM »
^ Here's another view. This West Indian-born British broadcaster thinks there is deeper significance to the riots, and the BBC news reader apparently doesn't like what she hears: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=biJgILxGK0o

Offline Gnu Ordure

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3832
  • Darwins +109/-9
  • Gender: Male
Re: London Riots
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2011, 08:27:46 PM »
Heh-heh. Fiona Armstrong should not have messed with Darcus. Loved his response to being accused of being a rioter himself (he was arrested and tried for rioting in 1970, but acquitted, as Fiona should have known):

I have never taken part in a single riot. I've been on demonstrations that ended up in a conflict. And have some respect for an old West Indian negro, and stop accusing me of being a rioter. Because I...you don't want to get abusive. You sound idiotic. Have some respect.

Pwned. Darcus is a cool guy. Not only is he the nephew of CLR James, but Linton Kwesi Johnson wrote a song about him:



I'm not sure he's right about these riots though; they may have started as race-related in London, but the copy-cat riots in other cities aren't referencing that incident at all.

Gnu.

PS btw, does anyone want to buy a 42" plasma TV? Slightly burned.

Offline jedweber

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3791
  • Darwins +19/-0
  • Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
Re: London Riots
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2011, 11:48:51 PM »
Wow, thanks for that link. I have that album buried away somewhere, probably haven't heard it in 15 or 20 years, so I didn't make the connection...

Offline natlegend

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1656
  • Darwins +65/-0
  • Polyatheist
Re: London Riots
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2011, 01:28:34 AM »
I must admit I'm truly surprised by these opportunists. And so many of them! I wonder, if this happened in Australia, would it play out the same? Oh, but then we did have this, but it wasn't quite the same thing I think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

Quote
On 4 December 2005, a group of volunteer surf lifesavers were assaulted by a group of young men of Middle Eastern appearance, with several other violent assaults occurring over the next week. These incidents were widely reported and commented on in Sydney media. An initially peaceful crowd gathered in the morning of 11 December 2005 and by midday, approximately 5,000 people gathered at Cronulla beach to protest against a recent spate of violence against locals.
However, fuelled by alcohol, the crowd turned to violence when a young man of “Middle Eastern appearance” was spotted on the beach. He was surrounded by a crowd outside a local hotel and attacked. Retaliatory riots also took place that night and on subsequent nights, resulting in extensive property damage and several more assaults, including one stabbing and even some attacks against ambulance and police officers.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline rickymooston

Re: London Riots
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2011, 12:39:39 PM »
Yeah  regarding what they all say   ...the survivors get to tell their side of it, and the dead guy can't really present his case can he.
 Wonderful how you just unconditionally accept the "official" story when it enables you to enthusiastically display your inner self so clearly.

Have you heard an alternative story? (Is there any post I should have read in thread?)

Anyway, I'm certainly in agreement that if he pulled out a gun and started firing at police, he got what he had coming. I can't think of a reasonable reason to conclude that firing at police is o.k. The story could have ended with a dead police officer or dead bi-standers. This doesn't mean I think police officers shouldn't aim to avoid killing somebody if a safe alternative exists. I wasn't there and again, assuming the police officers didn't invent the gun, ...

In general, I'm not of the opinion that Brits are 'too liberal'. I support the right of police officers to defend themselves.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 12:42:30 PM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.