Author Topic: Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]  (Read 5079 times)

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Online jaimehlers

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2011, 11:40:33 AM »
Omen:  This is exactly why I wasn't interested in bringing this topic back up.  You aren't interested in listening; I tried to explain where I was coming from in the first place, why I acted the way I did and why doing so was mistaken, and all you did was try to prove that you didn't do anything wrong, that it was only mean ol' Jaime who was at fault, etc, etc.

So I'm done here.  There's only so much of this kind of thing I'm willing to take from anyone, especially when they've been dishing it out from the start.  This thread is where it belongs, and I'm more than happy to leave you to it.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2011, 11:46:53 AM »
Omen:  This is exactly why I wasn't interested in bringing this topic back up.  You aren't interested in listening; I tried to explain where I was coming from in the first place, why I acted the way I did and why doing so was mistaken, and all you did was try to prove that you didn't do anything wrong, that it was only mean ol' Jaime who was at fault, etc, etc.

So I'm done here.  There's only so much of this kind of thing I'm willing to take from anyone, especially when they've been dishing it out from the start.  This thread is where it belongs, and I'm more than happy to leave you to it.

And I quote:

Actually, forcing you to engage openly helps hold you accountable to a community of your peers.  Not doing so places no social burden upon you to behave at least marginally within the bounds of reason, which your first post wasn't worth consideration and was you regurgitating the same idiotic pleading dismissals you offered to everyone else here.  I'd rather have you treat me like shit openly, rather then insulting me privately with such irrational bullshit.


Jaime, you don't possess the moral high ground because I called you a coward for not addressing me publicly.  That is also not an ad hominem, I'm not tying your behavior as a coward to your ability to argue for a point.  I'm just insulting you because you deserve it, for being a chicken shit mealy mouthed coward.  See, not a single fuck was given. I will post the PMs as soon as I am able to access them.

See Jaime, I don't care.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline rickymooston

Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2011, 08:44:27 PM »
Omen, for the record, I checked your posts in the discussion with jaimers. It was painful spending 2 hours going over all of said posts to get to the gist of what you were arguing about.

I provisionally agree with you that mother Teressa may have been, if the sources Screwtape quoted were correct a sadist.  This is conditional on Screwtape's source, a nun from her order, claiming she used no pain killers. Screwtape said something that suggested to me that his source still came through Hicthens who isn't in my opinion an unbiased source. The accusations against Mother Teressa are very serious ones and I would accord anybody in her position the highest benefits of the doubt. Whether or not she was a heartless sadist, many people do in fact tend to the dying in a compassionate way and enjoy their work. What they enjoy about their work isn't that these people are dying but the realization that without their intervention, the people involved would die alone and unloved.

I know something about pallative care. My dad had this. Of coruse, my dad had pain killers. Again, the idea of somebody not offering pain killers, certainly is cause for alarm, if the claim is true. Whether or not such a person is medically a sadist (or sociapath or whatever), I can't say but I'd call them some uncomplimentary things.

Your original post was perfectly reasonable and I found it perfectly reasonable without you having any impressive credentials. That said, you would not be qualified to make a medical diagnosis on this but your claim may well have "a reasonable" probability of being true. I still don't consider it unreasonable for jaime to consider your claim a diagnosis and to ask about your credentials. There is a reason that people demand a doctor to make diagnosis and that is lay people can frequently get it wrong.

For the record, and I reserve the possibility of my memory of over a year ago to be wrong, I vaguely recall discussing credentials in the past with you and believe that while you may have worked with the mentally ill that you don't in fact have a degree. At least, that was true when i last intereacted with you. I definitely do think, that you are certainly better on the subject than most. I apologize if my memory is in error and in fact your credentials are more. It was over a year ago that I'd discussed such things with you and i"ve since intereacted with many users on this forum.

This may not qualify by your standards as an apology but its the best you are going to get. I know you will get into a huff about this because you are that sort of guy. Huff away.

I consider your insistance that all posts be in public and by peer review, very silly and over done. Sometimes private messages aid in clearing up misunderstandings. Again, you are free to demand whatever form of communication you wish. And you can even block PMs if they bother you so much.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 08:49:26 PM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2011, 08:58:24 PM »
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline rickymooston

Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2011, 09:04:25 PM »

I didn't say ..

Sorry Ricky, we can't even speak about the subject without a professionally trained individual.

This post doesn't deserve a response, although it has humour value.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2011, 09:05:47 PM »

I didn't say ..

Sorry Ricky, we can't even speak about the subject without a professionally trained individual.

This post doesn't deserve a response, although it has humour value.

Then none of your post deserve a response, although it has a humour value.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline rickymooston

Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2011, 09:21:23 PM »
Then none of your post deserve a response, although it has a humour value.

Your post seems to be implying that I implied every response requires a "specialist". I never said that.

However, you made what sounded like a medical diagnosis. As a non specialist, you can make said claim but while most reasonable people may agree with the sentiment, it is probably subject to some reasonable doubt. I agree that, if mother Teressa intensionally withheld pain killers from dying patients that she meets the popular description of a sadist and indeed the term b*tch too.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2011, 09:23:44 PM »
Then none of your post deserve a response, although it has a humour value.

Your ..

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of your lack of credentials.

There could be something wrong with my reasoning with this, but you don't seem to recognize what I've been repeating over and over and over in this thread.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline rickymooston

Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2011, 09:32:27 PM »
There could be something wrong with my reasoning with this, but you don't seem to recognize what I've been repeating over and over and over in this thread.

Some conclusions require credentials to be credible. Others don't. An objective diagnosis is an example of something where experience/expertise can make a difference.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2011, 09:36:01 PM »
There could be something wrong with my reasoning with this, but you don't seem to recognize what I've been repeating over and over and over in this thread.

Some concl

Nope, by the status of not possessing credentials you are not only wrong, but we cannot in anyway have any discussion on the subject.  We cannot have a discussion to any extent, we can't ask questions, we can't research, we can't even consider what is an objective diagnosis, and we can't do anything at all that is antithetical to a supposed condition I wish to impose on a whim because of your lack of credentials.

Still not getting it are you?

Are you enjoying being treated like you treat others?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 09:40:15 PM by Omen »
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline rickymooston

Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2011, 09:58:05 PM »
Are you enjoying being treated like you treat others?

I didn't treat anybody like this. I simply said, he was in his rights to ask.

Had I made your post and he made the request to me, I'd have said, "Jaime, I'm not a medical doctor, if it matters to you but I've worked with many mentally ill patients and any idiot can read the DSM".

When people have asked me about mine, I've also been pretty honest about them. They are not particularly impressive.

Sometimes credentials matter and other times they don't. It depends on the question asked.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline rickymooston

Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2011, 07:10:39 AM »
Are you enjoying being treated like you treat others?

I didn't treat anybody like this. I simply said, he was in his rights to ask. I've never censored your points or anybody else's based on a lack of qualifications.

However, there definitely exist questions where the perspective of an expert is best sought. Contexts exist where authority matters. Subtleties exist.

And again, you were making a pretty serious accusation against the late nun. Its possible your conclusion is justified. Again, if Screwtapes (or really Hitchen's facts were correct, I'd be in agreement with you.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2011, 09:26:23 AM »
I didn't treat anybody like this.

Yes, you did.

You made a dismissal without explanation, while at the same time smiting me as you asked for 'clarity'.  You insisted you explained, while not explaining, until you were goaded into actually half ass explaining later and made the admission that you really didn't read everything anyway.  You then expected me to respond to your baseless accusatory assertions, constantly building up a series of increasingly idiotic suppositions about me and my positions that were already plain in the text that you obviously did not read in this thread in the first place.

I'm treating you like shit, because you treated me like shit.  Its the fair thing to do.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline rickymooston

Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2011, 05:34:08 PM »
Omen, I wonder if you have any friends. I hope your personality in person isn't as aggressive as it is online.

You frequently make some good debating points but are you an effective communicator? Its not for me to judge but for you to ask yourself.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2011, 05:42:16 PM »
Omen, I wonder if you have any friends. I hope your personality in person isn't as aggressive as it is online.

Ricky, I wonder if you have any friends.  I hope your personality in person isn't marred by your tendency to make pejorative character assassinations unjustly as it is online.

Quote
You frequently make some good debating points but are you an effective communicator? Its not for me to judge but for you to ask yourself.

You frequently make specious debating points, often in the guise of poorly worded devil's advocate, rarely bothering to return to what you might have said unfairly or to take responsibility much less to answer what kind of an effective communicator this makes you in turn?  Its not for me to judge, but for you to ask yourself.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Avatar Of Belial

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2011, 03:17:04 PM »
Ok... well... tempers have exploded around here... this calls for puppies.





"You play make-believe every day of your life, and yet you have no concept of 'imagination'."
I do not have "faith" in science. I have expectations of science. "Faith" in something is an unfounded assertion, whereas reasonable expectations require a precedent.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2011, 03:31:04 PM »
Urge.. to.. smite.. for puppies.. cynicism.. AAARGh!
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline curiousgirl

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2011, 03:41:52 PM »
^^^LOL
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline rickymooston

Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2011, 05:19:56 PM »
Puppies engage in many logical fallacies.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Omen

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Re: "Four questions for atheists" blog post [#2578]
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2011, 04:06:35 PM »
Puppies engage in many logical fallacies.

Hey Ricky!  Sort of like you right?  I would hope the puppies would at least be more responsible and apologetic than you are.

Ricky, I wonder if you have any friends.  I hope your personality in person isn't marred by your tendency to make pejorative character assassinations unjustly as it is online.

You frequently make specious debating points, often in the guise of poorly worded devil's advocate, rarely bothering to return to what you might have said unfairly or to take responsibility much less to answer what kind of an effective communicator this makes you in turn?  Its not for me to judge, but for you to ask yourself.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me