Author Topic: Is atheism the default position?  (Read 28935 times)

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Offline Alzael

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #493 on: December 04, 2011, 09:39:18 PM »
@ Aaron THERE'S NO EVIL BAD GOD! THERE'S ONLY ONE GOD AND HE IS PURE RIGHTOUSENESS! Geez what kind of stupid question is that!?! EVIL and Bad came from Satan and Satan is not a God but a Child of God created by God himself but failed God because of his pride and arrogance.

So the god of pure righteousness created a being of evil.........riiiiight.

Ten quatloos says he doesn't pick up on the flaws in this.
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #494 on: December 04, 2011, 09:44:10 PM »
@ Aaron THERE'S NO EVIL BAD GOD! THERE'S ONLY ONE GOD AND HE IS PURE RIGHTOUSENESS! Geez what kind of stupid question is that!?! EVIL and Bad came from Satan and Satan is not a God but a Child of God created by God himself but failed God because of his pride and arrogance.

I was asking a hypothetical question.  "Hypothetical" meaning, to speculate, to ask 'what if'.  I am asking WHAT IF, "If" being the key word.  What would happen IF god was bad?  You keep saying god is good, but the label "good" is only meaningful if there is a "bad" to compare it to.

Again; what is the difference between the actions of a good god, and the action of a bad god?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #495 on: December 04, 2011, 10:06:00 PM »
as crazy as your question sound to me by putting God into a hypothetical question, i will however, for the sake of making you understand, asnwer your question.

the actions between a good and bad god is by knowing the meaning of Good and Bad. when you know, it's their opposites that counters one another therefore all that is good is good and all that is bad is bad.

Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #496 on: December 04, 2011, 10:07:11 PM »
@ Alzeal for the millionth time God did not create evil he created Satan and Satan rebelled thus evil came to existence. technically, it was Satan who created evil.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #497 on: December 04, 2011, 10:13:00 PM »
as crazy as your question sound to me by putting God into a hypothetical question, i will however, for the sake of making you understand, asnwer your question.

the actions between a good and bad god is by knowing the meaning of Good and Bad. when you know, it's their opposites that counters one another therefore all that is good is good and all that is bad is bad.

What a pathetic, worthless, meaningless, disappointing, useless excuse of an answer.  I asked a question, and all you gave me in return was word salad.

Perhaps you didn't understand the question; what is the action of a bad god?  In other words; if god was bad, what types of actions would he commit?  How would a bad god react to Adam and Eve munching from the tree of knowledge?  Would a bad god order someone to kill his son?  Does a bad god have a prayer service?  If so, how would it work, as opposed to the service's of a good god?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #498 on: December 04, 2011, 10:33:04 PM »
@ Alzeal for the millionth time God did not create evil he created Satan and Satan rebelled thus evil came to existence. technically, it was Satan who created evil.

No, Satan created evil. But technically it was god who was responible for it. He created everything, including Satan. He created Satan with the ability to rebel and commit evil. He knew that Satan would turn bad and create evil ,because he is all-knowing. He allowed evil to exist because he could have simply willed it away. He allowed Satan to bring evil to us because he could have simply not allowed it to happen. He could have made us incapable of committing evil, but he didn't.

So yes, god did create evil. He chose not stop evil. He also allowed it to perpetuate.

You see that's the problem with an all-powerful god. Ultimately everything is his fault.

By the way, I'm still waiting for your answers from before as well. I'm sure they'll come easily to you.
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Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #499 on: December 04, 2011, 10:41:37 PM »
@ Alzeal lmao to "What a pathetic, worthless, meaningless, disappointing, useless excuse of an answer."

and for the trillionth time God did NOT create evil it was Satan. God created Satan as one of the TOP angels but because of he gave Satan immense power almost to that of God, Satan rebelled because He cannot handle the awesomeness of God's power. Ever wonder why the Jews keep failing God because they cannot handle it as well. God's power is ultimate and is prone to arrogance and pride if you don't know how to control it. Only God can handle his own powers with love and tenderness. The rest, well, they jus go FUNCT!

Offline Alzael

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #500 on: December 04, 2011, 10:48:12 PM »
@ Alzeal lmao to "What a pathetic, worthless, meaningless, disappointing, useless excuse of an answer."

and for the trillionth time God did NOT create evil it was Satan. God created Satan as one of the TOP angels but because of he gave Satan immense power almost to that of God, Satan rebelled because He cannot handle the awesomeness of God's power. Ever wonder why the Jews keep failing God because they cannot handle it as well. God's power is ultimate and is prone to arrogance and pride if you don't know how to control it. Only God can handle his own powers with love and tenderness. The rest, well, they jus go FUNCT!

Does not address what was said. You in no way addressed the chain of logic that showed that god is responsible for evil. You just tossed out a series of claims that you didn't bother to support. I've still easily shown how god created evil. The question that remains is can you actually refute it with a logical argument.....or any argument.

Go back and give it one more go. You can make up something better than this, I'm sure of it.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #501 on: December 04, 2011, 10:51:30 PM »
@ Alzeal do you even know what logic means? what you posit there are mere accusations. i jus explained who creaeted evil and you made a non-sense response.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #502 on: December 04, 2011, 11:00:31 PM »
and for the trillionth time God did NOT create evil it was Satan. God created Satan as one of the TOP angels but because of he gave Satan immense power almost to that of God, Satan rebelled because He cannot handle the awesomeness of God's power. Ever wonder why the Jews keep failing God because they cannot handle it as well. God's power is ultimate and is prone to arrogance and pride if you don't know how to control it. Only God can handle his own powers with love and tenderness. The rest, well, they jus go FUNCT!

Thank you Lance. This was very informative. I love history and now I know exactly where evil came from. And I can see where being only semi-awesome could cause a guy to go FUNCT. Especially if one was an angel. And angels are necessary, because even though your god is omnipotent and a few other cool things, he still needs helpers, even some TOP helpers, and I guess the rest of them are handling being semi-awesome because I don't know any of their names, nor am I twice as evil like I would be if two TOP angels rebelled because they couldn't handle the awesomeness.

Being a christian must be real cool because you have all this inside info, and I'm guessing you know a lot more you aren't allowed to tell us. Of course I have to stay evil and stuff because I can't handle not being awesome very well, so, well, I hate to admit this, but sometimes, since I am so evil, I do things like not buy the beer in the beer commercials and once I didn't recycle two cans and yea, I can be pretty bad. But hey, I gotta admit I'm secretly proud of my evil streak, and you can hardly blame me. Being one of Satan's peeps is so cool. Of course I wish I was also jewish, because that would make me even cooler in the eyes of satan, but pray as I might, god apparently won't let me.

Or I'm full of shit.

Please tell me you don't work in the office of the Governor of Montana. I'd have to leave before morning just to get the taste out of my mouth and I'm too sleepy to drive.
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #503 on: December 04, 2011, 11:06:01 PM »
@ Alzeal lmao to "What a pathetic, worthless, meaningless, disappointing, useless excuse of an answer."

From this, I know you've seen my post and the question restated in it.  I'm not going to let up on this until you finally answer it in a meaningful way.

What is the action of an bad/evil god?

Do not just say "good is good, bad is bad",  give examples.  You could start with something like "A bad god would do ________________" or "A bad god would not do _______________"
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #504 on: December 04, 2011, 11:14:35 PM »
lol@ Aaron the action of an evil bad god is to do what is NOT good! Geez! i can't believe i have to make a respone

@ Parkingplaces Your point being?

I work at the Straushinburg Governor's Office - i'm the Chief of Staff. any questions?

Offline Astreja

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #505 on: December 04, 2011, 11:16:21 PM »
BECAUSE GOD CREATED US FOR A REASON - HIS REASON...
What would a god need with a spaceship bunch of humans?

And so much for that "free will" scheisse.  If our ultimate purpose for existence is to fulfill some god's plan, we are but pawns on a cosmic chessboard -- In a game where the god in question occasionally moves the pawns into harm's way or tosses them over its shoulder into the fireplace.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #506 on: December 04, 2011, 11:19:28 PM »

@ Parkingplaces Your point being?

I work at the Straushinburg Governor's Office - i'm the Chief of Staff. any questions?

No point. You?

I love people who work places that can't be googled. It makes them so mysterious.
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #507 on: December 04, 2011, 11:21:00 PM »
lol@ Aaron the action of an evil bad god is to do what is NOT good! Geez! i can't believe i have to make a respone

As I've said:

Give examples!

Don't just say "bad is to do what's not good", give examples of such things.  This is what I've been asking all along.  What would a bad god DO?  How would this be different than the action of a good god?

This should be an easy question to answer, but so far, all I've seen is obfuscation.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #508 on: December 04, 2011, 11:21:25 PM »
lol@google. you actually did tht. i was kidding. LOL!

Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #509 on: December 04, 2011, 11:22:47 PM »
a bad god would first smoke out satan thus proving to himself that he made a mistake by creating him in the first place. there you go! any more?

Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #510 on: December 04, 2011, 11:24:48 PM »
@ Astreja what's you point or question?

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #511 on: December 04, 2011, 11:25:08 PM »
the actions between a good and bad god is by knowing the meaning of Good and Bad. when you know, it's their opposites that counters one another therefore all that is good is good and all that is bad is bad.
This in no way answers the question that Aaron asked.  It's in essence saying, "once you know what good is, then you know what God is", and that's utterly useless for anything.  How do you define what is good?  If you believe God is a real entity, you cannot define good as being God, because concepts are not beings.  To put it another way, a being that really exists cannot be perfect.  Not even God.

You already admitted this, by saying that God didn't want anyone to know that he had made a mistake with Satan.  A being which makes mistakes is not perfect by definition.  Meaning, if he can make one mistake, he can make more than one.  And he cannot be perfectly good, because he is not perfect.  It is really that simple, and no amount of verbal or mental gymnastics can get around the fact that you, personally, believe God screwed up.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #512 on: December 04, 2011, 11:26:34 PM »
a bad god would first smoke out satan thus proving to himself that he made a mistake by creating him in the first place. there you go! any more?

I think we need to use the direct approach here.

Would an evil god flood a planet?

Would an evil god insist that someone kill a child as a test of loyalty?

Would an evil god create a place of eternal punishment?

I say "Yes" to all three.  Lance, what do you have to say on these points?
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #513 on: December 04, 2011, 11:28:03 PM »
@ Astreja what's you point or question?

Simply this:  What possible "purpose" could your alleged god have such that it requires humans to fulfill it?
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Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #514 on: December 04, 2011, 11:28:49 PM »
an evil good won't flood the planet because people are doing evil which he likes.

an evil god won't test someones loyalty because he doesn't care about the truth

an evil god won't create punishment because he doesn't care whether his children learn or not.

anymore, Asteja?

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #515 on: December 04, 2011, 11:33:58 PM »
lol@google. you actually did tht. i was kidding. LOL!

Just a little word of advise. Jokes loose their effectiveness when everything you say is one.
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #516 on: December 04, 2011, 11:37:30 PM »
an evil good won't flood the planet because people are doing evil which he likes.

Flooding a planet would destroy a lot more than the people doing evil.  The flood story in Genesis reveals an incompetent god that couldn't think of a better way to deal with its problems.

Quote
an evil god won't test someones loyalty because he doesn't care about the truth.

Nonsense.  Absolute nonsense.  A good god simply would not put a child's life on the line as a loyalty test; in fact, it could undoubtedly come up with a myriad of better ways to do the test, such as sending the test candidate on a difficult quest.

Quote
an evil god won't create punishment because he doesn't care whether his children learn or not.

In Christian mythology, there is supposedly no escape from hell.  The "learning" appears to consist of infinite suffering.  This is an appallingly stupid way to "teach" anything, and any god that would create a hell is infinitely evil, even if only one being is condemned there for eternity.
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #517 on: December 04, 2011, 11:37:44 PM »
a bad god would first smoke out satan thus proving to himself that he made a mistake by creating him in the first place. there you go! any more?

I believe the words I used before was "pathetic, worthless, meaningless, disappointing, useless excuse of an answer".  It was true back then, and it's true now.  Satan is suppose to be eeeeeeeeevil; so "smok[ing] out Satan" sounds like it would be A Good Thing.  Especially since the only 'bad thing' about this is that god would get his poor widdle ego bruised.  God's supposed to be a big boy, but you paint him as a big baby for not being able to accept one little mistake, let alone doing something about it.

Speaking of babies, it sounds like I need to take babies steps with you about my question.  Instead of asking what would a bad god do, maybe I need to help you by pointing out examples of your "good god" in action, and ask what "bad god" would do instead.

What would "bad god" do in reaction to Adam and Eve eating from the tree of knowledge?

"Good god" ordered a man to kill his son as a test of character.  Would "bad god" do such a thing?  Yes or no.  If yes, then how is it different?  If no, then why?

"Good god" ordered the slaughter of everyone already living in the promised land to make room for his chosen ones.  What would "bad god" have done instead?

"Good god" once killed a baby sired by King David.  Would "bad god" have done this?  Yes or no.  If yes, then how is it different?  If no, then why?


EDIT: I typed this up before seeing Astreja's posts.  I see she posted some of the same questions.  I'd still like to see the rest answered.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 11:41:54 PM by Aaron123 »
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #518 on: December 04, 2011, 11:39:45 PM »
@ Alzeal do you even know what logic means? what you posit there are mere accusations. i jus explained who creaeted evil and you made a non-sense response.

No I did not. I made a series of logical statements which show that god must be held responsible for evil. Yes, you did explain who created evil. However your explanation did not in anyway refute my statements.

The point still remains that god is the one who holds all of the blame for evil and it's creation. Unless you can actually provide an argument that refutes it.

I'll repeat.

No, Satan created evil. But technically it was god who was responible for it. He created everything, including Satan. He created Satan with the ability to rebel and commit evil. He knew that Satan would turn bad and create evil ,because he is all-knowing. He allowed evil to exist because he could have simply willed it away. He allowed Satan to bring evil to us because he could have simply not allowed it to happen. He could have made us incapable of committing evil, but he didn't.

So yes, god did create evil. He chose not stop evil. He also allowed it to perpetuate.

You see that's the problem with an all-powerful god. Ultimately everything is his fault.

This is the part where you actuallly make an argument that refutes the points I made. Or admit that you can't and concede the points made.

Or you can keep dodging around every point that I make and provide me with more amusement as I laugh at how bad you are at forming any kind of coherent thought.

By the way, still waiting on the others as well. You will be getting to them eventually right? Surely you're not using this tangent as a lame excuse to get away from responding to them, right?
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Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #519 on: December 04, 2011, 11:41:14 PM »
smoking out Satan thus proved God made a mistake which is why God didn't kill Satan in the first place. get it!

Offline Alzael

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #520 on: December 04, 2011, 11:43:38 PM »
smoking out Satan thus proved God made a mistake which is why God didn't kill Satan in the first place. get it!

So god allowed evil to continue to exist. This would not seem to be the kind of thing that a good god would do, don't you think? A good god would want to stop evil. For that matter, why would god need to kill Satan? He could just snap his fingers and make Satan good again.

You should really actually think before you open type these things.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
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Offline Lance

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Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #521 on: December 04, 2011, 11:43:51 PM »
@ Alzeal God created Satan not evil. Satan created evil by rebelling agasinst God. It's like you raised a child to be good but because of peer pressure your child ends up drinking. are you to blame because of peer pressure! NO!