Author Topic: Is atheism the default position?  (Read 29323 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Emergence

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
  • Darwins +5/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • do i look impressed?
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #174 on: August 08, 2011, 01:55:19 PM »
I have to ask if you looked at any of my subsequent posts, or if you made the same error he did of assuming that my original post must naturally reflect all of my subsequent posts. 

Q: Do you or don't you think that it is important to discuss the validity of the use of the word "atheism" regarding the "default position" of the unknowing human mind?
Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal.
Arthur Schopenhauer

EurekAlert - Science News / Public Library of Science / Scholarpedia

Online jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5274
  • Darwins +603/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #175 on: August 08, 2011, 02:34:23 PM »
Q: Do you or don't you think that it is important to discuss the validity of the use of the word "atheism" regarding the "default position" of the unknowing human mind?
You know, I asked you at least one question before this.  A while back, I got told by someone else that it's bad form here to answer questions with questions.  Now, I don't care about that, but I do think it's fair to expect my question to be answered.

Besides, I already answered your question, though not in so many words.  I think that your statement about how using 'atheist' to describe newborns was the widest possible definition of the word was a good point, because the widest possible definition of something is also not particularly useful in a discussion.  That is what I was trying to get at through most of my posts.  I also did not want to get into a pedantic argument about precisely what terminology should be used.

Offline Emergence

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
  • Darwins +5/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • do i look impressed?
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #176 on: August 08, 2011, 02:36:17 PM »
Just because i am curious: What question did you ask me?

Edit: Oh, you mean the question about reading your posts wasn't rhetorical?  &)

Ok: I read your posts, in which you kept discussing.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 02:41:11 PM by Emergence »
Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal.
Arthur Schopenhauer

EurekAlert - Science News / Public Library of Science / Scholarpedia

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #177 on: August 08, 2011, 05:36:09 PM »
John 3 16,

Your last post was removed because it was completely useless and of no value at all.

Do not do that again.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #178 on: August 08, 2011, 05:43:36 PM »
I am actually very interested in this! How would you describe your socio-economic status in relation to the community you live in?
you tell me yours, then I will tell you mine
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6858
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #179 on: August 08, 2011, 05:47:35 PM »
I am actually very interested in this! How would you describe your socio-economic status in relation to the community you live in?
you tell me yours, then I will tell you mine

Middle class, university educated.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #180 on: August 08, 2011, 06:16:05 PM »
slightly below middle class, university educated. (not in US)

What do you do for living?
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6858
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #181 on: August 08, 2011, 06:50:42 PM »
Career isn't relevant, really.

Do you have a history of psychological illness? 

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #182 on: August 08, 2011, 07:14:18 PM »
No, no illness that I know of.
Physically in good shape too. for my age.

How about you? any problem? mentally, or socially?
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6858
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #183 on: August 08, 2011, 07:56:54 PM »
No.

If you did not have your belief system, would you think life was hell? Would you be happy?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #184 on: August 08, 2011, 08:46:52 PM »
I wouldn't think my life was hell without my "belief system"(it's kinda funny to call my Christianity like that, but that's OK I think you deserve some answers.)
I would call my life "meaningless", I mean any life "meaningless"
I love my wife, my children to death, but you know.  People work all day to support family, make payments, some happy moments, some sad moments, some stressfull moments,,,etc.
in the end it's always same, "we all die at somepoint"
Good person, bad person, smart person, doesn't matter we all die and go to ashes.

What do you think?
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6858
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #185 on: August 08, 2011, 08:55:19 PM »
I think Omen has a point. 

A belief system is what it is.
Clicky
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #186 on: August 08, 2011, 10:14:41 PM »
What about your belief system?
If you didn't have your belief system, would you be happy or terrified about your life.
how is your life? what makes you happy?
If something extraordinary happens in your life and you can not explain it.
would you accept it or deny it?

Everybody has to face death sooner or later,
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6858
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #187 on: August 08, 2011, 10:23:27 PM »
Quote
If something extraordinary happens in your life and you can not explain it.
would you accept it or deny it?

What?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2700
  • Darwins +78/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #188 on: August 08, 2011, 10:47:42 PM »
John,

Since Ambassador horny isn't online at the moment and you are, I was wondering what you meant by your comment in reply to my question about what Jesus would do. You said;

what if I say "what would your atheist god do?"

This little knee jerk reaction of yours makes no sense. Please explain.
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #189 on: August 09, 2011, 07:50:21 AM »
It actually wasn't a monosynaptic reflex
I just thought it was funny when you asked me "WWJD"
I often find people take the name of Jesus in vain.
because you were mentioning something you don't even believe (Jesus)
So I said basically same thing back to you "what would your atheist god do?"
.
.
.
I thought you were an atheist.
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12561
  • Darwins +304/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #190 on: August 09, 2011, 07:52:04 AM »
That doesn't help, Jonny.  The problem isn't that your motivation is unclear - though thanks for clearing that up.

The problem is that the question is incoherent.  It's nonsensical.  Was that your intention?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #191 on: August 09, 2011, 07:53:13 AM »
I am not an atheist
Just curious.
Would you mind explaining to me what you are?
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #192 on: August 09, 2011, 07:57:00 AM »
That doesn't help, Jonny.  The problem isn't that your motivation is unclear - though thanks for clearing that up.

The problem is that the question is incoherent.  It's nonsensical.  Was that your intention?
exactly, if someone asks me nonsense, I reply nonsense.
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11224
  • Darwins +296/-38
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #193 on: August 09, 2011, 08:05:50 AM »
That doesn't help, Jonny.  The problem isn't that your motivation is unclear - though thanks for clearing that up.

The problem is that the question is incoherent.  It's nonsensical.  Was that your intention?
exactly, if someone asks me nonsense, I reply nonsense.

It's nonsense to ask a believer what a character he/she believes in would do?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12561
  • Darwins +304/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #194 on: August 09, 2011, 08:12:36 AM »
exactly, if someone asks me nonsense, I reply nonsense.

Jaybwell was asking how you thought Jesus would conduct himself, compared to how you've conducted yourself.

How is that nonsense?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #195 on: August 09, 2011, 09:05:29 AM »
Maybe Jay was simply asking me a question, especially, he claims he is not an atheist.
then, I was overreacting ;)
Sorry Jay.

I would like to know Jay's belief system.
He claims he is not an atheist, but by looking at his posts he sure does not sound like a believer.
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2700
  • Darwins +78/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #196 on: August 09, 2011, 09:14:08 AM »
Just curious.
Would you mind explaining to me what you are?

I am a six foot tall 230lb white heterosexual male of the species homo sapiens. in his mid 30's.  :P

As far as gods are concerned I am agnostic with deistic leanings. Or more specifically, agnostic pan-deist.
As far as religions are concerned, I have no use for them. Like any system man creates, the potential for abuse of power is present and has been exorcised with devastating results. I just don't trust any system that requires blind faith, obedience and my money coupled with the threat of eternal torment for non compliance.

P.S.
Not everyone on this forum is an atheist, not everyone who questions you or your convictions is an atheist, not every atheist is angry at you or your god. Please remember, you are not talking to atheism, you are talking to people.
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #197 on: August 09, 2011, 09:17:15 AM »
Thank you for the advise.
Very good one too.
Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline caveat_imperator

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 198
  • Darwins +6/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #198 on: August 09, 2011, 10:27:15 AM »
Thank you for the advise.
Very good one too.

So is jaybwell32 gonna get an answer to his wwjd question?
I know if Jesus acted the way you've been acting here I wouldn't give him the time of day.
"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

Offline Avatar Of Belial

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
  • Darwins +30/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm not an Evil person; I just act like one!
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #199 on: August 09, 2011, 10:53:02 AM »
not every atheist is angry at [...] your god.

To be honest, if someone told me they were angry at (any) god, I'd have a hard time believing them to be an atheist.
"You play make-believe every day of your life, and yet you have no concept of 'imagination'."
I do not have "faith" in science. I have expectations of science. "Faith" in something is an unfounded assertion, whereas reasonable expectations require a precedent.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2700
  • Darwins +78/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #200 on: August 09, 2011, 11:50:20 AM »
To be honest, if someone told me they were angry at (any) god, I'd have a hard time believing them to be an atheist.

True, true...I have known one or two people in my life who were rebelling against authority i.e. their parents, school, church, etc. They chose to call themselves atheists and deny the existence of God in order to facilitate their rebellion and piss off the parents. They also admitted to me in private that they were in fact angry at God but also angry at the oppressive nature of religion and, as an extension, their parents. I think I did ask at the time how they could be angry at something they try to claim does not exist. I don't recall what the answer was. Their struggle for independence was the first stage of enlightenment for them. After they grew and matured they lost that rebelliousness and indignation and simply lived their life according to how they saw fit. No more anger.

I think many Christians base their understanding of atheism on something similar. For Christians who de-convert, there is sometimes a certain amount of righteous indignation as a result of becoming disillusioned. But I think I've prattled on long enough. My point is that their are some people out there who are angry at God and where the cloak of atheism to lash out. However, you wouldn't expect to hear many of them admit this because it would defeat the purpose.
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline John 3 16

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Darwins +1/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • Darwins +0/-1,000,000,000
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #201 on: August 09, 2011, 11:58:53 AM »
Thank you for the advise.
Very good one too.

So is jaybwell32 gonna get an answer to his wwjd question?
I know if Jesus acted the way you've been acting here I wouldn't give him the time of day.
Jesus probably would say"Repent, all you sinners. I am here to save you, if anyone believes my word, you will have eternal life, of if not "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." (John 12:48)



Are you a hatheist?  (hey-thee-ist)

A person who vocally hates on religious individuals, often criticizing such persons for being uneducated hillbillies.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2700
  • Darwins +78/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is atheism the default position?
« Reply #202 on: August 09, 2011, 12:03:46 PM »
@ John

Ahhh...but, would he insult the size of your penis?
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.