The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........

[kin hell]

..........as the water would flow off the edge.

Please pardon my ignorance, but I have a few questions.

What was the current belief re: the shape of the earth at the time of writing about the flood?

And if it was flat earth theory, can anyone tell me how they got around this problem?

[12 Monkeys]

well did the sky come down at the edges? like an upside-down tea cup on a saucer? the teacup being the sky and the plate the earth? Like the dome that covered Springfield in the Simpsons movie.

[One Above All]

well did the sky come down at the edges? like an upside-down tea cup on a saucer? the teacup being the sky and the plate the earth? Like the dome that covered Springfield in the Simpsons movie.

I think it was described more as a sort of curtain covering the Earth.

[12 Monkeys]

^^^^ that's even more hilarious!!

[globalvalue]

Scientists have calculated the amount of water in and on the earth.
There isn't enough water to cover the entire earth to the tops of the mountains.
There is only about 50% of the water required.

[One Above All]

And if it was flat earth theory, can anyone tell me how they got around this problem?

If you're actually serious about the question, it's very simple:
Bible says so and Bible is always right; therefore no problem existed as far as they were concerned.

[Gnu Ordure]

GlobalValue:

Scientists have calculated the amount of water in and on the earth.
There isn't enough water to cover the entire earth to the tops of the mountains.
There is only about 50% of the water required.

I'm curious. What year did they do the calculation for?

(800,00 years ago the Himalayas were half the height they are now).

[globalvalue]

GlobalValue:

Scientists have calculated the amount of water in and on the earth.
There isn't enough water to cover the entire earth to the tops of the mountains.
There is only about 50% of the water required.

I'm curious. What year did they do the calculation for?

(800,00 years ago the Himalayas were half the height they are now).

Is the flood story 800,000 years ago or 6,000 years ago?

[One Above All]

(800,00 years ago the Himalayas were half the height they are now).

The Earth is 6000-10000 years old and not a second longer.

[mram]

It's simple people.. Water falls off the edge of the earth and is captured by the little tea cup and recycled back up... Damned.. Don't you people know nothing?
The flood happened when... uhh.. well...errmmm.. well, it just did! There! God said it did so stop questioning stuff!  It pisses god off when you gain knowledge! 

[Gnu Ordure]

Is the flood story 800,000 years ago or 6,000 years ago?

I don't know. That's what I was asking, what date did they use ?

[mram]

Remember Gnu.. God hates knowledge.. You're playing with fire questioning things. 

[kin hell]

Thanks everybody

OK I understand the veiled reference  , but has the mechanics of the gloriously imaginative fabrication of a curtain of sky stopping the overflow been explained?

ie ......did the curtain get tide marks?
.....if walled off by a curtain, to where did the waters run?

and yes, I know this is a stupid story, but I am interested in what constructions the modern fundamental flood apologists must use to shore-up the the eroding credibility of their own version.

I've, since OP posting, done a little research and it seems that the flat earth was the predominant theory at the time of the bible scribblings, so I would expect any true modern Noah-ist to have a pseudo-scientific rational regarding the curtain and the flood, I was wondering if anyone had come across this.

[mram]

Well.. in open space there is no up or down... maybe it happened when sky daddy tipped us upsidedown like a salt shaker making the flood and all the water to run back down the other way like a egg timer..
That's all I got.. That's why it snows too.. sky daddy shakes earth.. snow globe.

Damned.. ya just can't beat science to 'splain stuff, huh? 

[jaimehlers]

tongue-in-cheek:  Gravity would still operate on a flat earth, so of course the water goes to the flip side of the 'coin'.

The problem with a flat earth is that an object that is beyond a certain mass will be more or less a sphere, because mass wants to go to the center of it.  You could make a flat planet, but you'd have to have some pretty substantial structural components to keep it from eventually buckling inwards into a sphere.

[mram]

tongue-in-cheek:  Gravity would still operate on a flat earth, so of course the water goes to the flip side of the 'coin'.

The problem with a flat earth is that an object that is beyond a certain mass will be more or less a sphere, because mass wants to go to the center of it.  You could make a flat planet, but you'd have to have some pretty substantial structural components to keep it from eventually buckling inwards into a sphere.

Oh c'mon now.. That's just silly.. Everyone knows a quarter has gravity. 

[Graybeard]

..........as the water would flow off the edge.
And if it was flat earth theory, can anyone tell me how they got around this problem?

It is clear that you have never bothered to study Flat Earth theory - the 101 is that the earth is surrounded by The Great Ice Wall, thus making it like a frying pan and quite capable of holding water.

Did it never occur to you that if The Great Ice Wall were not there, all the oceans would drain into the Void?

(Huh! Kids nowadays!)

[kin hell]

..........as the water would flow off the edge.
And if it was flat earth theory, can anyone tell me how they got around this problem?

It is clear that you have never bothered to study Flat Earth theory - the 101 is that the earth is surrounded by The Great Ice Wall, thus making it like a frying pan and quite capable of holding water.

......but dad, the flood was higher than the greatest mountain are you saying the great ice wall is higher than those?
and if so why can I not see them from my place? Blazing glorious in all that exaggeratedly elevated albedo.

Did it never occur to you that if The Great Ice Wall were not there, all the oceans would drain into the Void?

(Huh! Kids nowadays!)

Anyway, I'm not sure what possible motivation you might have for trying to get me to renounce Roger Dean's revelation of the true nature of our flat earth, but here's proof that you are wrong.

[Graybeard]

......but dad, the flood was higher than the greatest mountain are you saying the great ice wall is higher than those?

Yes, it is a wall, not a mountain! Do you read nothing???

and if so why can I not see them from my place?

Why can't you see a mosquito at 500 yards?

Anyway, I'm not sure what possible motivation you might have for trying to get me to renounce Roger Dean's revelation of the true nature of our flat earth,

The man is (a) a liar (b) good with Photoshop

but here's proof that you are wrong.

Obviously really stupid! People would drop of the edge and we'd know about it. Not to mention all the fish and whales that would float around in the void.

[kin hell]

......but dad, the flood was higher than the greatest mountain are you saying the great ice wall is higher than those?

Yes, it is a wall, not a mountain! Do you read nothing???

if I read nothing how could I have questioned your previous post? The Great Ice walls are a fiction.

and if so why can I not see them from my place?

Why can't you see a mosquito at 500 yards?

Just because I haven't bothered to check out 500 backyards yet, doesn't meanI wouldn't see a mosquito in each of them if I could be bothered checking.

Anyway, I'm not sure what possible motivation you might have for trying to get me to renounce Roger Dean's revelation of the true nature of our flat earth,

The man is (a) a liar (b) good with Photoshop

Bloody sceptics! Just what would it take for you to believe the truth when you can't even believe the truth that you can see here with your own eyes?

but here's proof that you are wrong.

Obviously really stupid! People would drop of the edge and we'd know about it. Not to mention all the fish and whales that would float around in the void.

People go missing every day. Ships mysteriously disappear. The earth's fish stocks are dramatically lower than yesteryears. Where do you think they all went?

Haven't you ever heard of gravity? They fall over the edge, into the void yes, then gravity drags them back down to the underside of the flat earth.
Its why our earth's face is  the obvious upside as the waters have been flowing so long now that the other side weighs more and is now permanently down.
Who can tell what will happen when the clouds eventually run out of rain. We'll have to start drilling through the earth to get at the water supplies I expect.

[jaimehlers]

tongue-in-cheek:  Gravity would still operate on a flat earth, so of course the water goes to the flip side of the 'coin'.

The problem with a flat earth is that an object that is beyond a certain mass will be more or less a sphere, because mass wants to go to the center of it.  You could make a flat planet, but you'd have to have some pretty substantial structural components to keep it from eventually buckling inwards into a sphere.

Oh c'mon now.. That's just silly.. Everyone knows a quarter has gravity. 

Yes, and gravity is weak unless you have a lot of mass[1].  A simple magnet can hold a small metal object (such as a pin) up against the gravitational force of the entire Earth.  A large enough magnet can lift something weighing tons up against that same gravitational force.

That's why I said "beyond a certain mass".  You really need to be fairly close to the mass of a small planet for it to form a proper sphere, and even then it's isn't going to have the mass to smooth out mountains and valleys.

1.	if you rate gravity with a force strength of 1, the next force up, the weak nuclear force (I can never remember what it actually does, but it's related to nuclear decay), is rated at about 10^25 by comparison, that is to say, 10 * a trillion (10^12) * a trillion (10^12)

[Graybeard]

The Great Ice walls are a fiction.

You've been there and not seen it, eh?

Bloody sceptics! Just what would it take for you to believe the truth when you can't even believe the truth that you can see here with your own eyes?

I bet you believe everything that is written too...

People go missing every day. Ships mysteriously disappear. The earth's fish stocks are dramatically lower than yesteryears. Where do you think they all went?

This might be a very good question, except that God did it.

Haven't you ever heard of gravity? They fall over the edge, into the void yes, then gravity drags them back down to the underside of the flat earth.

Your hypothesis seems to have moved to a theory. It also explains "The Fountains of the Deep", as that is where all the ater will end up too.

Its why our earth's face is  the obvious upside as the waters have been flowing so long now that the other side weighs more and is now permanently down.

Who can tell what will happen when the clouds eventually run out of rain. We'll have to start drilling through the earth to get at the water supplies I expect.

Brilliant! This explains everything.

[kin hell]

The Great Ice walls are a fiction.

You've been there and not seen it, eh?

OK maybe there once was something like the Great Ice Wall (which I doubt), but since they started locking farm fertiliser storage tanks and stopped easy access to anhydrous ammonia (a critical ingredient in the manufacture of methamphetamine) the Wall has gone.
 I know this to be true because a local graffitti crew of my acquaintance travelled there to tag it, and yes, they'd not seen it when they got there.

Bloody sceptics! Just what would it take for you to believe the truth when you can't even believe the truth that you can see here with your own eyes?

I bet you believe everything that is written too...

only if I want too.....

People go missing every day. Ships mysteriously disappear. The earth's fish stocks are dramatically lower than yesteryears. Where do you think they all went?

This might be a very good question, except that God did it.

....that exactly proves my point.  God didn't make the great ice wall because he wanted people to fall off the edge. This fact is evidenced by the obvious reasoning behind why he didn't give us wings either so we could fly to safety once fallen.

Haven't you ever heard of gravity? They fall over the edge, into the void yes, then gravity drags them back down to the underside of the flat earth.

Your hypothesis seems to have moved to a theory. It also explains "The Fountains of the Deep", as that is where all the ater will end up too.

Its why our earth's face is  the obvious upside as the waters have been flowing so long now that the other side weighs more and is now permanently down.

Who can tell what will happen when the clouds eventually run out of rain. We'll have to start drilling through the earth to get at the water supplies I expect.

Brilliant! This explains everything.

[/quote]

and further, once all the water accumulates on one side of this planetary coin, it's weight and pressure might cause spontaneous cracks and pressure weakened fault-lines, which would only be exacerbated by the  up surface's (drylanders') desperately drilling for water, who knows, maybe it's a rinse cycle?

[mram]

I'm going with the theory the earth was NEVER flat to begin with and we have the same amount of water on the planet now as we had 80,000 years ago minus the small amount alien spaceships sucked off the planet from the movies..
Oh wait! They sucked the earth DRY, but Jayzez put new water here... Either way, water vapor is incapable of escaping the earths gravitational pull into space any further than the highest clouds ever form now so unless human beings were on the planet before plate tectonics formed mountains the whole idea falls.. you know....flat. 

[Joecamoe]

New International Version (©1984)
Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

The modern belief that especially medieval Christianity believed in a flat earth has been referred to as The Myth of the Flat Earth, it was started in the 19th century, thanks largely to the publication of Washington Irving's fantasy The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus in 1828.
Ancient astronomers could determine that the earth was round by observing its circular shadow move across the moon during lunar eclipses. There is some suggestion that the Egyptians knew of the earth's spherical size and shape around 2550 B.C. (more than a thousand years before Moses). The Greek philosopher Pythagoras, who was born in 532 B.C., defended the spherical theory on the basis of observations he had made of the shape of the sun and moon. If this information was known by educated Greeks and Egyptians during biblical times, its use by Isaiah is nothing special.

[One Above All]

New International Version (©1984)
Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

A circle is not a sphere.

[kin hell]

New International Version (©1984)
Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

A circle is not a sphere.

...good point Blaz and the tent like heavens seems to imply no comprehension of their (the heaven's) total encompassment, rather that they are limited to(pegged to, if you like)  the surface of a flat earth, like any tent you could name Joecamoe.

[Joecamoe]

Let's pretend it's two thousand years ago and you're shown a vision of the earth from the moon.  Is it a sphere to you? perhaps. I would call it a circle.  Concept is the same.


Job 26:7 God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing.

New Living Translation (©2007)


For me, the 'tent like a canopy' is just a way of getting the thought across.  Like saying we have feet like a bear etc you may not appreciate biblical poetic language but that doesn't stop it from making sense to me.

[kin hell]

Let's pretend it's two thousand years ago and you're shown a vision of the earth from the moon.  Is it a sphere to you? perhaps. I would call it a circle.  Concept is the same.


Job 26:7 God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing.

New Living Translation (©2007)

now that's confusing, last post you argued that Isaiah would've/could've known the earth was a sphere, now you seem to say that it is understandable that people would believe in a flat earth (esp 2000 years ago)