Author Topic: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........  (Read 5411 times)

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Offline One Above All

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2011, 10:01:12 AM »
Let's pretend it's two thousand years ago and you're shown a vision of the earth from the moon.  Is it a sphere to you? perhaps. I would call it a circle.  Concept is the same.

Let's pretend that you know the difference between a circle and a sphere. Also, let's pretend the Bible says YHWH is omniscient and good. Would a good god lie about something? Nope. I would call it a "contradiction".
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Joecamoe

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2011, 10:20:30 AM »
I have another good one for you:

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
http://www.believethesign.com

 6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

 5 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.

Offline One Above All

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2011, 10:31:34 AM »
I have another good one for you: <snip>

I have a better one for you: Dodging
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline mram

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2011, 10:36:04 AM »
---dusting off my handy book handed down to me from Magellan--- Peaking inside... Oh I see it..
I know the earth is round for I have seen the shadow on the moon..

They believed the earth was flat in Magellan's time.. It's no 19th century myth.. They REALLY believed it and believed there were sea monsters hell bent on eating ships whole and mermaids were out there to seduce sailors to murder them..  &)
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Offline velkyn

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2011, 11:31:53 AM »
Let's pretend it's two thousand years ago and you're shown a vision of the earth from the moon.  Is it a sphere to you? perhaps. I would call it a circle.  Concept is the same.
  So you are ignorant then. That can be fixed. Would you also call a basketball a circle?

And ah, the usual cherry picking and special “interpretation” that all Christians have when dealing with bible verses.  The only reason it makes sense to you is that you were told that this was what God “really” meant by someone else who also needed to believe. 
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Offline mram

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2011, 12:13:11 PM »
Quote
Let's pretend it's two thousand years ago and you're shown a vision of the earth from the moon
You would have died from lack of oxygen on the moon 2000 years ago and might have drowned in the nasty muck of green cheese and been eaten by the man on the moon too. Let's pretend we're all just kings and queens of the universe while we're at it.. Most people back then didn't have a good grasp of geometry because *SURPRISE*..Knowledge was withheld to keep them ignorant not to mention SOME of them had some crank telling them all they gotta do is to sing it the next time it comes around on the guitar to go to heaven..
Imagine gaining favor with "Darwin's"...kind of like praying, huh?

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Offline globalvalue

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2011, 03:48:27 PM »
New International Version (©1984)
Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.


The Scripture above illustrates that the Bible people believed that the sky was like a canopy or a tent over the earth.
Look at the Scripture below to see Jesus' understanding of the heavens.

Matthew 24:29
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Notice Jesus said "THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky." Jesus also believed the sky was like a canopy or tent over the earth and that the stars were like Christmas lights stuck up into the canopy. By his logic the stars could fall from the sky to earth. We know that stars are thousands of times larger than the earth, and if one collided with the earth, the earth would be destroyed. For a God, Jesus was lacking in knowledge about the universe.
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Offline Omen

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2011, 03:57:01 PM »
I have another good one for you:

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Nice, that'll show'em.. use self serving rhetoric to condemn people that won't believe your idiotic religious text at face value and don't answer for the contradictions inherent to that text.  That's not the kind of behavior expected out of cult like mentalities at all!
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2011, 04:07:01 PM »
Graybeard's eyes are freaking me out.  :o
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2011, 09:30:41 PM »
Let's pretend it's two thousand years ago and you're shown a vision of the earth from the moon.  Is it a sphere to you? perhaps. I would call it a circle.  Concept is the same.

So...the hebrews saw the earth from the moon and thought it was a flat disk?  Yet the greeks and egyptians knew it was a sphere.  I don't follow. And is there not a different hebrew word for sphere? If that was what they meant, why did they not use it?

Quote
For me, the 'tent like a canopy' is just a way of getting the thought across. 

I thought the tent canopy analogy was apt.  It describes a more or less flat ground with a more or less firm, dome-ish cover over it.  That was indeed how the hebrews perceived it.  When yhwh parted the waters...
Quote
6 And God said, ‘Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.’ 7So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
gen1:6-7 nrsv
the dome - or sometimes "firmament" - was the sky.  It was solid and held the waters above[1].  Stars were apparently glued to its inner surface.  When yhwh flooded the earth, he opened the windows of heaven and let the water flow in.

A more complete argument can be found here

I don't know why it is such a problem for xians to admit the bible gets this wrong.  It was written by an unremarkable, technologically backward people even for their time. You don't expect it to mention particle physics do you?  Or thermodynamics?  You do not seem to throw a fit claiming that it does indeed correctly state Ohms law.  It does not predict the Americas or even Europe.  How in the world could they be expected to know the world wasn't flat?  They were too busy playing with their urim and thummim.

So just admit it.  The ancient jews thought their planet was like a snow globe, only with the water outside it.



I have another good one for you:

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Good one?  That was a total cop out.  It was a forfeit.  It was a tacit admission of defeat.  Hang your head in shame. 

Or wait, were you giving Blaziken advice to not answer you?

 1. strong's concordance. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7549&t=KJV
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Offline Historicity

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2011, 09:53:21 PM »
Let me remind you all of a word you think you know:

CONTINENT

In modern English it means a really big island.  But not in its Latin original.  It is feminine gender and is a contraction of

TERRA CONTINENS[1]

It means The Containing Land.

To the early Greeks beyond the River Ocean was a raised edge for the flat Earth.   This land was the rim that kept the ocean water in.

They also had stories of the inhabitants of the Continent.  For instance an expedition where most of the men didn't make it back to the ship because the inhabitants were all medusas, a swarm of which attacked them and turned most of them to stone.

I figure the Hebrews had the same beliefs as other people in the area, they just held onto them longer.  Considering that some of the New Testament writers were flat earthers that is really pathetic.
 1. Plural TERRAE CONTINENTES

Offline mram

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2011, 10:16:37 PM »
I'd like a flood about now..just a small one.. It's 98 degrees still at 10:15 pm.   :P
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Offline leninreturns

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2011, 03:39:10 AM »
..........as the water would flow off the edge.

Please pardon my ignorance, but I have a few questions.

What was the current belief re: the shape of the earth at the time of writing about the flood?

And if it was flat earth theory, can anyone tell me how they got around this problem?

Based on the description of the earths creation within the bible as well as a similar description within the epic of Gilgamesh that contains a similar flood story, it would appear as though these ancient writers either did not have a grasp on this concept and/or understood the sky to touch the ground at some point far away crating a "curtain" or "wall" of sorts.

Offline leninreturns

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2011, 03:43:17 AM »


So just admit it.  The ancient jews thought their planet was like a snow globe, only with the water outside it.



So you want a theist to admit that the ancient writers of the bible (who we can't even say were hebrew/jewish since those terms are NEVER used) were not as educated as their 3,000 year later (or however long, im not wanting to look up dates this late) friends the greeks?   yeah, i'll totally admit that, thats pretty obvious. Does it make my faith invalid or my God not real? Nope.

Offline screwtape

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2011, 07:15:23 AM »
actually, they were contemporaries. More or less.  bona fide judaism came about in the 6th century bce, or thereabouts.  The Greek Pythagoras figured out the earth was a sphere in the 6th century, bce.  They nailed down the specifics in the 3rd century bce.  So while there was a gap, it was not a 3000 year gap.  There were no people who could be called "jews" in 3400 bce. 
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Offline mram

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2011, 07:54:41 AM »
^^^still hoping for a mini-flood or just a few sprinkles.. It's 8am and still 87 degrees..probably be 105 by noon..  &)... OK sky daddy..if you're gonna do anything send some rain.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2011, 10:32:20 AM »
^ In what way does that add to this conversation?  Seriously, dude, exercise a little discipline with the "post" button.  This is not twitter.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2011, 03:02:20 PM »
So you want a theist to admit that the ancient writers of the bible (who we can't even say were hebrew/jewish since those terms are NEVER used) were not as educated as their 3,000 year later (or however long, im not wanting to look up dates this late) friends the greeks?   yeah, i'll totally admit that, thats pretty obvious. Does it make my faith invalid or my God not real? Nope.
It certainly makes on wonder just how your god is just as ignorant as the people that invented it.  Funny that this god didn't know any more than they did and that all of the events claimed to have been caused by this god can't be shown to ever have happened.   When comparing this god of yours to others from the same time, Zeus, Odin, etc, it is no suprise that they are nothing more than human attempts at explaining the world and how special that particular "tribe" was. 
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Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2011, 03:19:47 PM »


So just admit it.  The ancient jews thought their planet was like a snow globe, only with the water outside it.



So you want a theist to admit that the ancient writers of the bible (who we can't even say were hebrew/jewish since those terms are NEVER used) were not as educated as their 3,000 year later (or however long, im not wanting to look up dates this late) friends the greeks?   yeah, i'll totally admit that, thats pretty obvious. Does it make my faith invalid or my God not real? Nope.
simple question,Why? No God's have ever stood the test of time. Your God is losing his grip more and more each decade. You have also got to remember the same thing that proves your God real can be used on any God.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2011, 03:31:41 PM »
Let's pretend it's two thousand years ago and you're shown a vision of the earth from the moon.  Is it a sphere to you? perhaps. I would call it a circle.  Concept is the same.
  So you are ignorant then. That can be fixed. Would you also call a basketball a circle?

And ah, the usual cherry picking and special “interpretation” that all Christians have when dealing with bible verses.  The only reason it makes sense to you is that you were told that this was what God “really” meant by someone else who also needed to believe.

So, Joe, how about it, Do you call a basketball a circle?  I know you are active on these forums, so how about dealing with the responses to your claims rather than running away with some pitiful parthian shot from Proverbs when you are shown you are simply wrong.  There is no shame in being wrong.  There at least should be shame and contrition when the facts show you are.  I do recall that your god hates liars, Joe.  Do you think he approves of you lying for him?  I'd advise you to read Romans 3. 

I do always enjoy when a Christian runs back to the OT, where all of those pesky laws are that JC said to keep.
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Offline Suzy

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2011, 02:33:26 AM »
The Bible is a Flat Earth book. Here is a very good article about it: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

And there are still Christians who believe Galileo was wrong: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-galileo-was-wrong-20110704,0,1142889.story

Back at the end of the 19th century some Christians were still fighting for the Flat Earth idea (their arguments were much like Creationist's today):

http://ateistanaplo.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/squareearth.jpeg


Offline kin hell

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2011, 03:30:00 AM »

dear Suzy
thanks for the v interesting links

This is however a dead thread and there is an accepted practice here at WWGHA, not to resurrect old threads

I thought your links were great and have opened a new thread in your name here

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,20111.new.html#new
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all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline MMcNeely

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2011, 04:25:12 AM »
Ok everyone... after much searching I have found the answer to this question.  To make it easier for us Atheists to grasp, the wise Christians put it in a song!



LOL... silly Christians.

Offline changeling

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2011, 06:22:55 AM »
^^^ God must have said that men should put a lot of hair spray in their hair.
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

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Offline Nam

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2011, 12:20:30 PM »
To the OP,

It could based on the various structures (natural or unnatural) on the service of the planet, but, I understand what you mean.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Rustybeatz

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2011, 08:13:19 PM »
New International Version (©1984)
Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.


The Scripture above illustrates that the Bible people believed that the sky was like a canopy or a tent over the earth.
Look at the Scripture below to see Jesus' understanding of the heavens.

Matthew 24:29
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Notice Jesus said "THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky." Jesus also believed the sky was like a canopy or tent over the earth and that the stars were like Christmas lights stuck up into the canopy. By his logic the stars could fall from the sky to earth. We know that stars are thousands of times larger than the earth, and if one collided with the earth, the earth would be destroyed. For a God, Jesus was lacking in knowledge about the universe.

Not to mention the part where he says the moon will not give it's light anymore. 
I didn't know the moon was self illuminating. That's some interesting stuff right there.

Offline ungod

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2011, 04:23:33 PM »
..........as the water would flow off the edge.

Please pardon my ignorance, but I have a few questions.

What was the current belief re: the shape of the earth at the time of writing about the flood?

And if it was flat earth theory, can anyone tell me how they got around this problem?

They didn't - here's proof

Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

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Offline Historicity

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2011, 04:38:32 PM »
 
actually, they were contemporaries. More or less.  bona fide judaism came about in the 6th century bce, or thereabouts.  The Greek Pythagoras figured out the earth was a sphere in the 6th century, bce.  They nailed down the specifics in the 3rd century bce.  So while there was a gap, it was not a 3000 year gap.  There were no people who could be called "jews" in 3400 bce.

Yep, the Babylonian Captivity was the origin of Judaism.  When they were captives they had to stop talking about the glories of genocide and start appealing to their captors about the virtues of universal justice.  They had psych each other up so they formed clubs -- discussion groups.  Because individuals can come up with very kooky ideas it was a good idea to stablize the group with a quorum of 10.  That's where the synagogue started.



« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 04:51:31 PM by Historicity »

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: The flood couldn't occur on a flat earth.........
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2011, 05:51:50 PM »
Of course a flood could not happen on a flat earth. If the earth were flat, there would be quite a number of problems that could inhibit the flood from happening. The most obvious problem is that water would merely fall off of the edge of the earth. Physics present a host of other problems for the flat earth theory, not just in regards to flooding either. Gravity tends to form larger, planet sized bodies into spheres, not discs. Our planet has an atmosphere because of the gravity it exerts. A mass large enough to support our current atmosphere is highly probable to be spherical in nature. A flat earth would mean that it is not nearly large enough to maintain our atmosphere, therefore there would neither be rainfall, nor floods, nor human beings pondering whether such acts are the deeds of God. That people long believed the earth to be the flat, center of the universe, and pointed to their faith as the reason for this belief, are evidence of the type of things that can happen when one has beliefs without justification.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?