Author Topic: I will not prove God exists  (Read 21179 times)

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Offline velkyn

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #348 on: August 23, 2011, 01:17:40 PM »
Wow! Velkyn. Inherited properties were all I had when I was 31.
I don’t buy that for a moment.  You do remember that your god hates lies and liars?
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let's say you had $10 (that's all you had), you gave it to a panhandler, how much do you have left? Nothing.  Now, follow Jesus,
why yes, that’s exactly what JC is saying.
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Does Jesus say 'you can never have any personal belongs for the rest of you life'?
Yep, goes onto support that in the other sayings I cited as well as further along in the NT where Christians live communally.  Pity about that for you. 
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Online screwtape

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #349 on: August 23, 2011, 01:36:37 PM »
John 3 16,

I ask you this as a forum member:  please go away.  You are clearly a dipshit without any good arguments or even a firm idea of why you believe what you believe.  You are also clearly just here to be annoying. So, do us all a favor and stop wasting your time.  Please go away.
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #350 on: August 23, 2011, 01:48:42 PM »
John 3 16,

I ask you this as a forum member:  please go away.  You are clearly a dipshit without any good arguments or even a firm idea of why you believe what you believe.  You are also clearly just here to be annoying. So, do us all a favor and stop wasting your time.  Please go away.
your request has been processed!
you dipshit!

Bye
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Offline Omen

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #351 on: August 23, 2011, 01:52:34 PM »
John 3 16,

I ask you this as a forum member:  please go away.  You are clearly a dipshit without any good arguments or even a firm idea of why you believe what you believe.  You are also clearly just here to be annoying. So, do us all a favor and stop wasting your time.  Please go away.

One doesn't engage in this behavior without some kind of compulsive condition to motivate it.  I think its a mix of stroking his own ego, but also being incapable of compartmentalizing deconstructive arguments that hit too close to home.  Its like a tug of war between his own ego and lack of confidence, we are just fuel.
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Offline EV

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #352 on: August 23, 2011, 02:17:53 PM »
Non-seqitur fallacy(hidden appeal to ignorance)
Caudex falllacy.(I just made dat up)

I'm guessing at least two people realised that "caudex" is Latin for "Blockhead"...

What a hypocrite.
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Online screwtape

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #353 on: August 23, 2011, 02:19:12 PM »
Interesting thought.  It is possible you are correct.  I see it more as a dipshit who vastly overestimated his own knowledge came here and got his ass handed to him.  In order to save face he sticks around and trolls.  He is obviously too juvenile to be intellectually honest nor is he disciplined enough to turn to his (now in tatters) faith and behave as jesus H commanded him to.   Or are we saying the same thing?

The best thing for him - the only thing he could to do preserve any dignity at this point - would be to admit coming here was a big mistake, apologize for being a douche and then quietly leave.  But notice that despite his having "processed" my request, he's still logged in.  My guess is he is going to escalate the douche-baggery and commit death by admin. 

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Online jdawg70

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #354 on: August 23, 2011, 02:44:02 PM »
John 3 16,

I ask you this as a forum member:  please go away.  You are clearly a dipshit without any good arguments or even a firm idea of why you believe what you believe.  You are also clearly just here to be annoying. So, do us all a favor and stop wasting your time.  Please go away.
your request has been processed!
you dipshit!

Bye

I'm going to detract from screwtape on this one and not ask you to go away just yet.

Don't get me wrong - I'm very much in agreement with screwtape on how the current nature of your discourse has been going.  You've done little but spout scripture references and seem either incapable or unwilling to respond to direct questions with any sort of independent thought.  Questions or thoughts lobbed at you (for example, I don't know, giving me reasons why you don't believe my claims of writing the bible) have been either ignored or sidestepped with scriptural responses.  From my perspective, the conversation looks like this:

Person X: *Some question*
You: *scripture quote*
Person X: Ok, but I don't accept the bible or any quotes in it as indisputable fact.  I dispute the objective validity of the bible and the words therein.
You: *scripture quote*

The core is that many of us here don't take the scriptures for any more than words.  They aren't factual claims.  If they *are* factual claims, then we are mistaken and you have to explain to us why and how we are mistaken.  But you refuse to do that.  You just continue copypasta'ing from the bible.

I want you to stick around for at least a little while longer because of what I'm going to call The Icecreamassassin's wager:

a) You are either a troll, an idiot, or a disillusioned person who is still very much trying to make sense of the world.
b) If you are a troll, then feeding you is simply going to get more of your scriptural/non-sequitur regurgitation.  If this be the case, my opinion will eventually not matter as you will eventually upset enough people that you will be banned and forcibly go away regardless.
c) If you are an idiot, then you are at least going to provide some entertaining fodder for a while.  And the end-game from point 'b' will likely eventually trigger.
d) If you are simply disillusioned, or confused, or have yet to critically think about what you do and do not believe, then any little bit of discourse on our end has, at least a chance, of potentially getting you to start thinking for yourself.

For me anyway, I have no problem with you sticking around.  At least for now.

So with that in mind, I'm going to just try again:

I wrote the bible.  I have a time machine, went back to 212AD, and gave it to away.  The stories that I wrote in the bible are fiction and do not reflect events that correspond to the reality.

Now, in all likelihood, you either believe the above claim or you do not believe the above claim.  Clearly I will have follow up questions, but let's just start with one question and go from there:

Do you believe my claim?
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Offline Avatar Of Belial

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #355 on: August 23, 2011, 03:05:35 PM »
I, too, was looking forward to comparing your arguments against the existence of Santa with those against your god over in this thread.

However, if you truly feel you can not contribute intelligently to a conversation, your departing may be the best course of action you could take for yourself.
"You play make-believe every day of your life, and yet you have no concept of 'imagination'."
I do not have "faith" in science. I have expectations of science. "Faith" in something is an unfounded assertion, whereas reasonable expectations require a precedent.

Offline fishjie

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #356 on: August 23, 2011, 04:16:54 PM »
pssh and people got mad at me when i said trolling fundamentalists is the best response because they are stupid morons.   

cause guess what?   john is a stupid moron.    i pray to my imaginary god that he does not breed and further spread his stupidity like a cancer.   and if he does....... may flying spaghetti monster help us all.

Offline fishjie

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #357 on: August 23, 2011, 04:36:49 PM »

If god were real, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  Everyone would know it.  It would be as obvious as gravity.


Hi Jeff,
  Why do you think so?

seriously bro?   

have YOU even read the scriptures?

let's look at the god of the bible.    he sent floods that wiped out all life on earth.  he sent plagues of locusts and angels of death that killed all the first born in egypt.    he raised TONS of people from the dead.    he brought down the walls of jericho.     moses had to wear a veil because he had spoken with god and his face was now glow in the dark.   

and now lets look at the OT.  jesus performed tons of miracles.    raised some people from the dead, rose himself from the dead, and healed a bunch of people.   he clearly stated that his followers would also be able to perform similar miracles.

at no point in the scriptures did god stay "behind the scenes".    he was an in your face deity that made his presence KNOWN.   nowhere in the scriptures did it say miracles would stop.   and indeed, for centuries following the advent of christianity, many saints performed similar miracles.   and yet they stopped all of a sudden.


Thanks for joining, fishjie. So that's maybe a thousand mega-miracles in 6000 years of history. The Bible is a record of the exceptional.

Miracles have not ceased, but they were never a daily occurance.

But wait...  you said earlier....
"I disagree strongly that any action of God would be detectable in some statistic."

But as I pointed out before, the actions of God were clearly statistically significant.     Jesus could walk on water.   That's a pretty statistically obvious miracle of God.

Now you say that miracles have not ceased.   So are you arguing that miracles have become weaker?     Because I don't remember hearing of any recent "miracles" where people were raised from the dead.    You hear stories about this, but only in ignorant superstitious countries with little to no education, and of course no hard evidence, just hearsay.   The only "miracles" are the statistically vague ones, such as some guy praying to be cured of a disease and the DOCTOR heals him.    In other words, "miracles" that did not have any "miraculous" element and could have happened with or without the existence of a god.

So I ask you, if miracles have not ceased, where are they?    Jesus clearly stipulated his followers would go on to perform even greater miracles.   He even said people could be bitten by poisonous snakes and be fine.     Again, statistically significant miracles.    I don't see any evidence of this though.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #358 on: August 23, 2011, 06:22:28 PM »
John 3:16 if you come back can you provide proof that you sold your fathers properties and gave to world vision. Then and only then could I take anything you say seriously


 But then again your father's properties in this market may have been a mere pittance and would harldy even be worth donating
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #359 on: August 24, 2011, 01:08:25 AM »
Wow John - what were you doing that led you to a position where after 31 years of existence you had NO possessions of your own?  Not a single chair, or book, or bicycle?  No change of clothes?
Wow Anf.
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."(Matthew 19:21)  does this sound like 'never have any personal possession'?
Does Jesus say 'you can never have any personal belongs for the rest of you life'?

Hmm.  John, you seem to be saying that once you have given away your possessions and set off in the footsteps of Jesus, it is then fine to start re-accumulating possessions - without ever again having to give them all away.  So I'm intrigued...

When you were 31, had you already given away all your possessions to follow Jesus?  So why then did you need to ALSO give away your inheritance, if it was "okay" to own things at that point?

If at 31 you had NOT given everything away....then I repeat my question - what the hell had happened in your life that you owned literally nothing BEFORE choosing Jesus?

And what possessions do you have now?  WHY is it okay to once again start accumulating after choosing Jesus?  Is accepting Christ a "one-off" action, after which you can ignore huge chunks of what he said?  To be honest, its an argument that strikes me as no different from the many super-rish preachers they have in the states. 

IT seems you differ from them only in degree -or, should I say, in interpretation? - and so are no more worthy of consideration or respect than they are.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline fishjie

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #360 on: August 24, 2011, 02:47:45 AM »
Jesus was homeless and he had no possessions.   So why would anyone think its okay to acquire material wealth, when Jesus specifically said that the treasure in heaven where moth does not corrupt is far more valuable?   

John sounds like your priorities are wrong.   Why don't you give me all your money instead.   I'll burn in hell and you can relax in heaven!

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #361 on: August 25, 2011, 01:12:35 AM »
John sounds like your priorities are wrong.   Why don't you give me all your money instead.   I'll burn in hell and you can relax in heaven!

Thats the problem for John - if he DOESN'T give his stuff away, HE burns.  If he gives it all to you, then YOU accumulate riches and he is responsible for YOU burning.

Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #362 on: August 25, 2011, 10:39:05 AM »
For the hard of thinking (like John) the video was there to illustrate the point I was making: a "give your stuff away" philosophy can only work while there are people out there who do not subscribe to it.  For every Christian to be able to give away all their stuff, there need to be non-Christians to give it to.  And the more Christians there are eschewing property, the harder it is for "new" Christians to find someone to give to.  Eventually, the last potential convert finds it impossible to follow Jesus' words because he has ended up with all the possessions and nobody who will accept them.

(Kinda like poor Dennis Moore - his attempts to "steal from the rich and give to the poor" can't work in the long term, because keep on doing it and the poor become rich.)

So point being: Jesus exhortations to give away your posessions and follow him relies on there being those out there who will not do so, and thus remain as potential recipients for those who do.  Proof that Jesus knew not everyone would do as he said?  Or proof that Christianity (and god) simply don't WANT everyone to be saved....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline DP86

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #363 on: August 25, 2011, 10:42:09 AM »
It's probably one of the many things written in the bible that 'seemed like a good idea at the time'  &)

Offline fishjie

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #364 on: August 25, 2011, 02:15:41 PM »
I think it was more of a "don't care about material possessions" type advice, kinda like the Buddhists or Taoists.   

If there is no one who wants your money, money will have already lost its meaning at that point so its irrelevant.    If nobody wants your house or possessions, then just let nature reclaim it.    I would imagine if all christians followed Jesus' advice, it'd look like some sort of hippy commune like in Acts.   

Personally I like making money, so although I can respect various religions and their sentiment of not being materialistic, I don't think I could ever do that 100%.   

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #365 on: August 26, 2011, 12:07:06 PM »
For the hard of thinking (like John) the video was there to illustrate the point I was making: a "give your stuff away" philosophy can only work while there are people out there who do not subscribe to it.  For every Christian to be able to give away all their stuff, there need to be non-Christians to give it to.  And the more Christians there are eschewing property, the harder it is for "new" Christians to find someone to give to.  Eventually, the last potential convert finds it impossible to follow Jesus' words because he has ended up with all the possessions and nobody who will accept them.


Not really. If you give away all your assets, you have no way of generating income, so you end up homeless and useless. This is why Christians can't do it, unless they enter a monastery, which is cheating. Once everyone is homeless and useless, nobody has any stuff to give. I'm thinking long term.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #366 on: August 27, 2011, 01:03:20 AM »
For the hard of thinking (like John) the video was there to illustrate the point I was making: a "give your stuff away" philosophy can only work while there are people out there who do not subscribe to it.  For every Christian to be able to give away all their stuff, there need to be non-Christians to give it to.  And the more Christians there are eschewing property, the harder it is for "new" Christians to find someone to give to.  Eventually, the last potential convert finds it impossible to follow Jesus' words because he has ended up with all the possessions and nobody who will accept them.


Not really. If you give away all your assets, you have no way of generating income, so you end up homeless and useless. This is why Christians can't do it, unless they enter a monastery, which is cheating. Once everyone is homeless and useless, nobody has any stuff to give. I'm thinking long term.

Ah - so really its more like a pyramid scam then!  Firt lot of Christians give away their stuff, and become poor and reliant on charity.  So they have to convince the NEXT lot of people to become Christians to give their stuff away to the original lot....and so on and so on.  Once again, the "last guy in" kinda gets it in the shorts - and, as John says, once you have given your stuff away, you have then "done what Jesus wanted" and are free to recommence your acquisition of material goods.

Whoda thunk it....god is the ultimate Ponzi scheme.....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #367 on: August 30, 2011, 06:34:51 PM »
John 3 16,

I ask you this as a forum member:  please go away.  You are clearly a dipshit without any good arguments or even a firm idea of why you believe what you believe.  You are also clearly just here to be annoying. So, do us all a favor and stop wasting your time.  Please go away.
your request has been processed!
you dipshit!

Bye
you are rude and dishonest. Very christian.
Screwtape spit on my face first, so I spit back.
ElliotViolin downvoted me and says I am rude.(I really didn't care about the points though)
Can any of the moderators figure this one out?
this post does not have to be shown to other members, and I admit I was trying to be annoying.
because I was deeply annoyed about how you guys interact each other.
If this is web site is about people with open mind and free talk, the expression I had was just totally one sided.
this was my first experience here on internet forum, I had never talked to anybody or had discussion on the internet before.
So I admit, I made few mistakes here and there. but ultimately, I think I learned a lot here. about people with different religion ,no religion, and so on so forth.

If your intention is proving you guys' logical belief system to the world, I think you should be more neutral. (Hal did pretty good job ;))
If you think your logic wins all the time, you don't have to try so hard to be on a certain side at all.

Again, I am sorry for being rude to some of the members here, I kept forgetting I was actually talking to REAL people.
If I was talking to you face to face I would have never made that kind of mistakes.

I am going on a mission trip pretty soon, there maybe no computers or electricity.
So good bye, Pony, Hal, Jetson, Alzael, Screwtape
 
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Online screwtape

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #368 on: August 31, 2011, 07:18:04 AM »
Screwtape spit on my face first, so I spit back.

hold that thought

ElliotViolin downvoted me and says I am rude.(I really didn't care about the points though)

You were being rude.  And if you didn't really care about the points then why did you act like a whiney little girl?  You down voted me.  Do you see me retaliating or crying about it?  Grow up.

I admit I was trying to be annoying. 

Ah.  Back to your opening statement.  So, Screwtape did not spit on you first.  You admit you were behaving exactly the way Screwtape described. 


So I admit, I made few mistakes here and there. but ultimately, I think I learned a lot here. about people with different religion ,no religion, and so on so forth.
...
Again, I am sorry for being rude to some of the members here, I kept forgetting I was actually talking to REAL people.
If I was talking to you face to face I would have never made that kind of mistakes.

If you come back, your actions will speak louder than words.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #369 on: August 31, 2011, 09:32:55 AM »
Again, I am sorry for being rude to some of the members here, I kept forgetting I was actually talking to REAL people.
If I was talking to you face to face I would have never made that kind of mistakes.

this has to be one of the most ridiculous excuses I've seen in a while.  John, do you also forget to be a decent human being when it suits you? 
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #370 on: August 31, 2011, 09:35:00 AM »
Again, I am sorry for being rude to some of the members here, I kept forgetting I was actually talking to REAL people.
If I was talking to you face to face I would have never made that kind of mistakes.

this has to be one of the most ridiculous excuses I've seen in a while.  John, do you also forget to be a decent human being when it suits you?

only when it is positively, absolutely, convenient
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline fizixgeek

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #371 on: October 03, 2011, 07:04:20 PM »
I wanted to respond to albeto's post:

Well, then you heard it here first. Whatever prayer you're sincere about is the prayer God will answer. The outward manifestations of prayer are worlds less important than the inward sincerity. Let me be clear. You should pray to god without first accepting Jesus as Savior. Faith is the result of sincere prayer, not a prerequisite.

You're saying that those people whose prayers were not answered didn't *really* pray sincerely.  You're saying people like my son, who at age 6 first wished to be dead, who prayed to a god his innocent, trusting mind sincerely believed existed, wasn't *really* being sincere.  You're saying my friend who watched his 16 year old niece die of leukemia didn't *really* pray sincerely.  Her mother and father were somehow holding back?  My LDS friend, who would identify the "right" God, whose prayers since childhood for a mother who wasn't mentally ill, wasn't sincere?  Srsly? 

Although an internet forum is such a ridiculous place to say this, I'm truly sorry about your son.

As to your point above, I think I was misunderstood there. I've noticed there's a knee-jerk reaction here to the word "sincere." I was encouraging people to pray to know whether God exists. God has made a promise to mankind to answer their prayers for knowledge that He exists and to confirm truths about Himself.

But, He did not promise to remove hardship, or even heart-breaking tragedy from our lives. Many, many sincere prayers go unanswered. Many more are not answered in the way we expect. I don't mean to trivialize any of the events you're describing, but I don't give my children everything they want, even when they really, really want it. Neither does God. His work and glory is to make us perfect. That takes a lot of work and hurts a lot sometimes. It's easier with faith, but LDS and other Christians also have days and even years we wouldn't wish on anyone. And, of course, the greatest of us led a life of poverty, loss, humiliation, betrayal, torture and an early death.

So, why believe? Why even seek faith if it doesn't remove our trials? I submit that we have a hard time in this world because it's a fallen world. Our natural home is with our Father in Heaven. This time of separation is an unnatural state and thus fraught with loneliness, doubt, confusion and pain. But, even in this life, God has promised to send us the Holy Spirit, also called the "Comforter." And he does comfort and give assurance of a world to come and a continuation of the relationships we cherish here.

I really didn't mean to question the sincerity of yourself, your son or your friends.


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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #372 on: October 03, 2011, 07:48:07 PM »
I was encouraging people to pray to know whether God exists.
So you pray to a god that you think does not exist and then that god will show you that He does exist.

If to pray genuinely, requires a belief in a god, do you not see that your argument is circular and assumes the answer?

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God has made a promise to mankind to answer their prayers for knowledge that He exists and to confirm truths about Himself.
No, no He has not. People who believe say that this is the case, but as they believe, they would say that, wouldn’t they?

There are ~6 times as many people on the planet to whom Yahweh son of El is neither here nor there and of no more importance than Shiva is to you.

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But, He did not promise to remove hardship, or even heart-breaking tragedy from our lives.
This is where I question your biblical knowledge. As far as I am aware, He promised just this. There is a catch – you have to be dead to benefit and as the old saying has it, “Dead men tell no tales.”

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Many, many sincere prayers go unanswered.
Which is strange:

1Ch:29:11: Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
1Ch:29:12: Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all; and in thine hand is power and might; and in thine hand it is to make great, and to give strength unto all.


Lu:11:5: And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;[…]
Lu:11:8: I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.
Lu:11:9: And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Lu:11:10: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
[...]
Lu:11:13: If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
and as we know, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the Disciples, they could speak foreign languages and cure the sick...

God made lots of people wealthy: Abraham (Genesis 17-20), Jacob (Genesis 30-31), Joseph (Genesis 41), King Jehoshaphat (2 Chronicles 17:5), etc.

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Many more are not answered in the way we expect.
This is pure fantasy apologetics.

Fizixgeek: “Could you sell me a t-shirt?”
Graybeard: “Certainly, here you are.”
Fizixgeek: “But that is an apple”
Graybeard: “Yes, I did not answer your request in the way you expected, but it will strengthen your character and make you appreciate me more. That’ll be $30.”
Fizixgeek: “Gee thanks.”


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I don't mean to trivialize any of the events you're describing, but I don't give my children everything they want, even when they really, really want it. Neither does God.
You know, I am impressed how similar you are to God.

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His work and glory is to make us perfect.
No, that, according to the Bible, is our work. We have free will and we find Him, He does not find us. (Look on him as a reverse Chuck Norris.)
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That takes a lot of work and hurts a lot sometimes.
This is explaining disappointment by blaming yourself or imagining it to be a “blessing”. This is pure delusion.

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And, of course, the greatest of us led a life of poverty, loss, humiliation, betrayal, torture and an early death.
I have to call you a liar here. You have absolutely nothing to back up that statement.

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But, even in this life, God has promised to send us the Holy Spirit, also called the "Comforter." And he does comfort and give assurance of a world to come and a continuation of the relationships we cherish here.
Let me get this right… There is Almighty God, who can do anything. He would can raise the dead, cure the blind, deaf, lame and mad… and what does He do? He sends a comforter… And for this we sacrifice our logic, knowledge, freedom, rationality and pour money into his bulging coffers so we can be alive when we are dead…

Can you see why people do not believe?


« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 07:56:40 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline violatedsmurf80

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #373 on: October 03, 2011, 07:52:38 PM »
God has made a promise to mankind to answer their prayers for knowledge that He exists and to confirm truths about Himself[/quote]

Mat 7.7
John 16.24

If that is the case why doesn't he appear outside of toast and other and appear to people that ask him to show them that he is real? These verse say it but it never comes through.

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I was encouraging people to pray to know whether God exists.

I did for 28 years, guess what I ask to hear his guiding voice and every thing but did I, nope.
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”--- Sinclair Lewis

I believe there is something out there watching over us. Unfortunately, it's the government.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #374 on: October 04, 2011, 05:13:29 AM »
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So you pray to a god that you think does not exist and then that god will show you that He does exist.

If to pray genuinely, requires a belief in a god, do you not see that your argument is circular and assumes the answer?

Historically it is the sure-fire means used for centuries to make groups of people believe things which were not in fact real at all.

Works like a charm, so don't diss it.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline velkyn

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #375 on: October 04, 2011, 08:52:38 AM »
Although an internet forum is such a ridiculous place to say this, I'm truly sorry about your son.
and why is this? 

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As to your point above, I think I was misunderstood there. I've noticed there's a knee-jerk reaction here to the word "sincere." I was encouraging people to pray to know whether God exists. God has made a promise to mankind to answer their prayers for knowledge that He exists and to confirm truths about Himself.
No, you weren’t misunderstood at all.  You just now want to claim that you didn’t “really” mean what you said and are trying to blame the reader rather than admit you’ve made claims that never work. I’m wondering Fiz, did you pray and pray and then comeback again to see if the prayers you said to be believed here come true?  Fail again.  People here have prayed sincerely, something you have indicated you did not think we did by your post.  If you did think we prayed sincerely, there would have been no need to specify that as part of your magic spell to get God’s attention.  You keep repeating that God has made some promise and funny how this promise is never kept.  I’ve prayed and prayed quite sincerely and gee, no evidence yet that this god exists at all. 
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But, He did not promise to remove hardship, or even heart-breaking tragedy from our lives. Many, many sincere prayers go unanswered. Many more are not answered in the way we expect. I don't mean to trivialize any of the events you're describing, but I don't give my children everything they want, even when they really, really want it. Neither does God. His work and glory is to make us perfect. That takes a lot of work and hurts a lot sometimes. It's easier with faith, but LDS and other Christians also have days and even years we wouldn't wish on anyone. And, of course, the greatest of us led a life of poverty, loss, humiliation, betrayal, torture and an early death.
Wow, nice display of a classic attempt to move the goalposts.  We still have no evidence of this god or that your magic spell on how to pray “correctly” works and now you want to claim that it’s not your god’s fault since it doesn’t promise to remove hardship.  Ah, now God doesn’t have to answer since you’ve declared that sincere prayers aren’t always answered. Funny how you said this before
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Well, then you heard it here first. Whatever prayer you're sincere about is the prayer God will answer. The outward manifestations of prayer are worlds less important than the inward sincerity. Let me be clear. You should pray to god without first accepting Jesus as Savior. Faith is the result of sincere prayer, not a prerequisite.
  You also try a common Christain bit of nonsense, that your god can somehow be equated to a human parent.  It’s the old “yes, no maybe” excuse for why prayers aren’t answered, always ignoring that your god says repeatedly that prayers will be answered positively and quickly.  Again, we see one more liar for Christ in that you try to ignore what your bible actually says to excuse its evident nonexistence.  And gee, such good believers supposedly have bad days and “years”, yep, everyone does and funny how we all do it equally, again showing your god makes no difference.  The “greatest” and the “worst” of humanity have had good days and bad and again, your “greatest” has no evidence that it even existed, so your claims again are baseless nonsense. 


   

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So, why believe? Why even seek faith if it doesn't remove our trials? I submit that we have a hard time in this world because it's a fallen world. Our natural home is with our Father in Heaven. This time of separation is an unnatural state and thus fraught with loneliness, doubt, confusion and pain. But, even in this life, God has promised to send us the Holy Spirit, also called the "Comforter." And he does comfort and give assurance of a world to come and a continuation of the relationships we cherish here.
Gee more of the usual Christain nonsense, baseless as always.  No evidence of any “fallen world”, no evidence of any creation, no evidence of anything in the bible is real, so indeed why believe this set of myths rather than any other?  We see no action of god so how is this world any different from some magical “natural home with God” (and nice example here of how Christians can’t quite figure out what their god really meant since they have no idea what their afterlife is, all contradicting the others).  You keep saying “god promised” but we again have yet to see any promise being fulfilled.  We only get more and more excuses from Christians, all sure that their version is the right one. 
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: I will not prove God exists
« Reply #376 on: October 04, 2011, 10:39:36 AM »
Whatever prayer you're sincere about is the prayer God will answer...... Let me be clear. You should pray to god without first accepting Jesus as Savior. Faith is the result of sincere prayer, not a prerequisite......3 sincere weeks is plenty.

Hello fizixgeek.  Long time no see.  About.....six weeks, in fact.

In that time, I've had no prayers answered.  Nor have I increased (or indeed developed) any faith.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?