Author Topic: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?  (Read 6806 times)

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Offline Rare96ws6

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2011, 09:22:43 PM »
 You wrote your interpretations of those verses Greybeard. Not all Christians would agree with your interpretations. I posted those verses because those are some that have been quoted to show that children go to Heaven. If god really loved little children as much as the Bible states that he does, then they would go to heaven.
 I once posted a question on a Christian forum as to why Christians don't kill their children to ensure Heaven for them. Not a single person on that site mentioned that we don't know for sure if children go to heaven. It is a horrible thought and question of course, but if children were really sent to Heaven when they die, then surely Christians do not have the faith they say they do.
Extrordinary claims require extrordinay evidence - Carl Sagan.

Offline Bagheera

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2011, 05:48:26 AM »
You wrote your interpretations of those verses Greybeard. Not all Christians would agree with your interpretations. I posted those verses because those are some that have been quoted to show that children go to Heaven. If god really loved little children as much as the Bible states that he does, then they would go to heaven.

God loves everyone, doesn't he? So... don't we all go to Heaven?

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2011, 05:19:18 PM »
If god really loved little children as much as the Bible states that he does, then they would go to heaven.
I would have to see clearer scripture than you have posted so far to believe that "God loved children." I can see none whatsoever.

As it is I would refer you to the folktales of Jephthah's Daughter (J'g:11:31-40) and Isaac (Gen:22) and other passages that I could mention in which it is clear that Yahweh accepted human sacrifice of the first born.

You must understand that children have only had a value since the softening of religion in the late 19th century. Before that, huge birth numbers made up for the natural attrition caused by ignorance of hygiene and disease (the people relied on "the Will of God" - we don't do that now...) and you will note from Leviticus 27:6 a monetary value was placed on children, but not until they reached one month old (any younger had no value.)

Quote
I once posted a question on a Christian forum as to why Christians don't kill their children to ensure Heaven for them. Not a single person on that site mentioned that we don't know for sure if children go to heaven.
This is precisely what I meant by "the softening of religion"

Quote
It is a horrible thought and question of course, but if children were really sent to Heaven when they die, then surely Christians do not have the faith they say they do.
It is not a secret that Christians believe that God believes what they do...
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Whateverman

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2011, 05:27:15 PM »
You wrote your interpretations of those verses Greybeard. Not all Christians would agree with your interpretations. I posted those verses because those are some that have been quoted to show that children go to Heaven. If god really loved little children as much as the Bible states that he does, then they would go to heaven.

God loves everyone, doesn't he? So... don't we all go to Heaven?

Thank you.  Took the words right outta my mouth, er, fingers.
God loves everyone, and sends us to Hell in spite of it.
There's no justification (beyond appeals to emotion) for the Biblical deity treating children any differently.
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Offline Rare96ws6

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2011, 12:46:42 AM »
According to Matthew Herod had all infants killed who were younger than 2 years old.

An angel appeared to Joseph (in a dream of course!) to get the hell out of there before Jesus is killed.

What happended to the 'innocents' that were killed by Herod. Did they go to heaven? Or did baby Jesus just save them because he was born days before them?

Obviously one of the angels leaked the story that the 'son of God' was about to be born but this does seem to be with approval from above. So Herod is spooked so he kills babies.

If the leak had not occurred then nobody would be none the wiser for at least 30 years. So why would this god allow babies to be killed for no reason. He could have given Herod an heart attack when Jesus was born!!

 Well, you see, god had to let Herod use free will since this is the most important trait god ever gave any of us according to many Christians. Don't worry about the fact that Bible states nothing in support of free will. It is to be assumed.
Extrordinary claims require extrordinay evidence - Carl Sagan.

Offline fishjie

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2011, 04:13:11 PM »
According to Matthew Herod had all infants killed who were younger than 2 years old.

An angel appeared to Joseph (in a dream of course!) to get the hell out of there before Jesus is killed.

What happended to the 'innocents' that were killed by Herod. Did they go to heaven? Or did baby Jesus just save them because he was born days before them?

Obviously one of the angels leaked the story that the 'son of God' was about to be born but this does seem to be with approval from above. So Herod is spooked so he kills babies.

If the leak had not occurred then nobody would be none the wiser for at least 30 years. So why would this god allow babies to be killed for no reason. He could have given Herod an heart attack when Jesus was born!!

 Well, you see, god had to let Herod use free will since this is the most important trait god ever gave any of us according to many Christians. Don't worry about the fact that Bible states nothing in support of free will. It is to be assumed.

Why is it to be assumed?

Off the top of my head, I can think of anti freewill examples such as the hardening of Pharaoh's heart, and obviously Judas Iscariot.     Not to mention, there are many Christian denominations which believe in predestination.    Finally, there's the obvious contradiction between omniscience and free will.   How can you be in control of your own destiny if God knows everything that's already going to happen?    Doesn't make sense, despite how hard apologists try to explain it away.

Offline Rare96ws6

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2011, 10:24:20 PM »
 I guess you did not realize I was joking.
Extrordinary claims require extrordinay evidence - Carl Sagan.

Offline fishjie

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2011, 04:30:59 PM »
damnit normally i'm the one who does stuff like that.

well played sir

Offline theFLEW

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2011, 01:10:38 PM »
As I understand it, the purpose was to fulfill the words of Jeremiah, found in Jeremiah 31:15, "Thus says the LORD: "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping.  Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more."  This action is further testiment to the wickedness of Herod.
"...and how much naivety, venerable, childlike and boundlessly stupid naivety there is in the scholar's belief in his superiority, in the good conscience of his tolerance, in the simply unsuspecting certainty with which his instinct treats the religious man as an inferior..." - F. Nietzsche

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2011, 01:20:23 PM »
As I understand it, the purpose was to fulfill the words of Jeremiah, found in Jeremiah 31:15, "Thus says the LORD: "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping.  Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more."  This action is further testiment to the wickedness of Herod.

so a little retconning to make things match up to supposed prophecy?  Bummer when actual evidence indicates this is just intentional deceit then.
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Offline Rare96ws6

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2011, 01:11:03 AM »
damnit normally i'm the one who does stuff like that.

well played sir

;)
Extrordinary claims require extrordinay evidence - Carl Sagan.

Offline Rare96ws6

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2011, 01:12:28 AM »
As I understand it, the purpose was to fulfill the words of Jeremiah, found in Jeremiah 31:15, "Thus says the LORD: "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping.  Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more."  This action is further testiment to the wickedness of Herod.

so a little retconning to make things match up to supposed prophecy?  Bummer when actual evidence indicates this is just intentional deceit then.

 No kidding. Why can't we be given simple dates, times of events and names...not the ramblings that look as though they came from someone half asleep? ;(
Extrordinary claims require extrordinay evidence - Carl Sagan.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2011, 11:48:50 AM »
hmmm, seems like more and more threads that Flew has decided to ignore, after of course telling us how he'll pray for us and how special he is since his god took care of him and ignored millions of others who actually do suffer and die. 
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Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2011, 02:15:33 PM »
You wrote your interpretations of those verses Greybeard. Not all Christians would agree with your interpretations. I posted those verses because those are some that have been quoted to show that children go to Heaven. If god really loved little children as much as the Bible states that he does, then they would go to heaven.

God loves everyone, doesn't he? So... don't we all go to Heaven?

Thank you.  Took the words right outta my mouth, er, fingers.
God loves everyone, and sends us to Hell in spite of it.
There's no justification (beyond appeals to emotion) for the Biblical deity treating children any differently.

The postulation that an omni-merciful and omni-benevolent god creature would send lesser creatures to an eternal torment in hell, is a flat out contradiction and incoherency. That god cannot exist and therefore does not exist.
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2011, 03:07:00 PM »
^^^^Yes, indeedy.

If I can't get an ant to figure out the right way to worship me and set it on fire as punishment, I can't very well argue that I am good. Good for what? Certainly not good for the ant, or for its little ant friends and family.

It is not even good as a lesson for the other ants because it still does not tell them how to properly worship me and avoid getting set on fire by the giant almighty magnifying glass. It just makes them terrified and run around trying desperately to do the right thing without knowing what in the hell that might be. Kinda like religious people in the world today.
Eat pork?
Christians=Yes! No problem.
Muslims and Jews=No! Hellfire.
Others=Maybe! Who knows?
Eat beef?
Hindus=Aghhhhh!
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2011, 03:19:06 PM »
nice summation of the argument, NGFM.  We have ants running around claimign that they can control the magnifying glass if you *just* do what they say.  And all of them haven't any more evidence that they can do what they claim than the next.
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Offline globalvalue

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2011, 09:42:30 PM »
God seems to have it in for the little ones.


Psalm 137:9
9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones
Against the rock.



Isaiah 13:16
16 Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces
Before their eyes;
Their houses will be plundered
And their wives ravished.

You're right!
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Offline globalvalue

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2011, 12:32:04 PM »
SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS......fiction!

Matthew 2:16-18
16 Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi. 17 Then what had been spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled:
 18 “A VOICE WAS HEARD IN RAMAH,
WEEPING AND GREAT MOURNING,
RACHEL WEEPING FOR HER CHILDREN;
AND SHE REFUSED TO BE COMFORTED,
BECAUSE THEY WERE NO MORE.”

Problems....
Ramah is about 10 miles away from Bethlehem.
Leah was the mother of the Jews, not Rachel.
If you read Jeremiah 31 where this quotation came from you will discover that the children are are not dead but are in captivity.

Once again the NT writers found a passage that they used to embellish the Jesus story to create a ficticious fulfillment of prophecy.
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Offline ungod

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Re: Why did'nt this god just slew Herod before he had infants killed?
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2011, 03:36:14 PM »
God seems to have it in for the little ones.

Quote
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

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