so... just because wwgha then you wont believe?

[jdcpe17]

To be honest to myself, my arguements for God tend to be somewhat self satisfying. In effect I am using you to try to argue that to myself that there is no God. Honestly that is what my body desires. With no God, i have no worries about "karma" or the afterlife. I dont have to care if i decide to break into someones house and shoot them, sell drugs, rob banks, anything. It doesnt matter. The world is my oyster and I can do anything my little cold heart desires.

Unfortunately to this effect, I have this constant nagging voice. It tells me God is real. It tells me to remember the things ive seen, the things Ive read, the things ive done.

So i take up the pro-god stance and I employ you to convince me otherwise. I WANT you to convince me otherwise. I really do.

Whatcha got?

[One Above All]

The website's question is just one of the many examples of how the Bible does not match reality.

The list of arguments against the existence of a god is miles long. From the existence of evil to the mere fact that gods (as described in their supposed books) are logically impossible.

[jdcpe17]

The website's question is just one of the many examples of how the Bible does not match reality.

The list of arguments against the existence of a god is miles long. From the existence of evil to the mere fact that gods (as described in their supposed books) are logically impossible.

im well read in science and medicine. the various random crazy things ive seen could make someone believe or not believe based on what they want. there is too much on either side. i need something else.

to state it more clearly, i wouldnt risk my eternal salvation on someone growing or not growing back a finger.

[One Above All]

im well read in science and medicine. the various random crazy things ive seen could make someone believe or not believe based on what they want. there is too much on either side. i need something else.

Actually there's nothing on the theist side apart from extremely flawed arguments.
To provide all arguments I can think of, you must first state your definition of "god". What are its proprieties?

[Nick]

Gee J17,

  I don't believe in your sky daddy and you don't see me raping and stealing things.  Hell, I don't even sell drugs.

  So you are trying to tell us that the only thing holding you back from doing all these terrible things is a God.

  That is pretty sad man.  Being a good or bad person should have nothing to do with your fear of Sky Daddy.

  I feel sorry for you, man.

[velkyn]

To be honest to myself, my arguements for God tend to be somewhat self satisfying. In effect I am using you to try to argue that to myself that there is no God. Honestly that is what my body desires. With no God, i have no worries about "karma" or the afterlife. I dont have to care if i decide to break into someones house and shoot them, sell drugs, rob banks, anything. It doesnt matter. The world is my oyster and I can do anything my little cold heart desires.

Oh boy, the usual idiotic theist desire to claim that atheists only want to be rebels and not follow rules. Sorry to break your little delusion, I am quite the law-abiding citizen.

Unfortunately to this effect, I have this constant nagging voice. It tells me God is real. It tells me to remember the things ive seen, the things Ive read, the things ive done.

  Golly, we all do that. So, again, no special snowflake medal for you.

So i take up the pro-god stance and I employ you to convince me otherwise. I WANT you to convince me otherwise. I really do. Whatcha got?

  Hmm, if there is a god that cares about its followers not bearing false witness, why are you still here and not smited like in the OT and NT? 

im well read in science and medicine. the various random crazy things ive seen could make someone believe or not believe based on what they want. there is too much on either side. i need something else.

Not from what your posts have demonstrated. 

to state it more clearly, i wouldnt risk my eternal salvation on someone growing or not growing back a finger.

  Pascal’s wager, built on fear and ignorance.  You think you’ve got the “right” god and the “right” way to worship it.  It isn’t totally about someone growing back a finger.  It is the fact that your bible is full of unfulfilled promises and outright lies and contradictions.

[jdcpe17]

im well read in science and medicine. the various random crazy things ive seen could make someone believe or not believe based on what they want. there is too much on either side. i need something else.

Actually there's nothing on the theist side apart from extremely flawed arguments.
To provide all arguments I can think of, you must first state your definition of "god". What are its proprieties?

I saw what looked like to me, the ghost of my friends grandmother fly through my bedroom laughing one night. i thought i was nuts and went back to sleep. I was 27 at the time. I got a call 2 hours later that his grandmother had died about 2 hours ago. I claim no ability in esp or astralprojections or anything. this is the first and only time something like that has ever happend to me.

to tell me that medical science shows there is no god doesnt help me.

what are the properties of God? i dunno man im trying to prove that there couldnt be any god at all. ive talked to my professors when that after open heart surgery when talking to their patient, the patient describes things they shouldnt know, like the color of someones smocks. laying on a table with their head up, conscious or not, it is not physically possible to see someones shoes. so when they describe floating in the room and looking down and seeing people rush around and mentioning the odd orange and green shoes, you have to think there must be something to it.

[jdcpe17]

Gee J17,

  I don't believe in your sky daddy and you don't see me raping and stealing things.  Hell, I don't even sell drugs.

  So you are trying to tell us that the only thing holding you back from doing all these terrible things is a God.

  That is pretty sad man.  Being a good or bad person should have nothing to do with your fear of Sky Daddy.

  I feel sorry for you, man.

why dont you do bad things? what is holding you back? a love of your poor neighbor? a BELIEF in the good of humanity? seriously i dont get it.

[Azdgari]

To be honest to myself, my arguements for God tend to be somewhat self satisfying. In effect I am using you to try to argue that to myself that there is no God. Honestly that is what my body desires. With no God, i have no worries about "karma" or the afterlife. I dont have to care if i decide to break into someones house and shoot them, sell drugs, rob banks, anything. It doesnt matter. The world is my oyster and I can do anything my little cold heart desires.

So what you are saying, is that you have no morality?  You have just stated that were it not for coercion - were it not for threats of punishment - you would not care about acting morally.  From the perspective of this atheist, that's frightening.

Are you sure that that's really why you behave morally?

[velkyn]

I saw what looked like to me, the ghost of my friends grandmother fly through my bedroom laughing one night. i thought i was nuts and went back to sleep. I was 27 at the time. I got a call 2 hours later that his grandmother had died about 2 hours ago. I claim no ability in esp or astralprojections or anything. this is the first and only time something like that has ever happend to me.

to tell me that medical science shows there is no god doesnt help me.

what are the properties of God? i dunno man im trying to prove that there couldnt be any god at all. ive talked to my professors when that after open heart surgery when talking to their patient, the patient describes things they shouldnt know, like the color of someones smocks. laying on a table with their head up, conscious or not, it is not physically possible to see someones shoes. so when they describe floating in the room and looking down and seeing people rush around and mentioning the odd orange and green shoes, you have to think there must be something to it.

^^^ all false stories.  And you are the one that claims your God exists.  Since you supposedly know it exists, then you know what it does and what it is.  No good in trying to claim "but I don't know" sicne you've already said you do. 

JD, do you know what empathy is? and I have evidence of the "good" of humanity, as well as evidence of the "bad" of it.  Do you hve any evidence at all other than your imagination?

[Nick]

Thats the problem.  You don't get it.  A lot of Buddist don't believe in a God but do you see them doing bad things?  There are plenty of so called Christians doing all kinds of bad stuff.  I believe it is part of our personality and make up along with environment that make us who we are.  I help people.  It is my profession.  I enjoy it.  I also volunteer.  Did 2 weeks in Joplin for the tonado.  You don't need fear to be a good person.  You just have a problem trying to get over the God watching thing.  You don't worry about Santa watching do you?

[jdcpe17]

To be honest to myself, my arguements for God tend to be somewhat self satisfying. In effect I am using you to try to argue that to myself that there is no God. Honestly that is what my body desires. With no God, i have no worries about "karma" or the afterlife. I dont have to care if i decide to break into someones house and shoot them, sell drugs, rob banks, anything. It doesnt matter. The world is my oyster and I can do anything my little cold heart desires.

Oh boy, the usual idiotic theist desire to claim that atheists only want to be rebels and not follow rules. Sorry to break your little delusion, I am quite the law-abiding citizen.

Unfortunately to this effect, I have this constant nagging voice. It tells me God is real. It tells me to remember the things ive seen, the things Ive read, the things ive done.

  Golly, we all do that. So, again, no special snowflake medal for you.

So i take up the pro-god stance and I employ you to convince me otherwise. I WANT you to convince me otherwise. I really do. Whatcha got?

  Hmm, if there is a god that cares about its followers not bearing false witness, why are you still here and not smited like in the OT and NT? 

im well read in science and medicine. the various random crazy things ive seen could make someone believe or not believe based on what they want. there is too much on either side. i need something else.

Not from what your posts have demonstrated. 

to state it more clearly, i wouldnt risk my eternal salvation on someone growing or not growing back a finger.

  Pascal’s wager, built on fear and ignorance.  You think you’ve got the “right” god and the “right” way to worship it.  It isn’t totally about someone growing back a finger.  It is the fact that your bible is full of unfulfilled promises and outright lies and contradictions.

then what do you believe and why?

[jdcpe17]

Thats the problem.  You don't get it.  A lot of Buddist don't believe in a God but do you see them doing bad things?  There are plenty of so called Christians doing all kinds of bad stuff.  I believe it is part of our personality and make up along with environment that make us who we are.  I help people.  It is my profession.  I enjoy it.  I also volunteer.  Did 2 weeks in Joplin for the tonado.  You don't need fear to be a good person.  You just have a problem trying to get over the God watching thing.  You don't worry about Santa watching do you?

ive seen many a buddist kicking bootay!

[One Above All]

I saw what looked like to me, the ghost of my friends grandmother fly through my bedroom laughing one night. i thought i was nuts and went back to sleep. I was 27 at the time. I got a call 2 hours later that his grandmother had died about 2 hours ago. I claim no ability in esp or astralprojections or anything. this is the first and only time something like that has ever happend to me.

This has nothing to do with what I asked, nor do I care about whatever hallucinations you had after waking up. I've seen some pretty crazy shit too in my dreams and after waking up.

to tell me that medical science shows there is no god doesnt help me.

I didn't mention medical science. Just pure logic.

what are the properties of God? i dunno man im trying to prove that there couldnt be any god at all. ive talked to my professors when that after open heart surgery when talking to their patient, the patient describes things they shouldnt know, like the color of someones smocks. laying on a table with their head up, conscious or not, it is not physically possible to see someones shoes. so when they describe floating in the room and looking down and seeing people rush around and mentioning the odd orange and green shoes, you have to think there must be something to it.

To prove something cannot exist you must define it first. If you want we can go with my definition: Omnipotent and omniscient.
Also, once again, I don't care about those stories. I can make up stories like that if I want to.

why dont you do bad things? what is holding you back? a love of your poor neighbor? a BELIEF in the good of humanity? seriously i dont get it.

I know this isn't directed at me but I still want to reply to this.
I do good simply because it's the right thing to do.

[jdcpe17]

I saw what looked like to me, the ghost of my friends grandmother fly through my bedroom laughing one night. i thought i was nuts and went back to sleep. I was 27 at the time. I got a call 2 hours later that his grandmother had died about 2 hours ago. I claim no ability in esp or astralprojections or anything. this is the first and only time something like that has ever happend to me.

to tell me that medical science shows there is no god doesnt help me.

what are the properties of God? i dunno man im trying to prove that there couldnt be any god at all. ive talked to my professors when that after open heart surgery when talking to their patient, the patient describes things they shouldnt know, like the color of someones smocks. laying on a table with their head up, conscious or not, it is not physically possible to see someones shoes. so when they describe floating in the room and looking down and seeing people rush around and mentioning the odd orange and green shoes, you have to think there must be something to it.

^^^ all false stories.  And you are the one that claims your God exists.  Since you supposedly know it exists, then you know what it does and what it is.  No good in trying to claim "but I don't know" sicne you've already said you do. 

JD, do you know what empathy is? and I have evidence of the "good" of humanity, as well as evidence of the "bad" of it.  Do you hve any evidence at all other than your imagination?

ive not written false tales. i dont expect you to believe me. to be honest i dont know what i saw, but that is the best way to describe it. crazy looking old lady flying and laughing. i wrote down about it the day after it happend so i know im not "remembering new things".

yes i know empathy. i dont care. i dont see the point in caring. if i am going to die and become dusty someday, what does it matter? ive recently read of a little girl killing herself so her family could have her organs. there have been dictators that have killed countless.

if there is no god, then these two people are equal. they are both dust.

[Nick]

Yep, you are right.  They both are dust.  Are you sure you are not selling drugs.  Flying old ladies sounds like a bad trip to me.

[jdcpe17]

To be honest to myself, my arguements for God tend to be somewhat self satisfying. In effect I am using you to try to argue that to myself that there is no God. Honestly that is what my body desires. With no God, i have no worries about "karma" or the afterlife. I dont have to care if i decide to break into someones house and shoot them, sell drugs, rob banks, anything. It doesnt matter. The world is my oyster and I can do anything my little cold heart desires.

So what you are saying, is that you have no morality?  You have just stated that were it not for coercion - were it not for threats of punishment - you would not care about acting morally.  From the perspective of this atheist, that's frightening.

Are you sure that that's really why you behave morally?

sounds about right actually. i am a very logical thinker.

if there is no "force" to punish me for doing "bad" things that would otherwise make my life better, then why not do it? Is that not what we do daily to cows? The going idea of "bad" (unless youre a PETA fan or Buddist) is that it is ok to kill and eat the flesh of cows. But if there is no "God" and honestly nothing to really distinguish you from other animals since you argue we are here from evolotion? in that respect, fish = cow = person. Eat, kill, whatever. doesnt matter. Might get hit with some animal cruety laws but otherwise thats about it right?

tell me how im wrong? why not eat human flesh since there is no god?

[jdcpe17]

Yep, you are right.  They both are dust.  Are you sure you are not selling drugs.  Flying old ladies sounds like a bad trip to me.

tell me how im wrong. if no God, then both die and cease. if God, then the dictator goes to hell and the girl goes to heaven.
 
tell me how im wrong.

[Nick]

Does it taste like chicken?

[One Above All]

tell me how im wrong? why not eat human flesh since there is no god?

Well, first of all because it's fucking[1] disgusting. Second of all because I do not enjoy causing harm to others.
By the way, if you enjoy causing harm to others, do you really think an omniscient god will let you into heaven just because you don't actually do it?

1.	Sorry for the language, but it's true

[One Above All]

tell me how im wrong. if no God, then both die and cease. if God, then the dictator goes to hell and the girl goes to heaven.
 
tell me how im wrong.

I don't see how you go from this to having no moral values of your own.

[jdcpe17]

if there is no god, why do you not do bad things?

if there is no god, we all become dust. self sacrificing girl and murderous dictator become the same dust.

if there is no god, then it should be ok to eat human flesh right? we are all animals. many animals are canibalistic. some human tribes are cannabls.

[velkyn]

then what do you believe and why?

Empathy.  I sympathize with others and feel their pain because I can imagine how it would be myself.  I know I would not want some one to do something “bad” to me so I don’t do it to others.  It’s too bad you don’t know what that’s like evidently.  I also don’t want to deal with being punished.  As a friend said in answer to this idiotic question of yours, “Why don’t I run amuck since I don’t believe in God?  Forensic teams.”  That’s why I drive the speed limit and so far, no tickets (I’m 45). 

So, JD, why did you lie about atheists and why doesn’t your god seem to care, after killing so many for disobeying him in the NT and OT?  Why do you believe in this god and not others? 

Ive not written false tales. i dont expect you to believe me. to be honest i dont know what i saw, but that is the best way to describe it. crazy looking old lady flying and laughing. i wrote down about it the day after it happend so i know im not "remembering new things".

so, you’ve remembered a dream and tried to spread more of that NDE nonsense which isn't true.

yes i know empathy. i dont care. i dont see the point in caring. if i am going to die and become dusty someday, what does it matter? ive recently read of a little girl killing herself so her family could have her organs. there have been dictators that have killed countless.

Wow, you must be one nasty selfish human being.  Glad I only know you virtually.  And what a sad story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43685557/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

A 12-year-old girl killed herself in order to donate her organs to family members, but was cremated before her wishes became known, according to a report. Mumpy Sarkar, from a village in West Bengal, India, took her life June 27 in the hope of providing organs for her father and brother.

   And no, those two people weren’t equal. Not at all.  One did good, one did bad.  And their actions will reverberate to others as we can see from the story.  I suppose I should be glad that you are fearful of your god.  Keeps you from being a murderous asshole, I guess.

[One Above All]

if there is no god, why do you not do bad things?

Because it's not right.

if there is no god, we all become dust. self sacrificing girl and murderous dictator become the same dust.

So?

if there is no god, then it should be ok to eat human flesh right? we are all animals. many animals are canibalistic. some human tribes are cannabls.

Once again, because it's fucking disgusting.

[Nick]

JD, just out of curiosity...how old are you?

[jdcpe17]

then what do you believe and why?

Empathy.  I sympathize with others and feel their pain because I can imagine how it would be myself.  I know I would not want some one to do something “bad” to me so I don’t do it to others.  It’s too bad you don’t know what that’s like evidently.  I also don’t want to deal with being punished.  As a friend said in answer to this idiotic question of yours, “Why don’t I run amuck since I don’t believe in God?  Forensic teams.”  That’s why I drive the speed limit and so far, no tickets (I’m 45). 

So, JD, why did you lie about atheists and why doesn’t your god seem to care, after killing so many for disobeying him in the NT and OT?  Why do you believe in this god and not others? 

Ive not written false tales. i dont expect you to believe me. to be honest i dont know what i saw, but that is the best way to describe it. crazy looking old lady flying and laughing. i wrote down about it the day after it happend so i know im not "remembering new things".

so, you’ve remembered a dream and tried to spread more of that NDE nonsense which isn't true.

yes i know empathy. i dont care. i dont see the point in caring. if i am going to die and become dusty someday, what does it matter? ive recently read of a little girl killing herself so her family could have her organs. there have been dictators that have killed countless.

Wow, you must be one nasty selfish human being.  Glad I only know you virtually.  And what a sad story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43685557/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

A 12-year-old girl killed herself in order to donate her organs to family members, but was cremated before her wishes became known, according to a report. Mumpy Sarkar, from a village in West Bengal, India, took her life June 27 in the hope of providing organs for her father and brother.

   And no, those two people weren’t equal. Not at all.  One did good, one did bad.  And their actions will reverberate to others as we can see from the story.  I suppose I should be glad that you are fearful of your god.  Keeps you from being a murderous asshole, I guess.

what if you know how the forensic science works and can basically stay undetected? very real possibility. then again there is no real threat of punishment. all you have done is take the punishing power from god and given it to the cops. what if youre smarter than the cops?

[Graybeard]

tell me how im wrong? why not eat human flesh since there is no god?

The bible spends quite a while describing how and when you should eat human flesh:

DEU  28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
 54So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:
 55So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
 56The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
 57And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

So why don't you Christians eat human flesh?

[jdcpe17]

if there is no god, why do you not do bad things?

Because it's not right.

says who? if its you saying its not right, then what if i eat you. now no one says its not right so its ok now, right?

[Nick]

Society makes rules to live by.  civilizations have done this for years.  Each culture is different and so are rules of acceptance.