Author Topic: God does heal amputees  (Read 27443 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2011, 09:38:28 AM »
Holy shit.  Hatter23 should change his name to ED-209.

Is that a positive or negative connotation?

Positive in this case, although now that I think about it, the actual ED-209 shredding was not a good thing.

OK, so you're ED-209's "good twin", I guess.
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2011, 09:40:50 AM »
No one dies before his time and there are no guarantees on our life.  Today is the best you can hope for.  When God demands your life back from you, there is nothing you can do to avoid it.  This is why today is the day to know Jesus Christ.  It's the second death which is permanent..but Gods gift is eternal life.

servantofgod, I live in a world where babies die in the wombs of their mothers due to natural causes. According to you this is the work of Yahweh since "No one dies before his time[...]." Why would your god murder prematurely demand they return that life? Is that fair? Is it fair that you get to experience decades of existence while their lives are snuffed out before they even take one breath?

What is the point in extinguishing the lives of children before they have a chance to learn about your god? "I think I'll create a child that will live a six year lifespan of malnourishment and pain. He won't have the mental capacity to even entertain the thought of my existence and will have his life end face down in the dirt where upon vultures will pick him apart." If you disagree with this idea about your god's thought process, please explain what you think goes through his head when he creates such fitting beginnings and ends for the lives of the creations he loves.

The world isn't watched over by an all loving deity, servantofgod. The world just exists.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2011, 09:42:05 AM »

Matthew 22:37-40

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Here is another passage speaking of the importance of love.  One of the most beautiful verses in the entire bible:

 1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

You just did go into it. Then you got smacked down, and now you're trying to back out.

I freely admit you may know more about the entymology of this word than I do.  However, I know your interpertation is not accurate.  The bible tells us this specifically:

John 4:20

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
Arugmenum ad nauseum, Begging the question, No True Scottsman, Appeal to Emotion, Ignoring the counterevidence

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 09:50:47 AM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2011, 09:42:25 AM »
I simply provided the proof you asked for when you stated that love wasn't important nor was it the greatest commandment. Now you you have changed your tune and are now asking for additional proof where before you simply stated it didn't exist at all.  The passage about the greatest commandment appears only once.  The meaning of a verse is not increased by its duplication.  It simply is the greatest commandment, once or one thousand times.  Here are some further passages stressing the importance of love:

I've changed nothing. You still have not shown that it is the greatest commandment. All you did was make some half-assed quotes that talked about love. It still does neither indicate that it is the greatest commandment, nor does it indicate any particular level of importance (especially since love is rarely actually shown in the bible, especially from god) over anything else. As I mentioned I can quote a lot more verses regarding Holy wars and rape. By the reasoning that you're showing this makes those among the greatest commandments as well. A point that I notice you ignored.

I have not changed my tune. You have created a strawman.

John 13:34-35

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Matthew 5:43-48,

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Luke 6:27-36

“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

   32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

None of which actually supports your assertion. You still do not show that it is the greatest commandment. At most all that you've shown is that god says that we should do it. Among the several hundred other things that we are told to do.

To repeat, simply quoting verses about love does not make them the greatest commandments, not do they even make them particularly important. Since you keep using this tactic, then I'm going to assume that you also believe that war and genocide are gods greatest commandments. Because apparently they are by your standards.

Even if you knew everything about every subject in the world, it would be for nothing, because you don't know God.  Here is your problem:

1 Corinthians 2:14

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You don't know anything about god either you realize? Everything that you think you know about god you've made up. We know this because you have no actual evidence of anything that you say. Without evidence nothing you say is any different from a mental illness. No, before you bring it up, personal experiences are not evidence of anything. So since you have no evidence and cannot provide you would have to, if you were actually an honest person, admit that you do not know anything and are simply making assertions. Since you don't seem to have a single scrap of honesty within you though, I won't expect such a thing from you.

Since you claim to follow the word of god so closely, why are you even here? After all, we're non-believers.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." 2 Cor 6:14-17

Or more to the point, why don't you go around killing the people who don't believe? You said that your parents don't believe, why are they still alive?

""If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." Dt 13:6-10

Do you have children? If you do I assume that you won't hesitate to beat them to death if they get out of line, right?

"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14

What about killing people who work on Sundays? Do you do that? Do you kill the babies of non-believers? Like I said, you're a liar and a hypocrite. You try so hard to devise all of these ways to get around what the bible says, buit it doesn't really work does it, all you can do is fall back on fallacy and your own limited mind.

How did this ever get to 3 pages?

I really loved the "I was a heroin addict" "ME TOO" bit. "I can't be outdone". Priceless! Reminds me of the one about  the optimist and pessimist drunks, they fall down blind drunk, one can see the stars, the other the gutter. All about perspective eh SoGgy? Problem is, the one who can see the gutter is the realist. You? You can't face the reality of your position.

I wouldn't take it too seriously. He's lied so much I don't even think he knows what he's saying anymore. He's saying whatever he thinks it'll take to convert us. He seems to need it to somehow validate himself.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #91 on: May 11, 2011, 09:44:53 AM »

I have not held back the truth, which is this:

You can know Christ, personally, today, by calling upon His in prayer and asking Him to reveal Himself to you.

Arugmenum ad nauseum, Begging the question

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

Hatter, don't begrudge the poor man his fallacies. He's got so little else, think of it as charity.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline screwtape

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #92 on: May 11, 2011, 12:26:17 PM »
It's a little bit of both, Az, but the true meaning of my presence here is to bring them to the Lord.

wow.  That is quite a responsibility you have there.  You, of all people, have actually been called (by the lord, no less!) to witness to your family, to save them from eternal damnation.  Man.  You are like some kind of spiritual John McClane[1], or a John Wayne for jesus!

This sort of delusion of grandeur is what makes religion, xianity in particular, so attractive.  It makes you think you are a superhero hand picked by god to take on important missions in the cosmic struggle of Good vs Evil.  When the reality is you are just a regular guy with regular problems.  You have a regular, boring job, a boring (kind of plain) wife, insufferable kids, a crappy house, clothing somewhat less stylish than the Matrix, and no hobbies to speak of.  Your delusions make you feel important.  They give you an escape from that.  They promise you riches[2]. They give you a sense of purpose. 

I've seen this before in LARPers. Don't know what LARPing is?  It is Live Action Role Playing.  It is is where the biggest geeks you have ever seen in your life dress up in armor, pretend to be elves or wizards or knights and whack each other with foam swords in public parks.  Check out the documentary Darkon.  You, my friend, are LARPing.  Your LARP has a different theme and you don't realize you are doing it.  But you are LARPing.



 1. ref: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095016/
 2. ...after you are dead, of course, when there is no possible hope of knowing whether that promise is valid
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Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #93 on: May 11, 2011, 12:41:47 PM »

I've seen this before in LARPers. Don't know what LARPing is?  It is Live Action Role Playing.  It is is where the biggest geeks you have ever seen in your life dress up in armor, pretend to be elves or wizards or knights and whack each other with foam swords in public parks.  Check out the documentary Darkon.  You, my friend, are LARPing.  Your LARP has a different theme and you don't realize you are doing it.  But you are LARPing.

As someone who's done this and have several friends who engage in it, I find this comparison between LARPing and religion thoroughly insulting. Also highly inaccurate since LARPer's are perfectly aware that they're acting out a fantasy among other problems with the analogy.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline mram

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #94 on: May 11, 2011, 12:51:10 PM »
So what are your plans after being a witness? Taking care of family to do what exactly? Dance and sing and celebrate they're all going to burn in hell in torment and torture and smoke and fire and all that forever and ever and ever?  I bet they're really appreciative of the gesture..  &)
Imagine gaining favor with "Darwin's"...kind of like praying, huh?

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Offline screwtape

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #95 on: May 11, 2011, 12:53:46 PM »
As someone who's done this and have several friends who engage in it, I find this comparison between LARPing and religion thoroughly insulting. Also highly inaccurate since LARPer's are perfectly aware that they're acting out a fantasy among other problems with the analogy.

Take it easy, pointdexter.  No need to unsheath your magic missile bean bags.  I took pains to make the distinction that LARPers know they are in a fantasy[1] and religious kooks, like sog, do not.  You even quoted that part. 




 1. though for sure you could find a few LARPers for whom the line is blurry.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2011, 12:57:40 PM »
As someone who's done this and have several friends who engage in it, I find this comparison between LARPing and religion thoroughly insulting. Also highly inaccurate since LARPer's are perfectly aware that they're acting out a fantasy among other problems with the analogy.

Take it easy, pointdexter.  No need to unsheath your magic missile bean bags.  I took pains to make the distinction that LARPers know they are in a fantasy[1] and religious kooks, like sog, do not.  You even quoted that part.
 1. though for sure you could find a few LARPers for whom the line is blurry.

If we ever meet in real life Screwtape, I am so going to shove my +5 Holy Avenger right up your ass.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #97 on: May 11, 2011, 01:01:31 PM »

I've seen this before in LARPers. Don't know what LARPing is?  It is Live Action Role Playing.  It is is where the biggest geeks you have ever seen in your life dress up in armor, pretend to be elves or wizards or knights and whack each other with foam swords in public parks.  Check out the documentary Darkon.  You, my friend, are LARPing.  Your LARP has a different theme and you don't realize you are doing it.  But you are LARPing.

As someone who's done this and have several friends who engage in it, I find this comparison between LARPing and religion thoroughly insulting. Also highly inaccurate since LARPer's are perfectly aware that they're acting out a fantasy among other problems with the analogy.

Larping, it is where geeks go to get any sort of cardio-vascular and still be a geek at the same time. I think that's a good thing.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #98 on: May 11, 2011, 01:08:41 PM »

Larping, it is where geeks go to get any sort of cardio-vascular and still be a geek at the same time. I think that's a good thing.

Laser Tag.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline screwtape

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #99 on: May 11, 2011, 01:12:59 PM »
If we ever meet in real life Screwtape, I am so going to shove my +5 Holy Avenger right up your ass.

So much for your nerdcred.  An atheist could not weild a Holy Avenger. 

Anyway, back on topic...
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Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #100 on: May 11, 2011, 01:21:59 PM »
If we ever meet in real life Screwtape, I am so going to shove my +5 Holy Avenger right up your ass.

So much for your nerdcred.  An atheist could not weild a Holy Avenger. 

Anyway, back on topic...

Actually yours. A Holy Avenger only requires a good alignment and works best in the hands of a paladin (which is when it becomes a +5 weapon as opposed to it's traditional +2). And since paladins don't have to actually worship a god then it makes it a perfectly acceptable weapon for an atheist character. Furthermore, even if there was some restriction such as that, it would not mean that you couldn't wield it. Just that it's powers would not work for you. Your nerdfu is very weak, grasshopper.

More on topic now, I've noticed in SoG's rantings that he keeps insistently trying to defend that gods ultimate commandment is love to me in order to refute the part about Jesus telling his followers to hate.

Now SoG, I want you to seriously take a minute and think about this. Go back and look at all of the hoops that you've been jumping through to show that that particular verse does not mean what it says that it means...........

Ok, did you do that? Good, not let me ask you something.

Do you honestly find all of that to be a better, simpler, and more likely answer than the fact that the bible was written by many people, with many different priorities, who were making stuff up?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 01:24:01 PM by Alzael »
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline mram

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #101 on: May 11, 2011, 01:34:05 PM »
I'm beginning to think sog has given up on us fire breathing, demonic eaters of new born flesh of humans...Maybe the cops nabbed him so we can have one of those cool baby sacrifices that Newts preacher talks about!  ;D
Anyone got a baby handy they don't need anymore?  :o
Imagine gaining favor with "Darwin's"...kind of like praying, huh?

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #102 on: May 11, 2011, 02:23:53 PM »
I'm beginning to think sog has given up on us fire breathing, demonic eaters of new born flesh of humans...Maybe the cops nabbed him so we can have one of those cool baby sacrifices that Newts preacher talks about!  ;D
Anyone got a baby handy they don't need anymore?  :o

Nup today was trashday and cleaned the leftovers out of the fridge last night. I swear, when baby face gets moldy it gives me the creeps
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline hickdive

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #103 on: May 11, 2011, 04:25:00 PM »
Anyone got a baby handy they don't need anymore?  :o

Join the EAC today and have a fresh one sent by Fedex to your doorstep within 48 hours. That's not all, you'll also receive this handsome clock



and a set of steak knives!



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Offline LadyLucy

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #104 on: May 11, 2011, 05:13:17 PM »

Larping, it is where geeks go to get any sort of cardio-vascular and still be a geek at the same time. I think that's a good thing.

Laser Tag.

Bring it on, nerd. -Uses inhaler-

On-topic: SoG, why do you want us to believe in your deity and not another one? I've asked this question to many other theists. They either:

A. Did not answer me on purpose [I.E. No clue as to how to answer]
B. Ignored me, because they thought I was trolling
C. They simply never answered me out of anger

How about it? If you think you are so honest, please answer me. I have not received any answer to this day.


Offline pianodwarf

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #105 on: May 11, 2011, 05:29:09 PM »
For instance, I was agnostic for most of my life, when God suddenly revealed Himself to me.

Did you press charges?
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Offline Historicity

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #106 on: May 11, 2011, 06:41:12 PM »
I've just read the thread and my impression is that I like servantofgod's family.  They are glad their little boy is off heroin and into something that is less lethal (in modern  context) and it is just darling that he thinks he is "taking care of them" when I am pretty sure he is back living at home and in real world terms they are taking care of him.

That is, he does not even hint that he contributes to buying the groceries.  Does he mow the lawn?

So they patiently and tolerantly tolerate his sloganeering.

Setting aside whatever rank the virtue of love has as a commandment, I think his famlly is manifesting it in deed.

"By their works ye shall know them."   That's in the Bible somewhere.  Instead of looking it up and seeing what kind of works were indicated, I will use the Christian method and leave it out of context and spin it nicely.

Offline Historicity

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #107 on: May 11, 2011, 06:55:46 PM »
No, I can't.  It goes against my nature.  Here it is:
Quote
Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.



7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
So, as i suspected, it's mostly about the works of evil people while above I misquoted and applied it to good people.

On second thought I'm glad I reread that. "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit" is an astoundingly stupid thing to say.

Good intentions and purity of heart can produce horrible results if you f&#* it up.  Even Ned Flanders saw that when his neighbors rebuilt his house horribly.  It also contradicts one of the premises of The Wealth of Nations that, for instance, the butcher is making food available to you because he wants to make a profit. 

On third thought, it's not astoundingly stupid, it's just simperingly stupid.



Offline Death over Life

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2011, 10:26:01 PM »
No, I can't.  It goes against my nature.  Here it is:
Quote
Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.



7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
So, as i suspected, it's mostly about the works of evil people while above I misquoted and applied it to good people.

On second thought I'm glad I reread that. "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit" is an astoundingly stupid thing to say.

Good intentions and purity of heart can produce horrible results if you f&#* it up.  Even Ned Flanders saw that when his neighbors rebuilt his house horribly.  It also contradicts one of the premises of The Wealth of Nations that, for instance, the butcher is making food available to you because he wants to make a profit. 

On third thought, it's not astoundingly stupid, it's just simperingly stupid.

Hey bro! I had to +1 this post up because thinking on it, you just revealed to me ANOTHER contradiction in the Bible!

As you have said (erhm, Matthew):

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Alright, so how does this fall in with the Garden of Eden story in Genesis?

Genesis 1:

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So, here in Ch.1 it is shown that Adam and Eve were good, created good. Because they are good, the can not bring forth evil fruits.

Go to Ch.3:

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


So, apparently, they brought forth evil fruit, eating off the knowledge of good and evil tree. How could they have done this if they were made good and that good trees can not bear bad fruit?

Either that, or it is good to sin and that Adam and Eve did sin, because this was all set up by God to begin with, so God is saying that it is good to sin against him.

Pretty confusing god to say the least imhaho.

Offline Astreja

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #109 on: May 12, 2011, 12:20:37 AM »
So call out to Him and He will come.

How does one distinguish between a real Jesus and an imagined one?  Neither one seems to be healing any amputees.

You know Him.  Believe me, if Jesus comes to you you won't be wondering if it was real or not.  His sheep know His voice.  He has set it on me to tell you that He will prove it to you.  Pray like this:  Jesus, if you're real, I want to know about it.  I want to know you.  Please let me know you're real.  God bless.

No, Servantofgod... I have a much better idea.

(pauses to put Her archetypal Evil Genius Fluffy White Cat, Ludwig von Snow, in Her lap)

I completely lack faith in the stuff and whatnot of Christianity.  Completely and utterly.  I literally couldn't say that prayer with a straight face, because I honestly believe it to be nonsense.

You, on the other hand, claim to have the real thing.  This is what I want you to do:

Simply pray "Jesus, please restore both legs to one double amputee in my city."

(Scratches Ludwig behind the ears) That's it.  That's all you have to do.  If it doesn't come to pass, perhaps you got a counterfeit Jesus too.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:22:31 AM by Astreja »
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #110 on: May 12, 2011, 12:54:11 AM »
Bit of background...SoG said:

He has set it on me to tell you that He will prove it to you.  Pray like this:  Jesus, if you're real, I want to know about it.  I want to know you.  Please let me know you're real.  God bless.

I did.  I used those exact words.  I was quite sincere.  If Jesus exists, I DO want to know it.

But nothing has happened.

I asked SoG what now?

In a PM, he said:
I can tell you're being honest, that you do want to know if Jesus is real.  Let me ask you this question: 

If God revealed Himself to you, would you witness to these people?  Would you put down your pride as an intellectual and preach His gospel to the lost sheep? 

I replied to say that I would not speak in PMs - all of you who recall the Fran situation will understand why.  Then I got this:

In other words, you're not interested in knowing the Lord.  You wish to have an audience to earn the praise of men.  From now on, please don't wonder why the Lord hasn't revealed Himself to you..

ServantofGod, I asked Jesus in all sincerity to reveal himself to me, using the exact words that YOU said would be guaranteed to work.  They didn't.  I asked you to explain.  You didn't.

What you DID was to first say "would you let everyone know it happened" - and then slammed me for WANTING to share the experience.  You can't have it both ways my friend - either you want me to share the truth of my experience with others, or you don't.....or is it that you ONLY want me to share things that fit your views, and supress anything that does not?

So I say to you again - I prayed EXACTLY as you said.  And nothing happened.  WHY NOT? 

And, I say to you here and now.  If I pray, and I get a response, then I will let everyone know.  I am not a fearful coward who will speak in public only those things he has held dear.  If I were visitied by Christ, I would shout if from the rooftops - I would, ask you say, witness and "preach the gospel to the lost sheep".  Anyone here will vouch for my integrity in that - and indeed you yourself said you could tell I was honest.

Yet all of a sudden - because I asked you to explain in public why the promise you gave us, that you claim god promised you, did not come to pass.  And I wonder whether, in fact, it is YOU that needs the praise of men, and will only speak when things go right. 

How prideful are you, ServantofGod?  I prayed the way you told me to - the way you say God told you to tell me to - and nothing happened.  You - and god - PROMISED me I would hear on that day.  I did everything you claim God wanted.....and nothing happened.

What am I supposed to think?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Death over Life

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #111 on: May 12, 2011, 01:20:34 AM »
I think we scared him away.

Anfauglir hit the nail on the head!

Oh yeah, we should think that sog is a liar, a fool, and is deluded.

Last, but not least, a hypocrite especially since he came on here saying he can prove to us his' personal god can heal amputees, and then he doesn't show us the evidence, and then we try his revelations of praying that the god reveals himself to us for simply asking, and yet nothing happens.

I think we should have done this: In Jesus' Name!

sog, if you are still here, at least pay very close attention to the 3 minute mark on to the end.


Offline servantofgod

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #112 on: May 12, 2011, 01:42:46 AM »
You would shout it from the rooftops?  Those are beautiful words to hear.  I hope you remember them.  In regards to timing, give it time.  Just have faith that if He exists He heard you and will come to you in due time.  I can't tell you anything about Gods timing because I don't understand anything about it, other than it is always perfect.

I was called to say those words to people that day, which is why I said them to you.  He did not tell me anything about timing; all I know you is that you will not be disappointed.

Bit of background...SoG said:

He has set it on me to tell you that He will prove it to you.  Pray like this:  Jesus, if you're real, I want to know about it.  I want to know you.  Please let me know you're real.  God bless.

I did.  I used those exact words.  I was quite sincere.  If Jesus exists, I DO want to know it.

But nothing has happened.

I asked SoG what now?

In a PM, he said:
I can tell you're being honest, that you do want to know if Jesus is real.  Let me ask you this question: 

If God revealed Himself to you, would you witness to these people?  Would you put down your pride as an intellectual and preach His gospel to the lost sheep? 

I replied to say that I would not speak in PMs - all of you who recall the Fran situation will understand why.  Then I got this:

In other words, you're not interested in knowing the Lord.  You wish to have an audience to earn the praise of men.  From now on, please don't wonder why the Lord hasn't revealed Himself to you..

ServantofGod, I asked Jesus in all sincerity to reveal himself to me, using the exact words that YOU said would be guaranteed to work.  They didn't.  I asked you to explain.  You didn't.

What you DID was to first say "would you let everyone know it happened" - and then slammed me for WANTING to share the experience.  You can't have it both ways my friend - either you want me to share the truth of my experience with others, or you don't.....or is it that you ONLY want me to share things that fit your views, and supress anything that does not?

So I say to you again - I prayed EXACTLY as you said.  And nothing happened.  WHY NOT? 

And, I say to you here and now.  If I pray, and I get a response, then I will let everyone know.  I am not a fearful coward who will speak in public only those things he has held dear.  If I were visitied by Christ, I would shout if from the rooftops - I would, ask you say, witness and "preach the gospel to the lost sheep".  Anyone here will vouch for my integrity in that - and indeed you yourself said you could tell I was honest.

Yet all of a sudden - because I asked you to explain in public why the promise you gave us, that you claim god promised you, did not come to pass.  And I wonder whether, in fact, it is YOU that needs the praise of men, and will only speak when things go right. 

How prideful are you, ServantofGod?  I prayed the way you told me to - the way you say God told you to tell me to - and nothing happened.  You - and god - PROMISED me I would hear on that day.  I did everything you claim God wanted.....and nothing happened.

What am I supposed to think?

Offline servantofgod

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #113 on: May 12, 2011, 01:50:57 AM »
Life from Death, witness the parable of the sower:

While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: 5 “A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. 6 Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown

When he said this, he called out, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”

This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

The passage I highlighted applies to you.  Here is your answer:

John 6:39

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Jesus has not forgotten you.  He has not abandoned you, and He will not give you up to the evil one.  Though you have forsaken Him, He has never forsaken you. 

Brother, I was elected.  God is more real to me than I am to myself.  No lie will darken the light I have been given by our Lord Jesus Christ.  Though you are deceived, you will be delivered from evil.  God bless.



I think we scared him away.

Anfauglir hit the nail on the head!

Oh yeah, we should think that sog is a liar, a fool, and is deluded.

Last, but not least, a hypocrite especially since he came on here saying he can prove to us his' personal god can heal amputees, and then he doesn't show us the evidence, and then we try his revelations of praying that the god reveals himself to us for simply asking, and yet nothing happens.

I think we should have done this: In Jesus' Name!

sog, if you are still here, at least pay very close attention to the 3 minute mark on to the end.



Offline hickdive

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #114 on: May 12, 2011, 01:53:42 AM »
Can I have an answer to my question please?
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline servantofgod

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #115 on: May 12, 2011, 01:59:46 AM »
Can I have an answer to my question please?

What was your question?