Author Topic: God does heal amputees  (Read 27006 times)

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Offline Lisa

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #406 on: June 01, 2011, 12:35:44 PM »
Jesus Christ is Almighty God, He is the bodily expression of the GodHead.  He is God period. He will anyone who is willing to come to Him in faith! 

If any of you doubt this, you may email me at JesusisLord@mailinator.com and I will happilly pray for you -- that the One and only True God Jesus Christ may open your eyes that you may see that He is real, that He is Love, and that He heals all who come to Him in faith!

I never did believe in middle men, I always went straight to the top when I had faith.  And I prayed, and I prayed, and I prayed, and it still resulted in my daughters death.  Are you telling me this is what a loving god does to those who come to him in faith? 
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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #407 on: June 01, 2011, 09:45:39 PM »
JesusIsLord, I hope you do come back because I have a question and I hate using e-mail. How much faith is good enough for this god to do his loving deeds in our lives? You'd probably go on to quote the book of Job or Ecclesiastes, or something, or say we needed more faith when we hit a rough patch in the road. But to those who had very strong faith and prayed to god on a daily basis, thanking him for everything and giving up their time to go to church to hear his "good word" without even so much of a fight with their parents to get out of going, but simply wanted to go because of the agape love they had for this god figure. What is good enough for him? We have had faith, and we gave him a lot of our time and he still let us down. He doesn't seem like a loving godhead to me if he requires so much faith to give me a favor. I did my job in worshiping him, but he never did his. About loving: there are times when my husband pisses me the fuck but I still love him and would do anything for him regardless. but with god, for whatever reason, if we don't have enough faith in his eyes, but enough for us to think he loves us, he will completely do nothing for us because we don't meet his standards that he has placed so high. It's not our fault we lost our faith in him. He, if he is real, proved that he doesn't deserve our faith.

Some love. The whole "come to him in faith" thing pisses me off. No one has the right to say that we as atheists have never sought god with faith. Some of us have. No one has the right to say that he is "love" without knowing us personally and knowing that  even when we did have faith the world seems the same now, or seems better than, it ever did while sitting in the pew.

Face it, JesusisLord. You're barking up the wrong tree.
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Offline mram

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #408 on: June 02, 2011, 02:30:10 AM »
I'll pray for you JesusIsLord to turn into a gold statue!

Well, if we're making wishes to the Magic Genie in the Sky, may as well ask for a Diamond Statue.
We'll split the difference.. A gold statue with diamond eyes, fingernails and a big ruby belly button.   ;)
Imagine gaining favor with "Darwin's"...kind of like praying, huh?

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Offline MatCauthon

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #409 on: June 03, 2011, 11:06:13 AM »
I was going to ask why you guys even bother, but after some deliberation, I have concluded that you can't let retards like that come into your house and trash it without saying a word.

Offline velkyn

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #410 on: June 03, 2011, 11:10:50 AM »
I was going to ask why you guys even bother, but after some deliberation, I have concluded that you can't let retards like that come into your house and trash it without saying a word.

yep, remaining quiet about stupidity will definitely do nothing to stop it.  Even though countering theists probably doesn't do that much, at least it is *something*.
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Offline Death over Life

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #411 on: June 03, 2011, 10:36:18 PM »
Well, much better arguing like this than putting theist's head on stakes like they've done to non-believers for CENTURIES, don't you think?

Offline Grogs

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #412 on: June 04, 2011, 10:48:42 AM »
I was going to ask why you guys even bother, but after some deliberation, I have concluded that you can't let retards like that come into your house and trash it without saying a word.

Well, it's not like they're literally pissing on the drapes or anything. If it were just the 'unwavering, unshakeable' christians who were posting the nonsense, I doubt most of us would even care. Let them run around with their hands over their heads like some ten year old who just won his first fist fight if it makes them feel better. But the thing is that for poster like SoG who comes in and makes their posts, there are probably others who are lurking. Some of these spectators are probably more honest than the unwavering christians who will tie their brain into any logical knot necessary to continue their belief in god, the infallibility of the bible, creationism, etc. When they see logical counterarguments presented and a reply that amounts to "Nuh Uh!" these lurkers might examine their beliefs and honestly follow the evidence rather than blindly following the dogma pushed by their parents. So while arguing with Sog or the like seems like an exercise in futility, it often has consequences which might not be realized for months, if ever.

Offline rogerthedodger

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #413 on: June 05, 2011, 05:32:04 PM »
If God did heal an amputee, would you know about it?  Do you have a list of every amputee in the world and what happens to them?  Why do you think God wouldn't do it?  Do you think He can't do it?
Are you really suggesting that God has replaced a lost limb?  Recently?  Tell you what, if I were to see an original lost arm, along with its owner, complete with replacement arm, and all 10 fingerprints, both palm-prints, and all moles etc were an exact match, then I may well be converted.

If you want to know if Jesus is real or not, put Him to the test.  With a sincere heart, pray to Him like this:

Jesus, if you do exist I want to know about it and I want to know you.  Please reveal yourself to me Jesus;  show me that you're real.

If you you do that Jesus will show you that He is real and that He is Almighty God.  Here is a word for you:

Matthew 11:28

Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest

God bless.
That's a really nice sentiment.  Truly.  See - I am balanced and open-minded ;)

Offline MatCauthon

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #414 on: June 06, 2011, 10:18:04 AM »
I was going to ask why you guys even bother, but after some deliberation, I have concluded that you can't let retards like that come into your house and trash it without saying a word.

Well, it's not like they're literally pissing on the drapes or anything. If it were just the 'unwavering, unshakeable' christians who were posting the nonsense, I doubt most of us would even care. Let them run around with their hands over their heads like some ten year old who just won his first fist fight if it makes them feel better. But the thing is that for poster like SoG who comes in and makes their posts, there are probably others who are lurking. Some of these spectators are probably more honest than the unwavering christians who will tie their brain into any logical knot necessary to continue their belief in god, the infallibility of the bible, creationism, etc. When they see logical counterarguments presented and a reply that amounts to "Nuh Uh!" these lurkers might examine their beliefs and honestly follow the evidence rather than blindly following the dogma pushed by their parents. So while arguing with Sog or the like seems like an exercise in futility, it often has consequences which might not be realized for months, if ever.

I hadn't thought of that, good point.  Is there a thread with people who saw reason and converted due to what they read on this site/forum?

Offline Don_Quixote

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #415 on: June 06, 2011, 11:27:37 AM »
I am one of those.

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #416 on: June 06, 2011, 11:57:26 AM »
I hadn't thought of that, good point.  Is there a thread with people who saw reason and converted due to what they read on this site/forum?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,29.0.html
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Karl

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #417 on: June 07, 2011, 12:18:02 PM »
I never did believe in middle men, I always went straight to the top when I had faith.  And I prayed, and I prayed, and I prayed, and it still resulted in my daughters death.  Are you telling me this is what a loving god does to those who come to him in faith?
Lisa, it is a long thread but somehow I stumbled over your message. I am not a preacher, more of a born atheist. I honestly feel sorry for your loss. If you feel offended by my post please be assured that that is not my intention.

I just have to ask you one question that I think is important. It is very personal and again please do not be offended. As you say yourself, you prayed. And you were deceived. Now are you angry with god or have you realized that he simply does not exist?

Offline Lisa

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #418 on: June 09, 2011, 11:25:20 AM »
I never did believe in middle men, I always went straight to the top when I had faith.  And I prayed, and I prayed, and I prayed, and it still resulted in my daughters death.  Are you telling me this is what a loving god does to those who come to him in faith?
Lisa, it is a long thread but somehow I stumbled over your message. I am not a preacher, more of a born atheist. I honestly feel sorry for your loss. If you feel offended by my post please be assured that that is not my intention.

I just have to ask you one question that I think is important. It is very personal and again please do not be offended. As you say yourself, you prayed. And you were deceived. Now are you angry with god or have you realized that he simply does not exist?

Karl,
At the time, 1983, I still believed in god, and was just very angry, but made the typical excuses for him.  That my daughter would have faced a horrible life somehow if allowed to live, so was better off in heaven, or would have been abducted and her whereabouts never known to me, which would have been worse than death.   I think this is pretty typical of believers to rationalize for god.   

Over the years, my faith lessened, due to an increase in the lack of evidence that there was a god watching over us.  IE:  wars, poverty, starvation, sickness, abuse, suicides, etc.  But like any good addict, I had to "hit bottom" first and realize that god does not exist.   So I can no longer be angry.   
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #419 on: June 12, 2011, 09:55:27 AM »
You'd probably go on to quote the book of Job or Ecclesiastes, or something,

I'll quote it....

Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do.
Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil.
Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun— all your meaningless days (9:7-9).

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline EV

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #420 on: June 13, 2011, 03:36:52 AM »
Okay screw JesusIsLord, I'm going to email him... It should be quite amusing. Also, it's good revision as I have a philosophy exam tomorrow ;)
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Offline Karl

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #421 on: June 13, 2011, 06:58:45 AM »
Karl,
At the time, 1983, I still believed in god, ... , I had to "hit bottom" first and realize that god does not exist. So I can no longer be angry.   
Thank you for your answer.

Offline Benny

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #422 on: June 15, 2011, 01:40:25 PM »
What I mean about taking care of my family is this..I am here to witness to them.  My mother is an agnostic, my sister an atheist, my brother an atheist and my father is an atheist.  Currently, I have been called to witness to them.  After this, I will go where He calls me next.
Does Jesus have you on speed dial?  No?  Then how do you know that you have been called to witness them?  How will you know where to go next?
I'm here every now and again.
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Offline jdcpe17

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #423 on: July 07, 2011, 02:28:43 PM »
Quote
God, and by God I mean the judeo-christian God, is not limited.  Nothing is too difficult for Him to do.  He is God Almighty and can do anything.  It is just as easy for Him to heal an amputee as it is to raise someone from the dead.  The bible has testimony of several miracles which were of a greater order than healing a lost limb, so why this particular case is noteworthy to atheists I have no idea.

It is the Bible and its stories themselves which are in need of verification, SoG.  This website's question is one way of verifying them.  And they fail the test, when put to it.

Why would a real god choose to fail such a test, when it could succeed?

Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.
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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #424 on: July 07, 2011, 02:30:11 PM »
Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Correction: It would be pretty good verification, IF it were true.
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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #425 on: July 07, 2011, 02:30:34 PM »
Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Would you care to give examples?
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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #426 on: July 07, 2011, 02:58:51 PM »
Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #427 on: July 07, 2011, 03:05:21 PM »
Quote
God, and by God I mean the judeo-christian God, is not limited.  Nothing is too difficult for Him to do.  He is God Almighty and can do anything.  It is just as easy for Him to heal an amputee as it is to raise someone from the dead.  The bible has testimony of several miracles which were of a greater order than healing a lost limb, so why this particular case is noteworthy to atheists I have no idea.

It is the Bible and its stories themselves which are in need of verification, SoG.  This website's question is one way of verifying them.  And they fail the test, when put to it.

Why would a real god choose to fail such a test, when it could succeed?

Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Remember the context of the exchange you quoted, jdcpe17:  The site's question, WWGHA.  It is also the name of this thread.  In that context, can you answer my question, having quoted it already?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline jdcpe17

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #428 on: July 08, 2011, 12:02:56 PM »
Jesus Christ is Almighty God, He is the bodily expression of the GodHead.  He is God period. He will anyone who is willing to come to Him in faith! 

If any of you doubt this, you may email me at JesusisLord@mailinator.com and I will happilly pray for you -- that the One and only True God Jesus Christ may open your eyes that you may see that He is real, that He is Love, and that He heals all who come to Him in faith!

I never did believe in middle men, I always went straight to the top when I had faith.  And I prayed, and I prayed, and I prayed, and it still resulted in my daughters death.  Are you telling me this is what a loving god does to those who come to him in faith?

That must have been absolutely horrific and to still think about it to this day. Im very very sorry for your loss. No parent wants to outlive their child.

Just think for a moment, though, do you think your daughter would want to be the reason her mother no longer believes in God?
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Offline jdcpe17

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #429 on: July 08, 2011, 12:07:10 PM »
Quote
God, and by God I mean the judeo-christian God, is not limited.  Nothing is too difficult for Him to do.  He is God Almighty and can do anything.  It is just as easy for Him to heal an amputee as it is to raise someone from the dead.  The bible has testimony of several miracles which were of a greater order than healing a lost limb, so why this particular case is noteworthy to atheists I have no idea.

It is the Bible and its stories themselves which are in need of verification, SoG.  This website's question is one way of verifying them.  And they fail the test, when put to it.

Why would a real god choose to fail such a test, when it could succeed?

Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Remember the context of the exchange you quoted, jdcpe17:  The site's question, WWGHA.  It is also the name of this thread.  In that context, can you answer my question, having quoted it already?

Sure, but ive answered this many times on my briefy appearance on this forum. God will answer your prayers if they are to His Glory. If they are some sort of worldly gain for you, then probably not. God could care less about any test you give Him, and the bible even reads about it being wrong to test God at all. That is just how it is. Now, if you choose not to believe in the Bible, thats your choice and nothing i said matters. 

CHEERS!   ;D
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 12:08:47 PM by jdcpe17 »
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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #430 on: July 08, 2011, 12:07:52 PM »
Quote
God, and by God I mean the judeo-christian God, is not limited.  Nothing is too difficult for Him to do.  He is God Almighty and can do anything.  It is just as easy for Him to heal an amputee as it is to raise someone from the dead.  The bible has testimony of several miracles which were of a greater order than healing a lost limb, so why this particular case is noteworthy to atheists I have no idea.

It is the Bible and its stories themselves which are in need of verification, SoG.  This website's question is one way of verifying them.  And they fail the test, when put to it.

Why would a real god choose to fail such a test, when it could succeed?

Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Still waiting for your evidence
The whole point of science is that most of it is uncertain. That's why science is exciting--because we don't know. Science is all about things we don't understand. The public, of course, imagines science is just a set of facts. But it's not.  Freeman Dyson

Offline jdcpe17

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #431 on: July 08, 2011, 12:09:45 PM »
Quote
God, and by God I mean the judeo-christian God, is not limited.  Nothing is too difficult for Him to do.  He is God Almighty and can do anything.  It is just as easy for Him to heal an amputee as it is to raise someone from the dead.  The bible has testimony of several miracles which were of a greater order than healing a lost limb, so why this particular case is noteworthy to atheists I have no idea.

It is the Bible and its stories themselves which are in need of verification, SoG.  This website's question is one way of verifying them.  And they fail the test, when put to it.

Why would a real god choose to fail such a test, when it could succeed?

Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Still waiting for your evidence

What evidence do you want?
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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #432 on: July 08, 2011, 12:16:53 PM »
Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Still waiting for your evidence

What evidence do you want?

Show us the 'many other texts by non-christians' that provide this verification you speak of.
"You play make-believe every day of your life, and yet you have no concept of 'imagination'."
I do not have "faith" in science. I have expectations of science. "Faith" in something is an unfounded assertion, whereas reasonable expectations require a precedent.

Offline jdcpe17

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #433 on: July 08, 2011, 12:20:28 PM »
Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Still waiting for your evidence

What evidence do you want?

Show us the 'many other texts by non-christians' that provide this verification you speak of.

Compliance.

taken from http://carm.org/non-biblical-accounts-new-testament-events-andor-people on 7-8-2011.

========================================================================================
Following is a list of extra-biblical (outside of the Bible) references of biblical events, places, etc.  The list is not exhaustive but is very representative of what is available.

1.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?, a Jewish historian) mentions John the Baptist and Herod - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 5, par. 2
A."Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing [with water] would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away [or the remission] of some sins [only], but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness."

2.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions Jesus - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3.
A.Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles.  He was [the] Christ.  And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.  And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
i.There is debate among scholars as to the authenticity of this quote since it is so favorable to Jesus.  For more information on this, please see Regarding the quotes from the historian Josephus about Jesus

3.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions James, the brother of Jesus - Antiquities, Book 20, ch. 9.
A."Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done."

4.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions Ananias the High Priest who was mentioned in Acts 23:2
A.Now as soon as Albinus was come to the city of Jerusalem, he used all his endeavors and care that the country might be kept in peace, and this by destroying many of the Sicarii.  But as for the high priest, Ananias (25) he increased in glory every day, and this to a great degree, and had obtained the favor and esteem of the citizens in a signal manner; for he was a great hoarder up of money
B.Acts 23:2, "And the high priest Ananias commanded those standing beside him to strike him [Paul] on the mouth."

5.Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) mentions "Christus" who is Jesus - Annals 15.44
A."Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."
i.Ref. from http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.mb.txt

6.Thallus (Circa AD 52, eclipse of the sun) Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time.  His writings are only found as citations by others.  Julius Africanus, who wrote about AD 221, mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun.
A."On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down.  This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."
i.Is this a reference to the eclipse at the crucifixion?  Luke 23:44-45, "And it was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45 the sun being obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two."
ii.The oddity is that Jesus' crucifixion occurred at the Passover which was a full moon.  It is not possible for a solar eclipse to occur at a full moon.  Note that Julius Africanus draws the conclusion that Thallus' mentioning of the eclipse was describing the one at Jesus' crucifixion.  It may not have been.
iii.Julius Africanus, Extant Writings, XVIII in the Ante Nicene Fathers, ed. by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973), vol. VI, p. 130. as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.

7.Pliny the Younger mentioned Christ. Pliny was governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor.  Pliny wrote ten books.  The tenth around AD 112.
A."They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food but food of an ordinary and innocent kind."
i.Pliny, Letters, transl. by William Melmoth, rev. by W.M.L. Hutchinson (Cambridge: Harvard Univ. Press, 1935), vol. II, X:96 as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.

8.The Talmud
A."On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged.  For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy.  Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf."  But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"
i.Gal. 3:13, "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree."
ii.Luke 22:1-2, "Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching.  2And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how they might put Him to death; for they were afraid of the people."
iii.This quotation was taken from the reading in The Babylonian Talmud, transl. by I. Epstein (London: Soncino, 1935), vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a, p. 281 as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.

9.Lucian (circa 120-after 180) mentions Jesus. Greek writer and rhetorician.
A."The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.  All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."
i.Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 1113, in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, transl. by H.W. Fowler and F.G. Fowler, 4 vols. (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949), vol. 4, as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.
ii.Though Lucian opposed Christianity, he acknowledges Jesus, that Jesus was crucified, that Christians worship him, and that this was done by faith.
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Offline Lisa

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #434 on: July 08, 2011, 12:39:34 PM »
Actually the things the bible says happened here on earth in front of other people are written down in many other texts by non-christians. its pretty good verification.

Still waiting for your evidence

What evidence do you want?

Show us the 'many other texts by non-christians' that provide this verification you speak of.

Compliance.

taken from http://carm.org/non-biblical-accounts-new-testament-events-andor-people on 7-8-2011.

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Following is a list of extra-biblical (outside of the Bible) references of biblical events, places, etc.  The list is not exhaustive but is very representative of what is available.

1.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?, a Jewish historian) mentions John the Baptist and Herod - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 5, par. 2
A."Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing [with water] would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away [or the remission] of some sins [only], but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness."

2.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions Jesus - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3.
A.Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles.  He was [the] Christ.  And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.  And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
i.There is debate among scholars as to the authenticity of this quote since it is so favorable to Jesus.  For more information on this, please see Regarding the quotes from the historian Josephus about Jesus

3.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions James, the brother of Jesus - Antiquities, Book 20, ch. 9.
A."Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done."

4.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions Ananias the High Priest who was mentioned in Acts 23:2
A.Now as soon as Albinus was come to the city of Jerusalem, he used all his endeavors and care that the country might be kept in peace, and this by destroying many of the Sicarii.  But as for the high priest, Ananias (25) he increased in glory every day, and this to a great degree, and had obtained the favor and esteem of the citizens in a signal manner; for he was a great hoarder up of money
B.Acts 23:2, "And the high priest Ananias commanded those standing beside him to strike him [Paul] on the mouth."

5.Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) mentions "Christus" who is Jesus - Annals 15.44
A."Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."
i.Ref. from http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.mb.txt

6.Thallus (Circa AD 52, eclipse of the sun) Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time.  His writings are only found as citations by others.  Julius Africanus, who wrote about AD 221, mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun.
A."On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down.  This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."
i.Is this a reference to the eclipse at the crucifixion?  Luke 23:44-45, "And it was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45 the sun being obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two."
ii.The oddity is that Jesus' crucifixion occurred at the Passover which was a full moon.  It is not possible for a solar eclipse to occur at a full moon.  Note that Julius Africanus draws the conclusion that Thallus' mentioning of the eclipse was describing the one at Jesus' crucifixion.  It may not have been.
iii.Julius Africanus, Extant Writings, XVIII in the Ante Nicene Fathers, ed. by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973), vol. VI, p. 130. as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.

7.Pliny the Younger mentioned Christ. Pliny was governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor.  Pliny wrote ten books.  The tenth around AD 112.
A."They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food but food of an ordinary and innocent kind."
i.Pliny, Letters, transl. by William Melmoth, rev. by W.M.L. Hutchinson (Cambridge: Harvard Univ. Press, 1935), vol. II, X:96 as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.

8.The Talmud
A."On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged.  For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy.  Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf."  But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"
i.Gal. 3:13, "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree."
ii.Luke 22:1-2, "Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching.  2And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how they might put Him to death; for they were afraid of the people."
iii.This quotation was taken from the reading in The Babylonian Talmud, transl. by I. Epstein (London: Soncino, 1935), vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a, p. 281 as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.

9.Lucian (circa 120-after 180) mentions Jesus. Greek writer and rhetorician.
A."The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.  All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."
i.Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 1113, in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, transl. by H.W. Fowler and F.G. Fowler, 4 vols. (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949), vol. 4, as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.
ii.Though Lucian opposed Christianity, he acknowledges Jesus, that Jesus was crucified, that Christians worship him, and that this was done by faith.
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Oh, I get it now, God does heal amputees!  ;D
Religion:  Atheist
Hobbies:  Not collecting stamps
Accomplishments:  Not understanding the Crebs Cycle