Author Topic: God does heal amputees  (Read 21222 times)

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Offline LadyLucy

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #174 on: May 13, 2011, 04:25:46 PM »
I think it is akin to overcoming psychosis.

Which is why I find it so moving to be around those atheists that lived that religious life-style for so long, and come out whole, new characters.

I sense that you think I disagree with you? On the contrary; I think that we are simply defining "lying" in subtly different ways.

Nuh-uh. I agreed. :) I simply added my thoughts.


Offline Persephone

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #175 on: May 13, 2011, 04:41:41 PM »
i]as well as I was able to be[/i].

Key words there. Honesty is being free from lies...including self lies and deliberate avoidances of uncomfortable facts.

If you want it to read "Sort of Honest" then my statement isn't true
Yup.

I think we are on subtly different pages, though, Hatter. Here's why: To declare that a person's own judgment of his or her own honesty is moot assumes that there is an objective standard of honesty and truth. I don't go there.

As soon as we atheists assume that ThereisTruthandWeKNOWWhatItIs, we are guilty of fallacious thinking, imo.[1] The best--and indeed it is a very, very good "best"--is science's mathematical methods focusing upon probabilities and statistics. (Of course inferences matter, but they have no basis without lots of data.)

But given today's current understanding of quantum physics, neuroscience's theories of mind, and biology's understanding of the profound complexity of evolution; I don't think that it's possible to form an idea of objective reality that applies at all levels of experience. I'm not even sure it exists.

The multiverse is far too recursive for our level of experience to be objectively, universally defined. We have to talk about levels of experience to even begin.

This is why I'm an agnostic atheist, a #6 on Dawkins' scale, but only due to a technicality. There's always a chance I'm wrong about god(s), but the likelihood is very, very small imo.

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 1. Aren't you the fallacy expert here? Help me out! One True Scotsman?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 04:45:02 PM by Persephone »
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Offline Persephone

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #176 on: May 13, 2011, 04:43:24 PM »
I sense that you think I disagree with you? On the contrary; I think that we are simply defining "lying" in subtly different ways.

Nuh-uh. I agreed. :) I simply added my thoughts.
And they were great thoughts. I'm glad you added them because you gave me some new ways to think about this.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #177 on: May 13, 2011, 06:04:02 PM »
If nothing else at least out of SoG's nonsense came quite a few very good posts to refute his idiocy. And it managed to drag Death Over Life up out of hiding place and awaken him from his comatase state.
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Offline Nick

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #178 on: May 13, 2011, 06:29:17 PM »
So was SOG raptured early?
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Offline Grogs

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #179 on: May 13, 2011, 07:12:52 PM »
My thought is the servant of god and others like him who come in and post are projecting. He says that he was a bad person who lied and stole all the time before he got saved, he was addicted to H, and presumably, finding Jesus was at least part of the reason he was able to recover. It's a hard thing to admit the bad things you've done, try to make amends, and try to do better in the future - if you actually do it, that is. The problem with sog's philosophy is that his excuse for his previous behavior is simply that he didn't have Jesus in his life. So, you see, it wasn't really his fault that he did bad things. Humans are completely helpless. Without Jesus to guide us, we would all devolve into anarcho-communist-cannibal-baby killers. He's accepted Jesus now, and Jesus says that all past wrongs are forgiven unconditionally so he is, therefore, a good person.

He has a problem, though - us. Here we sit, presumably normal and fairly decent people, yet we claim that we don't believe in his Jesus. Even worse, a large number of us actually DID believe in Jesus at some point, but we weren't all that impressed and left the faith. This must cause a massive level of cognitive dissonance. He can address this in a couple of ways. First, he could admit that maybe the whole 'saved' thing is subjective and different people get different levels of satisfaction from it. That's a dangerous road though, because once you start admitting that, the next step involves asking why your own subjective interpretation is better than anyone else's. Even worse, it may even mean that YOU, specifically, were a bad person who did bad things, rather than just foisting it off as a condition common to the entire human race.

The second option, and sadly the one that sog seems to be following, is to put your fingers in your ears and scream loudly that anyone who says that they had a different experience with Jesus is lying. We MUST be lying because the alternative is unthinkable. We REALLY DO believe in Jesus, but we're just pretending we do because we're petulant children. If we're not out kicking children and raping dogs, that's because we really do believe in Jesus and we're afraid of him. If we were christians once, but we became apostates, we MUST NOT have actually believed like he does because a TRUE CHRISTIANTM would never fall. No amount of counter-evidence will ever shake him, because what he believes SIMPLY MUST BE TRUE.

Offline Death over Life

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #180 on: May 13, 2011, 08:52:25 PM »
So, looks like me getting a little more harsh to him chased him away finally. Perhaps if he wouldn't be so close-minded and ignorant, I wouldn't have responded to him as such.

Seeing so much of the extreme "fundamentalism" in my life, I can tell you, Sog is one of them. They are one of those, you believe what I say or your damned kind of people. I despised such when I was a Christian, and I still despise them now as an agnostic atheist. Tried being nice, but if he is going to be ignorant, preachy, and obviously not try to discuss, then fuck him. One thing I do love about being harsh sometimes, it shows you who has really payed attention to the Bible and who hasn't.

Perfect example, it says turn the other cheek, in addition to be virtuous with patience, slow to wrath, and to be compassionate to their enemies, even when they are attacking you. Looks like when I touched a nerve, he turns around and finally reveals His' true character. Hypocrite and liar far before I responded as such, but it was the Hammer (of Thor lol!) that nailed in the final nail in His' coffin.

I have done that to actual friends of mine who are Christians, and they still dared not respond to me like SoG's final posts (well, 1 friend did, but he then apologized for exactly what he said and retracted His' statement). I see my close Christian friends as more true-genuine Christians than this poser, as they did turn the other cheek and they took it with compassion towards me. We don't let religion, or the lack of it, get in our way of friendship or our way of thinking, and we do choose to discuss time-to-time, but unlike SoG, we actually listen and discuss with each other instead of the preaching.

If nothing else at least out of SoG's nonsense came quite a few very good posts to refute his idiocy. And it managed to drag Death Over Life up out of hiding place and awaken him from his comatase state.

That it did lol.

All I can say is after that, damn! No wonder when I went on here as a Christian you guys were harsh and rude. Having to put up with that, is enough to drive any sane person insane. Thankfully, we live in reality and not fantasy!

Offline jetson

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #181 on: May 13, 2011, 09:07:56 PM »
Well, we were talking about his preaching behind the scenes, but decided to let the members take him on for a bit.  Surprisingly, only one report came in regarding SoG, that I can remember.

When Pony reminded him that he was actually breaking forum rules, it seems he decided to leave.

I think that some Christians are not even aware of their preaching style, but SoG was not one of them!  He knew what he was doing, which is why he continued.

Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #182 on: May 13, 2011, 09:21:41 PM »

That it did lol.

All I can say is after that, damn! No wonder when I went on here as a Christian you guys were harsh and rude. Having to put up with that, is enough to drive any sane person insane. Thankfully, we live in reality and not fantasy!

Now you fully understand our pain, brother. Now the healing can truly begin.

On a more serious note, this is why I don't bother to adjust my snark levels with certain theists. It actually takes a lot of effort to hold back the smart ass comments on any subject I'm discussing. But people like String and SoG just aren't worth that effort. I still put effort into making valid points, but no effort into holding back my normal mockery and contempt that I hold for all things in this world.

Now, here's a fun exercise, try imagining having to do that on a near daily basis without feeling the urge to shove nails into your skull. Then you'll really understand why we sometimes take the tone we do.

I think part of the problem, at least for me, is that in order to really counter these arguments I actually have to think about them. This means that I then get to spend the next half hour with a pencil jammed up my nose as I desperately try to fish out the piece of my brain that died the minute I tried to use it to understand people like SoG.
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Offline William

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #183 on: May 13, 2011, 09:24:18 PM »
Well, I'm sorry for breaking the rules.  I won't post anymore.  God bless.

Oh, that makes it all better. This way, you don't have to take any responsibility, or make any ammends.

Servantofgod is already saved ... no, doubly saved, home-and-hosed because he brought us the Word of RLord.
Git mit uns

Offline Turbo SS

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #184 on: May 13, 2011, 09:38:35 PM »
Wow you guys are harsh lol.  It was still a pretty entertaining thread.  I noticed you guys do jump all over alot of christians immediately and call them liars and things like that.  Which I know they are.  But have you guys ever tried to kill one with kindness?  You know they expect atheists to be mean.  What if we were nice to them and just politely refuted everything they say without throwing out any insults.  I feel like they probably feel in a very defensive position and when you feel that way you dont want to listen to anyone you just want to get your point across.

I know its hard to do even when they insult us or constantly break the rules and preach.  But maybe they might stick around longer and maybe just maybe one might open his or her mind for moment and consider they are wrong and hey atheists arent so bad afterall.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #185 on: May 13, 2011, 09:44:40 PM »
^^ One can always guilt them kindly when they repay the kindness with its opposite.
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Offline Jezebel

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #186 on: May 13, 2011, 09:47:15 PM »
Wow you guys are harsh lol.  It was still a pretty entertaining thread.  I noticed you guys do jump all over alot of christians immediately and call them liars and things like that.  Which I know they are.  But have you guys ever tried to kill one with kindness?

I play nice until they don't. I treat everyone more or less the same. And lots of people I've seen on this site maintain nice, civil discussion-type tones, which I think is the best possible response. Think rationally. Examine yourself. Question authority. "Killing them with kindness" sounds like it would involve being misleading--- if giving them the opportunity to be treated as a thinking human being is somehow "unkind" what constitutes "kind"? Should we pretend to half-believe? Or "go along with" something? Should we be apologetic for thinking for ourselves? I mean, it's a nice philosophy-- more flies with honey and all that-- but keep in mind one only catches flies to dispose of them.
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Offline Persephone

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #187 on: May 13, 2011, 09:48:15 PM »
I then get to spend the next half hour with a pencil jammed up my nose as I desperately try to fish out the piece of my brain that died the minute I tried to use it to understand people like SoG.
O.M.G. that is one beautiful, frakked up visual.

I will never be able to face a believer here again without thinking of that, lol.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #188 on: May 13, 2011, 10:02:55 PM »
Wow you guys are harsh lol.  It was still a pretty entertaining thread.  I noticed you guys do jump all over alot of christians immediately and call them liars and things like that.  Which I know they are.  But have you guys ever tried to kill one with kindness?  You know they expect atheists to be mean.  What if we were nice to them and just politely refuted everything they say without throwing out any insults.  I feel like they probably feel in a very defensive position and when you feel that way you dont want to listen to anyone you just want to get your point across.

I know its hard to do even when they insult us or constantly break the rules and preach.  But maybe they might stick around longer and maybe just maybe one might open his or her mind for moment and consider they are wrong and hey atheists arent so bad afterall.

This pretty much comes up every second week. The thing is that your idea is very limited, it assumes that they're actually here to talk like grown ups. Ones like SoG and String aren't here to converse, they're here to tell. They simply want to tell what they want and not actually have to discuss anything meaningfully.

Go back and reread this thread as well as when String chimed in on the other amputee thread. Notice how there's a very steady decline in how they were treated. At first they were treated rather civilly (String moreso than SoG because SoG started off by insulting the entire forum) but then as they become more and more obviously uninterested in really talking you see everyone start to be more and more dismissing of them. People did try to talk to him, he didn't feel like taking a step beyond the borders of Crazy Town though.

On the other hand, take Death Over Life, for example. When he first got here he wasn't treated anything like those two were, Because he actually discussed issues and made it worthwhile to talk to him, rather than making it extremely painful like our most recent two. I can count on one hand the number of other theists I've actually been able to have a similiar level of debate with.

Keep in mind that unfortunately the nature of the question asked by the site has a much greater likelihood of atrtracting the nutcases than it is to attract the intelligent ones.

I then get to spend the next half hour with a pencil jammed up my nose as I desperately try to fish out the piece of my brain that died the minute I tried to use it to understand people like SoG.
O.M.G. that is one beautiful, frakked up visual.

I will never be able to face a believer here again without thinking of that, lol.


You're welcome, I've got a lot of those but I haven't used them in a long time here on the forum. That ones one of my favourites though. I keep thinking that I should go back to my more earlier style on the forum, but either I've changed or the theists have and they don't give me the opporunities they used to. I certainly hope it's not me that's changed. I'd miss the old me.
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #189 on: May 13, 2011, 10:16:31 PM »
I then get to spend the next half hour with a pencil jammed up my nose as I desperately try to fish out the piece of my brain that died the minute I tried to use it to understand people like SoG.
O.M.G. that is one beautiful, frakked up visual.

I will never be able to face a believer here again without thinking of that, lol.

Remind me to never ask Alzael to lend me a pencil. :P
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Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline EV

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #190 on: May 15, 2011, 07:57:55 AM »
I just read this entire post thread, and I must say I really enjoyed it...

But why is it that some Fundy Christians just don't ever seem to get it? They just won't accept any other viewpoint...

It is a sad world that we live in where people say that you need to be open minded and ignore their own closed mindedness.

I'm going to act like a theist and quote a bible verse, but it is here (unlike half the ones from Soggy here) relevant.
Quote
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
-Matthew 7:3-5

This quote proves once and for all that there is still some relevance in the outdated teachings of the Bible, if only to some nutjob funda'mental' who took on twenty atheists and died a death more humiliating than Jesus.

SoG, if you read this and try to open your mind to your own teachings, maybe you might have got somewhere on convincing the WWGHA community that you actually had something meaningful to give.

It is really sad how many Christians just don't even follow their own teachings anymore...

Please people, anyone on this truly God-Forsaken planet daring to post on here, think before you speak, especially on places like this forum, or you will die a painful, painful death at the hands of far superior minds...

Oh, and Alzael may end up stabbing his brain out through his nasal cavity...  ;D
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Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #191 on: May 15, 2011, 11:53:39 AM »
All I can say is after that, damn! No wonder when I went on here as a Christian you guys were harsh and rude. Having to put up with that, is enough to drive any sane person insane. Thankfully, we live in reality and not fantasy!

DoL,

Do you still keep in contact with that "Muscles and Beard" dude?
Enough with your bullshit.
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Offline Death over Life

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #192 on: May 15, 2011, 02:14:58 PM »
But why is it that some Fundy Christians just don't ever seem to get it? They just won't accept any other viewpoint...

1 word, Indoctrination. They are so embedded into their beliefs, it is like a terminator robot. They didn’t actually believe it, it was instilled into their data bank/memory to the point where the robot has no free will anymore, although it thinks it has free will.

This I feel is why for really damaging Christianity, instead of going after every Christian we come into contact with, I’m starting to think we should all go to various churches challenging the Pastors or Priests.

(And if an atheist can SOMEHOW get into the Vatican City, the Devil, I mean Pope himself!)

As the saying goes: If you destroy the head, the limbs will naturally die off.

Being a Christian for over a decade, and going to church for 7 out of those 10 years, it is very easy to see that the Christians get their beliefs from their Pastor, not the Bible. This is how and why people like Sog are like Sog and how they post as such.

All I can say is after that, damn! No wonder when I went on here as a Christian you guys were harsh and rude. Having to put up with that, is enough to drive any sane person insane. Thankfully, we live in reality and not fantasy!

DoL,

Do you still keep in contact with that "Muscles and Beard" dude?

Hguols, yes and no.

He and I are members of other forums as well, so I still see Him. (one of them shut down however)

In terms of actually conversing, He knows I’m now an atheist and we still get along just fine as if I still was a Christian. When He did say He don’t care about whether we believe or not, which I do believe He said that on here as well, He meant it.

I do think still He was one of those who the guys here shouldn’t have been so harsh to, but it’s understandable because every time a Christian comes on here, you have to put up with SoG like debates all the freaking time.

In all honesty, I still don’t see why or understand Him debating that whole “atheism is a religion” debate. To me, that is semantics to the umpteenth degree. Whether it is or isn’t, it makes no difference as to what it does, preaches, and practices.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #193 on: May 15, 2011, 05:07:55 PM »
Why are all the H capitalized in the above post?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Death over Life

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #194 on: May 15, 2011, 05:10:03 PM »
Why are all the H capitalized in the above post?

Habit (no pun intended btw)

Offline velkyn

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #195 on: May 16, 2011, 08:37:07 AM »
Wow you guys are harsh lol.  It was still a pretty entertaining thread.  I noticed you guys do jump all over alot of christians immediately and call them liars and things like that.  Which I know they are.  But have you guys ever tried to kill one with kindness?  You know they expect atheists to be mean.  What if we were nice to them and just politely refuted everything they say without throwing out any insults.  I feel like they probably feel in a very defensive position and when you feel that way you dont want to listen to anyone you just want to get your point across.
  I've tried that, being the nice kitty.  Unfortunately, there are few ways to break it to a person that they are indeed a liar that they won't get offended by.  Theists think we are "mean" no matter how we approach things. We can be as reasonable and nice as can be and we still get the same responses.  I can be all nice, show the theist on how much they are wrong and the only thing I get in return are more lies and it becomes them being chased around with no intent on ever abandoning their beliefs, coming up with more and more convoluted excuses to save their self-worth.  They probably do feel very defensive, in being shown how utterly wrong they are, but they come here all sure that they are the only right people in the universe.  It does hurt to get slapped down by reality.

Quote
I know its hard to do even when they insult us or constantly break the rules and preach.  But maybe they might stick around longer and maybe just maybe one might open his or her mind for moment and consider they are wrong and hey atheists arent so bad afterall.


Unfortunately, for a true believer, atheists are pure evil.  We will never be "not so bad".  They may stick around longer if no one directly confronts them (and I don't consider that to be "mean") but the end result is the same. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #196 on: May 16, 2011, 08:41:57 AM »
Welcome back, Velks. See all the fun you've missed? I myself have managed to accumulate upwards of fifteen death threats in the last week. Bet you're jealous right?
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Offline Persephone

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #197 on: May 16, 2011, 08:50:40 AM »
Theists think we are "mean" no matter how we approach things. We can be as reasonable and nice as can be and we still get the same responses.
So true, velkyn. The very existence of the atheist is insulting to them. We can't win. It's really more a matter of softening the blow, but it's still a blow.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #198 on: May 16, 2011, 09:06:28 AM »
Welcome back, Velks. See all the fun you've missed? I myself have managed to accumulate upwards of fifteen death threats in the last week. Bet you're jealous right?
you get all of the fun <pout>.   ;D   This latest crop of theists who are sure that they and only they have the "truth" are sadly typical and indeed lovely examples of "Christian love".  Always is amusing when they demonstrate that they don't actually believe in their nonsense by their actions.  I wonder if they are getting more and more desperate since one of their own is saying that JC will be back in a few days....

I've finally got internet access at work, albeit though a jury-rigged system of wireless hotspots etc.  So at least I'm not completely dead of boredom.  Got the office moved, but thanks to my boss and his total ability to screw up anything, we couldnt' tell the internet provider, phone, etc, where we were moving to until about two weeks ago.  So now, we get to wait until they get around to moving our access. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Alzael

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #199 on: May 16, 2011, 09:14:42 AM »
Welcome back, Velks. See all the fun you've missed? I myself have managed to accumulate upwards of fifteen death threats in the last week. Bet you're jealous right?
you get all of the fun <pout>.   ;D   This latest crop of theists who are sure that they and only they have the "truth" are sadly typical and indeed lovely examples of "Christian love".  Always is amusing when they demonstrate that they don't actually believe in their nonsense by their actions.  I wonder if they are getting more and more desperate since one of their own is saying that JC will be back in a few days....


It was kind of a pity about lander though. He seemed at least smart enough. Unfortunately he was one of those types who shuts down if you give them anything they think is an insult. I actually even put in the effort to explain to him what a wuss-out policy that was, but apparently it was to no avail.

It's an interesting dilemma, isn't it? On the one hand you have the raving lunatics that you can't talk to, and can only mock. Then on the other hand you have the ones that aren't lunatics and could maybe have a conversation with but they're too fragile to have any of their beliefs challenged, no matter how nice we are.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline velkyn

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #200 on: May 16, 2011, 09:40:42 AM »
I'd have to say that I honestly dont' know whether they are too "fragile" or they are just desperate for any excuse to extricate themselves from the position they've put themselves in. Then, anything becomes too much for them to supposed "bear". 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline String1248

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #201 on: May 16, 2011, 01:35:36 PM »
I told you you can know God directly.  He will reveal Himself to you if you ask Him to.  By that, I mean sincerely and not swearing at Him and cursing His name and demanding He do tricks for you.  But just genuinely wanting to know if He is actually real or not.  You seem to have made up your mind, but I am telling you that He will show Himself to you if you ask.
Amen!

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #202 on: May 16, 2011, 01:37:35 PM »
I told you you can know God directly.  He will reveal Himself to you if you ask Him to.  By that, I mean sincerely and not swearing at Him and cursing His name and demanding He do tricks for you.  But just genuinely wanting to know if He is actually real or not.  You seem to have made up your mind, but I am telling you that He will show Himself to you if you ask.
Amen!

OK, so let me be sure I'm clear about this.  If I ask Yahweh, with all my sincerity, to reveal himself to me, he will, and that being the case, I will obviously cease to be an atheist.  Is that correct?
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn