Author Topic: God does heal amputees  (Read 27293 times)

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Online Astreja

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #145 on: May 12, 2011, 11:44:37 PM »
Every atheist here knows they are seperated from Gods love.
False.  It's absurd to feel a sense of separation from something that we think is imaginary.  Do you feel a sense of separation from the Invisible Pink Unicorn (mHhhnbs)?

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You know God is real, and so does everyone else here.
False.  I, for one, 'know' no such thing.  It's insufferably rude to pretend to read other peoples' minds.

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You also know that you're guilty.
Poppycock.

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Well, there is forgiveness for you, for all the people here.
If you actually took the time to read My Ex-timony you will have learned that, if your god and its hell actually exist (but I very much doubt it) I have taken a vow to reject that forgiveness.

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You will be in my prayers.
(sighs heavily) Fine.  In exchange, I shall pray to Me on your behalf.

*Ahem*

"O Astreja, Goddess of the Vernal Equinox (northern hemisphere only), chocolate, punctuation and Random Equipment malfunctions, loose cannon of the Æsir and the best d@mn meadmaker in Winnipeg!  Hear Thou My petition.

"May the individual known as Servantofgod see questions where once there were answers; see mythology where once there was historical truth; and grasp for one terrifying instant the whole of eternity as Thou hast seen when picking threads out of a gold chenile bedspread in Thy twelfth year.

"And may this unwanted knowledge rock Servantofgod to the very foundations of his world, that he might come to his senses and join the rest of us in the real world."

(passes papers to Dad and to dear, sweet uncle Loki for notarization)  Done deal.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 11:46:19 PM by Astreja »
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Offline hickdive

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #146 on: May 13, 2011, 01:31:00 AM »
I won't post anymore.  God bless.

In other words, you can't answer my question or anyone else's and now you're going off in a hissy fit because you've been rumbled.

Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline Bagheera

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #147 on: May 13, 2011, 02:22:48 AM »
People like servantofgod frighten me. This kind of relentless wilful blindness just screams mental illness.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #148 on: May 13, 2011, 03:24:15 AM »
My words are true.  If you come to Christ with a sincere heart, He will open the door to you.  You don't know how He is working in your life.  You may not perceive a difference because of your vast and endless unbelief.  Yet, if you prayed with a sincere heart, the door is open and you will perceive that when you open your eyes to the truth.  How long that will take is entirely between you and Him.

Soggy, that is completely different from what you said before, which I quote again for truth below.  Note especially the part which is bold and in huge text....

I have not held back the truth, which is this:

You can know Christ, personally, today, by calling upon His in prayer and asking Him to reveal Himself to you.

You said I would know Christ, personally, today.  NOT that I might perceive nothing because I miss a couple of signs of "open doors".

The question is this: why did your claim change so dramatically when it was proved false?  Grow some balls and admit that you changed your story as soon as we showed you your claims were false, instead of this soggy and wishy-washy goalpost shifting.  Because frankly, all you are doing is reinforcing the belief that Christians are liars....and that there IS no god.

If God revealed Himself to you, would you witness to these people?  Would you put down your pride as an intellectual and preach His gospel to the lost sheep? 

If I pray, and I get a response, then I will let everyone know.  I am not a fearful coward who will speak in public only those things he has held dear.  If I were visited by Christ, I would shout if from the rooftops.

You would shout it from the rooftops?  Those are beautiful words to hear.  I hope you remember them. 

Oh, I will - and I hope you will remember them too.  Because, Servant of God, here's the thing: it cuts both ways.  When someone tries to sell me something that may be the elixir of life, or may be just snake oil, I will be honest in my testimony.  If I'm sold a genuine, jim-dandy miracle cure that does what it says on the tin, then I will shout it from the rooftops, I will give all credit when credit is due.

But here's the thing: if someone sells me snake oil, then that too will be shouted from the rooftops.  If I am given a firm and specific promise.....and the promise is broken....and when I go back to the seller I get fobbed off and told "I never said that!" when clearly (see my two posts above) they DID say that......well, then I likewise will shout from the rooftops that this person lies, this person breaks their promises, this person offers something quite specific that turns out to be hogwash.  Oh yes, I will make THAT known as well.

Servant of God, you made a string of very specific, very clear promises, and gave instructions that I and others followed to the letterAnd nothing happened.  So right now, servant of god, I am shouting from the rooftops that what you are selling is moonshine.  Fairy dust. 

So when you said "You can know Christ, personally, today", the only question is this:

Did YOU lie when you said that to us, or did your god lie when he said it to you?

Which shall I shout from the rooftops?  That you lie, or your god lies?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #149 on: May 13, 2011, 03:42:36 AM »
I know you're hurt, and I am sorry.  Every atheist here knows they are seperated from Gods love.  That's why they're so angry.  They desire that more than anything and they've all admitted it, even fessing up to praying to Him. 

I fully expected this whine - the usual Christian attempt at a "win-win" rigged game.  They come here and say "try to pray".  If we do not, they can claim we are blinkered and closed-minded.  If we do pray, they play the "see, you KNOW god is real!" card.  Its a familiar game from Christians, who know full well that if an atheist chooses to play their game, they can claim victory - glossing over, of course, the fact that every atheist who takes them up and DOES pray experiences absolutely nothing as a result.

You know God is real, and so does everyone else here. 

Nope.  But I am always - ALWAYS - prepared to give it a go, when a specific claim is made and specific instructions are offered.  I've done it before, with Christians and Muslims alike.  If there IS a god - whatever god that may be - then I want to know it.  Of course I do!  If there is a god, it is the most important piece of information there could be in how I live my life!  So I follow the instructions whenever they get specific.  But guess what happens every time I do?  Yup, nothing happens....and the goalpost shifting starts, followed normally (as you have quite predictably done here) by the disengaging and claims of how wrong we are.....how wrong we are indeed, not to ignore the many times that "answer came there none".

His love is bigger than your hate.  Much bigger.  .....there is forgiveness for you, for all the people here.  .....He never once gave up on you.  He is always trying to reach you...

Heh.  Funny then how when I honestly and sincerely open the channles, there is such a resounding silence that comes back.  I find it quite amazing that you can make all the conflicting claims you do.  That a god that loves us and is always trying to reach us and who we can know, personally, TODAY (your words, remember)......nevertheless will not answer until some unspecified time in the future.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline grant

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #150 on: May 13, 2011, 05:54:42 AM »
I know you're hurt, and I am sorry.  Every atheist here knows they are seperated from Gods love.  That's why they're so angry.  They desire that more than anything and they've all admitted it, even fessing up to praying to Him.  You've admitted it as well..and you know what you're doing isn't right.  You're doing this because you are angry at your seperation and this is your rebellion.

You know God is real, and so does everyone else here.  You also know that you're guilty.  Well I'll tell you what..throwing a fit isn't going to change anything.  You can stomp and cry and rage against Jesus from now until your death...it won't change a thing.  You'll still be guilty and rightly so.

You worship death now because you want to be released.  You hope with all your heart that death is the end so that you won't be judged.  So does everyone else here.  They all know they're guilty, just like you do.  Satan has caused you to do such vile and wretched things against Jesus, the one who loves you completely, that you probably feel now that you can never be forgiven.

Well, His love is bigger than your hate.  Much bigger.  When you finally realize that, you will let go of your anger, and stop your rebellion.  You've given yourself over to be a slave of the evil one.  You are lovers of death, because that is all he offers.  Somewhere, in your heart, you know how far you've fallen.

Well, there is forgiveness for you, for all the people here.  The devil has convinced you you're not worth saving, that God has betrayed you..yet, He never once gave up on you.  He is always trying to reach you, you in your shame just won't pick up the line.  You come to this place to reinforce it, but you know inside its a pack of lies.

Deny what you will, God knows your heart.  You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to him.  You will be in my prayers.  God bless.


Well, that's about the BEST post EVER.

I'll rewrite it:

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YOU'RE ALL GOD HATING LIARS AND DEATH SATAN WORSHIPERS! GOD EXISTS I TELL YOU! HONEST! REPENT OR BURN IN HELL!

I hope you spend lots of time praying for us... lots. Might get you off the internet spewing forth such absolute rubbish, because that's all it is friend, verbal diarrhea. Have you ever stopped to think for a minute? That's right, just one minute? It's all it takes to expose you're beliefs as delusional, if you have the brain power and clarity of thought to realistically look at it. Take a step back and consider what you're saying. It's as equally stupid for every god ever, if not more so.

And when I ask for one minute, I ask for the whole 60 seconds, don't give up. Give it a go.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 05:57:16 AM by grant »
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #151 on: May 13, 2011, 07:44:37 AM »
Please don't pray for me. I don't want your prayers.

I'm pretty sure he just said it to be condescending.

It is pretty much the end play for most theists who have been beaten. I learned a saying from usenet about 15 years ago: "Condecending Peity is the last refuge of the beaten"
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #152 on: May 13, 2011, 07:54:17 AM »
Please don't pray for me. I don't want your prayers.

I'm pretty sure he just said it to be condescending.

It is pretty much the end play for most theists who have been beaten. I learned a saying from usenet about 15 years ago: "Condecending Peity is the last refuge of the beaten"

It tends to be employed when they are feeling deeply shaken in their beliefs, as a way of reinforcing their status as a special snowflake.  After several posts saying "things will happen in god's own time", he is now saying that his prayers will cause god to alter his plans and make us all Christians, JUST because Soggy has asked him to.

That's how special a snowflake Soggy is!  No matter what god's plan is, he will change it just because Soggy asks!  One has to wonder - just who is who's Servant here?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline plethora

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #153 on: May 13, 2011, 07:55:50 AM »
That's how special a snowflake Soggy is!  No matter what god's plan is, he will change it just because Soggy asks!  One has to wonder - just who is who's Servant here?

He's a servant to himself... via SPAG.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #154 on: May 13, 2011, 08:00:08 AM »
My words are true.  If you come to Christ with a sincere heart, He will open the door to you.  You don't know how He is working in your life.  You may not perceive a difference because of your vast and endless unbelief.  Yet, if you prayed with a sincere heart, the door is open and you will perceive that when you open your eyes to the truth.  How long that will take is entirely between you and Him.

Whenever I read something like this, in my mind, I always end up hearing that "mwah mwah, mwah mwah mwah mwah, mwah" sound that they use in the Charlie Brown specials when grownups are talking.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Hatter23

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #155 on: May 13, 2011, 08:09:40 AM »
My words are true.  If you come to Christ with a sincere heart, He will open the door to you.  You don't know how He is working in your life.  You may not perceive a difference because of your vast and endless unbelief.  Yet, if you prayed with a sincere heart, the door is open and you will perceive that when you open your eyes to the truth.  How long that will take is entirely between you and Him.

Whenever I read something like this, in my mind, I always end up hearing that "mwah mwah, mwah mwah mwah mwah, mwah" sound that they use in the Charlie Brown specials when grownups are talking.

Funny, sometimes that, but sometimes I think of the angry spooky nun from The Blues Brothers.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #156 on: May 13, 2011, 08:12:29 AM »
Every atheist here knows they are seperated from Gods love.

Yes, well, Zeus is a fickle man.

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That's why they're so angry.

No, that's not why we're angry.  This is why we're angry.

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They desire that more than anything and they've all admitted it, even fessing up to praying to Him.

Holy mackerel... hypocrite much?  You challenge us to "ask Yahweh to show himself to us", we accept your challenge -- proving you wrong in the process, by the way -- and then you sneer at us for it?  --The Terminator scans over his list of responses and decides on the correct one: "Fuck you, asshole."

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You know God is real, and so does everyone else here.  You also know that you're guilty.

Let me give you a tip that will probably get you pretty far in life: people don't like to be told what they think, what they feel, or what they know, especially when the person making the declaration is wrong.

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Well I'll tell you what..throwing a fit isn't going to change anything.

Then why are you throwing one?

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You worship death now because you want to be released.  You hope with all your heart that death is the end so that you won't be judged.  So does everyone else here.  They all know they're guilty, just like you do.

See above re: telling people what they think and feel.

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Satan has caused you to do such vile and wretched things against Jesus, the one who loves you completely, that you probably feel now that you can never be forgiven.

If Satan is forcing me to be the way I am, then obviously, I have no need to be forgiven for whatever I've done or am doing, because it's not my fault.

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Well, His love is bigger than your hate.  Much bigger.

Are we talking about Yahweh or Barney?

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When you finally realize that, you will let go of your anger, and stop your rebellion.  You've given yourself over to be a slave of the evil one.  You are lovers of death, because that is all he offers.  Somewhere, in your heart, you know how far you've fallen.

Third time: you really shouldn't tell people what they think or feel -- or, in this case, how they're going to feel in the future.  It's really obnoxious.

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Well, there is forgiveness for you, for all the people here.  The devil has convinced you you're not worth saving, that God has betrayed you..yet, He never once gave up on you.  He is always trying to reach you, you in your shame just won't pick up the line.  You come to this place to reinforce it, but you know inside its a pack of lies.

Fourth time.

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Deny what you will, God knows your heart.  You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to him.

I can't lie to Santa Claus, either.  So what?

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You will be in my prayers.  God bless.

You know, when people say that they'll pray for me and it's clear that they're saying it out of genuine concern for me, it doesn't bother me... actually, I find myself appreciating the gesture, useless though I know it is.  Here, though, you're just being a condescending snob.  Knock it off.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #157 on: May 13, 2011, 08:16:50 AM »
I know you're hurt, and I am sorry.  Every atheist here knows they are seperated from Gods love.  That's why they're so angry.  They desire that more than anything and they've all admitted it, even fessing up to praying to Him. 

I fully expected this whine - the usual Christian attempt at a "win-win" rigged game.  They come here and say "try to pray".  If we do not, they can claim we are blinkered and closed-minded.  If we do pray, they play the "see, you KNOW god is real!" card.  Its a familiar game from Christians, who know full well that if an atheist chooses to play their game, they can claim victory - glossing over, of course, the fact that every atheist who takes them up and DOES pray experiences absolutely nothing as a result.

It was a new one on me; hadn't seen it before.  Won't happen again, though.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Grimm

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #158 on: May 13, 2011, 08:19:12 AM »
I know you're hurt, and I am sorry.  Every atheist here knows they are seperated from Gods love.  That's why they're so angry.

I'm not hurt.  I have no idea why you're apologizing.  And.. uh.  No.  I'm not separated from anything meaningful, and I"m not angry in the slightest. 

I don't mean to offend you, but I'm just not angry.  I don't 'know' these things you say I know.  It is a bit prideful of you to make the assumption that you know 'em, however.  What kind of person does it take to assign motivations to others without bothering to even try to understand them or their point of view?

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They desire that more than anything and they've all admitted it, even fessing up to praying to Him.  You've admitted it as well..and you know what you're doing isn't right.  You're doing this because you are angry at your seperation and this is your rebellion.

Actually, no.  I started as a believer, just like you.  I was raised in the Church, and came to realize that the doctrines of God rang hollowly.  The more hollow they felt, the more I searched for truth, and the more I searched for truth, the less substance they had.  Eventually, I discovered that I'd looked so hard for the supernatural that I'd seen 'behind the curtain', so to speak, and no longer believed in the faith of my parents, or their parents.

I searched for meaning in other systems, then, desperate to cling to some idea of God.  Bhuddism, Taoism, Mormonism, Islam, Shinto - I tried anything I could read about, and then some.  In the end, however, I had to lay it all aside:  if we are seekers of truth, and the truth invariably points to a conclusion despite our wishes, do we go with our wishes or the conclusion? 

I chose to follow truth, wherever it led.  It led me to nonbelief, and I've never been happier... or more responsible for my own existence and meaning. 

Again I say, I'm not angry.  The motives you assign me are false, but that's alright.  You need to assign those motives to explain why prayer isn't working for people like me, or you'll lose your own faith.   You don't want truth - you want the comfort of conclusions that stereotype and belittle so that you can feel superior and secure in your own belief.  So it goes.


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You know God is real, and so does everyone else here.  You also know that you're guilty.  Well I'll tell you what..throwing a fit isn't going to change anything.  You can stomp and cry and rage against Jesus from now until your death...it won't change a thing.  You'll still be guilty and rightly so.

I know God isn't real, actually - and so do most here.  I"m not at all guilty, and I'm not throwing tantrums or raging against Jesus anymore than you rage against Zeus.  I have committed no crime, done no harm, and I live the best life I can - no one can ask more of me than that.

Your stereotyping remains just stereotyping.

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You worship death now because you want to be released.  You hope with all your heart that death is the end so that you won't be judged.  So does everyone else here.  They all know they're guilty, just like you do.  Satan has caused you to do such vile and wretched things against Jesus, the one who loves you completely, that you probably feel now that you can never be forgiven.

What vile thing have I done?  In what possible way do I worship death?  How am I guilty?  You put these words together, but I have no conception of what you're really trying to say, even as you judge and condemn me.   I simply don't believe as you do, and I once did - I am apostate, I suppose, and that's dangerous for your faith.

But why do you judge me?  Your faith explicitly warns you against it.  Glass houses, planks, praying in private - remember all of those verses?  I do, from my time as one of the faithful.  Given that, and given the amount of venom you offer here, I have to ask:  why do you hate me?  What have I done to you beyond simply disagree on an internet forum?

How is it that you, who profess to be faithful, judge and condemn though your own faith condemns it? 

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Well, His love is bigger than your hate.  Much bigger.  When you finally realize that, you will let go of your anger, and stop your rebellion.  You've given yourself over to be a slave of the evil one.  You are lovers of death, because that is all he offers.  Somewhere, in your heart, you know how far you've fallen.

I have no idea what you're saying here.  I don't believe in your god - that doesn't mean I run around eating babies or killing people.  Rather, I do my best to make the world around me a better place, in whatever way I can.  My reach is somewhat limited, I admit, but that doesn't mean that my life, when others remember it, can't be judged well.

I wonder, sometimes, that if some being like Satan actually existed, whether he would find more joy in your abject condemnation or my quiet disbelief and work in the now.  On some comparitive scale, what is more evil:  expressing your certainty that people are evil and calling them fearful, lost, and hate-filled while declaring their destiny in everlasting torture, or not believing in God while you work to clear your neighbor's roads after tornados blast through a neighborhood?

Hmm.

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Well, there is forgiveness for you, for all the people here.  The devil has convinced you you're not worth saving, that God has betrayed you..yet, He never once gave up on you.  He is always trying to reach you, you in your shame just won't pick up the line.  You come to this place to reinforce it, but you know inside its a pack of lies.

I'm not entirely certain I'm the one that needs forgiving.  I do, however, forgive you for your vitriol and cruelty - you barely understand your own faith, while trying to prosleytize to others.  I understand where you are, and I understand that you simply cannot see anything outside of your paradigm as good.  I'm sorry for you for that, and I hope one day you'll realize that the message you're professing here isn't one of love and hope.  You're preaching a gospel of extortion, cruelty, and threat.

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Deny what you will, God knows your heart.  You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to him.  You will be in my prayers.  God bless.

Your pride is remarkable, and very sad.  You have described me without knowing me, so secure in your own faith that you cannot imagine someone else being something other than you've been taught we are.  Your vision of the world is one in which absolutes, stereotypes, and poorly-understood, feel-good faith color everything you do, while you really do nothing.

I wonder which of us is really more deluded.  Even if I am wrong, then I will be judged for my disbelief - my works should stand under scrutiny.  On the other hand, you will be judged by your pride, your hypocracy, and your callousness - which of us will have the hotter corner, do you think?
"But to us, there is but one god, plus or minus one."  - 1 Corinthians 8:6+/-2

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Offline William

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #159 on: May 13, 2011, 08:37:00 AM »
They all know they're guilty, just like you do.

You have no evidence that I'm guilty of anything, nor of my thoughts.
This is a reflection of your own obsequious cowering before an imagenary God made palatable to you only by your perceived superiority over me.

You have no self-esteem.  You have no insight. 
You are mistaken.  Yet you are arrogant to the point of being disgusting.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 10:03:29 AM by William »
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Offline rev45

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #160 on: May 13, 2011, 09:40:03 AM »
These exchanges with SOG I think are a great example of Liars for Christ.  Setting a great example for good little Christians everywhere.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #161 on: May 13, 2011, 10:10:23 AM »
Indeed.  I do wonder about people who have evidently decided that lying for God is a great thing.  Have they not read Romans 3?  Or even the "ten" commandments, where it says very distinctly one should not bear "false witness" about other people?  If these Christians insist on lying about other's actions and intents, that would be a big no-no according to the god they supposedly worship.

Their actions on this forum make me think that they don't actually believe, for if they did, is telling such lies worth their supposed souls?  Do they think their supposed omnipotent, omniscient god will forgive them again and again for doing something God said not to do?
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Offline rev45

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #162 on: May 13, 2011, 10:42:05 AM »
I'm thinking maybe Christians rank the 10 commandments in terms of importance and priority.  Such as the first commandment is "No other gods before me."  Well that must a big no no as its the first commandment and anyone who has another god or no god should be preached to harshly.  But as you work your way down the list of commandments, we can easily point to Christians who break those commandments regularly.  6-10 are: do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, and do not covet.  Those commandments are broken by almost every televangelists I've ever seen.  Murder not so much but I've yet to hear one actively speak out against the wars the US is engaged in or condemn the OT wars where many were killed.  But as these commandments are at the bottom of the list, maybe they aren't as important as the commandments at the top.  Maybe that's why we get so many liars around here.  Or maybe not.  ;D
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Offline Persephone

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #163 on: May 13, 2011, 11:37:19 AM »
Do they think their supposed omnipotent, omniscient god will forgive them again and again for doing something God said not to do?

Their evolved survival skills show up clearly when their morality continuum becomes situational, and they reveal their moral compass to be no different from ours. Often it's even worse because they have the added "bonus" of giving an eternal stamp of approval to their choices, something atheists don't do.

You can justify more cruelty when you're convinced you have God's mandate.
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Offline Jezebel

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #164 on: May 13, 2011, 11:42:40 AM »
This guy is a perfect example of why I think talking to theists is a waste of time.
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Offline LadyLucy

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #165 on: May 13, 2011, 12:51:49 PM »
I have a feeling no theist will ever answer my question:

Quote from: LadyAmorosaLuckyDulce link=topic=18827.msg417083#msg417083
SoG, why do you want us to believe in your deity and not another one? I've asked this question to many other theists. They either:

A. Did not answer me on purpose [I.E. No clue as to how to answer]
B. Ignored me, because they thought I was trolling
C. They simply never answered me out of anger

How about it? If you think you are so honest, please answer me. I have not received any answer to this day.

No theist is honest, I swear.


Offline Hatter23

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #166 on: May 13, 2011, 12:57:18 PM »
I have a feeling no theist will ever answer my question:

Quote from: LadyAmorosaLuckyDulce link=topic=18827.msg417083#msg417083
SoG, why do you want us to believe in your deity and not another one? I've asked this question to many other theists. They either:

A. Did not answer me on purpose [I.E. No clue as to how to answer]
B. Ignored me, because they thought I was trolling
C. They simply never answered me out of anger

How about it? If you think you are so honest, please answer me. I have not received any answer to this day.

No theist is honest, I swear.

They exist:

A Theist can be:

(A) Above IQ 60
(B) Honest
(C) Adult

Pick any two.
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Offline Persephone

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #167 on: May 13, 2011, 01:39:56 PM »
No theist is honest, I swear.
In their defense I think it's often more a matter of self-delusion, not deliberate dishonesty. The ones who break free are the self-delusional ones whose desire to know the truth supersedes their fear of abandoning their delusion.

(I was a voiceful theist for a while. My IQ is way above 60, I was an adult at the time, and I was being honest...as well as I was able to be. In fact, it was the combination of these things, including a stringent honesty, that ultimately led me to atheism. My desire for truth surpassed my fear of abandoning my delusion.)
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Offline Nick

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #168 on: May 13, 2011, 01:55:59 PM »
No theist is honest, I swear.
In their defense I think it's often more a matter of self-delusion, not deliberate dishonesty. The ones who break free are the self-delusional ones whose desire to know the truth supersedes their fear of abandoning their delusion.

(I was a voiceful theist for a while. My IQ is way above 60, I was an adult at the time, and I was being honest...as well as I was able to be. In fact, it was the combination of these things, including a stringent honesty, that ultimately led me to atheism. My desire for truth surpassed my fear of abandoning my delusion.)
What a great last sentence.  +1
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Offline LadyLucy

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #169 on: May 13, 2011, 03:33:50 PM »
My desire for truth surpassed my fear of abandoning my delusion.

That goes for all theists that end up de-converting. I went through it, you went through it, hell, I'm absolutely sure every atheist that belonged to a religion went through it.

The most important step rather than the pursuit for truth [since that step is actually one of the last] is first acknowledging you are delusional. Otherwise, no dice. It's a difficult inner fight. Afterall, it is quite the mind-job, being told that a particular god or something exists in this planet and watches over all of us.

That's the only way one can be honest with themselves: Acknowledging the problem. These theists that go into WWGHA? For vast majority of the part, they are not being honest with themselves. Not even out of fear [since they don't acknowledge there is a problem to begin with], but rather because they already have lived their lives this way for so long that it is an absolute truth.

The problem is not knowing there is a problem to begin with, Persephone. And that's why I respect people that actually admit that what they believe is more so an emotional truth to make them feel more at peace. People like servantofgod and String will most likely never say it is an emotional truth, but that it's something that everyone in the world should be aware of and convert into it in order to be saved.

"There is no honest theist, I swear." <--- Whether it is an emotional truth or a "world-wide" and absolute truth, no theist is being honest. Not even deists that are trying to de-convert. I know because I was there, and frankly, I was not an honest person. I lied to myself, both shamelessly and with lots of shame; lots of shame because every day that passed by, I acknowledge there was a problem more and more. And that's what theists do: Wishful thinking.

The only thing I can do is sip my water, sit back, and read whatever they have to say, only to say to them: "Could you please support whatever is coming out of your mouth?"

Whatever. The least I can do is try to make them think slightly more about what they say the next time.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 03:35:34 PM by LadyAmorosaLuckyDulce »


Offline Persephone

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #170 on: May 13, 2011, 03:56:57 PM »
My desire for truth surpassed my fear of abandoning my delusion.

That goes for all theists that end up de-converting. I went through it, you went through it, hell, I'm absolutely sure every atheist that belonged to a religion went through it.
I agree completely - it's a necessary step.

Quote
The most important step rather than the pursuit for truth [since that step is actually one of the last] is first acknowledging you are delusional. Otherwise, no dice. It's a difficult inner fight. Afterall, it is quite the mind-job, being told that a particular god or something exists in this planet and watches over all of us.
This is very well-put, LadyA. It *is* a difficult inner fight against the ultimate mind-job.

I think it is akin to overcoming psychosis.

Quote
These theists that go into WWGHA? For vast majority of the part, they are not being honest with themselves. Not even out of fear [since they don't acknowledge there is a problem to begin with], but rather because they already have lived their lives this way for so long that it is an absolute truth.
I lived my life that way long enough that it was an absolute truth, for a while at any rate. I was confident in my psychosis.

Quote
The problem is not knowing there is a problem to begin with, Persephone.
Yes!

Quote
And that's why I respect people that actually admit that what they believe is more so an emotional truth to make them feel more at peace.
I know believers like this. I have a certain amount of respect for their self-awareness, but the idealist in me screams, "At what cost is this peace?!"

Quote
"There is no honest theist, I swear." <--- Whether it is an emotional truth or a "world-wide" and absolute truth, no theist is being honest. Not even deists that are trying to de-convert. I know because I was there, and frankly, I was not an honest person. I lied to myself, both shamelessly and with lots of shame; lots of shame because every day that passed by, I acknowledge there was a problem more and more. And that's what theists do: Wishful thinking.
I sense that you think I disagree with you? On the contrary; I think that we are simply defining "lying" in subtly different ways.

It always comes down to definitions, doesn't it? :)

Quote
The least I can do is try to make them think slightly more about what they say the next time.
There is nobility in such a goal.

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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #171 on: May 13, 2011, 04:06:47 PM »
Well, I'm sorry for breaking the rules.  I won't post anymore.  God bless.

Oh, that makes it all better. This way, you don't have to take any responsibility, or make any ammends.
 

 
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #172 on: May 13, 2011, 04:08:19 PM »
i]as well as I was able to be[/i].

Key words there. Honesty is being free from lies...including self lies and deliberate avoidances of uncomfortable facts.

If you want it to read "Sort of Honest" then my statement isn't true
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: God does heal amputees
« Reply #173 on: May 13, 2011, 04:25:35 PM »
Servant of God is absolutely correct. I am a slave of the evil one. And right now the evil one wants a ham and cheese sandwich on a whole grain baguette. And maybe some sort of beverage. So I'm off to the store to fetch it. Later maybe I'll stop at the Mexican bakery for a piece of that nice cheesecake they make there.  The evil one is pretty easy to please, esp compared to god. :D

Buh-bye, S 'o God! Nice knowin' ya.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.