Going from Born Again to Atheism

[Turbo SS]

I was raised in a family that was Christian but not fundamental by any stretch.  Rarely went to church even.  My parents put me in a private school in middle school that was fairly fundamental.  So by the time I was 13th I was saved and completely believed it with all my heart.  I was more passionate about it than anything.  So obviously I got more involved in church and most all of my friends were christian.

I was like this probably until my mid 20's.  I started questioning things more and more.  I questioned a little bit from the beginning but I was always satisfied with the typical christian answers from my friends, teachers, pastors etc.  Anyway,  after reading the Bible more and more and reading all the evidence against christianity my faith started shaking.  I prayed to God many times for help, read the Bible more and more and asked friends and a pastor for help.  Gradually my faith disapated more and more and then one day all of the sudden it just hit.  I no longer believe in God. 

I felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders.  All of the tough questions in the world now all made sense to me.  I felt so happy!  Unfortunately, I live in the buckle of the Bible belt and still have to play along.  Most of my friends are still Christian and I am afraid I could lose them if they found out (yes they are good people otherwise and good reliable friends).  Also it could really hurt my career.  I work for a very large company however, the culture around here is pretty much everyone I have met is definitely saved or at least pretends to be.  Even though no one would say it, I know I could be passed up for promtion because of atheism.    Christians talk about how they feel persecuted all the time.  However, when you live in the Bible belt its the complete opposite.  They think you are a bad person or morally corrupt if you dont believe in God. 

Anyway, since I cant tell a single person, I wanted to get it off my chest somewhere.  Thanks for listening guys.

[Persephone]

Isn't it great to know you're not alone?

I totally understand the need to be quiet, especially in the bible belt. I used to live in the deep south, and fundamentalist Christianity is like pollution down there. But even where I am I have to tread a bit carefully.

Even  more, I totally understand the unbelievable stupidity of the idea that Christians are being persecuted.

[Zankuu]

I feel ya Turbo.

I too live in the Christian dominated belt. The people that occupy the small office I work in are ALL young earth creationists. I just found this out. I honestly thought the Noah's flood and Abraham's Dagger paintings were there simply for aesthetic value, not a confirmation of faith in a literal take on the OT. So now I'd say there is the slight possibility I could lose my job if the knowledge of my non-belief ever surfaced. Also, I have fewer atheist friends than I can count on one hand.

So if I didn't have this place to vent in from time to time I would probably explode. 

Thanks for sharing!

[Nick]

I feel ya Turbo.

I too live in the Christian dominated belt. The people that occupy the small office I work in are ALL young earth creationists. I just found this out. I honestly thought the Noah's flood and Abraham's Dagger paintings were there simply for aesthetic value, not a confirmation of faith in a literal take on the OT. So now I'd say there is the slight possibility I could lose my job if the knowledge of my non-belief ever surfaced. Also, I have fewer atheist friends than I can count on one hand.

So if I didn't have this place to vent in from time to time I would probably explode. 

Thanks for sharing!

It would be cool if you could sneak a pic of Micky Mouse or such up with the ones you mentioned.  Good laugh anyways.

[Turbo SS]

Yes I was glad I found this forum.  I felt like I was the only saved christian to change to Atheistic.  Its good to see more people like me.  I guess if the christians were right God should have killed me years ago when I was a strong believer.  Now I guess according to them, I probably lost my salvation and am going to hell.  Actually I have no idea what the Bible says about people that were saved and gave it up???

[Persephone]

Yes I was glad I found this forum.  I felt like I was the only saved christian to change to Atheistic.  Its good to see more people like me.  I guess if the christians were right God should have killed me years ago when I was a strong believer.  Now I guess according to them, I probably lost my salvation and am going to hell.  Actually I have no idea what the Bible says about people that were saved and gave it up???

Probably falls under blasphemy against the holy spirit, supposedly the only unforgivable sin.

[xphobe]

Now I guess according to them, I probably lost my salvation and am going to hell.  Actually I have no idea what the Bible says about people that were saved and gave it up???

I wouldn't worry about it.  Probably according to some Polynesian tribal religion, everyone else is going to hell.  You just aren't aware of them so it doesn't cross your radar.

I can't imagine that if God really existed he would meet you after you died, and say "Nope, you had your chance.  Of course you believe in me now, because we're standing here talking, but you blew it and it doesn't matter what you think now.  You failed the test."

If such a god did exist and really behaved like that, we'd be better off without him anyway.

[Turbo SS]

Now I guess according to them, I probably lost my salvation and am going to hell.  Actually I have no idea what the Bible says about people that were saved and gave it up???

I wouldn't worry about it.  Probably according to some Polynesian tribal religion, everyone else is going to hell.  You just aren't aware of them so it doesn't cross your radar.

I can't imagine that if God really existed he would meet you after you died, and say "Nope, you had your chance.  Of course you believe in me now, because we're standing here talking, but you blew it and it doesn't matter what you think now.  You failed the test."

If such a god did exist and really behaved like that, we'd be better off without him anyway.

I am not concerned about it.  Just more curious than anything.

[xphobe]

It would be cool if you could sneak a pic of Micky Mouse or such up with the ones you mentioned.  Good laugh anyways.

LOL!  Or how about a Robert Mapplethorpe photo?  Very artistic...

[Death over Life]

Yes I was glad I found this forum.  I felt like I was the only saved christian to change to Atheistic.  Its good to see more people like me.  I guess if the christians were right God should have killed me years ago when I was a strong believer.  Now I guess according to them, I probably lost my salvation and am going to hell.  Actually I have no idea what the Bible says about people that were saved and gave it up???

The Bible says that those who were saved, but lost it, would have been better had they never been born, (thanks God! I didn't get to choose that anyways!) implying that if you lose your salvation, you are even more screwed than had you never been saved.

Of course, this is the same Bible that talks about Prodigal Sons and they can't even get the faith vs. works-faith down for salvation, so who really is to say?

Don't worry, as I am somewhat similar to you. My de-conversion was only recently myself. Used to be a Christian for over a decade, and was really into it for the past 3 years of my life. I know why you should keep silent, as me telling my close friends, and a co-worker, apparantly got them into trying to re-convert me. I shall mind you they are the ignorant kind. Great people, but damn they are ignorant.

My close friend believes the Bible is the Written Word of God because it says it in the Bible, and because the Bible says it is The Written Word of God and is True, therefore it is True. Circular logic I know. He even had the audacity to say that God is all good. I have another friend who then said if God decides one day to have somebody deliberately rape a child or this individual is sinning if not, would this rape be good because God ordained this to happen? Astonishingly, there answer was YES!!! 

Why I mention this is the theme is, they are correct. It doesn't matter how incorrect they are, they are correct. I have tried showing them the reality of reality and it's Truths, but there remarks are either, completely ignoring what I say and just go back to preaching at me, or saying no, you are wrong, the Bible says it differently than what you are trying to say. They also like to play childish games, where I say they are wrong and show it, and they just say, no your' wrong.

That is why I feel atheists keep their mouths shut, because you guys don't want to go through this stupidity. But with that all being said, you and I are alike Turbo SS, so don't feel that you are left alone.

One of the final straws for me as well, was from this website from an ex-Christian, so here is more evidence that you aren't the only one. Great website imo.

http://www.christianitydisproved.com/

Btw, I should probably create another thread, but if anybody has any advice on that, don't mind pming me or just wait until I make a thread?

[Persephone]

^^ You might enjoy Matt McCormick's blog. It is a useful collection of arguments and links.

http://atheismblog.blogspot.com/

[Jezebel]

I live in Canada-- our religious atmosphere is substantially different. It's considered in somewhat poor taste to "talk" about religion; people still say crap like, "I'll pray for you" and "God works in mysterious ways" and if you really get talking to someone they might start getting more "personal." But overall you don't find the same exclusivity and saturation in the workplace. Atheists are still a little unacceptable (sometimes I think it's just TOO strong a religious stance and people here are uncomfortable with really strong religious expression; if I just said, "I don't believe in god" there would probably be a more favourable reaction, which is hilarious to me), but overall people expect that there will be other people around with different beliefs.

My advice to someone in the bible belt who is an atheist is to MOVE. I don't even mean that in a flippant way. Maybe it's a matter of what you're used to, but I can't stand 5 minutes of exposure to bible belt media; my blood pressure goes all the way up to heaven, looking to kick god's ass. Maybe it's better to have people on the "inside"-- in which case I'm just grateful for the sacrifice, I guess. But if you can't even be your honest and real self with your friends...? How long until you start feeling real resentment, or feel your integrity is compromised? I know I've stopped hanging out with people who have "found god" because I can't stand sitting there listening to them go on about how "god showed them this..." and "god gave me strength for that..." and bite my tongue because I know they're basically good people and I don't want to be nasty, but all the time thinking, "Can't you see that's ridiculous? Have you ever actually thought about this? What about..." and going in for the head-to-head believer/atheist match. It doesn't sit well with me to pretend to be what I'm not, and what I AM is anti-religion. My atheism I could keep to myself comfortably. But my anti-religion is a valid stance that involves the well being of others; it's like being a member of Amnesty International or the World Wildlife Foundation. It matters, and every time I DON'T put forth those views when the subject comes up is another day religious thinking remains acceptable and normal. I'm not saying I'm going to change the world. I'm saying it makes me feel sleazy to participate in what I consider an ugly, barbaric lie that causes suffering worldwide, because "silence signals consent."[1]

So, seriously... as an atheist in the bible belt I'd last less than a day before the townspeople were chasing me down with torches and pitchforks. Are you ever going to be comfortable with it? Is it possible to be comfortable with it? Are there positive factors that substantially outweigh the negative in terms of living there? Maybe if all the atheists moved out of the bible belt (which includes all the people who secretly DON'T believe but can't say so) the south would secede and they could be their own country with their own creationist textbooks and religious politics. Social evolution can take it from there.

1.	That is not necessarily true in all cases for all things, but in this context people will believe, by default, that you are "one of them" and agree with them, which only reinforces the religious mentality that thinks belief without evidence is normal.

[xphobe]

My advice to someone in the bible belt who is an atheist is to MOVE. I don't even mean that in a flippant way. Maybe it's a matter of what you're used to, but I can't stand 5 minutes of exposure to bible belt media

I can appreciate your feeling, but it's easier said than done.  I don't know if Texas is considered the bible belt, but people here are definitely religious.  Yet, it is my home.  I belong here and I love the place.  Religion is annoying, but my atheism doesn't define me, it's just one part of my overall personality.  I don't hide what I am.  My friends, even the religious ones, all know I'm an atheist.  If somebody has chosen to cut off a relationship with me because of it, I'm not aware; I don't need those people anyway.  I would rather live in Texas and try to set an example of a good ethical hard-working non-religious citizen and neighbor, than to move to some state that is less appealing in other ways just because it isn't quite as religious.

[Jezebel]

I would rather live in Texas and try to set an example of a good ethical hard-working non-religious citizen and neighbor, than to move to some state that is less appealing in other ways just because it isn't quite as religious.

Well then once again I say, "thank you" for doing what I couldn't. My point was intended more for those that don't have "positive factors that substantially outweigh the negative," I guess, and the important thing is that you can be yourself. Maybe because I hear so much about how difficult it is to be an atheist is the US, especially in the bible belt, I've formed a disproportionate perception.

[Turbo SS]

My advice to someone in the bible belt who is an atheist is to MOVE. I don't even mean that in a flippant way. Maybe it's a matter of what you're used to, but I can't stand 5 minutes of exposure to bible belt media

I can appreciate your feeling, but it's easier said than done.  I don't know if Texas is considered the bible belt, but people here are definitely religious.  Yet, it is my home.  I belong here and I love the place.  Religion is annoying, but my atheism doesn't define me, it's just one part of my overall personality.  I don't hide what I am.  My friends, even the religious ones, all know I'm an atheist.  If somebody has chosen to cut off a relationship with me because of it, I'm not aware; I don't need those people anyway.  I would rather live in Texas and try to set an example of a good ethical hard-working non-religious citizen and neighbor, than to move to some state that is less appealing in other ways just because it isn't quite as religious.

Thanks for all the replies and the links guys.  I will check them out when I get a chance!

As far as living in the Bible Belt, I live in Oklahoma.  I was born and raised here.  I moved to Florida for 2 years to get my masters degree, but the whole time I was there I just wanted to come back to OK. I know that sounds crazy.  I actually love living here in my city.  My family and most of my friends live here.  Eventhough I have many saved friends, I still have friends that are christian in name only and one atheist friend.  Its like this state is full of retards but they are my retards! haha  I cant imagine living anywhere else long term. 

Although I do agree it would be nice sometime to be in a place and openly talk about atheism without getting the evil eye.

[Death over Life]

^^ You might enjoy Matt McCormick's blog. It is a useful collection of arguments and links.

http://atheismblog.blogspot.com/

I took a quick glance at the site, and I am not very fond of the layout of the site. Makes it very off-putting. The layout reminds me a little bit of jesus-is-saviour.com, but I’ll give the site a chance.

I live in Canada-- our religious atmosphere is substantially different. It's considered in somewhat poor taste to "talk" about religion; people still say crap like, "I'll pray for you" and "God works in mysterious ways" and if you really get talking to someone they might start getting more "personal." But overall you don't find the same exclusivity and saturation in the workplace. Atheists are still a little unacceptable (sometimes I think it's just TOO strong a religious stance and people here are uncomfortable with really strong religious expression; if I just said, "I don't believe in god" there would probably be a more favourable reaction, which is hilarious to me), but overall people expect that there will be other people around with different beliefs.

My advice to someone in the bible belt who is an atheist is to MOVE. I don't even mean that in a flippant way. Maybe it's a matter of what you're used to, but I can't stand 5 minutes of exposure to bible belt media; my blood pressure goes all the way up to heaven, looking to kick god's ass. Maybe it's better to have people on the "inside"-- in which case I'm just grateful for the sacrifice, I guess. But if you can't even be your honest and real self with your friends...? How long until you start feeling real resentment, or feel your integrity is compromised? I know I've stopped hanging out with people who have "found god" because I can't stand sitting there listening to them go on about how "god showed them this..." and "god gave me strength for that..." and bite my tongue because I know they're basically good people and I don't want to be nasty, but all the time thinking, "Can't you see that's ridiculous? Have you ever actually thought about this? What about..." and going in for the head-to-head believer/atheist match. It doesn't sit well with me to pretend to be what I'm not, and what I AM is anti-religion. My atheism I could keep to myself comfortably. But my anti-religion is a valid stance that involves the well being of others; it's like being a member of Amnesty International or the World Wildlife Foundation. It matters, and every time I DON'T put forth those views when the subject comes up is another day religious thinking remains acceptable and normal. I'm not saying I'm going to change the world. I'm saying it makes me feel sleazy to participate in what I consider an ugly, barbaric lie that causes suffering worldwide, because "silence signals consent."[1]

So, seriously... as an atheist in the bible belt I'd last less than a day before the townspeople were chasing me down with torches and pitchforks. Are you ever going to be comfortable with it? Is it possible to be comfortable with it? Are there positive factors that substantially outweigh the negative in terms of living there? Maybe if all the atheists moved out of the bible belt (which includes all the people who secretly DON'T believe but can't say so) the south would secede and they could be their own country with their own creationist textbooks and religious politics. Social evolution can take it from there.

1.	That is not necessarily true in all cases for all things, but in this context people will believe, by default, that you are "one of them" and agree with them, which only reinforces the religious mentality that thinks belief without evidence is normal.

Sounds like Black Metal/Death Metal would be your best friend if you are afraid of being around Christians!

One thing I love about my music (which is a big part of my life), it is a heavy religious freak/chick repellant.

And if I could dress up the way I want to, I guarantee you I will have so much fun having people offended. Don’t get me wrong, the Bible Belt is extreme in the views, but I think the anti-atheism where I live at least is a little over exaggerated. Although I live in the Bible belt, most people really don’t care what you believe, except for the extremists. Hell, if I can go into a Church with some Satanic Band Shirt with some Satanic Imagery and NOT get challenged or kicked out, then I feel that the religious aren’t as religious as they claim to be. If I can do that, then I don’t know what really would tick off a believer that doesn’t require such dark sadomasochistic actions, which I would not encourage.

I can appreciate your feeling, but it's easier said than done.  I don't know if Texas is considered the bible belt, but people here are definitely religious.  Yet, it is my home.  I belong here and I love the place.  Religion is annoying, but my atheism doesn't define me, it's just one part of my overall personality.  I don't hide what I am.  My friends, even the religious ones, all know I'm an atheist.  If somebody has chosen to cut off a relationship with me because of it, I'm not aware; I don't need those people anyway.  I would rather live in Texas and try to set an example of a good ethical hard-working non-religious citizen and neighbor, than to move to some state that is less appealing in other ways just because it isn't quite as religious.

I live in Texas as well! Which city, just in case we are actually in the same city? If you wish and don’t feel comfortable posting the location, feel free to pm me.

Also, I live in the country, so my interactions with the humans are pretty much non-existent.

Thanks for all the replies and the links guys.  I will check them out when I get a chance!

As far as living in the Bible Belt, I live in Oklahoma.  I was born and raised here.  I moved to Florida for 2 years to get my masters degree, but the whole time I was there I just wanted to come back to OK. I know that sounds crazy.  I actually love living here in my city.  My family and most of my friends live here.  Eventhough I have many saved friends, I still have friends that are christian in name only and one atheist friend.  Its like this state is full of retards but they are my retards! haha  I cant imagine living anywhere else long term. 

Although I do agree it would be nice sometime to be in a place and openly talk about atheism without getting the evil eye.

But you have to admit though, religious giving you the evil eye can be far more entertaining than anything on TV nowadays. I know the religious love to go over the top with their beliefs, but you can really use it to your advantage to make them look bad and have fun at it at the same time. Stoning 2 Christians with 1 rock as the Bible loves to always say!

[xphobe]

I live in Texas as well! Which city, just in case we are actually in the same city? If you wish and don’t feel comfortable posting the location, feel free to pm me.

Doesn't bother me at all.  Everyone here knows I make no secret of the fact that I live in the Houston area. 

PLUG: The 4th Annual Atheist Alliance International/Texas Freethought Convention in Houston on Friday, October 7, 2011 through Sunday.  Don't forget!

[puffdaddy]

Hey turbo,

We dont all keep our passion like a born again.  It's like when you date a chick for the first time and then it wears off.  Dont be discouraged. 

Remember when God created the world it was perfect.  We fucked it up.  The only way he could fix it again without waving his magic wand and treating us like robots (as you know we were given free will) was to prove to us that his world was perfect and sin fucks everything up.

To show that this is utterly necessary,  instead of putting us through the bullshit while he sits up there like a boss in his suit, he came down to our level in the flesh(Jesus) and suffered a torturous death no human will ever be asked to endure. 

I'm guessing he would have rather just waved his wand but he actually gives a shit about us.

This life is just a blink of an eye with eternal effects. 

[xphobe]

puff:

-1.  Quit preaching.

[puffdaddy]

If you dont want to look xphobe man turn and look away...We're all preachin about something aren't we?

It's not pretty but we gotta dig into this shit.  If it wasn't important we wouldn't be at this meeting.

[Aaron123]

Remember when God created the world it was perfect.  We fucked it up.

By eating an apple.

The only way he could fix it again without waving his magic wand and treating us like robots (as you know we were given free will) was to prove to us that his world was perfect

Which got "fucked up" because someone muched on an apple.

and sin fucks everything up.

SIN: it's more powerful than god.

To show that this is utterly necessary,  instead of putting us through the bullshit while he sits up there like a boss in his suit, he came down to our level in the flesh(Jesus) and suffered a torturous death no human will ever be asked to endure. 

I'm guessing he would have rather just waved his wand but he actually gives a shit about us.

Or he could've just said "damn, this apple business is just goofy!"

Remember kids: An apple a day keeps god away!

[xphobe]

If you dont want to look xphobe man turn and look away...We're all preachin about something aren't we?

Suit yourself.  It was more a bit of advice.  Read the Rules.   No preaching.  This is enforced pretty strictly by the mods here.

[Astreja]

Remember when God created the world it was perfect.

Unsupported assertion.  No evidence for your god; no evidence that it created the world; no meaningful definition of 'perfect' as it pertains to this planet and also no evidence that it ever was perfect.

The only way he could fix it again without waving his magic wand and treating us like robots (as you know we were given free will) was to prove to us that his world was perfect and sin fucks everything up.

And being condemned to eternal torture for not believing in this nonsense is somehow superior to being treated like a robot?  I.  Think.  Not.

To show that this is utterly necessary,  instead of putting us through the bullshit while he sits up there like a boss in his suit, he came down to our level in the flesh(Jesus) and suffered a torturous death no human will ever be asked to endure.

Absolute rubbish.  According to the Gospels, Jesus was on the cross for a mere 3 hours.  There are millions of people on this planet who have suffered more than that.  Millions.

And then the blighter allegedly came back to life and got promoted to Vice-President of the universe.  There was no actual sacrifice in the true sense of the word.  Perhaps if Jesus had not come back to life and instead had volunteered to go to hell for eternity as a substitute for everyone else...

[Tarranon]

Hey turbo,

We dont all keep our passion like a born again.  It's like when you date a chick for the first time and then it wears off.  Dont be discouraged. 

Remember when God created the world it was perfect.  We fucked it up.  The only way he could fix it again without waving his magic wand and treating us like robots (as you know we were given free will) was to prove to us that his world was perfect and sin fucks everything up.

To show that this is utterly necessary,  instead of putting us through the bullshit while he sits up there like a boss in his suit, he came down to our level in the flesh(Jesus) and suffered a torturous death no human will ever be asked to endure. 

I'm guessing he would have rather just waved his wand but he actually gives a shit about us.

This life is just a blink of an eye with eternal effects.

 Are these out of order? I think I'm replying to all of these out of order!

 Dude, puff, you go dawg!. It's good to know that God "giving a shit about us" is letting us languish in misery and disease and death!

 But that's not what I want to talk to you about, bro. Bro, dude, you got some mad trippin going on up ins- you gotta represent. Hard. Like a catholic priest eying the prepubescent dong kind of hard. But actually harder, like, you wouldn't believe how many wangs are floating about in that guy's head. He has all the wangs. All of them. REPRESENT!

[Agent K-Dog]

I understand what you are saying. I was brought up Baptist is a bible belt town myself.  I was Baptisted at age 12. As I got older I started to question many things and realized there were other Christian sects out there: Catholic, Protestant, etc. Then I realized there were literally hundreds of religions throughout the world from different cultures. I thought to myself,"Why is my religion I chose the right religion?" While I am reluctanct to call myself 'Athiest', I consider myself more of an agnostic - someone that believes in the possibility of a god, but would like proof.  Athiest is just to 'taboo' sounding for me I guess.  I have a number of Christian friends, and a handfull of diehard Christian friends. Of course, there is nothing I can say to my diehard Christian friends to open there minds a little bit and think outside the religious box. Most my friends know my position on relgion and when around me there is a 'no preaching zone.'

[Hatter23]

Hey turbo,

We dont all keep our passion like a born again.  It's like when you date a chick for the first time and then it wears off.  Dont be discouraged. 

Remember when God created the world

Support this assertion.

it was perfect.

Support this assertion.

We fucked it up.  The only way he could fix it again without waving his magic wand and treating us like robots (as you know we were given free will)

Support this assertion.

 was to prove to us that his world was perfect and sin fucks everything up.

To show that this is utterly necessary,  instead of putting us through the bullshit while he sits up there like a boss in his suit, he came down to our level in the flesh(Jesus) and suffered a torturous death no human will ever be asked to endure. 

Support this assertion.  Please note people have been asked to endure worse.

I'm guessing he would have rather just waved his wand but he actually gives a shit about us.

This life is just a blink of an eye with eternal effects.

Support this assertion.

[jaimehlers]

Despite the fact that this thread was necroed, I do have to point out the utter ridiculousness of the statement that Jesus suffered worse than any other human.  What's described in the Bible is pretty awful, but I'm pretty sure that plenty of someones throughout the grand spread of human history have suffered worse than being savagely beaten, forced to carry a heavy object for some distance, being physically nailed to said heavy object, then being stabbed in order to hasten death.

[Brakeman]

Despite the fact that this thread was necroed, I do have to point out the utter ridiculousness of the statement that Jesus suffered worse than any other human.  What's described in the Bible is pretty awful, but I'm pretty sure that plenty of someones throughout the grand spread of human history have suffered worse than being savagely beaten, forced to carry a heavy object for some distance, being physically nailed to said heavy object, then being stabbed in order to hasten death.

No, the hilariously ironic part of that claim is that the church itself devised tortures during the inquisitions that were much worse in terms of prolonged agony and pain.

[jaimehlers]

True.  Good point.