Psychics: A Scam or a Legitimate Profession?

[Persephone]

I don't fault you for not seeing it, I would only suggest that you are far too quick to dismiss it without really knowing.

Define "knowing". Please avoid using synonyms in your definition. Also, please avoid using references to emotions as that sort of "knowing" is only something an individual can understand.

I am only interested in the kind of "knowing" that I can experience in the same way others can experience this "knowing", and that requires facts that all can observe, not fuzzy feelings.

I am only doing what I am supposed to do: test the spirits to know where the truth is, right? How can I know what the truth is if you and 40,000 other people each tell me what you know to be true and you don't agree with one another? To whom shall I listen?

[servantofgod]

I don't fault you for not seeing it, I would only suggest that you are far too quick to dismiss it without really knowing.

Define "knowing". Please avoid using synonyms in your definition. Also, please avoid using references to emotions as that sort of "knowing" is only something an individual can understand.

I am only interested in the kind of "knowing" that I can experience in the same way others can experience this "knowing", and that requires facts that all can observe, not fuzzy feelings.

I am only doing what I am supposed to do: test the spirits to know where the truth is, right? How can I know what the truth is if you and 40,000 other people each tell me what you know to be true and you don't agree with one another? To whom shall I listen?

Well, all I can tell you is it took God to show me that there is a spiritual reality.  I don't know why some do see it, and others don't.  I just know I didn't see it until I saw shown the truth.  Until that point, I was wholly ignorant of it. 

Which is why I would tell you..if you want to know the truth, ask God to show it to you.  I was told to come to this forum and tell anyone who will listen that Jesus will reveal Himself to anyone here who asks in sincere prayer.  I was given this word:

Matthew 11:28

Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest

God will let you know.  Test Him and see.

[mram]

Has god taken you to the mountaintop to let you peek over to see the promise land too? I bet it's full of freeways, traffic, slums and pollution by now.. 

[Persephone]

Well, all I can tell you is it took God to show me that there is a spiritual reality.  I don't know why some do see it, and others don't.  I just know I didn't see it until I saw shown the truth.  Until that point, I was wholly ignorant of it. 

Which is why I would tell you..if you want to know the truth, ask God to show it to you.  I was told to come to this forum and tell anyone who will listen that Jesus will reveal Himself to anyone here who asks in sincere prayer.  I was given this word:

Matthew 11:28

Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest

God will let you know.  Test Him and see.

I did test him. I did "know" him. I did pray, and read my bible, and all of that. I was born again.

I guess I'll be in hell because I walked away from years of that. I have more peace now than I ever had when I was a believer. Scout's honor.

[mram]

Well, all I can tell you is it took God to show me that there is a spiritual reality.  I don't know why some do see it, and others don't.  I just know I didn't see it until I saw shown the truth.  Until that point, I was wholly ignorant of it. 

Which is why I would tell you..if you want to know the truth, ask God to show it to you.  I was told to come to this forum and tell anyone who will listen that Jesus will reveal Himself to anyone here who asks in sincere prayer.  I was given this word:

Matthew 11:28

Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest

God will let you know.  Test Him and see.

I did test him. I did "know" him. I did pray, and read my bible, and all of that. I was born again.

I guess I'll be in hell because I walked away from 30 years of that. I have more peace now than I ever had when I was a believer. Scout's honor.

I did that number too and did my share of begging for god and jebus to 'enter my heart"...even sat out in freezing cold weather begging god for a ride before I froze to death.. He finally provided that ride.. Some really perverted old man who wanted to pay me to let him.....Oh never mind.. I got back out and froze a while till he gave me another ride from some drunk looking for a drinking buddy for the night..  Haleelooyee...eh?
I've since decided the ONLY person getting in my heart is a qualified, accredited cardiac surgeon. 

[Fiji]

Fun thing with the Bible, it has a verse for every occasion ...

Well, all I can tell you is it took God to show me that there is a spiritual reality.  I don't know why some do see it, and others don't.  I just know I didn't see it until I saw shown the truth.  Until that point, I was wholly ignorant of it. 

Which is why I would tell you..if you want to know the truth, ask God to show it to you.  I was told to come to this forum and tell anyone who will listen that Jesus will reveal Himself to anyone here who asks in sincere prayer.  I was given this word:

Matthew 11:28

Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest

God will let you know.  Test Him and see.

Luke 4:12
And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

[Anfauglir]

I was told to come to this forum and tell anyone who will listen that Jesus will reveal Himself to anyone here who asks in sincere prayer. ...... God will let you know.  Test Him and see.

I did.

Nothing happened.

What now?

[jedweber]

There is a spiritual reality, and psychics are tuned into this.  However, it is a force only for evil on this world.  Psychics hear from evil spirits, who spread lies about the truth.

So when psychics are wrong, it's because evil spirits have lied to them, not because their claimed powers don't exist? 

I don't get it, if Satan wanted psychics to lead more people astray, why wouldn't he give them more impressive skills, instead of results that can usually be explained by cold reading, gullible customers, etc.?

[Jezebel]

Once again the theist says, "If you don't believe what I say is true it's because you haven't looked" and the atheist says, "I did look-- I was a believer for years. I prayed. I asked. I searched. I read the bible, I went to church, I went to youth group. I invited Jesus into my heard, I tried to know him. I asked god to show me the light. I did EVERYTHING you and all others like you have told me to do. So obviously it ISN'T just a matter of asking god to show me." And the theist replies, "Well then you didn't try/ask/pray enough..."

They will never, ever, ever get it.

The reason it infuriates me is because it's tantamount, in my opinion, to calling me a liar. Doesn't matter what I say about my experience-- obviously if I say I tried my BEST I must be lying because if I HAD then I would ALSO believe. Doesn't matter if I say I WANTED to believe-- obviously that is a lie, too, or else I WOULD believe. They only way they can validate THEIR experience is to accuse mine of being false. The only way they can maintain THEIR truth is to call mine a lie. So instead of empathy, or understanding, or even basic communication-- instead of coming here and saying, "Oh really? You did try? Hmm... I wonder why we're different then," and actually THINKING about it, they show up, tell us to do what we've ALREADY done, and as soon as we don't all confess to having hated god and deliberately turned from him and suddenly seeing the light because some yahoo told us to "LOOK" they start in with the "you aren't being honest, you never really had faith" crap.

What's NOT honest is refusing to accept that someone's experience is DIFFERENT from yours because you are SO sure you are right you can't even COMPREHEND an alternative, and attacking the integrity and honesty of the same people you are allegedly trying to "HELP."

</rant>

[nogodsforme]

I should point out that I never said I was "donkey-endowed" in the thread she's referring to. So the only conclusion I can reach is that she's starting to project some of the inner workings of her sexual desires onto me.

I love it when you talk dirty to me. If that is what you were doing.....

[Alzael]

I love it when you talk dirty to me.

You would be amazed at how often I hear that from women. Usually somewhere before the restraining order, but still......

[Add Homonym]

Well, all I can tell you is it took God to show me that there is a spiritual reality.  I don't know why some do see it, and others don't.  I just know I didn't see it until I saw shown the truth.  Until that point, I was wholly ignorant of it. 

How did you know it was God? In the computer arena, peers are validated by SSL certificates.

How did you tell the difference between God and Satan? If it's that obvious to you, then why is it not obvious to others?

Sounds to me like you are in the grip of Satan, buddy. I will pray for you.

[Fiji]

Once again the theist says, "If you don't believe what I say is true it's because you haven't looked" and the atheist says, "I did look-- I was a believer for years. I prayed. I asked. I searched. I read the bible, I went to church, I went to youth group. I invited Jesus into my heard, I tried to know him. I asked god to show me the light. I did EVERYTHING you and all others like you have told me to do. So obviously it ISN'T just a matter of asking god to show me." And the theist replies, "Well then you didn't try/ask/pray enough..."

They will never, ever, ever get it.

And guess what ... the Theist is right.
If you pray really really hard and really really long, there's a big chance you will encounter God.

You see, meditation, of which prayer is a form, has been show to have a measurable effect on the brain (f.e. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361002/ ) ... in the regions of the brain that control:

attention, interoception and sensory processing

Or to put it another way, you become supremely aware of everything going on inside your body. Throw in the fact that your brain isn't really doing all that much at the time and thus has 'processing power' left over to do what comes natural, ie. make up connection between unrelated stuff, cause, you know, that's what we, humans, do. And sooner or later something funny happens inside you that a) you never would otherwise notice, b) is perfectly natural and c) you'd otherwise, IF you noticed it, dismiss without a second thought. And *poof* your brain sticks the label "God" on it (or Holy Ghost, or Allah, or Nirvana ... depending on what lies you've been fed as a kid).

Also note that one part of the brain that is affected by meditation is the Insular cortex ... the part of the brain that's responsible for ... addiction.
A single experience of 'God' thus conditions your brain to want to experience it again.

Therefor, prayer is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If you set out to genuinely want to experience God ... it's highly likely that you will experience God (a god who solely resides inside your own skull, of course, but it feels gooooooood, lets do that again).

^{Did I just explain Ray Comfort?}

[nogodsforme]

^^^^^Cue Robert Palmer: "Might as well face it, you're addicted to god."

[mram]

I'm not sure, but my mother had and died from brain cancer, but before she died the surgeons removed a big chunk of it and might have removed god while they were at it!  Maybe god is somewhere in a lab now sitting in a jar with my mothers name on it..  Well that solves it!   

By the way, I REALLY miss dear old mom.. She was a wonderful lady and funny.. She deserved better, but fate did her in.. 

[Fiji]

mram ... they very well might have sliced god out of her. (brain surgery always makes me cringe btw)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/god-brain-tumor-surgery-points-brains-religious-center/story?id=9796634
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=brain-surgery-boosts-spiritual

ok, these are examples of religiosity INCREASING ... but that's because the brain's safeguards were removed.
It stands to reason that cutting out other parts could reduce or entirely remove religiosity.

(if anyone has any examples ... I'm interrested)

[EV]

I LOVE the way that every thread on here ends up with some Christian deciding to attempt to argue with a load of very clever Atheists...

it ISN'T just a matter of asking god to show me." And the theist replies, "Well then you didn't try/ask/pray enough..."

They will never, ever, ever get it.

What's NOT honest is refusing to accept that someone's experience is DIFFERENT from yours because you are SO sure you are right you can't even COMPREHEND an alternative, and attacking the integrity and honesty of the same people you are allegedly trying to "HELP."

It is true, that always seems to be the answer of most dedicated theists. I had a very interesting encounter with a born again Christian the other weekend, he accosted me outside of the Shopping Centre and tried to tell me I was evil. Of course, he was a bit perplexed when I told him I was a Satanist and asked him back to my house to sacrifice a pig to the dark lord. That was one funny afternoon  He wouldn't accept my opinion anyway, even when I asked him if he wanted to know more about my opinion. He ran away. That isn't very nice, he stopped me to tell me I was evil and tried forcing his views on me, and when I wanted to educate him about the power of Satan, he wasn't having any of it...

Silly Christians xD

</rant>

And Jezebel- Lol at the HTML instruction 

I'm not actually Satanist, I promise 

[Ambivalent]

This should be easy. If someone were a real "Psychic", then they would be able to predict future events. If they were literally speaking with deceased individuals, then they would be able to straight out state their names, none of this "I'm getting something that starts with an G..is there/was there someone in your family who had his name start with a 'G'?" And the easiest way to not be wrong? Even if you say; "No. No one in my family line ever had a name which began with G", the 'psychic would continue to insist that they are hearing a 'G'. They won't turn back on it. They will go deeper and deeper, make you feel vulnerable, and dig as far as they can.

A real psychic would carry the ability to change the world. They would be a new shows, in newspapers, and probably seen as remarkable people. No one would doubt them. People would flock their money just to hear their death days. 9/11 would never have happened; it would have been predicted. 

You'll notice that a lot of psychics will state general statements and then YOU provide the answer. Look out for that and you'll see what I mean. I'll give an example:

"I'm seeing some big changes in your life, new changes?!" <-Very general statement, everyone has changes, NEW changes.

Person answers; "Yes! We JUST had a baby!" <-Person (without thinking) provided answer. Now psychic will play with feelings and perspectives on having new baby.

Or things like; "I'm sensing your deceased mother was very shy."

Person: "No, no, she wasn't even close..."

Psychic: "Oh, yes, I see it now. She was very opened! Very different, she says she's just shy now."

You provide the answers.

If they were real, there 'seeing' wouldn't be generalized. Look Sylvia brown on youtube to see her failures. She's failed and had to cover up for it plenty of times. She's a scam artist.

There's nothing more disgusting to me then witnessing people feed off of other's vulnerabilities. In desperation, when someone loses a loved one, they seek them out. They're blinded by unbearable grief. People who take advantage of this grief are disgusting, and should be ashamed.