Poll

Are my opinions helpful?

Yeah they really made me curious about God
1 (1.1%)
A little
6 (6.8%)
No
48 (54.5%)
Grow up God doesn't exist
30 (34.1%)
Just stfu God doesn't exist you homo just believe me already just stfu
3 (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 85

Author Topic: To All Atheists Out There  (Read 10035 times)

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Offline Avascar

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To All Atheists Out There
« on: March 31, 2011, 07:33:59 PM »
Poll Comment of Mine:  :o Someone ACTUALLY voted the most negative option!?

Hopefully my 30-minutes-of-thinking-up-a-title title brought interest :)

This post will be of my pure opinion, please no hate or anything like "Stfu God doesn't exist" or anything like "Dude, just grow up, God doesn't exist. Period." (Christians are pretty offended by Athiests saying "GOD DOESNT EXIST HAHAHAHA:  :'( ) or anything that does not show any evidence on why you don't believe in God. Thanks :D

Anyways, let's go with the FAQ about God.

FAQ:

Q: Who is God?
A: He is the Creator of everything, his son is Jesus and his mother is Mary. I think...

Q: Who created God?
A: Good question, but no one created God, not even God himself. He is the Uncreated Creator, that's why he has no appearance :D

Q: Is the bible true?
A: I'm pretty sure it's 100% true. Besides, I heard that scientists heard Egypt in the bible, so he started finding it, and they found it :D (I think they found more ancient cities found in the bible)

Q: Why is there an old testament?
A: I skipped that part due to its history. (me dunt liek history  >:( ) It shows on what happened in the past, and it happened before Jesus came. So basically it was created by God for Jews.

Q: Why God doesn't show himself to us?
A: If your talking about God The Father, he doesn't have an appearance. If your talking about Jesus, its because it's not in his plan, or some other reason that doesn't waste his time (sorry if i offend you  :-X )

Q: I saw these miracles and they said God did it. Are they true?
A: It really depends, some are and some are not.  The false ones are just to bring attention, period. The true ones, however, are kind of hard to believe. But very few have enough proof to be real and from God.

Q: Why doesn't God help us?
A: You are dead wrong. God DOES help us, just indirectly. Let's say this: A bear was peacefully eating blueberries, until 2 hunters came and is aiming at the bear with guns. You saw them, and wanted to help the bear, so you chop a tree down blocking the hunters sight and letting the bear live and run away from the hunters. It's like that, he indirectly helps us.

Q: Why God doesn't answer our prayers?
A: He does, but indirectly. Like if you wanted to be guided to a town while it's midnight and your lost in a forest. God will send a light bug or something and it will lead you to a town. It's like that. But most of the time he doesn't answer our prayers. If we tell him "Please answer this prayer", what does he have to say? Nothing. If you tell him a prayer like "Today was really great", he won't answer because he has nothing to say.

Q: Is Jesus really the son of God?
A: Yes, he said that A MILLION TIMES (expression). He did miracles, but are they true? Look to the next question!

Q: Are Jesus' miracles true?
A: Many do not believe Jesus' miracles because it's too hard to believe. Our minds are basic, only designed for free will.

Q: Why is there suffering in the world?
A: We do many bad things, and we really arn't supposed to avoid the sufferings. Jesus has a plan that no one can understand. There are reasons why there are suffering in this world, maybe because we sinned way too much, or maybe so they can believe in Jesus, I don't even know.

Q: Why is there evil in the world?
A: Ahhh, something so I can really express my opinion to others! The Devil (Satan) does not bring evil to the world, but us.
Once, Adam and Eve had a peaceful life, everything was perfect, they also did not eat meat (it explains how Adam died in in the age of 821 or something). But, they ate the fruit of the Knowledge, which gave us a taste of what is good and bad. They only ate a bite, not a whole, so this bite from Adam and Eve... Changed our world, forever.  God then punished them, then their children sinned, and their grandchildren sinned, and so on. BUT, some people did not sin (Noah, for example). We cause evil, because we cause sins to others. For example; We steal, the one who got stolen does revenge; Someone murders, someone avenges the one who got murdered by killing; Someone died, someone goes nuts.

Q: Why did the flood occured during Noah's time?
A: Noah was the only good person (literally) in the whole world. God The Father wanted to wipe out all the humans except Noah and his family and animals. Why did God did this? Imagine your friend kicking you and stealing your stuff, and the murdering you in a night. Scary huh? Yeah, they were that bad. So God told Noah to make an ark and gather all the animals and stuff.

Q: Did God really create the Earth in seven days?
A: Yes, he did. Some people said it took billions of years, there wrong. Changing and creating is completely different. It took billions of years to change the Earth, it only took 7 days to create the Earth. You heard of the Big Bang? If true, the Big Bang lasted 0.0000000001 millisecond (Or something). Then God merged rocks and put magma in it, then let it rotate to a sun at the perfect distance, then God changed the world so we humans can live.

Q: Why in the old testament it says that those who sinned must be put to death?
A: There's a reason why it's called the Old Testament, can't you read the Table of Contents in the Bible?
We all deserve to be put to death, but God gave us another chance by sending Jesus and he died for our sins.

Q: When will be the end of the world?
A: Even Jesus doesn't even know when the world will end. God The Father has all knowledge (obvious), and there in the bible Jesus said his last words: My God My God, Why have you forsaken me?

Q: When I told God I want something, why didn't he gave me the gift?
A: If you asked for him like "I want to kill everyone!" that's an obvious no. If you asked him like "I want a desktop!" he'll give you a better gift. If you asked him like "I want money!" then he'll say no because there's no reason for God to give you money, just for your greed. If you asked him with a reason like "I want money so I can feed my family!" He'll send someone or something that is unexpected and give you some money. If you ask him something impossible like "I want a farm in our desert!" He'll give you something better because the impossible is limited in our minds.

Q: Why are you doing this?
A: I was so frustrated that you all don't believe in God. So I came here, and wanted to show you guys this.

Q: Why God hides himself?
A: I don't know. But it's part of his plan, many are really curious about this. But in my opinion, read this: Let's say I'm God (for example). I created you all, and then many of you don't believe in me. I'm kind of angry, and I see you guys turn evil very slowly, but in heaven 1000 years in Earth if a day in heaven, so I see you guys change a lot. But all of you wanted to see me, I refuse because that is not in my plan. It will waste my time, I don't have the time to do something so pathetic. (Sorry if I offend you  :( )

Q: Why do you believe in God?
A: 1: I don't want to go to Hell. 2: Just to be safe. 3: I just do. 4: It's my life. 5: He cheers me up.

Q: (by someone who asked me a question in my intro thread) How do I know my particular version of religion is the OneTrueChristian?
A: The bible brings true christians. Edited Bibles are not. If you are a Christian, you may want to read The New Testament to know Jesus' teachings well, in my deep honest opinion. You can skip the old testament, which is old.... And a testament... And is old...
---
Now, that was quite a long FAQ, I might add more if anyone has any more questions by replying :)

Anyways, let's start with my facts on why all this life is NOT an accident. (in my opinion)

1: If the Big Bang created the universe, what were the chemicals that caused it? And what created those chemicals that caused the Big Bang? And what created those chemicals that created those chemicals that created the Big Bang? (ect ect)

2: Why is the universe followed by laws. Such as gravity, ect ect.

3: Where did water come from? How was it created? (in space)

---

I guess that's about it. Please reply and don't hate me for this!  :police:


Note: If you ask a question that is in the FAQ I will ignore you. Please read the whole thing.

My past: (extra)
I was a nonbeliever, then when I was young I knew very little about God. But I began to understand him, and became a Christian. Even though I can't go to church, I read short bibles, and is now reading the real bible (GOLDEN PAINTED EDGES!  ;D ). I pray daily, not expecting an answer of God, because I pray summeries of my days.


RANDOMNESS:

EVOLUTION: If we came from monkeys, there's supposed to be no more monkeys. There are still monkeys. WTF?  :-\

ANGER: I'm God. I'm really angry that you don't believe in me. Your doing very evil things, I shall now kill you. :)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 08:13:47 PM by Avascar »

Online jetson

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2011, 07:42:58 PM »
This might not go as well as you are hoping.  Be strong, and remain calm.  Oh, and good luck!

Offline Dante

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2011, 07:43:43 PM »
Let me get this straight. If you've addressed it in the FAQ, it's off limits? So, you presume to be correct, but are unwilling to defend your assetions? Sorry, if that's indeed the case, you wont be around very long....
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2011, 07:45:17 PM »
This might not go as well as you are hoping.  Be strong, and remain calm.  Oh, and good luck!

Yeah I will, :) Thanks

Although, I'm not surprised that haters will reply in a forum  :-\

Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 07:47:51 PM »
Let me get this straight. If you've addressed it in the FAQ, it's off limits? So, you presume to be correct, but are unwilling to defend your assetions? Sorry, if that's indeed the case, you wont be around very long....

I'm not sure if this is an actual FAQ. I'm just thinking of common stuff that Athiests question about, and try to answer them with my answers and try to be very understanding for you.

Btw, I'm really confused with the rest of your post  :?

Online jetson

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 07:48:23 PM »
This might not go as well as you are hoping.  Be strong, and remain calm.  Oh, and good luck!

Yeah I will, :) Thanks

Although, I'm not surprised that haters will reply in a forum  :-\

Well, if you pay close attention to the "haters", you will learn a lot, that I can promise.  If you dismiss them, you will find yourself wondering why you thought it best to start such a thread.

The people on this site are not haters, they are atheists, so you might want to find ways to get to know them before you judge them.

Offline xphobe

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2011, 07:51:21 PM »
I hope for your sake that you are very young and naive, and haven't yet had the opportunity to really think through some of the things you accept as given in your FAQ.

We're here to help.  :angel:

<minutes till Velkyn appears with a point-by-point rebuttal: 15>

btw: I voted "a little" helpful.  They help us to understand a young naive person raised in an environment of theistic brainwashing.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 07:54:18 PM by xphobe »
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Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 07:51:52 PM »
This might not go as well as you are hoping.  Be strong, and remain calm.  Oh, and good luck!

Yeah I will, :) Thanks

Although, I'm not surprised that haters will reply in a forum  :-\

Well, if you pay close attention to the "haters", you will learn a lot, that I can promise.  If you dismiss them, you will find yourself wondering why you thought it best to start such a thread.

The people on this site are not haters, they are atheists, so you might want to find ways to get to know them before you judge them.

I guess so, I was mistaken. Sorry.

I was not saying that atheists are haters, just very few are. Which there seems to be none in this forum.

Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2011, 07:57:34 PM »
I hope for your sake that you are very young and naive, and haven't yet had the opportunity to really think through some of the things you accept as given in your FAQ.

We're here to help.  :angel:

<minutes till Velkyn appears with a point-by-point rebuttal: 15>

btw: I voted "a little" helpful.  They help us to understand a young naive person raised in an environment of theistic brainwashing.

Yeah, I'm young.

That's why I don't know what theistic brainwashing means.

Offline William

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 08:00:09 PM »
There are still monkeys. WTF?  :-\

Yes this bit of your post is certainly true and backed by evidence: monkey hear nonsense, monkey repeat nonsense  :laugh:
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Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2011, 08:01:13 PM »
There are still monkeys. WTF?  :-\

Yes this bit of your post is certainly true and backed by evidence: monkey hear nonsense, monkey repeat nonsense  :laugh:

Guess so :D

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2011, 08:01:29 PM »
You should know that most of us don't actually have the many questions you so kindly answered. Since there isn't a god in the first place, little details about Jesus and others are of little relevance. We like to play around with such things from time to time, but only to show christians how little they know about reality.

You clearly know nothing of science of the scientific explanations of existence and of life. You are asking questions about the big bang and evolution that make it clear your only training on the subject has been from other incredulous believers who are used to making stuff up anyway, so they make it up about our side as well as your own. This does not further the discussion for anyone. It would take you less than an hour to google things like the big bang and evolution to get a more accurate view of the scientific side of this discussion, and if you're not willing to do even that much, I doubt we can have much of a discussion. I, for one, am tired of giving basic science lessons to believers who believe everything we think to be true is ridiculous.

Sorry that we have a shortage of haters, but we don't have a shortage of atheists who easily grow impatient with christians who come here thinking they have all the answers when in fact all they have is their own opinion. On everything. If people came to you every day and asked "Why did jesus wear only pink?" you would wonder what the heck they were talking about. Your knowledge of science is at about that same level, as is your knowledge of what atheism is. You are more than welcome to stick around and learn about both. You will presumably continue to be a christian, but at least your knowledge base will increase and you'll have a better idea of what you're up against in the wild and whacky world of unbelief.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 08:04:17 PM »
You should know that most of us don't actually have the many questions you so kindly answered. Since there isn't a god in the first place, little details about Jesus and others are of little relevance. We like to play around with such things from time to time, but only to show christians how little they know about reality.

You clearly know nothing of science of the scientific explanations of existence and of life. You are asking questions about the big bang and evolution that make it clear your only training on the subject has been from other incredulous believers who are used to making stuff up anyway, so they make it up about our side as well as your own. This does not further the discussion for anyone. It would take you less than an hour to google things like the big bang and evolution to get a more accurate view of the scientific side of this discussion, and if you're not willing to do even that much, I doubt we can have much of a discussion. I, for one, am tired of giving basic science lessons to believers who believe everything we think to be true is ridiculous.

Sorry that we have a shortage of haters, but we don't have a shortage of atheists who easily grow impatient with christians who come here thinking they have all the answers when in fact all they have is their own opinion. On everything. If people came to you every day and asked "Why did jesus wear only pink?" you would wonder what the heck they were talking about. Your knowledge of science is at about that same level, as is your knowledge of what atheism is. You are more than welcome to stick around and learn about both. You will presumably continue to be a christian, but at least your knowledge base will increase and you'll have a better idea of what you're up against in the wild and whacky world of unbelief.

Yeah, this world is pretty messed up with all sorts of things >_>

I'm gonna experience Athiests, and probably make a better FAQ about this.

As said in the post (several times): This is my opinion.


 ;D

Offline xphobe

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2011, 08:09:09 PM »
Also, it's better if you do not quote the entire previous post.  If you must quote, choose a line or two that you think are particularly relevant.  But since you were responding to the post immediately above yours, you didn't really need to quote it at all.   Just trying to help...
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Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2011, 08:12:12 PM »
Sorry >_>"

I learned a lesson today....

Offline William

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2011, 08:17:59 PM »
As said in the post (several times): This is my opinion.

You may hold these opinions but sadly they are not yours.  They are the product of ancient minds delivered to you by the mechanisms of a meme.  You are but a vector in the process of transmission.

Free thought is probably not beyond your capability - just not exercised yet - so I do have hope for you still. :)
Git mit uns

Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2011, 08:20:46 PM »
._." All this complexication is making my mind complex leading me to a complex life and notice how complex this world is....

Such complex thoughts >_>

Offline Omen

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2011, 08:35:16 PM »
Quote
EVOLUTION: If we came from monkeys, there's supposed to be no more monkeys. There are still monkeys. WTF?  :-\

The statement doesn't make any sense, nothing in evolution precludes the existence of monkeys if we exist.  Why do you think it does?

Quote
ANGER: I'm God. I'm really angry that you don't believe in me. Your doing very evil things, I shall now kill you. :)

I have a suspicion you might be a poe.
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Offline Avascar

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2011, 08:36:29 PM »
1: It's my opinion. Basically just something random.

2: I'm not a poe. I'm just stating something random.

Offline Omen

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2011, 08:38:29 PM »
1: It's my opinion. Basically just something random.

So you feel you can make statements, conclusions, or ask other questions - where you presume false concepts about a subject and then excuse yourself from responsibility by saying its just your opinion?

Why is it ok to lie about science then simply say its your opinion?

Quote
2: I'm not a poe. I'm just stating something random.

Theist rarely know what a Poe is, which is what exactly makes it funny.
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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2011, 09:23:45 PM »
1: It's my opinion. Basically just something random.

Do you believe that it is smart move to form opinions on subjects when you've only heard one side of the argument?  Your statement about evolution and monkeys is an absolute tell that you know nothing about the theory of evolution other than what you've been told by people who probably also know nothing about the theory of evolution.  There are billions of people around the world who accept the theory of evolution.  And probably billions who do not.  Don't you think its in your best interest to see for yourself, and not regurgitate the opinions of the people who told you what to think instead of letting you think for yourself?  Anyone who tells you WHAT to think is not your friend.  Anyone who encourages you to think for yourself IS your friend.  Go learn what the theory says, then decide for yourself Avascar.  You'll be pretty embarrassed when you realize the foolishness of your monkey statement, I think. 

As a form of encouragement, please note that in general, the better understanding one has on the theory, the more likely they are to accept it (I.E. scientists who use the theory extensively are in near unanimous agreement that the theory is valid).   Interestingly enough, the opposite is true with religion.  The more you understand Christianity, the more likely you are to reject it (atheists generally know more about the bible, the history of religion, etc).   

Educate yourself about the theory, then come back here and prove it wrong.  Until you can do that, you are much like someone who claims they can make a better cake than a pastry chef, but doesn't know how to turn on the oven.   

Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Asmoday

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2011, 10:09:45 PM »
Q: Who is God?
A: He is the Creator of everything, his son is Jesus and his mother is Mary. I think...
I think you mean to say that Mary is the mother of Jesus. Not of God...

Quote
Q: Who created God?
A: Good question, but no one created God, not even God himself. He is the Uncreated Creator, that's why he has no appearance :D
Around here this is known as special pleading.

The argument usually goes like this:

1) Everything has a beginning / is created.
2) So the universe must have a beginning / must have been created.
3) God created the universe.

Atheist: Since everything has a beginning / is created, then what created God?

Theist: Oh, but my God does not have a creator. God is the uncreated creator of everything.  <-- Special pleading

Quote
Q: Is the bible true?
A: I'm pretty sure it's 100% true. Besides, I heard that scientists heard Egypt in the bible, so he started finding it, and they found it :D (I think they found more ancient cities found in the bible)
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the bible surely is not 100% true.

The mentioning of real places is no evidence for the happenings described in the story. If you follow that line of thinking, then Sherlock Holmes, Doctor Watson and Professor Moriarty must have been real persons. After all, the places mentioned in the books do exist.

Some things from the bible that are not true:

Creation in six days, the world is only 6000 years old, bats are birds, insects have four legs, a worldwide flood, the tower of Babylon, the enslavement of the Jewish people in Egypt, the seven plagues on Egypt, the destruction of the pharaoh's army, the complete Exodus, King David's kingdom as described in the bible, the destruction of Jericho, the census at the supposed time of Jesus' birth, the killing of the infants, Jesus as described in the bible, the constant gathering of thousands of Jews watching Jesus in an area occupied by the Roman empire, the crucifixion as described in the bible, the darkness of the sun following said crucifixion, the earthquake, the zombie invasion of Jerusalem (Yes, that is really written in the bible; I'm really not making this up) etc. etc. etc.

Quote
Q: Why is there an old testament?
A: I skipped that part due to its history. (me dunt liek history  >:( ) It shows on what happened in the past, and it happened before Jesus came. So basically it was created by God for Jews.
You should read the old testament. It will show God to be one of the most unpleasant, incompetent, vile, disgusting, horrifying, brutal and homicidal characters in human fiction.

Oh, and before I forget it: You do know that Jesus said repeatedly that all rules in the OT are still in full effect, right? You don't get to heaven if you don't follow them.

Quote
Q: Why God doesn't show himself to us?
A: If your talking about God The Father, he doesn't have an appearance. If your talking about Jesus, its because it's not in his plan, or some other reason that doesn't waste his time (sorry if i offend you  :-X )
You really should have a look at the OT.

Not only does God have an appearance, he actually has a body like us (he's strolling through the garden Eden for example).

Besides, if God has no appearance, how can we have been created in his likeness?

Quote
Q: I saw these miracles and they said God did it. Are they true?
A: It really depends, some are and some are not.  The false ones are just to bring attention, period. The true ones, however, are kind of hard to believe. But very few have enough proof to be real and from God.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

There are a lot of Muslims, Hindus and believers from other religions claiming miracles of their gods, too. Do you accept those too on the same flimsy basis as you accept the Christian "miracles" as true?

Quote
Q: Why doesn't God help us?
A: You are dead wrong. God DOES help us, just indirectly. Let's say this: A bear was peacefully eating blueberries, until 2 hunters came and is aiming at the bear with guns. You saw them, and wanted to help the bear, so you chop a tree down blocking the hunters sight and letting the bear live and run away from the hunters. It's like that, he indirectly helps us.
Not to be rude, but this is mere wishful thinking.

Replace "God" in the above paragraph with Vishnu, Allah, Quetzalcoatl or the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the whole thing makes as much sense as before. It's almost as if there was no divine intervention at all...


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Q: Why God doesn't answer our prayers?
A: He does, but indirectly. Like if you wanted to be guided to a town while it's midnight and your lost in a forest. God will send a light bug or something and it will lead you to a town. It's like that. But most of the time he doesn't answer our prayers. If we tell him "Please answer this prayer", what does he have to say? Nothing. If you tell him a prayer like "Today was really great", he won't answer because he has nothing to say.
Two things:

1) "Sometimes the answer is No" is a cop out. Prayers to God get fulfilled at the same rate as prayers to a milk jug or a paperclip.

2) You do know that in the bible Jesus says repeatedly that a believer can ask God for anything and God will not say No?

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Q: Is Jesus really the son of God?
A: Yes, he said that A MILLION TIMES (expression). He did miracles, but are they true? Look to the next question!
A character in a book saying something does not make it true.

According to the quran Jesus said he was not the son of God. Instead Mohammed says a million times Allah is the one true God and he is his prophet. Why don't you believe that?

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Q: Are Jesus' miracles true?
A: Many do not believe Jesus' miracles because it's too hard to believe. Our minds are basic, only designed for free will.
I said it already: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Do you believe in the miracles performed by the Buddha? If not, why not?


Oh, and by the way: There is no free will. The bible says so. According to the bible, God has decided your fate long before you were born. Your actions are all predetermined by God.

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Q: Why is there suffering in the world?
A: We do many bad things, and we really arn't supposed to avoid the sufferings. Jesus has a plan that no one can understand. There are reasons why there are suffering in this world, maybe because we sinned way too much, or maybe so they can believe in Jesus, I don't even know.
If God and Jesus have a plan for the world, then everything evil that happens is part of that plan and ultimately caused by God since it's part of the plan.

So by your own argument (and according to the bible actually) God is the source of all sin, evil and suffering.


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Q: Why is there evil in the world?
A: Ahhh, something so I can really express my opinion to others! The Devil (Satan) does not bring evil to the world, but us.
Once, Adam and Eve had a peaceful life, everything was perfect, they also did not eat meat (it explains how Adam died in in the age of 821 or something). But, they ate the fruit of the Knowledge, which gave us a taste of what is good and bad. They only ate a bite, not a whole, so this bite from Adam and Eve... Changed our world, forever.  God then punished them, then their children sinned, and their grandchildren sinned, and so on. BUT, some people did not sin (Noah, for example). We cause evil, because we cause sins to others. For example; We steal, the one who got stolen does revenge; Someone murders, someone avenges the one who got murdered by killing; Someone died, someone goes nuts.
I will have to go a little in depth here.

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Once, Adam and Eve had a peaceful life, everything was perfect, they also did not eat meat (it explains how Adam died in in the age of 821 or something).
You do realize that this is just a story, right?

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But, they ate the fruit of the Knowledge, which gave us a taste of what is good and bad. They only ate a bite, not a whole, so this bite from Adam and Eve... Changed our world, forever.  God then punished them,
There's a major problem with the story of Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve were created without the knowledge of what is good and what is bad. But without such knowledge it is impossible for a human to make any kind of decisions about which actions are right and which are wrong. Then Adam and Eve were given the order not to eat from the tree of knowledge, because to do so would be bad...

Do you see the problem here?

And let's not forget the snake. God created the snake and put it in the garden (along with the tree), knowing full well what would happen but that did not stop him. And no, before you say it, the snake was not the devil. The snake was a snake.

The whole thing is like putting a young child in a room and you lay a cookie in front of him. Then, before leaving the room, you tell the child not to eat it. Then another adult (which you invited to come into the room and you know full well what he's going to do) comes in and tells the child to eat the cookie.

In God's case, God would come back into the room and beat the s**t out of the child for eating the cookie after the other adult told the child to do it.

God punishes Adam and Eve for disobeying an order they could not follow simply because they did not understand it without having eaten the fruit. 

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then their children sinned, and their grandchildren sinned, and so on.
Actually, according to the bible we don't get condemned for our own actions but what condemns us is the original sin of Adam and Eve eating the fruit (which is why according to the bible dead babies go to hell since they too carry the original sin and they don't believe in Jesus yet).

God condemns people to eternal torture in hell for something they had absolutely no say in.

Adam and Eve sinned by eating the fruit but instead of just punishing Adam and Eve, God punishes all humans.

Tell me, Avascar, is it good and just to punish all for the actions of two?

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BUT, some people did not sin (Noah, for example).
It's interesting that God wipes out all humans on earth except for a sinless family, yet afterward sin is still there as if nothing happened.

Read the old testament; God is utterly incompetent. The fun part is that he's powerful enough to create the universe but later humans with iron chariots are too powerful for him to beat (Yes, that's exactly what the bible says. Read it, if you don't believe me.)

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Q: Why did the flood occured during Noah's time?
A: Noah was the only good person (literally) in the whole world. God The Father wanted to wipe out all the humans except Noah and his family and animals. Why did God did this? Imagine your friend kicking you and stealing your stuff, and the murdering you in a night. Scary huh? Yeah, they were that bad. So God told Noah to make an ark and gather all the animals and stuff.
So what about all those children and the babies? Were they completely evil, too?

And if everyone was so evil, how come they just stood by while Noah was building his ark?

How come an omniscient God comes up with a plan that fails so miserably at eradicating sin?

And you do know that this is merely a story, right? There was no worldwide flood. Not only is there no evidence of a global flood, but the whole story is so utterly ridiculous. I will go further into this if need be.

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Q: Did God really create the Earth in seven days?
A: Yes, he did. Some people said it took billions of years, there wrong. Changing and creating is completely different. It took billions of years to change the Earth, it only took 7 days to create the Earth. You heard of the Big Bang? If true, the Big Bang lasted 0.0000000001 millisecond (Or something). Then God merged rocks and put magma in it, then let it rotate to a sun at the perfect distance, then God changed the world so we humans can live.
Except that our solar system (including the earth) was not "created" in seven days.

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Q: Why in the old testament it says that those who sinned must be put to death?
A: There's a reason why it's called the Old Testament, can't you read the Table of Contents in the Bible?
We all deserve to be put to death, but God gave us another chance by sending Jesus and he died for our sins.
Deserve to be put to death? That's the kind of attitude that devalues life (both your own and that of everybody else)

And I will say it again: Jesus himself said that the rules of the OT are not abolished. They are in full effect to the last point and stroke of the letter.

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Q: When will be the end of the world?
A: Even Jesus doesn't even know when the world will end. God The Father has all knowledge (obvious), and there in the bible Jesus said his last words: My God My God, Why have you forsaken me?
The end of the world will either be in several billion years when the sun will expand and first burn this planet to a crisp before swallow it or when a giant meteor or an off course planetoid crashes into it.

If you mean the end of the world as described in the bible, I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's fiction.

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Q: When I told God I want something, why didn't he gave me the gift?
A: If you asked for him like "I want to kill everyone!" that's an obvious no. If you asked him like "I want a desktop!" he'll give you a better gift. If you asked him like "I want money!" then he'll say no because there's no reason for God to give you money, just for your greed. If you asked him with a reason like "I want money so I can feed my family!" He'll send someone or something that is unexpected and give you some money. If you ask him something impossible like "I want a farm in our desert!" He'll give you something better because the impossible is limited in our minds.
Except that Jesus himself says that every prayer will be fulfilled.

'Whatever you ask in my name, it will be given to you', moving mountains and so on.

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Q: Why are you doing this?
A: I was so frustrated that you all don't believe in God. So I came here, and wanted to show you guys this.
What exactly frustrates you about people not believing in your god (or any gods for that matter)?

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Q: Why God hides himself?
A: I don't know. But it's part of his plan, many are really curious about this. But in my opinion, read this: Let's say I'm God (for example). I created you all, and then many of you don't believe in me. I'm kind of angry, and I see you guys turn evil very slowly, but in heaven 1000 years in Earth if a day in heaven, so I see you guys change a lot. But all of you wanted to see me, I refuse because that is not in my plan. It will waste my time, I don't have the time to do something so pathetic. (Sorry if I offend you  :( )
No time to do something so pathetic? Do you realize that you are disassembling your whole God with that sentence?

Is God not omnipotent? If he is, then how can anything waste his time? It's not possible.

Is God not all-loving? If he is, then how can saving his beloved creation be wasting his time?


And let's not forget about God's plan. If God has a plan, then me being an atheist (and subsequently going to hell for that) IS part of God's plan. In that case I was made by God to go to hell.
(The bible actually confirms that. God has determined your eternal traveling destination long before you were even born. He makes some people just so he can send them to hell.)


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Q: Why do you believe in God?
A: 1: I don't want to go to Hell. 2: Just to be safe. 3: I just do. 4: It's my life. 5: He cheers me up.
If God cheers you up, you obviously have not read the OT.

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Q: (by someone who asked me a question in my intro thread) How do I know my particular version of religion is the OneTrueChristian?
A: The bible brings true christians. Edited Bibles are not. If you are a Christian, you may want to read The New Testament to know Jesus' teachings well, in my deep honest opinion. You can skip the old testament, which is old.... And a testament... And is old...
That made me chuckle actually.

Yes, the bible brings forth True ChristiansTm. That's what every single one of the 38000 different Christian denominations say about their members while claiming the other 37999 denominations are not True ChristiansTm.

Besides, it may come as a surprise to you, but the overwhelming majority of us has not only read the NT but also the OT. A lot of us atheists have been Christians before. And many actually tried to strengthen their declining faith by reading the bible...only to declare themselves atheists by the time they were through the book.

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I guess that's about it. Please reply and don't hate me for this!  :police:
No one is going to hate you for posting this.

Actually, if you'd like to experience how it is to be truly hated, you should try joining a Christian forum and politely say that you are an atheist. In most cases that will be your only post before you are being banned while your thread (if it's not deleted right away) fills with message from members gleefully telling you that you will be tortured forever by God.




Edit: For now I have not included the respective bible verses. It's late here and for now I just wanted to finish this post. If they are needed or Avascar wants to check it in his own bible that I'm not making things up, I will provide the bible verses in another post.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 10:26:34 PM by Asmoday »
Absilio Mundus!

I can do no wrong. For I do not know what it is.

Offline LadyLucy

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2011, 10:11:50 PM »
I found "a little helpful" in the way of knowing about what you think about your belief, deity, and the Bible.

I would post more about your FAQ, but you don't want to discuss anything about it...  :-\ Sad.


Offline xTigerx

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2011, 10:25:48 PM »
I don't think any noteworthy scientist ever said we came from monkeys.  And even if we did come from monkeys, that wouldn't mean there aren't any monkeys left.  It's a logical flaw or ignorance on your part.

I have a question for you though: where'd you get the answers for your FAQ?  Did you think about them yourself, or did they come from a different source?  They sound like rehashed common theist arguments, all of which were already shown to be flawed.
God, if you're real, show yourself.  ...still waiting...
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Offline Omen

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2011, 10:37:24 PM »
I don't think any noteworthy scientist ever said we came from monkeys.  And even if we did come from monkeys, that wouldn't mean there aren't any monkeys left.

No evolutionary mechanism requires that it does, which begs the obvious question of why does this teenager believe that it does.  Either his education failed him, he simply doesn't get it, he's lying, or someone told him differently. 
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline wright

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2011, 11:00:18 PM »
Greetings, Avascar.

Your FAQs are helpful in revealing some things about the way you think and how poorly you've been educated, assuming you're on the level and not a Poe. Otherwise they're the same unsupported assertions that many, many theists before you have made. They've been thoroughly examined and found wanting again and again on this forum.

Others have already pointed out some of the mistakes in your post; I can't really add anything there. I will advise you, if you are sincere about hanging around and genuinely engaging with the regulars here, to be clear and honest in doing so. Don't just post "something random" and expect us to respond politely. Rather, make a point or a statement and be prepared to defend it, in a way that actually advances the discussion.

You're a definite minority here, something you probably aren't used to. Be polite, respond to questions / rebuttals as fast as you reasonably can, and you may learn some useful things.

Again, welcome to the forum. As jetson already said, good luck!  ;)
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline superfly

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2011, 11:10:19 PM »

Q: Why doesn't God help us?
A: You are dead wrong. God DOES help us, just indirectly. Let's say this: A bear was peacefully eating blueberries, until 2 hunters came and is aiming at the bear with guns. You saw them, and wanted to help the bear, so you chop a tree down blocking the hunters sight and letting the bear live and run away from the hunters. It's like that, he indirectly helps us.

Actually it'd go like this:

The hunters would tease an old bald man, and biblegod would sic some bears to kill the hunters...'cause that how He roll, yo.

2Kings 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
 

Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
Kurt Vonnegut

Offline Timo

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2011, 12:22:33 AM »
Shabat Shalom, Avascar (is it Friday yet?)

I'd like to take a stab at some of those points about the Bible.  I find the stuff interesting.

Q: Who created God?
A: Good question, but no one created God, not even God himself. He is the Uncreated Creator, that's why he has no appearance

I disagree.  I think that God (Yah) is the son of god (El Shaddai).  He is the rival of Baal, the employer of ha shatan (the satan), and the ex husband of Asherah.  He rose to his station in life by valiantly defeating Leviathan, the chaos dragon, and can currently be found walking atop the firmament of heaven with his son, Josh. 

Nah, but seriously, you should read your Old Testament.  If nothing else, it's clear that the conception of God is evolving throughout the book.  And you can find little traces of the bits of Israelite tradition that the monotheists and monalatrists tried to expunge.

Q: Is the bible true?
A: I'm pretty sure it's 100% true.

There are several problems with this.  To begin with, no, the Bible is not 100 percent true.  It cannot be.  One need not even look to external evidence to find this to be the case.  The Bible contradicts itself and therefore contains statements that cannot be true.  You don't even have to get far into the Bible to find this.  Compare Genesis 1 with Genesis 2.  Right now.  Read it. 

Okay, you're back.  Do you see where I'm going with this?  You can even do this with popular Bible stories.  (Trivia question: who killed Goliath?)

Q: Why is there an old testament?
A: I skipped that part due to its history. (me dunt liek history   ) It shows on what happened in the past, and it happened before Jesus came. So basically it was created by God for Jews.

On the Christian view, Jesus is the fulfillment of the Torah, who, like Enoch and Elijah, walked with God and rose bodily into heaven and was anticipated in the prophecies of folks like my favorite prophet, the ever grumpy and sarcastic, Isaiah.  It's important.  If you want to be a Christian you need to read it.

Q: Why God doesn't show himself to us?
A: If your talking about God The Father, he doesn't have an appearance. If your talking about Jesus, its because it's not in his plan, or some other reason that doesn't waste his time (sorry if i offend you

Wrong again bro.  Your Bible teaches that we atheists are simply fools: "The fool hath said in his heart there is no God" (Psalm 14:1).  It is said in the Bible that God has written his law on our hearts (Rom. 2:14-15) and that the heavens declare His glory (Psalm 19: 1).  Your answer is supposed to be that we're ignoring the evidence.  Read your Bible.

And again, you need to read that old Hebrew Bible.  God does indeed appear to people bodily.  In Genesis 18:1-15, we find old Yahweh stopping by Abraham's tent with the news that Sarah will bear him a son in her old age.

Q: Is Jesus really the son of God?
A: Yes, he said that A MILLION TIMES (expression). He did miracles, but are they true? Look to the next question!

The kings of Judah were also called sons of God.  I don't know that "son of God" necessarily means what you think it means.  Hell, I don't think "God" always means what you think it means.  In Psalm 82, Yah takes His seat at the divine council and rebukes the gods.  Do you believe that there is more than one god?  Incidentally, the Hebrew word Elohim, which means "God" is the same in whether in the singular or plural form, which I think should raise the question of whether the phrase "let us create man in our own image" should be taken as a group speaking or as a douchy god speaking in the royal we. 

What do you think?  I think that the theological question is trickier than mainstream Christians like to admit.

Q: Why is there evil in the world?
A: Ahhh, something so I can really express my opinion to others! The Devil (Satan) does not bring evil to the world, but us.
Once, Adam and Eve had a peaceful life, everything was perfect, they also did not eat meat (it explains how Adam died in in the age of 821 or something). But, they ate the fruit of the Knowledge, which gave us a taste of what is good and bad. They only ate a bite, not a whole, so this bite from Adam and Eve... Changed our world, forever.  God then punished them, then their children sinned, and their grandchildren sinned, and so on. BUT, some people did not sin (Noah, for example). We cause evil, because we cause sins to others. For example; We steal, the one who got stolen does revenge; Someone murders, someone avenges the one who got murdered by killing; Someone died, someone goes nuts.

Vegetarianism doesn't explain an 800 year lifespan.  That's not even Biblical.  The limitation of our lifespans to about 130 years is part of God's new plan for humanity following the flood.

And Noah?  Noah was a booze soaked ass who cursed some of his own descendants to be slaves because one of his sons happened to see his junk after he passed out naked in his tent.  This is the best we had to offer?  Perhaps Noah was a good guy who was just acting out because all of his friends had just been killed.  That's understandable.  But I think God is just a bad judge of character.  Lot was apparently the most upright man in Sodom and, well....you should read the story.

Q: Why did the flood occured during Noah's time?
A: Noah was the only good person (literally) in the whole world. God The Father wanted to wipe out all the humans except Noah and his family and animals. Why did God did this? Imagine your friend kicking you and stealing your stuff, and the murdering you in a night. Scary huh? Yeah, they were that bad. So God told Noah to make an ark and gather all the animals and stuff.

The problem with arguing by analogy is that, often times, the analogy doesn't hold.  If God knows everything then He would have known that His creatures would sin against Him.  If God is self sufficient, He didn't need to create us, sinful or otherwise.  He therefore has no right to be offended.  This is in no way analogous to people hurting each other.

Even if the situation were analogous, could you explain why God killed the kids and the animals?  (Also, more Bible trivia: how many of each animal did God take on the ark?)

That's it for now.  Anyway, I hope you read this.  And I hope you read your Bible.


Peace
Nah son...

Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: To All Atheists Out There
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2011, 12:28:15 AM »
This might not go as well as you are hoping.  Be strong, and remain calm.  Oh, and good luck!

Yeah I will, :) Thanks

Although, I'm not surprised that haters will reply in a forum  :-\
not haters just rational people.....unlike believers
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)