Author Topic: I'm taking pascal's wager  (Read 5984 times)

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Offline velkyn

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2011, 02:11:20 PM »
I'm a big sf geek and go to cons where I can see little fellows like that  :)
another musician?  we have enough here to form a WWGHA band  :)
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Offline commie_atheist

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2011, 02:24:14 PM »
I'm a big sf geek and go to cons where I can see little fellows like that  :)
another musician?  we have enough here to form a WWGHA band  :)

i am a percussionist, maybe one day i will post a picture of my Neil Peart wanna be drum set.   i play in a few metal bands, and someone is now trying to get me to play some kind of texas country rock.  i can't remember the genre for the life of me.  not really my kind of music though.   i have to admit though when i went to watch them play, and there were was some serious talent out in the crowd.  enough to maybe make me think about to play it.  i just tend struggle with anything under 75 bpm, just to slow i get bored and start letting my mind roam instead of keeping the pulse.  when a drummer start to think while playing, there will be trouble. 
please forgive my typos, i suck at written English.

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Offline voodoo child

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2011, 02:29:36 PM »
GG, you have been around these forums as long as I have. I always thought of you as a nice person.

No one can teach you to love, only you can, it comes with experience..
Maybe you are looking for attention or external validation. You will not get it from here, only you know the answer.

Your mother told you of a god.  Before, she told you of a god, you had no knowledge of a god, its as simple as that. Humans make shit up all the time.. Maybe its something we do.. maybe to make ourselves feel better or just to fit into the slot that most people would like us to fit into, almost as a self defence mechanism, no one wants to be hated, am I right?

No one wants to be perceived as being evil am I right? 

I used to think about all kinds of crazy shit growing up.. I figured if there was a god he hated my ass big time, but really I was just a victim of circumstance nothing more nothing less. When I had those thoughts I was in foster homes, group homes, government institutions and I was very young.

Those institutions, those certain "people" told me of a god and how much it would help me, love me, save me, etc..

Of course they were no help at all.. I could not hear this god they spoke of, I felt as if I were strange or defective, or worse, that Satan guy.  &) From the age of 9 till 16 I faked it, and hated them for it, hated them for making me feel inadequate, and quite ridicules.  But it was not me. I did nothing wrong. I was just being rational by default and it took a long time for me to figure that out on my own.

I sincerely hope you do as well.

 If there is a god why would it criticize anyone for not even knowing of it.

Do dolphins go to hell because they have sex for pleasure and not necessarily for procreation? 

Makes no sense what's so ever.
       
What is god?   something that humans made up, because they did not understand the world around them.

Who is god?   something that humans made up, because humans had trouble understanding the complex emotions that evolve within us.

What is a soul?   :o A word, an emotion, usually when playing music or having great sex.
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline LadyLucy

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2011, 02:41:01 PM »
i am a percussionist, maybe one day i will post a picture of my Neil Peart wanna be drum set.   i play in a few metal bands, and someone is now trying to get me to play some kind of texas country rock.  i can't remember the genre for the life of me.  not really my kind of music though.   i have to admit though when i went to watch them play, and there were was some serious talent out in the crowd.  enough to maybe make me think about to play it.  i just tend struggle with anything under 75 bpm, just to slow i get bored and start letting my mind roam instead of keeping the pulse.  when a drummer start to think while playing, there will be trouble.

[off-topic] Metal is Passion and Awesome. I can imagine anyone getting a little bored at 75 BPM.

8)

Although, there are plenty of good songs out there that are slow. Plus, I have a intricate taste in a dying music genre (Romantic and Classical period music; Contemporary and Jazz, however, is nice as well). [/off-topic]

If there is a god why would it criticize anyone for not even knowing of it.

Do dolphins go to hell because they have sex for pleasure and not necessarily for procreation? 

Makes no sense what's so ever.
       
What is god?   something that humans made up, because they did not understand the world around them.

Who is god?   something that humans made up, because humans had trouble understanding the complex emotions that evolve within us.

What is a soul?   :o A word, an emotion, usually when playing music or having great sex.

Simply well-said.  ;)


Offline commie_atheist

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2011, 02:52:40 PM »
i do love jazz, allot!  but i fail as a jazz drummer.  when to drop and add notes, i just really struggle with it.  i love classical music as well.  the piano is one the best percussion instrument ever created, might even be the best.  but i am biased toward a full drum kit.
please forgive my typos, i suck at written English.

 atheist extremist communist extraordinaire!

Offline voodoo child

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2011, 02:57:36 PM »
thanks lady  ;)
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2011, 03:24:05 PM »
Got distracted when someone mentioned Neil Peart. When Phil Collins, Ringo Starr and Don Henley go to drummer heaven, Neil will decide whether they get in or not. (Probably not.) Because he is god! 8)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline GamerGirl

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2011, 03:42:57 PM »
Self Portrayal as God.  Autotheists do this, they see themselves as the Gods of their own worldviews... and react to the experiences accordingly. 

My God is human, I enjoy language arts and literature.  Humans created their belief systems, I'll not perpetuate the delusion into the future because of a mistake of an imaginary friend. 

Offline commie_atheist

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2011, 03:46:24 PM »
Got distracted when someone mentioned Neil Peart. When Phil Collins, Ringo Starr and Don Henley go to drummer heaven, Neil will decide whether they get in or not. (Probably not.) Because he is god! 8)

lol i agree whole heartedly
please forgive my typos, i suck at written English.

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Offline GamerGirl

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2011, 06:18:10 PM »
That cursed letter P! I keep confusing that acronym's meaning.  There's a difference between a born Christian and an unborn Christian.  I'm done feeling like I have to justify another person's foolishness simply because they say so, because they found this answer in the bible, where their belief originated from, and from there... learned nothing meaningful.

I'm agnostic in my theism, and apathetic towards world views that try to conform my own.  So, I play school girl games, with language, because esoteric ambiguities seem to incite the most rage among people caught debating rhetorical questions. 

Life's short, play naked! ;) I'll stop stirring up unnecessary drama by avoiding using personal attacks.  However, I am thirsty for fundamental blood.  Their Elysian ways have been rendered to Dionysus; it's time they realize that conforming an old standard to a modern culture will not work without genocide.  Their delusional self perpetuating foolishness has created a crossroads in my life that I cannot seem to reconcile. 

Troll softly, forum members, I'm done being silly.
Lillium

Offline xTigerx

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2011, 06:19:16 PM »
GG's posts have always been vague and in some cases an attempt at poetry.  Well, not always.  When she first joined, you could have a decent discussion with her.  Somewhere along the line, that changed.

Personally, I think she's trying to be some sort of naturalistic Christian.  She's taking away all the supernatural elements of Christianity (or at least attempting to) in order to make it more presentable to an atheist audience, while not having the social stigma that the title "atheist" brings.  I think it's very obvious in her most recent post:

My God is human, I enjoy language arts and literature.  Humans created their belief systems, I'll not perpetuate the delusion into the future because of a mistake of an imaginary friend.
God, if you're real, show yourself.  ...still waiting...
...

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Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2011, 08:39:59 PM »
Got distracted when someone mentioned Neil Peart. When Phil Collins, Ringo Starr and Don Henley go to drummer heaven, Neil will decide whether they get in or not. (Probably not.) Because he is god! 8)

I don't like to pick absolute favorites anymore, but when I used to have a favorite drummer, it was Neil Peart. He would definitely let Phil Collins in. That "No Reply At All" drum work is off the hook. Still falls short of "By-Tor & the Snow Dog", though.

I don't play drums. I play guitar, but a good drummer makes it all that much better!
Enough with your bullshit.
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Offline GamerGirl

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2011, 10:10:27 PM »
GG's posts have always been vague and in some cases an attempt at poetry.  Well, not always.  When she first joined, you could have a decent discussion with her.  Somewhere along the line, that changed.

It changed when I retreated back to reflect.  However...

What's wrong with exploring all forms of theism before finally deciding a way of life?  I test my theism on smaller forums than this one, because I have better things to attend to than a large forum community.  When feeling brave, I tempt God a little, hoping he'll tell me... but.... Hear nothing.   I'm taking pascal's wager until I find that answer myself.  In the mean time, I do want to debate here, I just don't have time to keep up with so many threads. 

Until I'm fully ready to give a strong yes or no answer to this forum question, I'll test my thoughts elsewhere. 

WWGHA? I don't know! But, I'm willing to find out for myself. 

Offline xphobe

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2011, 11:05:35 PM »
So, GG, since you're taking Pascal's Wager, which God have you decided to try believing in?  Remember, some of them are Jealous Gods, and therefore mutually exclusive.  And some of them can see right through a poser who's only in it to hedge their bets.

Or do you create your own SPAG, breathe divine life into it, and then place your bet on that most familiar and comfortable god?
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline Zankuu

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2011, 11:06:04 PM »
What's wrong with exploring all forms of theism before finally deciding a way of life?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. During my deconversion from Christianity I stopped off at deism, pantheism, panentheism, etc. Which is what I'm assuming you mean from 'forms'. But are you really doing this? Instead it looks like you're just dressing up Yahweh with your brand of morality, discarding his personality flaws you don't find appealing, and dropping his ancient Mesopotamian background. That's fine GG, but your personal version of the Christian god isn't any closer to reality - which is the problem with self projecting.

I'm taking pascal's wager until I find that answer myself.

Pascal's wager is not a safe bet by any means. You know why, right? Plus it was created around the assumption that the Christian god is the One True God, which you seem to understand doesn't exist.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline GamerGirl

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2011, 11:11:25 PM »
I'm trying to undo my parent's SPAG to make sure it ends with me.  That way, my son can choose his own fate, so he won't have to suffer the pains of indoctrination.

That's why...

I'll always believe in God.  Not for my sake, for my child's and for my mother's--to undo the mistakes of earthly fathers who dedicated their lives to that of a heavenly father.  This life does not need more gods, it needs more mothers.

Offline jetson

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2011, 06:23:18 AM »
At this point, I fear your son will not be getting a fair shot at all.  I sincerely hope you find a way to let him discover the world without giving him the disadvantage of some truth that you find appealing, but is lacking in honesty.

Offline GamerGirl

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2011, 12:26:12 PM »
At this point, I fear your son will not be getting a fair shot at all.  I sincerely hope you find a way to let him discover the world without giving him the disadvantage of some truth that you find appealing, but is lacking in honesty.

I'm not going to answer the question for my children.  When they ask me who God is, I'm going to tell them that he's like Santa Clause.  When they figure out that Santa is not real, they'll easily be able to logically follow the point I'm trying to make.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2011, 05:42:27 PM »
I'm not going to answer the question for my children.  When they ask me who God is, I'm going to tell them that he's like Santa Clause.  When they figure out that Santa is not real, they'll easily be able to logically follow the point I'm trying to make.

Good to hear that. But you just said...

I'm trying to undo my parent's SPAG to make sure it ends with me.  That way, my son can choose his own fate, so he won't have to suffer the pains of indoctrination.

That's why...

I'll always believe in God.

This is a non sequitur because of the disconnect between your premise and the conclusion. If you take the drama out of that quote then all you basically said was:

I'm trying to unbrainwash myself so my son won't be brainwashed, therefore I'll always believe in God. <-- that doesn't make sense.

And your second quote contradicts your first. You're very hard to follow GG.

EDIT: GG, I just noticed you didn't answer my question on recognizing the fallacious nature of Pascal's wager. Care to take a stab at it?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 06:02:45 PM by Zankuu »
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline velkyn

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2011, 08:29:35 AM »
I'm always curious about someone who thinks any god worth the title is stupid enough to accept someone who "takes" Pascal's wager.
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Offline OnePerson

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2011, 08:41:21 AM »
Tip: Don't use the same word for 50 different definitions and then use them all interchangeably.

And when communicating with others, don't try to be philosophical.  Be simple and make sure people can actually understand what you're trying to say.

Offline Turbo SS

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2011, 05:57:38 PM »
I don't remember being an atheist, I do remember doubting God, becoming a rededicated Christian, and then hating religion.  I can't do this to another person.  I'm a dishonest Christian, because I'm not creating spirit babies, raising them to believe they're someone aside from themselves.  I've denied myself the Christian title and instead enjoy its mythology.

But... I want to try and figure out how to explain this to my son... I don't want to violate his soul by defining it for him, I want him to discover himself as he grows and learns to think for himself.

I was a born again christian as well so I understand when you say its hard to let go.  I had that nagging in the back of my head that said what if i am wrong now and there really is God.  Will I lose my salvation or what happens?  Eventually,  I just became so convinced he didnt exist I stopped worrying about it altogether.

Offline gaiawrath

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2011, 06:35:04 PM »
Life force does not exist as a 'force', it is something that bronze age intellectuals made up. Thus, there is no 'soul'.

Unfortunately, way too many Sci-Fi writers didn't get the memo.

At least it is recognized by virtually everyone as Sci-Fi, and not mistaken for Truth.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2011, 10:50:53 AM »
I think a dose of Gnosticism will cure SPAG. In this case the demiurge is everything you want him to be, but the saviour is a weak voice, with completely arbitrary rules, such as : Know the interpretation of these mysteries, and you shall have life (1) keep your feet wet with 124.2, (2) ignore rule 2, (3) travel on trains, (4) spit not the hamster, for the servant is 7.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline xphobe

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2011, 10:57:19 AM »
(4) spit not the hamster, for the servant is 7.

Aw crap.  I wish I had read that a week ago.  Now I'm hosed.
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline Phenix

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I'm not taking pascal's wager.
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2011, 09:59:33 AM »
Okay, I'll bite.

If you want a useful wager, try this.

Do you keep using tools over and over that prove to have no value? That's the definition of insanity. Whatever god notion you have is not working for you as a useful tool. If it was working, you wouldn't be here. How long do you plan to hold onto it?

Your son is watching you. He is watching you do the same thing again and again hoping for different results. What lesson are you teaching him?

Here's your wager. If this god notion is making you nuts, what are the odds that any of it, however articulated, will help your son?

What are the odds that a little intellectual honesty will help your son? Even the bible says the truth shall set you free.

GG, only you can stop this madness. Remember what they tell you on airplanes. Put your own oxygen mask first, before trying to help others.
Science is a verb.

Offline velkyn

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2011, 07:27:31 PM »
very nice reference to the air masks, phenix. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline GamerGirl

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2011, 04:53:27 AM »
Note:

I have thoroughly embarrassed myself.  I have bipolar disorder, when I created this topic, and began writing the other posts, I wrote them during a bout of sleep deprivation.  That day I had a panic attack... I went to the mental hospital on April fool's day, I stayed there for 8 days.  At the time, I felt on top of the world, and that I knew that God was worth believing in--even though I knew there's no proof. 

During that time, I wrote hurtful messages that I wouldn't have otherwise written.  I'm so damn foolish, and sorry to those whom I offended. 

Anyway... In the hospital, I thought for the first time, "God does not exist."

On April 1st... God became a huge part of my delusional breakdown.  I literally thought God was trying to sending me signs about the future.  Commercials, games, music, the posts here... I'm talking crazy, crazy... Like, my sister's first born child would one day try to kill my son, that I was the reincarnation of Eve... that Oprah would become the pope, that Obama would kill Osama (in my mind at the time, I mistakenly "knew" they were secretly related) before the 2012 election and then get killed by Arnold Swarzenager (I don't care that I spelled his name incorrectly). 

But, if I sang and danced as prayer, then God would spare my son from harm, and my family would be saved.... I began singing, and dancing, laughing... it felt like a huge game, and I was trying to prevent the end of the world.  At one point, I thought I had died and went to hell... I was gone....

I started speaking in foreign languages, Mandarin, Japanese, Latin, Spanish... reciting lines from the Canterbury Tales... Reciting Shakespeare, begging to find a girl named "Thulia", so my future daughter, Remilia would not die... all a bunch of... delusional God-driven bullshit.

When I came down from that bout of insanity, I began thinking about the bible authors/"prophets" and how they got their messages from God.  Revelations seems to have been written by a lunatic.  The televangelist miracle prophets are a bunch of manipulative , grandiose creatures who capitalize on others' stupidity.  And that's when I thought it.... God does not exist.

At this point, I really don't care if God exists. 

I'm not taking Pascal's Wager, I'm saying goodbye to God and allowing time to answer the 'Does god exist?' question for me.

Sorry for wasting WWGHA's time... I think it's best I stay moderated.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: I'm taking pascal's wager
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2011, 06:27:05 AM »
GG, I don't really care if you believe in a god or not. I care much more about your mental health, and I'm glad that you're doing better. Welcome back, GG.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos