Author Topic: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.  (Read 31393 times)

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Online rev45

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #522 on: May 11, 2011, 09:20:11 PM »
Looks like someone forgot to take their medicine tonight or their mom and dad forgot to turn their internet off and now jr is roaming free on the interwebs. 
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Offline blue

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #523 on: May 11, 2011, 09:24:25 PM »
Can't you come up with some variety in your trolling? This is the same boring stuff you've been doing for years DM. You've become...generic.
There’s no difference between a bunch of theologians sitting around debating scripture than a bunch of D&D nerds sitting around debating which version of the Player’s Handbook to use.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #524 on: May 11, 2011, 09:28:11 PM »
Needless to say I have removed Vmabus2's posts for their usual mindless hatred and bigotry.

Also because maybe he'll decide to for once become a worthwhile human being for a change if it happens enough times.

Edit:What a petty little child. I think his mommy didn't give him enough hugs or something.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Online rev45

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #525 on: May 11, 2011, 09:33:56 PM »
This reminds me of the mailbag email that talked about cutting our throats and letting the crimson blood run out. 
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Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #526 on: May 11, 2011, 09:35:26 PM »
Vmabus2, bleed me? Please. You're too much of a coward to even say something like that to my face. If you're going to make death threats against someone:

1) At least make them original. Listening to the unimaginative bores me.

2)Don't try to pretend that you are tough or threatening when you're squatting like a coward from a safe position.

3)Actually make it something that you can back up. If you said that you were going to slightly inconvenience me, that I might believe. Or if you were going to be a minor annoyance maybe. But that's about as far as I would believe coming from you.

This reminds me of the mailbag email that talked about cutting our throats and letting the crimson blood run out. 

Whatever. Either way it's just another day, another death threat from a theist, ho hum.

we're actually cutting throats.. not talking about it

And this is why you're nothing but a laughable loser. I live in Edmonton, Alberta. If you want the actual address just PM me and feel free to come by and give it a shot.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 09:51:20 PM by Alzael »
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline vmabus2

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #527 on: May 11, 2011, 09:38:35 PM »
Alzael - you're a little child who knows nothing about the REAL WORLD....

Offline jetson

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #528 on: May 11, 2011, 09:40:03 PM »
Alzael - you're a little child who knows nothing about the REAL WORLD....

Dear Pony, please give me a hammer.  I do not hesitate at all.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #529 on: May 11, 2011, 09:40:24 PM »
Alzael - you're a little child who knows nothing about the REAL WORLD....

This, of course, is being said by the guy sitting behind his computer screen at home making religious death threats to a bunch of people he's never met on the internet.

For some reason I don't take that statement, seriously. I can't imagine why.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #530 on: May 11, 2011, 09:43:23 PM »
alzael - we're going to have mercy on you because you are an ignorant fool... now leave this place or we are going to beat the fuck out of you....

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

So much for my invitation to come to my home.

Oh no, please forgive me, whatever shall I do?

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm guessing that the sudden noise I'm hearing is your testicles retreating up into your nether regions?

« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 09:45:13 PM by Alzael »
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #531 on: May 11, 2011, 09:52:58 PM »
I'm starting to think that I should keep a scrapbook of all of the death threats I get from theists. Something to remember them by.

I think I counted about eight times that I removed his posts. What a tool.

"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline jetson

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #532 on: May 11, 2011, 09:54:27 PM »
How do you spell scalawag?

Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #533 on: May 11, 2011, 09:58:42 PM »
How do you spell scalawag?

Just like that.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline jetson

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #534 on: May 11, 2011, 10:02:07 PM »
BTW, Alzael, you never told us you were a little child.  ;D

Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #535 on: May 11, 2011, 10:04:56 PM »
Alzael, thanks for your response. Like I said, I was asking a question. Admittedly, I am a newby and cannot be rash and rush to any conclusions. You have to concede it can get difficult if there is not some patience and tolerance on both sides. I don't want some religious nutbag coming on here and telling you that they think you're evil and going to evil or acting like a douche. Similarly, I don't want to come on here and have 25 people (embellishment obviously) calling me a "liar" (as one person did) or "ignorant and not reading the Bible" (which is tacky and not fruitful) or taking my quotes and going crazy with the conclusions and the like.
Most of my really good friends are either agnostic or atheist. Some of them I have incredible conversations with about lots of things but there are a few that it's just not possible to talk about religion.
If you want to ask me questions about what I believe, and I can only speak for myself, I want to answer those questions but I also have questions as well. I will be honest. I have nothing to hide. I grew up in a loving home and was taught Christianity and I got a History degree with a Philosophy minor so at some point, things didn't make a lot of sense. But I came back to my faith through a number of factors and I cannot shy away from what I find.
I love my life and I hope everyone on here has an awesome life.

Let me point something out to you, lander. This is a discussion forum. That is it's purpose more-so than just being an atheist hang-out. Here's the thing though, the only thing that most of the posters care here is the strength of your arguments. This has nothing to do with you being a theist. It is something that everyone is held to. This is why the forum rules themselves declare that ideas must be supported with evidence and assertions backed up. The claims that you make will be scrutinized accordingly, just as we analyze the claims of our fellow atheists as well. They will also be treated accordingly. As a person you'll generally be shown the same respect and tolerance that you demonstrate as well. However your ideas will be looked at and, if found wanting, will be criticized. Because ideas should never be respected if they don't deserve it. Again, I want to make this clear, this is what happens with everyone on this forum. It is not because you happen to a theist, it's because you're on a forum designed for discussing and analyzing ideas. If you look around at the threads you'll see that we go through this amongst ourselves without theists around as well. I've had my ideas battered as well when they were bad.

As for answering all the posts, I would recommend that you don't. You're not expected to jump through a hoop and respond to every single point. However responding to the salient points would be appreciated. If you need time to get back to the poster you can always ask, were good about that. Just tell that person you have too much to deal with but you'll get to them. There are also debate rooms if you want to limit it to a one on one discussion with someone.

And if you have questions, like you said you did, you can always start your own thread and ask them of us. There are a lot of knowledgeable people here who could answer you.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #536 on: May 11, 2011, 10:06:22 PM »
BTW, Alzael, you never told us you were a little child.  ;D

I imagine it's wishful thinking on his part. It's probably his inner priest talking.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #537 on: May 11, 2011, 10:10:41 PM »

Okay, if you want to explain that there was at some point that nothing was here and that somehow something came from nothing, I am all ears (ahem...all eyes in this instance). What was originally here?

No one knows. However that does not invalidate the possibility of the postion, although you have it slightly wrong. Technically it's unlikely that there is such a thing as "nothing" (though it's not impossible). What we would call 'nothing' isn't really, and within that nothing we do know that there are particles which pop into existence at random and from nowhere.

I would point out though, that your own position is closer to a 'something coming from nothing' paradigm.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #538 on: May 11, 2011, 10:21:40 PM »
Heb 12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

You said you met the author of the bible, not the faith String.  Jesus is not the author of the bible.  There isn't a single word in the bible written by Jesus.  He may be the mythological basis for your faith, but he is not the author of the bible.  To say Jesus is the author of your faith is a word game that insinuates he wrote the bible, but historians (including Christian historians) will tell you this is false.  Now, if you want to say something like "it's all context! Of course he didn't write it, he was the holy spirit within the authors!", then I will say you are playing word games and I will say "no, YOU have the context wrong.  Jesus meant he is the author and FINISHER", meaning the faith was supposed to be finished with him!" 

Jesus (if he existed) was an apocalpytic Jewish preacher, through and through.  He didn't author faith; he followed the Jewish traditions.  Future followers ran with some teachings that were attributed to the long dead Jesus, and formed their own new religion around his "story".  He authored nothing.  If he even existed at all, then in all likelyhood, he couldn't read or write to begin with. 


Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Online Dante

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #539 on: May 12, 2011, 07:13:04 AM »
I would love to see the data of said lab experiments, which is not to be flippant or dismissive about your point (I mean I really would like to see the data out of my own desire to see it and study it, etc).

Sorry for the lengthy delay.

http://www.mowatresearch.co.uk/uploaded_documents/Benson.pdf
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline plethora

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #540 on: May 12, 2011, 07:22:51 AM »
^^^ bookmarking that source

Allow me to highlight the result of the above scientific study:

Quote from: http://www.mowatresearch.co.uk/uploaded_documents/Benson.pdf
Our study had 2 main findings. First, intercessory prayer itself had no effect on whether complications occurred after CABG. Second, patients who were certain that intercessors would pray for them had a higher rate of complications than patients who were uncertain but did receive intercessory prayer.

Look like Lander got served ...

Science yo'!
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Online Dante

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #541 on: May 12, 2011, 08:44:17 AM »
Quote from: http://www.mowatresearch.co.uk/uploaded_documents/Benson.pdf
Second, patients who were certain that intercessors would pray for them had a higher rate of complications than patients who were uncertain but did receive intercessory prayer.

This part interests me greatly. Was it a reverse placebo effect?

The mind can do some amazing things, whether we want it to or not.




Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #542 on: May 12, 2011, 10:40:57 AM »
Quote from: http://www.mowatresearch.co.uk/uploaded_documents/Benson.pdf
Second, patients who were certain that intercessors would pray for them had a higher rate of complications than patients who were uncertain but did receive intercessory prayer.

This part interests me greatly. Was it a reverse placebo effect?

The mind can do some amazing things, whether we want it to or not.

Possibly related anecdote: as I was being wheeled in to get major surgery, a nurse said to me, in a very sad voice,  "God bless you." I started wondering why she thought I needed her god's blessing. I started to freak out. What did she know? Was my condition worse than I thought? Was the surgeon knocking back martinis in the break room? What? What?

I was fine before she had said that and then I was tense and unnerved. That nurse's "blessing" could have contributed to my surgery having a worse outcome than otherwise. And I am not even religious. It might be even more significant if the patient really thought that god was needed to help survive the surgery.  :-\
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline String1248

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #543 on: May 12, 2011, 11:01:02 AM »
They say Jesus is the author, yet Jesus himself never said that he wrote on that book. It is all hear-say, and so is God's word. The Bible is the Word of God, according to the people who wrote it. Never has God said in the book, "Yes, I wrote all this, and so did my son."
I never said that Jesus or God wrote anything, I never claimed all of the writters of the Sciptures are all know, though many of them are. The Bible says Jesus is the Author of our faith. I believe one can have dictation written down and still be the author. He told the disciple John to write down His words in the book of Revelation. God gave Moses instructions for the Israelite to follow and that Moses recorded them.
 
The Bible states in 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You claim God's Word is all hear say and of course you can prove that statement. This no proof of anything but I find it interesting that three-quarters of Americans believe the Bible is literally the word of God or inspired by the word of God, according to a trio of Gallup surveys, with only 19 percent saying the Good Book is a compendium of myth and legend. I think I'll stick with the three-quarters .
 

Offline plethora

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #544 on: May 12, 2011, 11:06:45 AM »
This no proof of anything but I find it interesting that three-quarters of Americans believe the Bible is literally the word of God or inspired by the word of God, according to a trio of Gallup surveys, with only 19 percent saying the Good Book is a compendium of myth and legend. I think I'll stick with the three-quarters .

How many people believe in something is irrelevant. That's fallacy is called the argumentum ad populum.

Besides, your argument fails because two thirds of the planet do not believe in Jesus or the god of Christianity.

... or did you think the world was just the US?
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Online Dante

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #545 on: May 12, 2011, 11:15:25 AM »
You claim God's Word is all hear say and of course you can prove that statement. This no proof of anything but I find it interesting that three-quarters of Americans believe the Bible is literally the word of God or inspired by the word of God, according to a trio of Gallup surveys, with only 19 percent saying the Good Book is a compendium of myth and legend. I think I'll stick with the three-quarters .

I'll tell you the same thing I told lander.

Do you not realize that just a few hundred years ago, you would have believed the earth was flat? And that the Sun orbited the earth? Or that demons caused illness, and that bleeding someone was the way to cure disease? Do any of those sound reasonable to you?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #546 on: May 12, 2011, 11:31:30 AM »
He told the disciple John to write down His words in the book of Revelation.

You mean he copied texts from Zoroastrianism, said they were his and told John to write them down. You do realize that all of Revelations is a copy of religious texts from a much, much older religion right? Along with most of Christianity and Jeudaism.

No, of course you don't. Why would you ever pay attention to history, facts, and knowledge?

The Bible states in 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The book that says that it was written by god, was written by god because it says that it was written by god............I'm just going to take a minute and allow everyone here to fully appreciate the utter stupidity of this..............................................................ok, is everyone done?

This no proof of anything but I find it interesting that three-quarters of Americans believe the Bible is literally the word of God or inspired by the word of God, according to a trio of Gallup surveys, with only 19 percent saying the Good Book is a compendium of myth and legend. I think I'll stick with the three-quarters .
 

If you want to go that route, only about three thirds of the world population believe in your god. This isn't even counting the many billions of people who lived before two thousand years ago that didn't worship your god before the bible was ever written. So even using your own logic you come out looking ridiculous. This should seriously be teaching you something.

"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline String1248

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #547 on: May 12, 2011, 12:32:28 PM »
Do you not realize that just a few hundred years ago, you would have believed the earth was flat? And that the Sun orbited the earth? Or that demons caused illness, and that bleeding someone was the way to cure disease? Do any of those sound reasonable to you?
Just waiting for that atheist card to be pulled. I haven't heard it thousands of times but I've heard it a lot. I would have never believed that about bleeding people because the Bible says that life is in the blood. Never would have believed a flat earth because It talks about the circle of the earth. And all of that has been proven false, except for the demons. Can you prove that the bible is a bunch of myths?
 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:48:40 PM by String1248 »

Offline Persephone

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #548 on: May 12, 2011, 12:36:15 PM »
Can you prove that the bible is a bunch of myths?
We are not required to prove anything. You are making the positive claim--that a book started by people for whom the wheelbarrow was emergent technology--has facts and truths about reality.

We make no claims at all.

The burden of proof is on you.
Sheldon: Ever since you started having regular intercourse your mind has lost its edge. You should reflect on that.
Leonard: Well, Einstein had a busy sex life.
Sheldon: Yes, but he never unified gravity with the other forces. If he hadn't been such a hounddog we'd all have time machines.

Online Dante

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #549 on: May 12, 2011, 12:43:55 PM »
Do you not realize that just a few hundred years ago, you would have believed the earth was flat? And that the Sun orbited the earth? Or that demons caused illness, and that bleeding someone was the way to cure disease? Do any of those sound reasonable to you?
Just waiting for that atheist card to be pulled. I haven't heard it thousands of times but I've heard it a lot. And all of that has been proven false, except for the demons. Can you prove that the bible is a bunch of myths?


What's an atheist card? I simply showed you that an argument from popularity is not necessarily a good one.

Can you prove that the bible is not a bunch of myths? Can you prove I dont have an invisible giant pink unicorn in my closet? Can you prove that you can think clearly?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Answer to why God won't heal amputees.
« Reply #550 on: May 12, 2011, 12:45:09 PM »

The Bible states in 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God breathed.... blah blah.

The Chronicles of Narnia is inspired by God. The Bible is the very word of God, according to it. There is a difference between "inspired" and "God breathed." Unless, of course, you also believe in Aslan.

Reproof & Correction, for instruction in righteousness: Earth is Flat, Menstration and giving birth are sins, Rape is a crime of theft against the father, Houses get plagues, Pi = 3, Pigeon[1] blood cures Leprosy, Store houses for Rain and Snow. A place the Lightning dwells. Above the sun and moon, above the solid canvas that is the sky, a dome[2] with windows that allow the 'waters above' to pass thru and become rain. Magical Potion that reveals whether wife is sleeping around (Num 5).

The Ark has only be built at 1/2 scale, and even then requires Steel Bracing.

Edit: the Earth is close to a Sphere, ie. a Ball. The Earth is not a Circle, ie. A plate. Climb a high mountain or go to the top of a tall building. Turn 360 degrees. What shape is the Horizon in? A Circle. Clearly something only an "All-Knowing" God would know, eh? They also thought, if you went high enough you would see the Whole world. Again, Flat.
 1. or Dove?
 2. firmament
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 01:01:53 PM by TruthSeeker »