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Offline SOI

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Me
« on: March 16, 2011, 12:48:01 PM »
I was directed here to give my testimonial (laughs). No I am not laughing at you. I am laughing at the entire concept.


I believe in YHWH. I believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God. I believe that he is not the second head of the trinity. I believe in the destruction (by fire/non existent anymoooore) of non-believers, and not an eternal hell.

I believe that by this "admittance (laughs)" that I have opened up a pandora's box for questioning or poking holes in my beliefs. But, whatever. Lol.



On a side note. Who wins the tournament?

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Me
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 12:53:38 PM »
I was directed here to give my testimonial (laughs). No I am not laughing at you. I am laughing at the entire concept.


I believe in YHWH. I believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God. I believe that he is not the second head of the trinity. I believe in the destruction (by fire/non existent anymoooore) of non-believers, and not an eternal hell.

I believe that by this "admittance (laughs)" that I have opened up a pandora's box for questioning or poking holes in my beliefs. But, whatever. Lol.



On a side note. Who wins the tournament?


1)  Where's the testimonial?

2) Why the condensing attitude?  Isn't your Jesus all about "Judge Not..." and "Love Thy Enemy"?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline frofrodajimmyboy

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Re: Me
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 01:01:43 PM »
I was directed here to give my testimonial (laughs). No I am not laughing at you. I am laughing at the entire concept.

How is the concept funny?  Don't you think it's useful for people to understand where your viewpoint in a debate forum? 

Offline SOI

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Re: Me
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 01:06:40 PM »
I was directed here to give my testimonial (laughs). No I am not laughing at you. I am laughing at the entire concept.


I believe in YHWH. I believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God. I believe that he is not the second head of the trinity. I believe in the destruction (by fire/non existent anymoooore) of non-believers, and not an eternal hell.

I believe that by this "admittance (laughs)" that I have opened up a pandora's box for questioning or poking holes in my beliefs. But, whatever. Lol.



On a side note. Who wins the tournament?


1)  Where's the testimonial?

2) Why the condensing attitude?  Isn't your Jesus all about "Judge Not..." and "Love Thy Enemy"?



Okay, tell me what the testimonial needs to intel and I will include it.

Offline SOI

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Re: Me
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 01:08:07 PM »
I was directed here to give my testimonial (laughs). No I am not laughing at you. I am laughing at the entire concept.

How is the concept funny?  Don't you think it's useful for people to understand where your viewpoint in a debate forum?




Yes it is useful. But you guys/girls will not use it for any good. You will all use it to tear me apart.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Me
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 01:09:50 PM »
well, SOI, you are like every other Christian who has come here, with your own version of what God "really" meant.  And each of you has no more evidence than the next that your version is the right one or that your god even exists. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Me
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 01:10:56 PM »
Quote
Okay, tell me what the testimonial needs to intel and I will include it.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,15726.0.html

This section is for members to post details of the personal experiences that led them to or away from a theistic belief.


Quote
Yes it is useful. But you guys/girls will not use it for any good. You will all use it to tear me apart.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,15726.0.html

Any testimony added to this section is considered open to debate and challenge from other members.


So... talk.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Vivisectus

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Re: Me
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 01:12:50 PM »
I'm a positive Atheist. I have seen no reason to assume God exists, so I do not assume he exists.

Why do you believe what you believe?
It is a foine loine between a poirate and a farrrmer. Oi stand astroid that foine loine.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Me
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 01:20:15 PM »
Entail.

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Me
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 01:21:51 PM »
I was directed here to give my testimonial (laughs). No I am not laughing at you. I am laughing at the entire concept.

How is the concept funny?  Don't you think it's useful for people to understand where your viewpoint in a debate forum?




Yes it is useful. But you guys/girls will not use it for any good. You will all use it to tear me apart.

Yes, people make claims all the time in science. They are expected to not have those claims easily torn apart by contrary evidence. It is a way of determining the true from the false.

Look at the historical claims of "spotaneous generation" however, tests were done to show that it was false. The tests were done in a controlled fashion to make the argument of changing the opinion of thousands of people in the scientific community at the time.  One solidly constructed argument changed the opinions of thousands of people then, affecting the course of history. If someone came forth these days with the theory of "spontaneous generation" they would be verbally torn apart., unless they constructed an argument that was difficult to tear apart.

This is the way of thing when you have an audience that is interested in facts. Changes back and forth happen all the time when it comes to history when new archeological evidence is discovered.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline frofrodajimmyboy

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Re: Me
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 01:23:33 PM »
Yes it is useful. But you guys/girls will not use it for any good. You will all use it to tear me apart.



Well, it's exceedingly clear that you're insecure about your beliefs.  My question is that if you have no intention of explaining your beliefs and are entirely opposed to any form of discussion with the members here, what was the point of joining these forums?  You, by your own admission, aren't at all interested in the aim of this forum.  The only purpose you could possibly serve here is to bother everyone; is "troll until banned" your plan here?
Yes it is useful. But you guys/girls will not use it for any good. You will all use it to tear me apart.

Offline SOI

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Re: Me
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 01:24:22 PM »
I'm a positive Atheist. I have seen no reason to assume God exists, so I do not assume he exists.

Why do you believe what you believe?




I could go on about supernaturals in my life, such has clouds,the sun, and moon.

I could tell you about what I deem miracles, such has I shouldn't be alive, everything had to work perfectly for it to work out. or things are happening all the time.

But if any of you are honest, you won't believe me if I told you.

I Believed before I saw, and my Father rewarded me with the early rains.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Me
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 01:28:38 PM »
all religions claim that their particular gods created the universe.  Again, nothing new. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline SOI

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Re: Me
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 01:29:07 PM »
Yes it is useful. But you guys/girls will not use it for any good. You will all use it to tear me apart.



Well, it's exceedingly clear that you're insecure about your beliefs.  My question is that if you have no intention of explaining your beliefs and are entirely opposed to any form of discussion with the members here, what was the point of joining these forums?  You, by your own admission, aren't at all interested in the aim of this forum.  The only purpose you could possibly serve here is to bother everyone; is "troll until banned" your plan here?
Yes it is useful. But you guys/girls will not use it for any good. You will all use it to tear me apart.



So this is not the motives of your heart, to tear me apart?

What is the aim of this forum. To have evidencial proof of a God? The Israelites had God encircling (visual) them above their heads, and they would not stop sinning and believe in Him. And you think that you are not capable of murder?

Must go to work now. Check in later.


Rock Chalk



Offline frofrodajimmyboy

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Re: Me
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 01:46:49 PM »
So this is not the motives of your heart, to tear me apart?

While I will likely tear you apart for your constant attempts to sound like Shakespeare, I don't have any "motives of my heart".  I want to understand your point of view, explain mine, and, if applicable, reason why one of us may wish to alter their stance.  That's what this forum is for, and I simply wish to adhere to its purpose. 

Quote
What is the aim of this forum. To have evidencial proof of a God? The Israelites had God encircling (visual) them above their heads, and they would not stop sinning and believe in Him. And you think that you are not capable of murder?

The primary aim, as stated above by myself and others, on the main site, in the forum intro, the rules, etc is "to discuss the online material, Why Won’t God Heal Amputees? and God is Imaginary.  By extension, it is to discuss issues surrounding religion and the effect of religious beliefs on our society and culture.  It is not a venue for preaching or evangelism.  People who join for the purpose of evangelizing will quickly find they have overstayed their welcome."

Yes, evidence of God would fit that category, however, I don't see the point you're trying to make by bringing up that particular fairy tale.  When did I claim I was not capable of murder?  I believe EVERYONE is capable of murder, myself included, though I would only kill someone in the most extreme circumstances, such as self defense.  Again, what was your point? 

Online One Above All

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Re: Me
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2011, 02:10:04 PM »
I could go on about supernaturals in my life, such has clouds,the sun, and moon.

If steam, a giant ball of fire[1] and a rock are supernatural to you, you are still living in around 5000 BC

I could tell you about what I deem miracles, such has I shouldn't be alive, everything had to work perfectly for it to work out. or things are happening all the time.

Miracle: Something supernatural. Not something extremely unlikely
The odds of you being alive are the same as every other human

As a better example: Grab 1000 decks of cards. Pick a card. The odds of you picking that exact card are 1/52000. It's extremely unlikely. Is that a miracle?
 1. This is an extremely simplified version of what the sun is. It is slightly inaccurate but applies for my point
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Me
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2011, 02:23:34 PM »
I'm a positive Atheist. I have seen no reason to assume God exists, so I do not assume he exists.

Why do you believe what you believe?




I could go on about supernaturals in my life, such has clouds,the sun, and moon.



I could tell you about what I deem miracles, such has I shouldn't be alive, everything had to work perfectly for it to work out. or things are happening all the time.

But if any of you are honest, you won't believe me if I told you.

I Believed before I saw, and my Father rewarded me with the early rains.

The Sun is Natural, it is one atomic furnace amongst countelss trillions. The Moon is a chunk of rock...it is no more supernatural than Australia. Clouds are water vapor.

and that last sentence? Are you trying to sound like some 1950s movie indian?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Me
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2011, 02:26:17 PM »
Quote
The Israelites had God encircling (visual) them above their heads, and they would not stop sinning and believe in Him

Is this a documented fact, or is it just in the bible?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Me
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2011, 03:13:15 PM »
So this is not the motives of your heart, to tear me apart?

What is the aim of this forum. To have evidencial proof of a God? The Israelites had God encircling (visual) them above their heads, and they would not stop sinning and believe in Him. And you think that you are not capable of murder?

Must go to work now. Check in later.


Rock Chalk

If you're not going to post a testimonial, then what is the point of making a topic in this sub-fourm?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline xphobe

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Re: Me
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2011, 03:45:50 PM »
Rock Chalk

Oh please not a fellow alum.   :-[

Don't tell me... CCFC?
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline screwtape

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Re: Me
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2011, 04:08:19 PM »
I suggested SOI come here and give a testimonial.  His posts were cryptic and incomplete and a lot of people had to fill in the blanks when talking with him.  I thought it would be useful for him to give a more complete run down of what he believes so we would not have to make assumptions. 

SOI, you are jamming my vibe, man.  Maybe if you weren't so...cranky people would not want to tear you apart.  Quit with the negativity and stop making people drag the answers out of you.  Here are some questions which would help increase our understanding if you answered:

- do you consider yourself xian?
- if not, how would you describe your belief?
- do you subscribe to any particular denomination?
- are you a biblical literalist?
- were you raised with these beliefs or did you come to them later in life?
- if the latter, how did you come to them?
- understanding that I have been religious and then came to believe it was all a load of rubbish, explain to me why I should believe what you believe.
- how do you know your religious ideas are correct?

That is a start.  Take it and run with it.
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Offline SOI

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Re: Me
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2011, 07:30:44 PM »
Quote
- do you consider yourself xian?
Don't know what this is.
Quote
- if not, how would you describe your belief?
Unsure, I go to many churches. Trying to find more like me. That may sound arrogant. Church going folk are hypocritical. I am searching for true followers of Jesus' words.

Quote
- do you subscribe to any particular denomination?
No, but raised Catholic. Do not judge me by this, I have purged myself from Catholicism.

Quote
- are you a biblical literalist?
Yes and no, but mainly yes.
Man does not live off of bread and water alone, but every word that proceedeth out of God's mouth.
Micah 6:6-9 is closer to me.


Quote
- were you raised with these beliefs or did you come to them later in life?
See above. Continued learning as I got older (came closer to the truth).

Quote
- if the latter, how did you come to them?
Reading and obeying.

Quote
- understanding that I have been religious and then came to believe it was all a load of rubbish, explain to me why I should believe what you believe.
I did something very odd when reading the Gospels. I obeyed his words, truly from the heart. And guess what, it actually works.

Quote
- how do you know your religious ideas are correct?
One word that you all lack, Hope.

Sorry for the short answers, but I owe my family the rest of the evening.

I've fixed your quotes, SOI - please use the quote system, it makes it a lot easier to read and respond.
Thanks Graybeard:




« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 07:47:54 PM by Graybeard »

Offline LadyLucy

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Re: Me
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2011, 07:35:57 PM »
OK, that is satisfactory.

Although, the last comment was unnecessary:

Quote
- how do you know your religious ideas are correct?
One word that you all lack, Hope.

We don't lack hope.

For example, there is hope that my baby will come out perfectly OK, despite knowing that he is healthy at the moment. (Anything could go wrong, who knows? I tend to worry a little bit, just because I am human, and that's why there's hope that everything will be OK.)

What we lack is faith.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 07:42:18 PM by LadyAmorosaLuckyDulce »


Online One Above All

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Re: Me
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2011, 07:37:27 PM »
Although, the last comment was unnecessary:

I think it's condescending BS
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline enagua

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Re: Me
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2011, 07:52:38 PM »
Quote
- if not, how would you describe your belief?
Unsure, I go to many churches. Trying to find more like me. That may sound arrogant. Church going folk are hypocritical. I am searching for true followers of Jesus' words.

When I was younger I attended several Christian churches trying to understand and find "faith". As you are searching for more like yourself, for true followers of Jesus' words, what are you looking for? How do you define a true follower of Jesus?

Offline screwtape

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Re: Me
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2011, 08:02:59 PM »
Not a bad start.

Quote
- if not, how would you describe your belief?
Unsure, I go to many churches. Trying to find more like me. That may sound arrogant. Church going folk are hypocritical. I am searching for true followers of Jesus' words.

I don't find that arrogant, I find it S.O.P. for people.  We seek out our in-group.  It is particularly easy in this day and age with internet fora that conform to our niche views.  Unfortunately that can create a protective bubble around us, prevent us from being critical of our views and opinions.

No, but raised Catholic. Do not judge me by this, I have purged myself from Catholicism.

I grew up catholic too.  I also purged myself of it.  The difference is, I questioned the very fundamentals of it.  You seem to have kept some ideas and created your own.

Quote
- are you a biblical literalist?
Yes and no, but mainly yes.

How do you know what to take literally and what to take figuratively?  Do you allow women to teach you or to speak in church?

Quote
- understanding that I have been religious and then came to believe it was all a load of rubbish, explain to me why I should believe what you believe.
I did something very odd when reading the Gospels. I obeyed his words, truly from the heart. And guess what, it actually works.

That does not tell me why I should believe.  What do you mean "it works"? 

Quote
- how do you know your religious ideas are correct?
One word that you all lack, Hope.

I don't find this to be very charitable. I find this to be rather arrogant and mocking.  I also do not think it answers my question.  If it does, I need more explanation. 


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Offline Historicity

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Re: Me
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2011, 08:09:39 PM »
I believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God. I believe that he is not the second head of the trinity.
Whatever.  However.
Quote
14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
...
14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father:  for my Father is greater than I.

Offline Larissa238

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Re: Me
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2011, 08:10:48 PM »
I believe in YHWH. I believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God. I believe that he is not the second head of the trinity. I believe in the destruction (by fire/non existent anymoooore) of non-believers, and not an eternal hell.

Okay, so you have your own version of the Bible. Some things are taken literally (the trinity is not in the Bible) and yet you are still cherry-picking (hell is not eternal). There is the "lake of burning sulfur" where the devil and the false prophet (a human) are thrown, and "they will be tormented day and night, for ever and ever"- Rev 20:10- so this hell is eternal, and there is a human in it. You could argue that the "lake of fire" mentioned in Rev 20:15 is not the "lake of burning sulfur", but there is still an eternal hell, with at least one non-believer in it.

Question: Why do you believe in YHWH and not, for example, El Eljon or El Shaddai, who are other Gods of the Bible? Many Christians don't know that when the Bible says "Elohim" it's not referring to YHWH. What makes YHWH so much better than El Eljon or El Shaddai?

- do you consider yourself xian?
Don't know what this is.
- if not, how would you describe your belief?
Unsure, I go to many churches. Trying to find more like me. That may sound arrogant. Church going folk are hypocritical. I am searching for true followers of Jesus' words.
The letter "X" was first used by Christians to shorten Christ, after the Greek letter "Chi" which looks like our X. Xmas=Christmas so xian=Christian

Sounds what you are looking for is a good cult. While some here think that all churches are cults, only in a real cult will you find people so brainwashed that they are not hypocritical (where their action represent their twisted beliefs), and even then, there will still be hypocrites because there is not one true version of your Bible. Every Christian church cherry picks what they think is literal and what is figurative (as you did above with the non-eternal hell).

Quote
- do you subscribe to any particular denomination?
No, but raised Catholic. Do not judge me by this, I have purged myself from Catholicism.


- are you a biblical literalist?
Yes and no, but mainly yes.
Man does not live off of bread and water alone, but every word that proceedeth out of God's mouth.
Micah 6:6-9 is closer to me.


Micah 6:6-9 does not answer the question of biblical literalism. Micah 6:6-7 just talk about offering sacrifices, from rams to oil to your child, as a forgiveness of sin. Verse 8 tells you that you need to act justly, love mercy, and to walk humbly with God. Verse 9 has nothing to do with any of the others. Nothing about how to see if a verse is literal or not.

Quote
- were you raised with these beliefs or did you come to them later in life?
See above. Continued learning as I got older (came closer to the truth).

And what is "the truth" to you? How do you know you have the "right" interpretation of the Bible? How do you know what you think is figurative (eternal hell) and what is literal? When Jesus said that you have to hate your family to love God, *of course* he didn't mean hate, he meant ___. Except some people think it literally means "hate" since Jesus often dissed his own family (calling the believers his family, rather than his blood family) and tells people to leave their families like in Matt 8:22/Luke 9:60, Jesus tells a man whose father just died to not bury his father and comfort his family, but to leave everything and follow him. In Luke 9:62, Jesus tells a man that he can't go back to say goodbye to his family or else he is not fit "for service in the kingdom of God". So, if Jesus would rather have a man's family think he has gone missing or dead instead of the man being able to tell his family not only where he was going, but he could have told his family the "good news" of Jesus as well. Or, how in Luke 12:49-53 how Jesus says that he didn't come to bring peace, but division, pitting family members against one another.

Quote
- if the latter, how did you come to them?
Reading and obeying.

- understanding that I have been religious and then came to believe it was all a load of rubbish, explain to me why I should believe what you believe.
I did something very odd when reading the Gospels. I obeyed his words, truly from the heart. And guess what, it actually works.

I too, at one time, obeyed the Bible as close to literal as I could get, all day every day for years. I truly believed in God, everything, heart and soul. In the middle of that time, I had a mental breakdown and became severely depressed and suicidal. I even had a verse in the Bible telling me suicide was a forgivable sin (the only unforgivable sin being cursing the Holy Spirit), so I could somehow kill myself and still go to heaven. No matter how hard I tried to keep it, I lost hope. This is all while I was still a devout believer, by the way.

Quote
- how do you know your religious ideas are correct?
One word that you all lack, Hope.

1. You are assuming here. I now have hope in my life, something I have only found as a non-believer since the onset of my illness. I don't get hope from God, I get it from trying to make the best out of what I've got.

2. If hope is the only way you know your ideas are correct, I feel sorry for you. I can hope all I want that there is a fluffy pink unicorn out there just for me, but that doesn't make it correct or real. I'm a person of facts. There is no evidence for the bible out there besides itself and other propaganda. There are no remains in the desert of Moses and the people he led out of Egypt. There are no signs that a large Jewish population resided in Egypt at the time of Moses. I spoke above about the "one, true God of the Bible" and how that's a lie. There are more than one God in the Bible, they have different names given to them by the people who wrote that part of the Bible. If your book can't even agree on if there is one God or many, don't you think that would be a HUGE stumbling block for someone with faith?
On why Christians and non-Christians have the same rate of divorce:

He would rather it that they worship Him, instead of spending their time on family.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Me
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2011, 07:02:50 AM »
The letter "X" was first used by Christians to shorten Christ, after the Greek letter "Chi" which looks like our X. Xmas=Christmas so xian=Christian

Oh wow.  Thanks, Larissa.  I did not even consider the idea that he did not understand the abbreviation.  I thought he was saying he did not understand what a xian was.  As in, how does one define "xian"?

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