I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!

[SOI]

I didn't write it out, but I internally predicted that after you ignored multiple postd from me asking you direct questiions that this post would get a response of "how dare you analyze me" More or less, I was write.

Do you even understand you speak in vague, even pretentious, phrases when asked direct questions?

Again I reiterate: When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?




Again, this is my non-education, I am just trying to give you what you want.

What precisely is your question?

Answer that question in direct, simple, and clear terms.
[/quote]

[Hatter23]

SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

[Aaron123]

SOI, can you please fix your quoting?  I have no idea what's your words, and what's someone else is.

[SOI]

Between the ages of 6 and 7, I read an illustrated version of the Bible cover-to-cover... Several times.  If ever there was a chance that My eyes could have been "opened" to the alleged truth of the Bible, that would have been the time for your invisible friend to work his magic.

SOI, it had the exact opposite effect.  By the time I was 7½ years old I had seen through the artifice of organized religion and had publicly stated something to the effect of "Stories of Hell would be a really good way to keep a group of people under control."

And at no time in My 53+ years have I believed in the god of the Bible.

I've continued to read the Bible intermittently over the years.  In My eyes, "opened" or not, it simply doesn't deliver.  It's valuable primarily as a piece of historical literature, and heavily derivative literature at that.  It's not particularly original, and it certainly isn't a good source of either history or moral instruction.  I'm quite convinced that it was neither written by nor inspired by a god.

My disbelief is just that -- Disbelief.  I see no evidence for the god of the Bible.

(chalks Her hands and takes a couple of practice swings with Her Clue-By-Four™)  So, tell Me, SOI... What do *you* think is "really going on inside"?



I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?

[SOI]

SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

[Zankuu]

Here SOI, this should help if it hasn't been directed toward you before:

Quoting Guide.

[SOI]

You are correct. The Messiah would be a human, not a man god. No trinitarian god.

Jesus Christ/Messiah/Man did fufill this prophecy. Very good.

Psalm 110. Adonai said to Adoni.

Sorry, but no.

If you believe the bible, then Jesus was not a human but he is God / part of God / son of God. Prophecy not fulfilled.

And I did notice how you avoided replying to everything else in my post.

I am genuinely sorry that I have not responded to each post directed my way. But you do see the amount that come my way, and I only visit this forum when I get the opportunities between work and family.

Ummm, not trying to avoid, but, show me the trinity, and I will promise to respond to everything you ask.

[SOI]

Here SOI, this should help if it hasn't been directed toward you before:

Quoting Guide.

Thank you.

[Hatter23]

SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

There are claims of "miracles" or magic that you do not believe (for instance the various Creation myths throughout many cultures of the word) and people claim Telepathy, Clainvoyance, and getting you the  winning lottery numbers...I assume you do not believe in ALL of these "miracles."

However Christianity does have miracles you do believe in; like souls, the resserection of Christ, the power of prayer, and so forth.

By what standard do you  believe in Christian Miracles versus non-Christian miracles?

[SOI]

SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

 





Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

There are claims of "miracles" or magic that you do not believe (for instance the various Creation myths throughout many cultures of the word) and people claim Telepathy, Clainvoyance, and getting you the  winning lottery numberous...I assume you do not believe in ALL of these "miracles."

However Christianity does have miracles you do believe in; like souls, the resserection of Christ, the power of prayer, and so forth.

By what standard do you not believe in Christian Miracles versus non-Christian miracles?

I believe all those powers exist. We have been warned to "flee" from those dark practices. And those that did not, Saul with the soothsayer and raising Samuel, were punished.

I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.

i.e. doing bad things

[Aaron123]

I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?

In short, your god chose to condemn a 6 years old to eternal suffering.  He could've done something, anything to save the child.  Instead, he chose not to, even though it was well within his powers to do so.

What a dick.

[Hatter23]

SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

 





Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

There are claims of "miracles" or magic that you do not believe (for instance the various Creation myths throughout many cultures of the word) and people claim Telepathy, Clainvoyance, and getting you the  winning lottery numberous...I assume you do not believe in ALL of these "miracles."

However Christianity does have miracles you do believe in; like souls, the resserection of Christ, the power of prayer, and so forth.

By what standard do you not believe in Christian Miracles versus non-Christian miracles?

I believe all those powers exist. We have been warned to "flee" from those dark practices. And those that did not, Saul with the soothsayer and raising Samuel, were punished.

I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.

i.e. doing bad things

So you believe all of those things exist...even when they contradict each other? And you believe the claims that people can provide winning lottery numbers...even though, logically, if they had that capacity, they would not be charging other for their services, but rather winning the lottery themselves?

[SOI]

SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

 





Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

There are claims of "miracles" or magic that you do not believe (for instance the various Creation myths throughout many cultures of the word) and people claim Telepathy, Clainvoyance, and getting you the  winning lottery numberous...I assume you do not believe in ALL of these "miracles."

However Christianity does have miracles you do believe in; like souls, the resserection of Christ, the power of prayer, and so forth.

By what standard do you not believe in Christian Miracles versus non-Christian miracles?

I believe all those powers exist. We have been warned to "flee" from those dark practices. And those that did not, Saul with the soothsayer and raising Samuel, were punished.

I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.

i.e. doing bad things

So you believe all of those things exist...even when they contradict each other? And you believe the claims that people can provide winning lottery numbers...even though, logically, if they had that capacity, they would not be charging other for their services, but rather winning the lottery themselves?

Perhaps there is something not allowing them to win a bunch of money or that spirit giving out winning numbers? It all works together for good eventually (no, not karma).

Uhh, you won't believe any of that.

[SOI]

I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?

In short, your god chose to condemn a 6 years old to eternal suffering.  He could've done something, anything to save the child.  Instead, he chose not to, even though it was well within his powers to do so.

What a dick.

The correct term here is, self condemnation.

[One Above All]

The correct term here is, self condemnation.

You're right. The 6 year old CHOSE not to be convinced by a fallacious, contradiction filled book written by a supposedly perfect being. After all, who would choose that? It's so obvious it's true!

[gonegolfing]

 
SOI:

I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.

This ^^^ is so pathetic. Honestly, I feel sorry for you. Why must you do that to yourself SOI. Why are you forcing yourself to believe that you're the victim if you do something wrong ? One has a serious issue when one believes that an error in judgement or a moral failure is the result of one allowing themselves to become the victim of a demonic assault.

Does christ dwell in you or not !? If it is no longer you that liveth, but christ that liveth in you, then how is it possible to be possessed by the demonic ? What are you saying ? That one error means that you've allowed satan to kick christ and the holy spirit out of you their dwelling place and build a fortress from which to do his dirtywork ? Did jesus not supposedly conquer sin and satan at Calvary ? If you haven't ask jesus to leave you and he is unmoved from you by a mistake on your part, then what is all this sudden stronghold nonsense about ?

Quit victimizing yourself dude. You're failures are your doing and so just buck up and take responsibility for them. Stop with this woe is me I'm the willing victim of spiritual warfare nonsense and let the buck stop where it should...on your desk.

If christians are going to live that life then they're going to have to quit making jesus out to be a weakling wuss who can be shoved around  at anyones whim, and make him into the sin stopping gun slinger that he is supposed to be.

But of course that's easier said than done isn't it ?  This jesus story ran out of live ammo right from the get go. For centuries all that people of faith have been able to do is fire blanks. 

Talk is cheap. You desperately need some current, reliable, unambiguous, and definitive live ammo to work with if you're going to convince us of the truth and reality of the god idea.   

[Hatter23]

Perhaps there is something not allowing them to win a bunch of money or that spirit giving out winning numbers? It all works together for good eventually (no, not karma).

Uhh, you won't believe any of that.

No, I will not. You just said the spirit of Soothesayers works from a dark place; Now it works for good. Your cosmology changes to fit whatever statment I make.

Do you or do you not believe there are charletans? People who claim Miracles that are liars. I assume you do.

[Aaron123]

The correct term here is, self condemnation.

Bullshit.

Funny how you never addressed the parts about god's ability to do something about the child ultimate fate.  Was god able to do something about it?  Was god unwilling to do something about it?  Either way, your god is a total douchebag.

[Asmoday]

I am genuinely sorry that I have not responded to each post directed my way. But you do see the amount that come my way, and I only visit this forum when I get the opportunities between work and family.

Ummm, not trying to avoid, but, show me the trinity, and I will promise to respond to everything you ask.

I did not say that you overlooked one of my posts, I said that you ignored everything I said except a single point.

Regarding the trinity, I take it you haven't read your bible.
The Gospel of John states: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) followed by: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." (John 1:14)
 Jesus himself says "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58), "The Father is in me, and I in him." (John 10:38) and "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." (John 14:9).

There's more saying the exact same in Paul's letters and also in Revelation but I won't go into that now.

I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?

In short, your god chose to condemn a 6 years old to eternal suffering.  He could've done something, anything to save the child.  Instead, he chose not to, even though it was well within his powers to do so.

What a dick.

The correct term here is, self condemnation.

I think it has been a very long while since I have seen such horrible reasoning.

SOI, I doubt you have thought this through. So let's have a look at this.

You say this is a case of self-condemnation. But before that you have said that to see the truth in the bible God has to open your eyes. You go on to say that God as an all-knowing God saw into the future and because Astreja would write such horribly atheistic posts in her future, God decided not to open the eyes of Astreja at the age of 6 when she read through the bible.

There is no self condemnation there, SOI.

Astreja writes posts like this because God did not open her eyes. If God had opened her eyes, he would not be writing these posts now. So everything that happens is because God condemned her at the age of 6 for things she would do in the future only because God condemned her at the age of 6.


I know you don't like to hear it, but according to your own argumentation your God alone is to blame.

[frofrodajimmyboy]

Huh? There are OneTrueChristians^tm? Since when? And who are they, in your book? There are more than 30,000 Christian denominations alone. And many hate each other. And I asked you about the other gods. How are they "not there"? They have just as much proof as your god. The Hindus have the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, etc, all holy books that show proof like your god, YHWH, does. So again, why are they not the one true gods?

You still didn't answer the above question, SOI. Are you really that weak in your faith that you won't answer?

Side-note: No Atheist is afraid of hell, nor do they think about heaven. They are fictitious. And so is Satan, just like YHWH. We don't believe in anything in your religion, including all the other religions out there in the world. What's so hard to get?

Second time I am asking you, SOI, to answer me. Thanks.

Edit: Crap, I'm on my husband's profile. Anyway, this was LadyA.

[SOI]

I think it has been a very long while since I have seen such horrible reasoning.

SOI, I doubt you have thought this through. So let's have a look at this.

You say this is a case of self-condemnation. But before that you have said that to see the truth in the bible God has to open your eyes. You go on to say that God as an all-knowing God saw into the future and because Astreja would write such horribly atheistic posts in her future, God decided not to open the eyes of Astreja at the age of 6 when she read through the bible.

There is no self condemnation there, SOI.

Astreja writes posts like this because God did not open her eyes. If God had opened her eyes, he would not be writing these posts now. So everything that happens is because God condemned her at the age of 6 for things she would do in the future only because God condemned her at the age of 6.


I know you don't like to hear it, but according to your own argumentation your God alone is to blame.

My God is vengeful, especially to those who do not follow his commandments. Instead of placing it all at God's feet, take some responsibility for your own actions, something that has been preached to me thouroughly on these boards.

The 'argumentation" is not difficult to understand cause and effect.

It is many of his non-followers who do not understand his love and wrath. He acts for His own sake and for the sake of His people.

[SOI]

I did not say that you overlooked one of my posts, I said that you ignored everything I said except a single point.

Regarding the trinity, I take it you haven't read your bible.
The Gospel of John states: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) followed by: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." (John 1:14)
 Jesus himself says "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58), "The Father is in me, and I in him." (John 10:38) and "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." (John 14:9).

There's more saying the exact same in Paul's letters and also in Revelation but I won't go into that now.

Yes, I know my "quoting" sucks.


Now it's your turn to understand what I asked. At best, you may have named a bi(two)-god. Show me the trinity.




P.S. Would it kill anyone here to show a little kindness? Remember, humans can come to the knowledge of moral excellence apart from God??

[SOI]

The correct term here is, self condemnation.

Bullshit.

Funny how you never addressed the parts about god's ability to do something about the child ultimate fate.  Was god able to do something about it?  Was god unwilling to do something about it?  Either way, your god is a total douchebag.

Aaron123

Remain calm. The playground names makes you look brutish.

[LadyLucy]

SOI, please, fix your quoting. You can use the Test Area to see how you can fix it to your liking. I'll help.

Forgot to mention: Once you get the hang of it in the Test Area, you can edit your posts to have proper quoting. Mods/Admins don't like seeing excessive/inability to use/bad use of quoting.

[SOI]

Huh? There are OneTrueChristians^tm? Since when? And who are they, in your book? There are more than 30,000 Christian denominations alone. And many hate each other. And I asked you about the other gods. How are they "not there"? They have just as much proof as your god. The Hindus have the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, etc, all holy books that show proof like your god, YHWH, does. So again, why are they not the one true gods?

You still didn't answer the above question, SOI. Are you really that weak in your faith that you won't answer?

Side-note: No Atheist is afraid of hell, nor do they think about heaven. They are fictitious. And so is Satan, just like YHWH. We don't believe in anything in your religion, including all the other religions out there in the world. What's so hard to get?

Second time I am asking you, SOI, to answer me. Thanks.

Edit: Crap, I'm on my husband's profile. Anyway, this was LadyA.

The woman encompasses the man.

God is evident in all things. His invisible attributes are, everywhere. His power has been clearly seen. Being understood through all that has been made. But your heart has become darkened.

This is the best I will do for you.

You are not afraid of heaven or hell, fine. But you are concerned/fearful about dying, and you feel your reward is now. And you will reap your reward, now.

The Kingdom of God is eternal life.

[LadyLucy]

The woman encompasses the man.

Ok?

God is evident in all things. His invisible attributes are, everywhere. His power has been clearly seen. Being understood through all that has been made. But your heart has become darkened.

But the Hindus have miracles, too, done by their own gods. (Video below)



And of course, people want to debunk the "miracle". Why not debunk the miracles of Christianity, too, as well as the other religions?

This is the best I will do for you.

I don't know... I wish you could explain farther. Frankly, I don't like seeing cryptic statements. I want direct answers. Not necessarily essay-long answers, but just paragraph-long would suffice.

You are not afraid of heaven or hell, fine. But you are concerned/fearful about dying, and you feel your reward is now. And you will reap your reward, now.

But that's the thing: I don't believe in heaven, nor hell, nor any other fictional plane of existence. I don't feel anything about them, just like I don't feel anything about the Mushroom Kingdom. And why are you suddenly making assumptions that I am concerned/fearful about dying? I am not, I assure you. In fact, the day I know I'm going to die, I will embrace it. When my time comes, that's it. There's nothing to be afraid of. Suffering simply ceases, any type of suffering whatsoever. And I know I lived a good life, for what it was worth.

What reward? I don't know what "reward" you are talking about. Again, I don't like cryptic passages. I want direct answers, not a merry-go-round. Say something, or don't, because you are sounding more and more strange...

The Kingdom of God is eternal life.

Ok? I hope you didn't mean to preach there. Keep that tid-bit to yourself. Let me fix that...

The Kingdom of God is eternal life.

Ah, much better knowing that preaching tid-bit is not there. Run along.

[Aaron123]

Aaron123

Remain calm. The playground names makes you look brutish.

Once again; you fail to address whenever god could've saved the child or not.  It's very telling how you dance around the issue, and instead, try to make it about me.  Not buying it.

I'll ask again:  Was god willing to save the child?  If so, why didn't he?  If he wasn't, why do you accept his judgement? Astreja could've been awaiting a return to her lord and savior.  But instead, the lord and savior decided Astreja could rot in hell for all he cared.

[Asmoday]

My God is vengeful, especially to those who do not follow his commandments. Instead of placing it all at God's feet, take some responsibility for your own actions, something that has been preached to me thouroughly on these boards.

The 'argumentation" is not difficult to understand cause and effect.

It is many of his non-followers who do not understand his love and wrath. He acts for His own sake and for the sake of His people.

I will explain it to you again (This time in single sentences and with the important parts are in big):

You said that to see the truth in the bible God has to open the eyes of the one reading the bible.

In Astreja's case you said God did not open her eyes because of what she will do in the future (in this case writing atheistic posts on a forum).

But her actions now happen because God did not open her eyes in the past.

So in Astreja's case God withheld the eye opening because of actions that will happen in the future, but those actions only happen because God withheld the eye opening.

God doesn't let 6 year old Astreja understand the bible because of Astreja's actions in the future that only happen because God did not let her understand the bible in the past in the first place..

I don't know how to make it any more obvious for you.

With such a God there is no responsibility for your own actions because God decides for you. He either condemns you or opens your eyes and in both cases it is not your choice.

Yes, I know my "quoting" sucks.

I did not speak about your quoting. I said you that out of all the things I mentioned in my post, you only picked up a single point.

Now it's your turn to understand what I asked. At best, you may have named a bi(two)-god. Show me the trinity.

Why should I show you the trinity?

I showed you that Jesus, as described in the bible, was no human, which means he has not fulfilled that part of the messianic prophecy.

[screwtape]

Hi, SOI

Bullshit.

Funny how you never addressed the parts about god's ability to do something about the child ultimate fate.  Was god able to do something about it?  Was god unwilling to do something about it?  Either way, your god is a total douchebag.

Aaron123

Remain calm. The playground names makes you look brutish.

Nevertheless, the brute has a point.  Could you please address it?