Author Topic: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...  (Read 23969 times)

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Offline jeremy0

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #406 on: May 24, 2012, 12:27:20 AM »
God so love the world he gave his only son to die for the sins of the world.  Jesus Atoning death is a gift for Salvation.  You need to accept Jesus as lord and savior.  It is your choice not God's choice. 

Everyone has eternal life you have to decide where you want to spend it.
NATHAN: 

Are you five?  Listen, why in the 'heavens' would it require belief in Jesus in order to be 'saved'?  What about all the people who came before him, and all the people that have never heard of him?  Also, didn't he die for the forgiveness of ALL SIN?  Wouldn't that mean EVERYONE IS SAVED?  Why would he give a gift of salvation, and then say - if you at some point in your life didn't believe in me, you have made the choice to be damned for all eternity?  Wouldn't that include everyone?  At some point in everyones' lives, there was no belief in Jesus...

Let me put it another way - if I were God, and my requirement for heaven was based on your actions, what the fuck would it matter whether or not you chose to believe in some book, regardless of when it was written?  Also, I wouldn't need you 'believing in me' when it doesn't matter.  Yes, constantly believing in Jesus serves no real purpose. 

Now let me put it another way:  If I were god, and I had a purpose for this place, why the hell would it require the death and eternal torture of countless lives that committed crimes during their live, to serve no real purpose or cause for learning, and save only the lucky ones?  That scenario, as a god and a creator, makes no sense.  If I created this world, it served a purpose in its entirety.  I don't have a need to do senseless crap in order to bring about a better society.  In fact, we can bring about a better society today if you would just get with the program and listen...

Let me give you an example.  Do you believe in what I'm saying right now?  No?  Does it change the fact that it happened?  No.  It didn't matter.  It only matters if it CHANGED SOMETHING.  If it did, then good.  If not, no biggie. 

Now tell me this - how does belief in Jesus change anything?  Have you made yourself a better person because of it?  If you have, then I would say you only made yourself better because you wanted to be a better person, and not because your belief in Jesus just happened to make you a better person instantly...
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Offline Lola32802

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #407 on: June 15, 2012, 01:48:04 AM »
The question of "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" is not a new question.  It's just a new variation of a very old philosophical concept called "The Problem of Evil".  The reasoning behind this concept is weak at best and complete whining at worst.  In a nutshell, it says that since there is suffering in the world, God either doesn't know about it, doesn't care, or can't stop it.  If God doesn't know about it, then God is not all-knowing.  If God doesn't care, then God is not perfectly good.  If God can't stop it, then God is not all-powerful.  My response (in a nutshell) is: pain happens - deal with it.  It isn't God's job to eliminate suffering.  God created our universe and our reality.  God set the parameters of that universe so that life is possible.  God expects intelligent beings to choose good over evil, but that doesn't mean that every single one of us will do so.  As for natural disasters, they are acts of nature, not acts of God.  For natural disasters to not happen, the laws of physics would need to be completely different, and if they were, we wouldn't be here talking about it since life would not exist.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #408 on: June 15, 2012, 01:58:22 AM »
I take it you didn't actually read the site's argument.
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Offline Timo

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #409 on: June 15, 2012, 02:23:35 AM »
The question of "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" is not a new question.  It's just a new variation of a very old philosophical concept called "The Problem of Evil".

I disagree completely.  I take it more as a challenge to those folks that, like you believe in faith healing.  You wrote in another thread:

*Religious healings* do happen.  Whether or not God is involved is a completely different matter.  My mom's friend had terminal cancer.  He went to a faith healer, and he felt a burning sensation throughout his body.  When he went back to the doctor for a check-up, the doctor told him that all of the cancer was completely gone.  Now, was it God, psi, or just a monumental placebo effect?  That's a different story, and I don't have the answer to that.  However, religious healings are definitely real.


I think it's great that your mom's friend's cancer was either misdiagnosed or went into remission.  But I really do wonder, if there is such a thing as faith healing, why is it off limits for amputees?
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #410 on: June 15, 2012, 07:20:46 AM »
It's just a new variation of a very old philosophical concept called "The Problem of Evil".

you are incorrect

The reasoning behind this concept is weak at best and complete whining at worst. 

Also incorrect.

In a nutshell, it says...

If you'd spent some time reading the posts in this forum you would see we are familiar with theodicy and do not need you to explain it to us.  Thanks for the effort, though.

My response (in a nutshell) is: pain happens - deal with it.

A wholly inadequated response that just avoids the question.  It is a way of saying "just shut up". 

As for dealing with suffering, we do.  We are not shaking our fists at god.  We recognize the god you imagine is just that - imaginary.  So we get on with our lives and deal with the suffering.  Just like everyone else.  The difference is we no longer go through the pointless motions of begging the creator to spare us.

It isn't God's job to eliminate suffering.  God created our universe and our reality. 

You miss the point and contradict yourself.  You cannot be responsible for all being and simultaneously not responsible for the ugly parts of it.  When you are the omnipotent creator of all being, the buck stops at you.

For natural disasters to not happen, the laws of physics would need to be completely different, and if they were, we wouldn't be here talking about it since life would not exist.

So you are saying, god is not omnipotent.  An omnipotent god could have arranged it so.

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Offline JeffPT

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #411 on: June 15, 2012, 09:29:54 PM »
The question of "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" is not a new question.  It's just a new variation of a very old philosophical concept called "The Problem of Evil".  The reasoning behind this concept is weak at best and complete whining at worst.  In a nutshell, it says that since there is suffering in the world, God either doesn't know about it, doesn't care, or can't stop it.

This is wrong Lola.  The WWGA question is deeper than that.  It has nothing to do with the problem of evil. You're thinking too superficially.  I'll give you a clue to get you moving in the right direction:  Christians believe that God cures cancer and all sort of ailments (that can and do heal on their own) all the time.  What is the fundamental, observable difference between healing cancer and an amputee?  Think it through.

My response (in a nutshell) is: pain happens - deal with it.

That is not an answer as to why God doesn't heal amputees.  That's a dodge of the question.  It's a brush off. 

It isn't God's job to eliminate suffering.

Strike 2. 

Do you really feel good about worshiping a God that looks down on a pediatric oncology ward, throws up his hands and says, "Hey, not my fuckin' problem". 

Plus the fact that if you are going to say religious healings DO happen (which you did say in another post), then why doesn't He heal everybody?  Is God deserving of worship if he has the ability to heal everyone, but picks and chooses who to heal based on (pardon the phrase) God knows what?  I've used this analogy before... if a doctor had a pill that cured every form of cancer in the world, and then only gave it to the people he wanted to, what would you think of him? 

Honestly, you Christians don't think these things through at all. 

God created our universe and our reality.  God set the parameters of that universe so that life is possible.  God expects intelligent beings to choose good over evil, but that doesn't mean that every single one of us will do so. 

No.  God did none of those things because God is not real.  As humans, we choose good over bad mainly because it feels better to do good than bad. 

As for natural disasters, they are acts of nature, not acts of God. 

If you are going to say acts of nature are independent of God (and this is something we agree on), then it opens the door to the very real possibility that every single thing that happens, everywhere in the universe, is an act of nature, not an act of God.  Prove me wrong.  Show me evidence that something could not possibly have happened without an act of God driving it, and I will believe you.  But please understand, that evidence would have to be solid enough to convince me beyond any reasonable doubt.  On par with enough evidence to prove that the Tooth Fairy was real.  Otherwise, everything is natural. 

For natural disasters to not happen, the laws of physics would need to be completely different, and if they were, we wouldn't be here talking about it since life would not exist.

So... wait a minute here.  You think religious healings are not violations of the laws of nature?  Is God capable of manipulating the laws of nature or not?  You're confusing me here.  Is God not capable of stopping an earthquake by simply lowering the pacific plate down slowly instead of having it slide?  Is God not capable of turning a hurricane out to sea instead of straight at New Orleans? 

The more I hear from Christians like you, the more convinced I become that you all think God is just some super powerful human who sweeps in to save the day when he feels like it.  This is not what omnipotence means!  It's so weird.  It's like you're trying to take bits and pieces from what you've learned in church, and coupled it with this vision of like... the nicest human being you can think of and meshed them together to make some sort of God-thing.  Do you understand that when this is what you're doing... you're making it up?   

Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline jetson

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #412 on: June 15, 2012, 09:39:15 PM »
I take it you didn't actually read the site's argument.

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Offline Grimm

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #413 on: June 25, 2012, 12:22:49 PM »
The question of "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" is not a new question.  It's just a new variation of a very old philosophical concept called "The Problem of Evil".  The reasoning behind this concept is weak at best and complete whining at worst.  In a nutshell, it says that since there is suffering in the world, God either doesn't know about it, doesn't care, or can't stop it.  If God doesn't know about it, then God is not all-knowing.  If God doesn't care, then God is not perfectly good.  If God can't stop it, then God is not all-powerful.  My response (in a nutshell) is: pain happens - deal with it.  It isn't God's job to eliminate suffering.  God created our universe and our reality.  God set the parameters of that universe so that life is possible.  God expects intelligent beings to choose good over evil, but that doesn't mean that every single one of us will do so.  As for natural disasters, they are acts of nature, not acts of God.  For natural disasters to not happen, the laws of physics would need to be completely different, and if they were, we wouldn't be here talking about it since life would not exist.

A bit late mentioning this:

Lola, the Problem of Evil isn't 'whining' - it's a serious question that comes out of the idea of a God who acts in the world right now.  If you do not claim that prayer to your deity is effective, then you don't have a Problem of Evil.

Your statement above implies a Deist position.  However, the Deist god does not respond to nor is it interested in prayer.  'Salvation' doesn't mean anything; the belief in the Son of God or even Sin as a  concept that divides a worshipper from God?  It has no bearing to a deist; the divine watchmaker does not care, or if he cares, doesn't do anything about it one way or another.

If you believe in Jesus, then you cannot be a Deist - Jesus tells you to pray, how to pray, why to pray, and informs you that God will respond to your prayers.

All that aside, the Problem of Evil isn't the thrust of WWGHA - see Jeff's post above.
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