Author Topic: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...  (Read 20907 times)

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Offline rickymooston

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #261 on: March 03, 2012, 03:22:14 PM »
It may be valid, but how does it address the real question?  If God heals at all, why do the "disabled" have to just be happy about it, instead of getting healed, like all of the other miraculous claims of healing?

Perhaps he doesn't heal.  :o

It isn't necessary to believe God heals to believe in God either. Certainly not in the sense one suggests here.

Now it may be valid to ask, did Jesus heal amputees.  :o We are told that he replaced an ear.
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Offline sun_king

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #262 on: March 03, 2012, 03:22:57 PM »

His totally valid point is, a large number of "disabled" people happily believe in God.
His point is perfectly valid.


Are they questioning why the good lord chose to give them a life of agony? Do they ask why they are in a chair while the other guy is out hiking?

Adjusting to their disability is a bit different from functioning perfectly well. Being happy is yet again a choice, can we be sure if they wouldn't be happier if they had all their limbs intact?

Offline jetson

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #263 on: March 03, 2012, 03:26:20 PM »
It may be valid, but how does it address the real question?  If God heals at all, why do the "disabled" have to just be happy about it, instead of getting healed, like all of the other miraculous claims of healing?

Perhaps he doesn't heal.  :o

It isn't necessary to believe God heals to believe in God either. Certainly not in the sense one suggests here.

Now it may be valid to ask, did Jesus heal amputees.  :o We are told that he replaced an ear.

Agreed, but it is a powerful strike against the standard model of what God is, and what God is supposed to be capable of.  If I had to choose to be impressed by any of his powers, it would be that one where he killed all humans in a flood, except Noah and his family.  If that happened today, I might consider him as being real.   ;D

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #264 on: March 03, 2012, 06:43:25 PM »
Perhaps he doesn't heal.  :o

Then the Bible does not accurately describe a deity.  Which is the entire. point. of. the. question.

It's not a large point.  It doesn't trash theism in general, or even all models of Christianity.  But it does mean that the Bible can't be trusted.  QED.
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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #265 on: March 04, 2012, 12:31:06 AM »
Now it may be valid to ask, did Jesus heal amputees.  :o We are told that he replaced an ear.

If I recall the story correctly, it was within seconds of the radical auriculectomy and the blood on the soldier's sword was probably still wet.    Probably just picked up the severed ear, stuck it back in place and did a couple of magic sutures -- More like field surgery than regenerating a missing part.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #266 on: March 04, 2012, 12:44:30 AM »
Now it may be valid to ask, did Jesus heal amputees.  :o We are told that he replaced an ear.

If I recall the story correctly, it was within seconds of the radical auriculectomy and the blood on the soldier's sword was probably still wet.    Probably just picked up the severed ear, stuck it back in place and did a couple of magic sutures -- More like field surgery than regenerating a missing part.

Wait, that makes it entirely possible?   &)

Offline Astreja

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #267 on: March 04, 2012, 12:46:15 AM »
If I recall the story correctly, it was within seconds of the radical auriculectomy and the blood on the soldier's sword was probably still wet.    Probably just picked up the severed ear, stuck it back in place and did a couple of magic sutures -- More like field surgery than regenerating a missing part.

Wait, that makes it entirely possible?   &)

Well, all except the "magic sutures" part...  ;D
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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #268 on: March 04, 2012, 10:04:54 AM »
Apart from the part of a bit of a discrimination attached with this question, I find it  valid.
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Offline orpat

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #269 on: March 04, 2012, 10:11:18 AM »
I didnt say 100 percent of All disabled are happy. Just that they wont be too happy when asked this questn.

So?  What's your point?





Point being a disabled person mightn't consider self as disabled. But asking questions like this might make one feel like one.
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Offline orpat

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #270 on: March 04, 2012, 10:16:04 AM »

The difference is that amputation is a disability.  Skin color isn't -- or, at best, it's a disability for societal reasons, not medical ones.


It was an example to explain the likeness between the two. The similarity lies with both questions differentiating between humans.


Apart from this, i find the question valid.
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Offline orpat

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #271 on: March 04, 2012, 10:22:56 AM »
Why GOD does not heal amputees?

This question isn't vague. It is clear and result oriented. Hence this question is clearly valid.

What I find interesting with this question is this question is situation based. This question will provide a good result if only it is asked at the right time to the right man.


In that case, there could be questions much better than this one.
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Offline orpat

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #272 on: March 04, 2012, 10:29:18 AM »
I thinl i got the question al right. Thought a lot. Then thought what does this questn imply? Then thought what if asked to a disabled person? Then thought what if that persom was me?

Then wondered how could somebody ask me that question?

If you are an amputee and you claim to believe in god, then a rational person should ask why god doesn't heal you. As long as there is the claim that god is omnipotent and loves his subjects dearly, the question is valid.

This is a miracle if it happens, being rational, most atheists would accept that god is real if amputees are healed in a consistent, repetitive manner. Just this one miracle would suffice. It is not discriminatory.


I would request you to put yourself in the "shoes" of that disabled person first, think a lot and reply again
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Offline orpat

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #273 on: March 04, 2012, 10:37:46 AM »
There could be less discriminatory questions-why GOD dosnt create miracles anymore ? Or other questns like that?

Okay, let me answer that from a book on advertising.  As an experiment an advertising agency put different ads for the same product --seeds for a new breed of strawberries -- in different newspapers in New York.  These were coupons to be mailed in.

The one that said, "GIANT SIZED STRAWBERRIES" got few responses.

The one that said, "PLUM SIZED STRAWBERRIES" got a lot of responses.

"Giant" "jumbo" "economy sized" are vague claims.  People filter them out.  Fuzzy, mushy, pillowy words leave lots of wiggle room.  Tack something onto a noun and you have said something specific and memorable.

There is a principle in rhetoric that if you use the right noun, you don't need an adjective.


I get what you are pointing at. But an attractive noun isn't what matters the most.
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Offline orpat

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #274 on: March 04, 2012, 10:39:16 AM »
Would have loved to explain some more. Unfortunately the wheels of time doesn't seem to have a brake.
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #275 on: March 04, 2012, 11:12:52 AM »
I would request you to put yourself in the "shoes" of that disabled person first, think a lot and reply again

Stop adding your emotions into it orpat and just think about it.  This question isn't about what 'healing' means; its about possible outcomes.  It has nothing to do with who is assessing this problem.  Whether your a human being with all your limbs or not, if you REALLY believe that there is a super powerful being in the universe who loves you and has the power to put a brand new arm back on your body with the snap of his fingers, why does that never, ever happen? 

Could it be that there is no such super powerful being? 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #276 on: March 04, 2012, 02:47:36 PM »
Hi JeffPT, my response was not emotional. Just an analysis of the question.

Anyway, if i have to answer this question, I will just say if your god says but doesnt heal amputees, its time to change your god.
For instance suppose i believe  Nature is God or Earth is God. Then this question isnt effective in questioning God's existence.
 
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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #277 on: March 04, 2012, 04:43:35 PM »
Hi JeffPT, my response was not emotional. Just an analysis of the question.

Anyway, if i have to answer this question, I will just say if your god says but doesnt heal amputees, its time to change your god.
For instance suppose i believe  Nature is God or Earth is God. Then this question isnt effective in questioning God's existence.

Actually, this question is deliberately aimed at YHWH, the god of the OT and NT.  When one drops their god delusion, amputees become, well, amputees.

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #278 on: March 04, 2012, 10:34:49 PM »
Hi JeffPT, my response was not emotional. Just an analysis of the question.

I'm sorry, but the impression you leave when you basically say 'walk a mile in the shoes (or shoe if you like morbid puns) of an amputee and ask again', is nothing more than an emotional appeal.  You want us to step inside their mind and see if they really feel 'healed', but that is not what we're asking at all.  The question we are asking you is a factual based question.  Fact: no amputees ever get their lost limb back.  How does that fact mesh with the notion that God loves all of us and that he has the power to give every single amputees lost limb back? 

Please answer this next question honestly... Is it possible that no human being ever regained a lost limb because there really is no god out there to put it back on?  Is that an answer that explains in every detail why people do not regain lost limbs?   

Anyway, if i have to answer this question, I will just say if your god says but doesnt heal amputees, its time to change your god.

Be careful here.  In the bible, it says (in several places) that God will give you what you want if you ask for it.  Are you willing to change your God when you realize you really don't get everything you ask for? 

For instance suppose i believe  Nature is God or Earth is God. Then this question isnt effective in questioning God's existence.

Please correct me if I am wrong here, but you believe in the God of the bible, do you not?  If so, then you don't need to create a 'for instance'.  You've got one that works perfectly in the bible.  For instance, John 14:14.  "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."  When it becomes glaringly clear that God doesn't actually do that, then (your words here) it's time to change your god.  I assume asking for a lost limb back qualifies under the category of 'anything', doesn't it? 

 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #279 on: March 05, 2012, 05:34:48 AM »
Actually, this question is deliberately aimed at YHWH, the god of the OT and NT.  When one drops their god delusion, amputees become, well, amputees.

Okay, so may I conclude that the question is not actually "Why GOD does not heal amputees?"

But rather "Why does YHWH, the god of the OT and NT not heal Christian amputees?"

If that is so,I think  the former question needs to be changed to clear confusions.
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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #280 on: March 05, 2012, 05:42:25 AM »
Actually, this question is deliberately aimed at YHWH, the god of the OT and NT.  When one drops their god delusion, amputees become, well, amputees.

Okay, so may I conclude that the question is not actually "Why GOD does not heal amputees?"

But rather "Why does YHWH, the god of the OT and NT not heal Christian amputees?"

If that is so,I think  the former question needs to be changed to clear confusions.
I thought the same, but doesn't roll off the tongue quite as easily, does it? And since there aren't that many Deists around, it doesn't affect many.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #281 on: March 05, 2012, 06:19:39 AM »
I'm sorry, but the impression you leave when you basically say 'walk a mile in the shoes (or shoe if you like morbid puns) of an amputee and ask again', is nothing more than an emotional appeal.  You want us to step inside their mind and see if they really feel 'healed', but that is not what we're asking at all.  The question we are asking you is a factual based question.  Fact: no amputees ever get their lost limb back.  How does that fact mesh with the notion that God loves all of us and that he has the power to give every single amputees lost limb back? 

Please answer this next question honestly... Is it possible that no human being ever regained a lost limb because there really is no god out there to put it back on?  Is that an answer that explains in every detail why people do not regain lost limbs?   

Anyway, if i have to answer this question, I will just say if your god says but doesnt heal amputees, its time to change your god.

Be careful here.  In the bible, it says (in several places) that God will give you what you want if you ask for it.  Are you willing to change your God when you realize you really don't get everything you ask for? 


Okay, maybe I went a bit overboard with "wearing shoes".

Now that I have begun to realise that this question is directed at only the Christian belief of God , I guess I should not be answering this question. Should I?
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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #282 on: March 05, 2012, 06:25:13 AM »
Please correct me if I am wrong here, but you believe in the God of the bible, do you not? 

Unfortunately not.
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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #283 on: March 05, 2012, 06:29:23 AM »
I thought the same, but doesn't roll off the tongue quite as easily, does it?

Indeed.

Quote

And since there aren't that many Deists around, it doesn't affect many.

Does it not?
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Offline GodlessHeathen

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #284 on: March 05, 2012, 07:03:08 AM »
My wit said to me that all this GOD thing is shit. I never believed or expected myself to believe before...

But the issue is that now i am confronted with a possibility that it might not be imaginary. If you are thinking that this might eb the ramblings of an old man about to die, then I am 22 yrs old only.

There is always a possibility, but certainly I would say that the probability is very, very small. Have you ever heard of the Dawkins Scale? On a scale of 1 to 7, 1 is an absolute theist who "knows" that there is a God; 7 is an absolute atheist who "knows" that there is no God. Of course, the word "know" here really just means strongly believe. I find myself between a 6 and 7; I believe that there most probably is no God and live my life accordingly.

Let me ask you a question. Even if some transcendent being does exist somewhere beyond our comprehension and perception, why invest belief in a being who has nothing whatsoever to do with its creation? Everywhere you look in the universe, you see randomness with little pockets of order, very sloppy "design" such as the laryngeal nerve that takes a huge detour down below the lungs before finally making its way up to the larynx (very inefficient if it were done by an intelligent designer), and people getting sick, suffering, and dying. There certainly does not seem to be much "caring" for those people, nor for starving children and oppressed people throughout the world. If there is such a transcendent being somewhere, then it "blipped" the universe into existence and then abandoned it. To me, that is not worth the effort to "have faith" in.

I was once where you are now, so I understand completely what you're going through. I would suggest reading some Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins. On the philosophical side, I would suggest Christopher Hitchens. I think you will find that the circumstantial evidence that there is no God is by far much stronger than the philosophical "evidence" that theists propose and claim proves the existence of God.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 07:05:07 AM by GodlessHeathen »
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #285 on: March 05, 2012, 07:56:57 AM »
Okay, maybe I went a bit overboard with "wearing shoes".

Now that I have begun to realise that this question is directed at only the Christian belief of God , I guess I should not be answering this question. Should I?

I think the question is relevant to any theistic view that asserts that God cares and is actively involved in the lives of human beings. I think the question can be paraphrased as follows and still have just as much meaning: "Why does God not give a damn?" That the evidence leads to the conclusion that a God who actually gives a damn about human beings is imaginary makes it relevant to almost any theistic view.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #286 on: March 05, 2012, 09:04:55 AM »
The answer is simple, God created the earth and the universe but he is not present. Lucifer was cast from heaven to run the earth. He is a reptilian angel. He was cast here because he was rebellious. I have seen signals from Lucifer many times..here is my website. (read the my story page). Please keep in mind that i could care less if you think it's a lie.

www.thesterlingwarlock.20m.com


« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 09:25:22 AM by Anfauglir »
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
                                 —Arthur Schopenhauer (German philosopher, 1788-1860)

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #287 on: March 05, 2012, 09:08:16 AM »
I'm a lizard? Holy shit, that's awesome!
EDIT: Wait, if I run the Earth, does that mean you have to do what I say? After all, your god put me in charge.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 09:17:42 AM by Lucifer »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #288 on: March 05, 2012, 09:16:32 AM »
The answer is simple, God created the earth and the universe but he is not present. Lucifer was cast from heaven to run the earth. He is a reptilian angel. He was cast here because he was rebellious. I have seen signals from Lucifer many times..here is my website. (read the my story page). Please keep in mind that i could care less if you think it's a lie.


Going green on your first post? I would have figured you for red but,

We're not here to examine your website. If you have evidence of these things post it here so the members can discuss the evidence for your claims. If you can't take the time to do this you have come to the wrong forum.

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #289 on: March 05, 2012, 09:22:51 AM »
It was an example to explain the likeness between the two. The similarity lies with both questions differentiating between humans.

Exactly as the god of the Bible does!
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?