Author Topic: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...  (Read 22468 times)

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Offline Dr.Viper

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Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« on: January 25, 2011, 06:44:15 AM »
...the why God doesn't heal them is that they are being punished for their deeds in their past life. It could be that.

Oh before going ahead, I am a Hindu-Agnostic-Theist and have been an atheist till recently until I felt HE must exist because of some things which i came across... So, now you know what sort of a guy I am religiously speaking, from that...

So yes, I feel that there might be more than one life for every living entity, and no i do not want to define life.

If you commit a bad deed, or a crime you have to pay for it. The idea of punishment is not clear to me and i cannot define it, but a fair god will punish on the same plate as your crime.... Sometimes, it might be your chance to penance and if you hurt somebody seriously in this life, you might be in a life that has to serve the other in the next life...

I do not submit to the idea that if you confess all your crimes, then you will get free of the sins.. That is quite something from a GOD if it does happen, right..? You kill a thousand people or do any crime however small or big, and in the end just confess to your bishop or pastor or whatever and you get to go to heaven if you praise the God..? That i quite too convenient.

I do not think so because i do not subscribe to BULLS(hit) Magazine, i subscribe to The Entrepreneur and The Economist..

Now, i do not think a real God would want to praise him and worship him so as to get us to heaven... I believe in a just and fair God. I believe that if God does exist, then he will be an ever encompassing energy that is the universe and everything. Yes, that is if he does exist....

The question WHY GOD WONT CURE AMPUTEES is not relevant if you consider it in Hinduist faith, but is in Christian faith. So, from that perspective i submit that my post here might have some merit to the reader. Thank you.
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Offline plethora

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 07:10:23 AM »
...the why God doesn't heal them is that they are being punished for their deeds in their past life. It could be that.

...or maybe because he doesn't exist.

Quote
Oh before going ahead, I am a Hindu-Agnostic-Theist and have been an atheist till recently until I felt HE must exist because of some things which i came across... So, now you know what sort of a guy I am religiously speaking, from that...

hmm... we don't get many of those here. In fact, I don't remember a single one. That's kinda cool ... though your beliefs no less false that any other religion.

Please tell me exactly whhat things you came accross that made you a theist... is there any evidence in those things?

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So yes, I feel that there might be more than one life for every living entity, and no i do not want to define life.

If you commit a bad deed, or a crime you have to pay for it. The idea of punishment is not clear to me and i cannot define it, but a fair god will punish on the same plate as your crime.... Sometimes, it might be your chance to penance and if you hurt somebody seriously in this life, you might be in a life that has to serve the other in the next life...

So you believe in a sense of "justice" ... I can see the appeal... what I can't see is the evidence for such a claim.

Quote
I do not submit to the idea that if you confess all your crimes, then you will get free of the sins.. That is quite something from a GOD if it does happen, right..? You kill a thousand people or do any crime however small or big, and in the end just confess to your bishop or pastor or whatever and you get to go to heaven if you praise the God..? That i quite too convenient.

I'm definitely all for people being accountable for their actions... but that's why we have laws and enforce them including punishment for murder. If someone kills a member of my family, I'm not going to lay back and wait for a god to make justice happen in some other life. I expect this person to be punished by spending the rest of this life in jail. Unfortunately, there is a huge lack of justice in this world... but only we can change that if we all work together as a species.

Sitting around waiting for god to sort everything out in this life or the next is nothing but wishful thinking and it may actually prevent people from taking action to ensure justice is served where it is due.

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I do not think so because i do not subscribe to BULLS(hit) Magazine, i subscribe to The Entrepreneur and The Economist..

Ok... totally irrelevant comment...

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Now, i do not think a real God would want to praise him and worship him so as to get us to heaven... I believe in a just and fair God. I believe that if God does exist, then he will be an ever encompassing energy that is the universe and everything. Yes, that is if he does exist....

You are making baseless claims with no evidence. You're just saying what you think a hypothetical god's properties and intentions would be.

Quote
The question WHY GOD WONT CURE AMPUTEES is not relevant if you consider it in Hinduist faith, but is in Christian faith. So, from that perspective i submit that my post here might have some merit to the reader. Thank you.

So you're saying that when a child is born in africa, suffers misery and pain all its life and dies of disease and malnutrition at the age of 4 ... they actually deserve this???

You think this child is serving out punishment from a past life? You think a loving god should submit anyone to such inhumane and immoral conditions as punishment?

... and here's the million dollar question... should we help these starving children? Or should we just leave them to suffer in the belief that they actually deserve it somehow?

Think about the moral implications of what you're saying.

...and which comes first? The bad deed and then the punishment? or are there cases where people suffer unjustly and then get a reward in a later life?

I ask because I can think of the opposite scenario where the sufferer does not deserve it. For example... a child is raped by an adult. Assuming no justice is done by law enforcement... does this mean that the rapist will be punished in the next life? Will he be molested as a child to balance things out?

... and the original molested child who didn't deserve it... does he then get rewarded in the next life? How the hell does that make the fact that he got raped any better?

That sucks and I would definitely not think that is a good and just god.

It seems to me that your are decribing an endless cycle of inflicting suffering and then experience suffering. That's hardly a good system for a deity is it?
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2011, 07:14:18 AM »
...the why God doesn't heal them is that they are being punished for their deeds in their past life.

Typical blame the victim.  Since the person has no knowledge of said "past life," the punishment is Unjust and the god responsible EVIL.

Gentlemen give no regard, let alone worship, to the EVIL.

--J.D.

Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2011, 07:17:07 AM »
... and here's the million dollar question... should we help these starving children? Or should we just leave them to suffer in the belief that they actually deserve it somehow?

Clearly you would thwart the will of this god if you help them.

In fact, I am going to beat some random people in the gutter--particularly that crying child--because, damn it, he deserves it.

I am doing Divine Will. . . .

--J.D.

Offline Dr.Viper

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2011, 07:24:31 AM »
hmm... we don't get many of those here. In fact, I don't remember a single one. That's kinda cool ... though your beliefs no less false that any other religion.

Please tell me exactly whhat things you came accross that made you a theist... is there any evidence in those things?

No, i cannot put before you solid evidence to it. Even if i say what happened an atheist will be right in saying that it attributes to luck and i am just inclined to have faith than consider myself lucky.. If i can provide even a bit of explanation to that thing, i will bring it here. For now, let it be my fantasy. :)


So you're saying that when a child is born in africa, suffers misery and pain all its life and dies of disease and malnutrition at the age of 4 ... they actually deserve this???

You think this child is serving out punishment from a past life? You think a loving god should submit anyone to such inhumane and immoral conditions as punishment?

... and here's the million dollar question... should we help these starving children? Or should we just leave them to suffer in the belief that they actually deserve it somehow?

Think about the moral implications of what you're saying.

...and which comes first? The bad deed and then the punishment? or are there cases where people suffer unjustly and then get a reward in a later life?

I ask because I can think of the opposite scenario where the sufferer does not deserve it. For example... a child is raped by an adult. Assuming no justice is done by law enforcement... does this mean that the rapist will be punished in the next life? Will he be molested as a child to balance things out?

... and the original molested child who didn't deserve it... does he then get rewarded in the next life? How the hell does that make the fact that he got raped any better?

That sucks and I would definitely not think that is a good and just god.

It seems to me that your are decribing an endless cycle of inflicting suffering and then experience suffering. That's hardly a good system for a deity is it?

You can chose to help them. If they were being given a blind punishment for their crimes, then they could have been sent to hell or something. They are sent back to Earth because other people get a chance to do good deeds and/or redeem their own crimes, do a good thing. So yes, we should help others, no matter what...

The original molested child might have committed a similar punishment.
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Offline Dr.Viper

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2011, 07:27:30 AM »

Typical blame the victim.  Since the person has no knowledge of said "past life," the punishment is Unjust and the god responsible EVIL.

Gentlemen give no regard, let alone worship, to the EVIL.

--J.D.

Is it really UNJUST? So, if a mass murderer lost his memory completely because of some disease or accident, will it be unjust to punish him legally..?
... and here's the million dollar question... should we help these starving children? Or should we just leave them to suffer in the belief that they actually deserve it somehow?

Clearly you would thwart the will of this god if you help them.

In fact, I am going to beat some random people in the gutter--particularly that crying child--because, damn it, he deserves it.

I am doing Divine Will. . . .

--J.D.

No. One should not. They are being put into this world in front of us so that we help them. If their crimes were so cruel as not to merit even a speck of sympathy, they wouldn't be put in front of us in this world..
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Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 07:27:35 AM »
Remains a disgusting fairy tale.

--J.D.

Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 07:30:57 AM »
Is it really UNJUST?

Yes.  He is, for all intents and purposes, the same as one who has done no evil.

Quote
So, if a mass murderer lost his memory completely because of some disease or accident, will it be unjust to punish him legally..?

Review your case law.  The only ones who lose their "memory completely"--who are not malingering or suffering a conversion reaction which is easily demonstrated--how do they remember language?--are too demented to be in prison. 

Quote
No. One should not.

I am the Agent of Your God [Tm.--Ed.].  Who are you to question My Divine Justice?

Quote
If their crimes were so cruel as not to merit even a speck of sympathy, they wouldn't be put in front of us in this world..

Rather contradicts your claims above.

--J.D.

Offline Nick

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 07:41:20 AM »
Not ONE single amputee deserves healing.  I guess if you are an amputee you must be a really bad person.  I plan to stay away from them.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline LadyLucy

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 07:42:18 AM »
Edited to remove unnecessary quote blocks. Please do not quote more than is needed.

I guess this is why India is still majorly underdeveloped: Judging everyone too much. Just because Hinduism happens to be one of, if not, the oldest religion in the world today does not mean it's correct. The gods are no more real than any other god. And not trying to help people in need just because your religion tells you that they reincarnated that way because they did bad things in the past is horrible, unethical, and inhumane; plus, there's no proof or evidence of reincarnation. The world need not be cruel to everyone. It helps to aid others who truly need help more than ever. It makes the world a better place, so that more civilizations can thrive.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 12:32:38 PM by HAL »


Offline plethora

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 07:48:05 AM »
No, i cannot put before you solid evidence to it. Even if i say what happened an atheist will be right in saying that it attributes to luck and i am just inclined to have faith than consider myself lucky.. If i can provide even a bit of explanation to that thing, i will bring it here. For now, let it be my fantasy. :)

Kudos for honesty, if nothing else.

As far as your beliefs, we might as well be discussing how Santa Claus delivers all those presents all over the world in one night on a tiny little sleigh. It's a fantasy ... it's magic! You can make up anything you want ...

This "karma" type system you believe in sucks, explains nothing and is despicably immoral.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline plethora

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 07:54:04 AM »
Clearly you would thwart the will of this god if you help them.

In fact, I am going to beat some random people in the gutter--particularly that crying child--because, damn it, he deserves it.

I am doing Divine Will. . . .

--J.D.

Damn it X ... you always somehow manage to make me laugh in the middle of me being pissed off at someone else's despicably immoral ideas... :D +1
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Offline Dr.Viper

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2011, 08:02:53 AM »
I guess this is why India is still majorly underdeveloped: Judging everyone too much. Just because Hinduism happens to be one of, if not, the oldest religion in the world today does not mean it's correct. The gods are no more real than any other god. And not trying to help people in need just because your religion tells you that they reincarnated that way because they did bad things in the past is horrible, unethical, and inhumane; plus, there's no proof or evidence of reincarnation. The world need not be cruel to everyone. It helps to aid others who truly need help more than ever. It makes the world a better place, so that more civilizations can thrive.

Majority of what you said is true, but i have provided my reasonings to these above and wouldn't repeat it as it might be regarded as spamming.

We should always help people in need, no matter what their crimes might have been or have not been. Reincarnated or not, judging people like that is not what i meant from my post above.

I am here to try and question my faith so that i can be sure whether to believe or not to. For me, it would be good to have a fair omnipotent, overseeing everything. And one of my latest fantasies incline me to believe. I want to question that, challenge that, and get some sense into me. That is the reason behind my posts and i appreciate all the above posts...

Is it really UNJUST?

Yes.  He is, for all intents and purposes, the same as one who has done no evil.

Quote
So, if a mass murderer lost his memory completely because of some disease or accident, will it be unjust to punish him legally..?

Review your case law.  The only ones who lose their "memory completely"--who are not malingering or suffering a conversion reaction which is easily demonstrated--how do they remember language?--are too demented to be in prison. 


I did not understand what Doctor X said about law in his post...So, is such criminals actually not punished..?
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Offline jetson

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2011, 08:05:46 AM »
To the OP, why is it that you prefer to invent a possibility, when it is plainly more obvious that there can be no good or loving or caring god at the controls.  God is imaginary, isn't it far more obvious and a much better explanation than yours?  If not, why not?

You are wrapped up in different delusions, and you are blending them together to satisfy your delusion.  Why?

Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2011, 08:06:12 AM »
Not ONE single amputee deserves healing.  I guess if you are an amputee you must be a really bad person.  I plan to stay away from them.

Indeed, they should not even be allowed to vote.

--J.D.

Offline Dr.Viper

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2011, 08:07:56 AM »
Not ONE single amputee deserves healing.  I guess if you are an amputee you must be a really bad person.  I plan to stay away from them.

Indeed, they should not even be allowed to vote.

--J.D.

That is taking it too far. I never mentioned anything like that. I even repeated myself many times. It is for us to help them that they are punished in this world.
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Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2011, 08:08:15 AM »
Damn it X ... you always somehow manage to make me laugh in the middle of me being pissed off at someone else's despicably immoral ideas... :D +1

I am a RIVER to my people. . . .

--J. "For El Lawrence, Mercy is a Passion, for Me it is Merely Good Manners" D.

Offline plethora

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2011, 08:14:30 AM »
I did not understand what Doctor X said about law in his post...So, is such criminals actually not punished..?

If it can be proven that they are mentally unfit they are not punished but given treatment instead (i.e. put in a secure mental hospital). The memory loss would have to be massive and other basic functions would need to be affected. A qualified doctor would need to make the evaluation by observation and testing over a period of several days. There's no way to get away with pretending to be insane for several days in a row.

... but for example, if a guy gets super drunk and rapes a woman but can't remember a damn thing, he is still responsible because the actions he took leading to the crime are his responsibility.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline plethora

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2011, 08:17:28 AM »
^^^ but according to your beliefs we don't need to punish anyone ourselves. Your god will sort it all out, right? So let the criminals run free! (sarcasm)
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2011, 08:20:48 AM »
Not ONE single amputee deserves healing.  I guess if you are an amputee you must be a really bad person.  I plan to stay away from them.

Indeed, they should not even be allowed to vote.

That is taking it too far. I never mentioned anything like that. I even repeated myself many times. It is for us to help them that they are punished in this world.

But our mercy lessens their punishment which only thwarts your god's will!

What do you hate your god?

--J.D.

P.S.

"You must try, Comrade Zilkov, to cultivate a sense of humor!"
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 08:26:13 AM by Doctor X »

Offline Dr.Viper

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 08:22:31 AM »
^^^ but according to your beliefs we don't need to punish anyone ourselves. Your god will sort it all out, right? So let the criminals run free! (sarcasm)

NO. Maybe God made us make the law and punish them so that we be autonomous.... (even more sarcasm). if our punishment is less than or is never coveted on the criminal, he oversees it. LOL.
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Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2011, 08:27:02 AM »
And maybe I am Nicole Kidman's Official Snuggle Bunny.

--J.D.

Offline jetson

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2011, 08:30:53 AM »
^^^ but according to your beliefs we don't need to punish anyone ourselves. Your god will sort it all out, right? So let the criminals run free! (sarcasm)

NO. Maybe God made us make the law and punish them so that we be autonomous.... (even more sarcasm). if our punishment is less than or is never coveted on the criminal, he oversees it. LOL.

Stop saying "maybe", and perhaps give me a response to my reply to you from here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17574.msg389084.html#msg389084

Offline Dr.Viper

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2011, 09:15:53 AM »

Stop saying "maybe", and perhaps give me a response to my reply to you from here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17574.msg389084.html#msg389084

Why should i stop saying maybe..? I said before too. I want to confirm whether my recently acquired faith stands or fails. I want to be sure of myself. So let us do constructive debating to help me find out a logical truth....

And to answer your question.... I think that there is some chance. And i want to ascertain whether the chance is obvious of its reality or not. Help me in that attempt. This forum has a lot of people who are sure of the idea that God is not there and i too believe somewhat in that line. But some factors induced in me a change, recently. I want to be sure of somethings, and that is why i came here. A constructive positive debate would help me.

Doctor X is missing wide off the mark - He thinks i am just another spammer.

And maybe I am Nicole Kidman's Official Snuggle Bunny.

--J.D.

Are you missing wide off the mark..? Maybe i am not smart enough to make out the meaning of your one sentence diabolicals...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 09:18:39 AM by Dr.Viper »
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Offline jetson

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2011, 09:18:12 AM »

Why should i stop saying maybe..? I said before too. I want to confirm whether my recently acquired faith stands or fails. I want to be sure of myself. So let us do constructive debating to help me find out a logical truth....


So, you don't accept that God is imaginary?  Or that all gods are imaginary, as the best possible explanation for all of the non-sense related to explanation of religions and their gods?

Offline Dr.Viper

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2011, 09:21:46 AM »
So, you don't accept that God is imaginary?  Or that all gods are imaginary, as the best possible explanation for all of the non-sense related to explanation of religions and their gods?

My wit said to me that all this GOD thing is shit. I never believed or expected myself to believe before...

But the issue is that now i am confronted with a possibility that it might not be imaginary. If you are thinking that this might eb the ramblings of an old man about to die, then I am 22 yrs old only.
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Offline Doctor X

Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2011, 09:27:31 AM »
Doctor X is missing wide off the mark - He thinks i am just another spammer.

You spammed, son.  You can either repent of it or keep bitching about it.

--J.D.

Offline Dr.Viper

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2011, 09:29:40 AM »
You spammed, son.  You can either repent of it or keep bitching about it.

--J.D.

In a way my post was spammy, yes. I agree and i repent...

I am still confused as to many of your posts. I couldn't make many of them...  &)
That was i kept at it, asking... Sorry on that too.
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Offline Tykster

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Re: Why GOD does not heal amputees? Maybe because...
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2011, 09:33:24 AM »
...the why God doesn't heal them is that they are being punished for their deeds in their past life. It could be that.


A couple of questions regarding reincarnation :

What specific mechanisms are involved in becoming reincarnated?

How is the form of reincarnation decided upon? i.e. what/who/what kind of conditions determine that you return as e.g. a bird or a worm?

If you have answers to the 2 previous questions, please cite your sources, thanks. 
rhocam ~ I guess there are several trillion cells in a man, and one in an amoeba, so to be generous, lets say that there were a billion. That is one every fifteen years. So in my lifetime I should have seen two evolutionary changes.