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Offline Asmoday

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2011, 09:41:12 PM »
Justin Martyr (non-Christian extra-biblical author) wrote Dialogue with Trypho which said that the tomb of Jesus was empty, although he claimed the disciples had stolen the body.
I'm sorry, but why are you writing things that are not true? You're off to a bad start.

Justin Martyr was an early Christian apologist and also later gained the status of a saint. He also never said anything like that the tomb was empty or that the disciples had stolen it.
His "Dialogue with Trypho" was written as a piece to deduct from scripture why Jesus should be considered the Christ and why Christianity is the new Law. In the introduction to this piece of apologia he goes through several scenarios of what could have happened to the body of Jesus (like that it could have been stolen) but that those notions should be dismissed because God is truly God and resurrection would be worthy of God, so that must have happened.


Quote
Why would the disciples die claiming in something that they themselves made up?
Why would the cult leaders of the Heaven's Gate sect commit suicide alongside their followers to get to the UFO hidden behind the Hale-Bopp comet if they knew they made it all up?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 09:43:30 PM by Asmoday »
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Offline Emily

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2011, 09:42:37 PM »
...this should be fun.

JT, I think you've bitten off more than you can chew. Good luck. BTW: When it comes to debating the members here can be pretty brutal (based on your other thread I highly doubt you've encountered some of the great atheists minds on this board. This might be a whole new world of debate for you)
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Offline Positiveaob

Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2011, 10:03:18 PM »
I'm gonna let the other guys field the bulk of your response #20, and I'm gonna focus on this last little tidbit:

Quote
Then the disciples were all killed for their beliefs (all but one who was boiled alive and then exiled). Why would the disciples die claiming in something that they themselves made up?

Even by biblical accounts, this ain't true.  Judas has 2 contradictory accounts of his death, but neither involve martyrdom.

And of course, John supposedly died of old age.

As far as the rest goes, who knows how they died?  The only reports of them dying are based on legends and not put down in writing until in some cases centuries after they were supposedly killed.  And these accounts are pretty suspect to say the least.  For example, supposedly Peter was crucified (although no mention of whether of whether he was given a chance to recant his beliefs or even whether or not he tried to).  But this was documented in the acts of Peter.  Even the church doesn't consider this too reliable, apparently, since it didn't make the final cut into the bible.  It also contains stories of Peter making dogs talk and resurrecting dead fish.  Does that sound like a reliable source to you.

Why don't you enlighten us with how you know how the apostles died.  Please include all contemporary accounts documented at that time, as well as evidence that they were given the option to recant their beliefs but refused.  Otherwise, can we dispense with this nonsense of "all the apostles died for their beliefs"?
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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2011, 10:18:23 PM »
Ooh! Oooh! I've got a question!!!

What's up with the whole "mutilation of baby cocks" thing???

It's supposed to be a covenant, right? Shouldn't a *grown man* make that decision for himself? Maybe something like a batmitzfah (sp?) or a gang initiation?

Like, hey little Timmy. You'll be 14 and a man soon. Will you stay in the church, make the covenant with god, and slice off all the skin on the end of your ding a ling?

And then little Timmy gets to say "Why, SURE dad! Of COURSE I will!" or "WHA!? HELL NO!!! LET ME OUT OF HERE!!!"

I dunno, see... It strikes me that forcing a helpless baby to make deals with the almighty creator of all existance (who incidentally seems to have *many* strange fetishes about goats and blood and genitals and whatnot) when they're incapable of exercising their "free will" and making that decision, and then on top of it hacking on their dicks when they can't defend themselves... It's, umm.. Well, weird. Really, REALLY weird.  :-\

I mean, there's A LOT of weird stuff in that old book... But the junk trimming has always struck me as amongst the oddest.

And it's become "normal", which is freaking SCARY man! Like what if some religion cropped up where an infant had to be butt-plugged with some sort of holy device in some bizarre ritual? The practitioners would be jailed immediately, and the entire country would be in an uproar about it! But yet we let CIRCUMCISION slide like it's nothing! In MY eyes, having never been a Christian and being on the outside looking in (but still being cut as a baby (which I'm still pissed about)), butt-plugging an infant would STILL be less of a crime than CUTTING PIECES OF HIS DICK OFF.

You know there are Rabbis who apparently SUCK THE BLOOD OFF with their MOUTHS? Big story out of New York... Something like a few dozen babies contracted hepatitis from it I think. And only THEN, when the babies got sick, did it become an issue.

So yeah. Baby cock mutilation in the name of the Lord. WTF??? What kind of a weird-o supreme being insists on something like that???

 3, 2, 1, GO!!!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 10:42:34 PM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline JT812

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2011, 10:20:32 PM »
I don't want to get you swamped in this thread like you are in the others, so I'll ask you a simple question: Is Hitler in Heaven, according to the criteria in your bible?

Not to avoid the question at all, but I didn't even know he proclaimed to be a Christian. But even if he did I would say no. Because all though we are saved by faith and grace alone, the result of true salvation is always works.
And I agree with everyone, this is a lot to cover and I don't have time to do it all, but I'd like to at least hit some of the big stuff, but thanks for being understanding that I can't cover it all  ;D

Justin Martyr was an early Christian apologist and also later gained the status of a saint. He also never said anything like that the tomb was empty or that the disciples had stolen it.
His "Dialogue with Trypho" was written as a piece to deduct from scripture why Jesus should be considered the Christ and why Christianity is the new Law. In the introduction to this piece of apologia he goes through several scenarios of what could have happened to the body of Jesus (like that it could have been stolen) but that those notions should be dismissed because God is truly God and resurrection would be worthy of God, so that must have happened.

Quote
Why would the disciples die claiming in something that they themselves made up?
Why would the cult leaders of the Heaven's Gate sect commit suicide alongside their followers to get to the UFO hidden behind the Hale-Bopp comet if they knew they made it all up?
You're right about the Dialogue with Trypho, I'm really sorry about that. But Toledoth Yeshu is an extra-biblical source that does confirm that the tomb was empty. Plus the Jewish Officials of the time were doing all they could to stop the spread of Christianity. If the apostles were claiming that the tomb was empty and Jesus was alive all the Jewish officials would have had to do was bring the body out of the tomb. They would have done anything to stop the spread of Christianity (considering they killed tons of people for it) but they could not produce the body of Jesus.

As for scientific reasons God exists. More and more scientists who now believe in the Big Bang are beginning to believe in The Singularity. This was (as I understand it) an infinitely small, infinitely powerful, source of energy that exceeded time and space, created everything we now know, and was not controlled by our current scientific laws. I find it amazing that scientists would recognize this as the cause of the universe (exactly what God is without emotions) but refuse to even acknowledge the existence of an Intelligent Designer. That's irrelevant though. The most important scientific problem with evolution is creation itself. In order for the Big Bang (or any other theory I know of for that matter) to take place it would require that the Laws of Conservation in every way (mass, matter, energy, momentum, etc) be broken in this one instance. It also required a source of energy that did not exist at one time to begin to exist (spontaneous generation). This phenomenon would be considered impossible to happen at another time in our universe and in order for it to happen whatever created all that we know must have exceeded the physical limits of everything we know. That entity would have to be a divine or at least supernatural presence, namely God. I've heard some make the claim that the Universe could be eternal but that is impossible because the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states that there is a gradual loss of energy in our universe meaning at some point there will be no energy left and at another point there had to be a "full" amount of energy (the beginning of the universe). I've had many people argue that the impossibility of creation by evolution does not equal creation by God. But my argument is not that evolution simply did not create the universe, it's that a supernatural force is the only possibility to the creation of our universe. That supernatural force is the author and creator of everything, the one whom we call God.

Offline sammylama

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2011, 10:22:25 PM »
This thread is a bad idea, IMO.  There is too much breadth of questions for one person to answer in any decent amount of time, and the thread will be way too confused for any of the questions to be investigated in any depth.

Reminds me of a thread our pal UniversityPastor started a while back . . .

Still, with god as a co-pilot, and a little divine intervention, keeping up should be a breeze for christian folk . . .
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Offline Ashe

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2011, 10:23:31 PM »
What created God?
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Offline jetson

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2011, 10:27:13 PM »
What created God?

The Bigger Bang.

Offline Emily

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2011, 10:28:26 PM »
In order for the Big Bang (or any other theory I know of for that matter) to take place it would require that the Laws of Conservation in every way (mass, matter, energy, momentum, etc) be broken in this one instance.

What does the second law state. (I ask this because many creationists ignore one important, three word phrase, which the second law includes)

Note: The earth is not an isolated system.
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Offline JT812

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2011, 10:39:20 PM »
It's supposed to be a covenant, right? Shouldn't a *grown man* make that decision for himself? FORCING a helpless baby to make deals with the almighty creator of all existance when they're incapable of exercising their "free will" and making that decision, and then on top of it hacking on their dicks when they can't defend themselves... It's, umm.. Well, weird. Really, REALLY weird.  :-\

Well like you said it was part of a covenant with God, but it's really not that weird. I don't know where you live but there are TONS of people in America who were circumcised as babies with no choice but the choice of their parents.


Why don't you enlighten us with how you know how the apostles died.  Please include all contemporary accounts documented at that time, as well as evidence that they were given the option to recant their beliefs but refused.  Otherwise, can we dispense with this nonsense of "all the apostles died for their beliefs"?
Pliny's Letters to Trajan and other extra-biblical sources such as Tacitus' Annals, book XV (I can find more if you want) confirm that anyone professing to be a Christian were to be put to death. If they renounced their faith they were allowed to live. Certainly the apostles would have been at the top of this list and certainly nobody would have continued to believe if the apostles themselves renounced their beliefs. Further, if the apostles had renounced their beliefs this certainly would have been written down and any rumors of their martyrs would have been crushed because there was a large movement to stop the spread of Christianity.

Offline JT812

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2011, 10:42:44 PM »
What created God?
There is no need for a creator of God because he is eternal. But we know that the universe cannot be eternal.

What does the second law state. (I ask this because many creationists ignore one important, three word phrase, which the second law includes)

Note: The earth is not an isolated system.

That usable energy is transferred to unusable energy over time. It would probably just be easier if you told me the three word phrase, haha

Offline jetson

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2011, 10:42:58 PM »

Well like you said it was part of a covenant with God, but it's really not that weird. I don't know where you live but there are TONS of people in America who were circumcised as babies with no choice but the choice of their parents.


My bold.  Circumcision is unnecessary, do you understand?  It has absolutely no basis for being done, outside of ancient religious beliefs, and now, according to you, popularity?  If Jesus jumped off of a cliff...oh, never mind.

Offline Ashe

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2011, 10:43:21 PM »
Certainly the apostles would have been at the top of this list and certainly nobody would have continued to believe if the apostles themselves renounced their beliefs. Further, if the apostles had renounced their beliefs this certainly would have been written down and any rumors of their martyrs would have been crushed because there was a large movement to stop the spread of Christianity.

You say "certainly" for things you can't have certainty for.
You have absolutely no grounds to say that "certainly" nobody would have continued to believe. You just don't know that. People have believed stupid things in the past for stupid reasons; they still believe stupid things for stupid reasons; they continue to believe stupid things for stupid reasons. The cults of the world confirm this.

Your logic is as shaky as your science.
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Offline sammylama

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2011, 10:44:58 PM »
But Toledoth Yeshu is an extra-biblical source that does confirm that the tomb was empty.

I urge you to go here and do a little bit of research on what you have just claimed.  Your standards would have to be fairly lax to accept a manuscript likely constructed between the 4th - 6th century as a viable source for the supposed "empty tomb."  Also, which version were you referring to?  There are many.

Quote
Plus the Jewish Officials of the time were doing all they could to stop the spread of Christianity. If the apostles were claiming that the tomb was empty and Jesus was alive all the Jewish officials would have had to do was bring the body out of the tomb. They would have done anything to stop the spread of Christianity (considering they killed tons of people for it) but they could not produce the body of Jesus.

Please provide your source(s) for this information and go into a little more detail.  For instance, what, exactly, were the Jewish Officials doing to stop the spread of christianity (instead of saying "all they could do").

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Offline Ashe

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2011, 10:45:17 PM »
What created God?
There is no need for a creator of God because he is eternal. But we know that the universe cannot be eternal.

The universe as we know it cannot be eternal.
We have no idea what the universe was before it was the universe, or before it had the properties it has today.

On the other hand, you stipulate that something much more complex than the universe could ever be is eternal (without anything but your opinion to buttress this). Special Pleading, party of one? Special pleading, your table is ready.
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2011, 10:48:18 PM »
As for scientific reasons God exists. More and more scientists who now believe in the Big Bang are beginning to believe in The Singularity. This was (as I understand it) an infinitely small, infinitely powerful, source of energy that exceeded time and space, created everything we now know, and was not controlled by our current scientific laws. I find it amazing that scientists would recognize this as the cause of the universe (exactly what God is without emotions) but refuse to even acknowledge the existence of an Intelligent Designer. That's irrelevant though. The most important scientific problem with evolution is creation itself. In order for the Big Bang (or any other theory I know of for that matter) to take place it would require that the Laws of Conservation in every way (mass, matter, energy, momentum, etc) be broken in this one instance. It also required a source of energy that did not exist at one time to begin to exist (spontaneous generation). This phenomenon would be considered impossible to happen at another time in our universe and in order for it to happen whatever created all that we know must have exceeded the physical limits of everything we know. That entity would have to be a divine or at least supernatural presence, namely God. I've heard some make the claim that the Universe could be eternal but that is impossible because the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states that there is a gradual loss of energy in our universe meaning at some point there will be no energy left and at another point there had to be a "full" amount of energy (the beginning of the universe). I've had many people argue that the impossibility of creation by evolution does not equal creation by God. But my argument is not that evolution simply did not create the universe, it's that a supernatural force is the only possibility to the creation of our universe. That supernatural force is the author and creator of everything, the one whom we call God.

I'm guessing you're an artist because you're really good at drawing conclusions.  :)

This is the sort of thing where we'd like to have references. I've been reading a number of scientific magazines and web sites for years,  including plenty of physics and astronomy sources, and nothing I've ever read (outside of unqualified creationist garbage) has ever made these claims, that I  know of.

Pretending something is impossible unless god did it doesn't impress me much. Scientists are gradually whittling down the unknowns in physics and as of yet they haven't found any indication of something so fantastic it has to be called god. Unless you can show me your sources, I'm going to have to just flat say you are wrong.

In this instance you're sort of like a 'D' student describing everything you know about science and proclaiming you understand everything. Those of us who studied a little harder aren't going to be giving you any breaks.


Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2011, 10:49:14 PM »
It's supposed to be a covenant, right? Shouldn't a *grown man* make that decision for himself? FORCING a helpless baby to make deals with the almighty creator of all existance when they're incapable of exercising their "free will" and making that decision, and then on top of it hacking on their dicks when they can't defend themselves... It's, umm.. Well, weird. Really, REALLY weird.  :-\

Well like you said it was part of a covenant with God, but it's really not that weird. I don't know where you live but there are TONS of people in America who were circumcised as babies with no choice but the choice of their parents.

Yes, it IS weird. YOU'RE CUTTING PIECES OFF A BABY'S DICK. WITHOUT IT'S PERMISSION. FOR RITUALISTIC PURPOSES!!!

In what possible reality is that NOT weird!? What is wrong with you!!??  :o

I'm AWARE it's very common. But you're totally ignoring what I'm asking. You're instead telling me what I already know.




*What kind of God asks such a thing? Would YOU ask such a thing of somebody???

"Hey Marty. I know you said you'd help me move this weekend... But I'm gonna need you to go ahead and slice off the tip of your penis to know you're serious."

???? I dunno man. Sounds like ancient bronze-age desert dwelling goat-herder superstition to me. And not so much the mandate of some perfect, all powerful, timeless deity.

 Especially when you throw in all the other stuff about goats, animal sacrifice, slavery, virgin-sold-to-her-rapist policy, etc.




*Where does that child's "free will" come into play? He has no choice in the matter.

I would put forward that it's done this way because the clergy knows that if they DID wait until the child was old enough to make this decision for themselves, they'd see one DRASTIC drop in church attendance. See, according to your religion, it's *required*. But very few sane person would volunteer for such a thing. Only the MOST devote bible beater would do so.

So what do you do? You do it when they're defenseless INFANTS with no say in the matter.

Real classy.  &)

If you are a god, and it's SO important, and you have no intention of giving the individual a choice in the matter, why not just snap your fingers and change the human genome so that foreskins just <POOF!> dissapear from Christian peni? Why put it in the hands of the parents?

What possible PURPOSE does it even serve? It's supposed to be this big agreement between god and man, but it's done (as I've said, MUST be done) before the person even has the capacity to understand the magnitude of the arrangement.

I'd further suggest that having to make the choice YOURSELF, as a young adult, would be in every possible way more effective in ensuring the individual remembers the alleged importance of it.

Seriously. I want you to think about this. Aside from physically branding you as a Christian/Jew for LIFE, and aside from the fact that the overwhelming majority of young adults/adults would leave the church altogether before volunteering for such a thing, it not only serves literally no purpose what-so-ever to do it when they're a baby, but it effectively removes all meaning from this so called "covenant", since it's not so mch a "covenant" as it is a FORCED practice on a defenseless baby.


*If a religion popped up over night that encouraged anally violating an infant with a piece of religious iconography during some bizarre ritual, and "TONS of people" started doing it to their kids... You wouldn't think that's a little WEIRD to say the least?

And anally violating a baby is no worse than, again, CUTTING PIECES OFF OF IT'S GENITALS. It's the exact same level of sick. Yet you've been told by your religion that there's "nothing weird about it", and never questioned it. That would bother the hell out of me if I were you.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 11:15:21 PM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2011, 10:50:05 PM »
The earth and the sun are not eternal.....stars eventually die,planets get hit by space debris
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2011, 10:53:00 PM »
how bout addressing some of my questions like why god had siblings?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 10:54:33 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2011, 10:58:09 PM »
how bout addressing some of my questions like why god had siblings?

I'd like to see an answer to that too. And wasn't Yahweh married at one point? lol
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Offline Positiveaob

Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2011, 10:59:05 PM »
Pliny's Letters to Trajan and other extra-biblical sources such as Tacitus' Annals, book XV (I can find more if you want) confirm that anyone professing to be a Christian were to be put to death. If they renounced their faith they were allowed to live. Certainly the apostles would have been at the top of this list and certainly nobody would have continued to believe if the apostles themselves renounced their beliefs. Further, if the apostles had renounced their beliefs this certainly would have been written down and any rumors of their martyrs would have been crushed because there was a large movement to stop the spread of Christianity.

Were Pliny's letters to Trajan referring to the apostles?  Were they referring to xtians denying the resurrection?  No.  So yes, please find more sources.

None of your "certainly"s above are at all certain.  They are just you reading between the lines and inserting what you really want to be true.

By the way regarding the rest of post 20:

I'm gonna assume that you have no evidence forthcoming on how the apostles died.  So, regarding the rest of post#20:

You have not offered scientific evidence for god.  You have made a false statement (the same "more and more scientists BS) followed by a complete misrepresentation of the big bang and the laws of thermodynamics, and finishing with an argument from incredulity.  Not scientific evidence.

And this whole nonsense of how xtianity is the only religion where you get to heaven by grace is not true.  The same concepts exist in Hinduism and Islam to name two.  And many religions throughout mankinds history did not have a heaven and hell.

And this "god is alive" stuff, I'm not following.  Are you suggesting for a moment that xtianity is the only religion involving anthropomorphication?  Really?

I am not a Master debater like you, but shouldn't the first rule be to had your facts straight before making statements?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2011, 11:02:54 PM »
in the few hours he has been here he has not answered one question completly
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Offline Omen

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2011, 11:04:02 PM »
Why does Jewish messianic prophecy and eschatology have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology

Most of the textual requirements concerning the messiah, what he will do, and what will be done during his reign are located within the Book of Isaiah, although requirements are mentioned in other prophets as well.

    * The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
    * Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance (Isaiah 2:4)
    * The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
    * He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8–10)
    * The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
    * Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
    * Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
    * He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
    * All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
    * Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
    * There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
    * All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
    * The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
    * He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 53:7)
    * Nations will recognize the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13–53:5)
    * The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
    * The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
    * Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
    * The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
    * He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
    * Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
    * He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13–15, Ezekiel 36:29–30, Isaiah 11:6–9)


"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Positiveaob

Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2011, 11:05:28 PM »
What created God?
There is no need for a creator of God because he is eternal. But we know that the universe cannot be eternal.

We don't know the universe can't be eternal.  And why no need for a creator of god again?  How do YOU know he can/can't be eternal?  As far as I can tell, you just really want such a god to exist.
If you desire peace of soul and happiness, then believe; if you would be a disciple of truth, then inquire. - Neitzsche

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Offline Asmoday

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2011, 11:07:06 PM »
But Toledoth Yeshu is an extra-biblical source that does confirm that the tomb was empty.
Just the same as before.

The "Toledoth Yeshu" does no such thing as to confirm that the tomb is empty.

It is a medieval text based on originally orally stories from around second to third century which are nothing else than a derogatory jewish parody of the gospels.


Quote
Plus the Jewish Officials of the time were doing all they could to stop the spread of Christianity. If the apostles were claiming that the tomb was empty and Jesus was alive all the Jewish officials would have had to do was bring the body out of the tomb. They would have done anything to stop the spread of Christianity (considering they killed tons of people for it) but they could not produce the body of Jesus.
If Jesus would have really been crucified, there would have been no tomb. His body would have been left to rot on the cross and when it almost fell off it would have been dumped into a mass grave.

You operate under the assumption that Jesus existed. Yet a character that never existed can't have a body either. You first have to establish that the story of Jesus in the NT is real.
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Offline rev45

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2011, 11:09:06 PM »
I'd like to see an answer to that too. And wasn't Yahweh married at one point? lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't marriage originally meant for people to make political or family pacts with others?  If so who was he making deals with?
Here read a book.  It's free.
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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2011, 11:21:17 PM »
I'd like to see an answer to that too. And wasn't Yahweh married at one point? lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't marriage originally meant for people to make political or family pacts with others?  If so who was he making deals with?

Nobody, of course. Cuz gawd did it for LOVE.  :'(

He's a romantic that way, I hear.
Born with insight, and a raised fist.

Offline Nick

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2011, 11:28:50 PM »
How about the fact that the apostles were made up as well.  The whole thing is a myth story.  Therefore, you can have to body getting up and the apostles  spreading the story.  Some have linked the 12 apostles to the 12 signs of the Zodiac with Christ being the "Sun"  or "Son".  It is a myth story and not a very good one.  Mirtha was a better read.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline ksm

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2011, 11:35:33 PM »
The other big issue was why Christianity is right while other religions are wrong. This would take a very long time to discuss all the many reasons I believe this but here's a very simple answer (I can go into more detail if you'd like me to):
Let's say at least hypothetically that God does exist (I can argue scientifically why he must exist if you'd like but I won't do that this time). If there really is a God, then one religion must be right and the others must be wrong because they are all different in some way.

Unless of course this god deliberately created different religions for different groups of people. In which case your little rationalization crumbles to dust.