Author Topic: I'm a Christian Open to Questions  (Read 38216 times)

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Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #174 on: January 13, 2011, 12:43:18 AM »
So is the earth only 6000 yrs old? Adam and eve real? Genesis? the flood? or are they just metaphors,and is your "belief in a higher power" where you said you had proof just a cop out?

As I told you a giant Raven found the first people hiding in a clamshell 12,000 years ago so I know YOU are WRONG
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #175 on: January 13, 2011, 12:44:23 AM »
The Raven discovered my people on a Naikoon beach hiding inside a clamshell about 12,000 years ago. The "story" has been passed down since the "dawn of time". That is how I know you are worshipping a false diety
[/quote]

So you can't give me the evidence.

That's Ok because even Hawking and Co can't ;D

Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #176 on: January 13, 2011, 12:46:01 AM »
But thanks for taking the ignorant stance that we will never know more tomorrow than we do today. Nice.  This was proven wrong not only yesterday, but again today.  How many more days do you want to stick with that type of mindset?

Search on Pre Big Bang.


Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #177 on: January 13, 2011, 12:46:44 AM »
I told you I know you are wrong because my "story" came about 8000 years before your "story" again when have I said ANYTHING about science or the big bang?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #178 on: January 13, 2011, 12:48:12 AM »
So because you dont know that answers,you stop seeking knowledge?

No, I am continually looking and that is probably why I swing around a lot.

I have no desired outcome as it has already been decided.

Offline DVZ3

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #179 on: January 13, 2011, 12:48:24 AM »
Dinosaurs, since you're a higher power diest type, and you avoid tough questions trying to get you to explain your postition better, I'll ask you this instead.

What type of evidence or knowledge is there that would change your mind about the "higher power" philosophy?  What specifically would you like solidified in science or anything that would change your perspective about it?
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Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #180 on: January 13, 2011, 12:51:05 AM »
So because you dont know that answers,you stop seeking knowledge?

No, I am continually looking and that is probably why I swing around a lot.

I have no desired outcome as it has already been decided.
If it has been decided why are you here ? to save us? fat chance....your version of god has all but made my people extinct
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Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #181 on: January 13, 2011, 01:03:38 AM »

I see the "higher power" belief as stemming from a lack of available knowledge.  I've thought about this one a lot lately so bear with me..


I think that is partly correct. But no one has the knowledge but your feelings or the way you see things will determine which side of the table sit.

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On one side, say... the far right side... you have the hard core believer.  Usually this believer has at best a rudamentary knowledge about science and the way it works.  When this is the case, it is easy to believe in a "higher power" because there are so many unanswered questions.   



But his belief is fueled by his experiences.

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On the other side, say... the far left side... you have the atheist.  Many times, this atheist is someone who knows a LOT about science and the way it works.  This leads to having many fewer questions about the universe because they have studied the answers that scientists have been able to provide and find their arguments convincing.   


Well you got the political part right ;D

By the way, which scientific work on pre  Big Bang do you follow. What was convincing about it.

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Nearer to the middle of the line is where a lot of people sit.  They have lots of questions but they also have lots of answers.  As time passes and more people have access to higher learning and with the internet going full swing, I think there will be a continued trend away from religion. 


This is the big percentage of the population.

The drift away from formal religion was well under way when i was at high school, early 1960s

But I think the drift away from "there must be something there" is very small.

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I have no problem with the idea of a higher power.  I do not believe it's true, but I hold out for more evidence before making final judgement.  It's fine for me because usually people who believe like that aren't going to tell me I need to believe it, or tell my kids to believe it, or try to make government policy around it, etc.       

If you have no bias or do not work on a “statement of position” it is very hard to eliminate a “higher power” from the equation.

Offline DVZ3

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #182 on: January 13, 2011, 01:15:59 AM »

I hope you understand that using the term "higer power" is synomous with "magic". And when I hear people say that I hear "the universe started by magic".  And we simply don't beleive in magic nor is there any evidence supporting this magic theory.

There is and are natual processes that we know and many that we still don't.  But that's just it, it's not magic, it's known and still to be determined processes at play. No magic.
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Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #183 on: January 13, 2011, 01:28:29 AM »
And thanks for avoiding the tough question about your philosophy, I'll post it again...

"And speaking of logic, I see you are a programmer.  What came first and why...Windows 7 or Dos 6.0? Do you think it first took the complexity of Windows 7 to create Dos 6.0? You do see where I'm going with this higher power philosophy right?"

I think so.

If you mean.......Let's assume Big Bang is correct then the "higher power", if it exists, is a product from pre Big Bang or in other words, it was not the starter the motor but just something further down the chain..

Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #184 on: January 13, 2011, 01:37:39 AM »
Dinosaurs, since you're a higher power diest type, and you avoid tough questions trying to get you to explain your postition better, I'll ask you this instead.


I simply don't have a locked in position. I think you are used to the "born agains"

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What type of evidence or knowledge is there that would change your mind about the "higher power" philosophy?  What specifically would you like solidified in science or anything that would change your perspective about it?

I am not really sure. I suppose it would depend on how my own experiences were shaping up. For example. let's say my own experiences started to change in such a way that I lost the feeling that something else was involved, that alone would probably be enough for me to jump to your side of the table.

As a side note, I said at the moment I am putting more store in the Bible and have done that at times in the past, however, I don't see the God in the Bible as the "big power". Branch manager if you like. The only reason I mention that is if the Bible and God are shown to be 100% false my view on the higher power would not change.




Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #185 on: January 13, 2011, 01:39:59 AM »

If it has been decided why are you here ? to save us? fat chance....your version of god has all but made my people extinct

What I mean is the start of the universe or universes is all done. Whether it be by a higher power or did it itself or whatever, it has been done. There is nothing we can to do to change the method by which the whole show got going.

Offline Vivisectus

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #186 on: January 13, 2011, 02:04:34 AM »
Dinosaurs, since you're a higher power diest type, and you avoid tough questions trying to get you to explain your postition better, I'll ask you this instead.


I simply don't have a locked in position. I think you are used to the "born agains"

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What type of evidence or knowledge is there that would change your mind about the "higher power" philosophy?  What specifically would you like solidified in science or anything that would change your perspective about it?

I am not really sure. I suppose it would depend on how my own experiences were shaping up. For example. let's say my own experiences started to change in such a way that I lost the feeling that something else was involved, that alone would probably be enough for me to jump to your side of the table.

As a side note, I said at the moment I am putting more store in the Bible and have done that at times in the past, however, I don't see the God in the Bible as the "big power". Branch manager if you like. The only reason I mention that is if the Bible and God are shown to be 100% false my view on the higher power would not change.

this begs the question - can you imagine anything that would change your mind? I can. There are criteria that have to be met for me to believe. What criteria - except for a vague hunch - were met for you?
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Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #187 on: January 13, 2011, 02:33:15 AM »

I hope you understand that using the term "higer power" is synomous with "magic". And when I hear people say that I hear "the universe started by magic".  And we simply don't beleive in magic nor is there any evidence supporting this magic theory.

There is and are natual processes that we know and many that we still don't.  But that's just it, it's not magic, it's known and still to be determined processes at play. No magic.

Well I guess anything that happens that does not obey our natural laws is magic. Correct?

Offline Dinosaurs

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #188 on: January 13, 2011, 02:43:07 AM »

this begs the question - can you imagine anything that would change your mind? I can. There are criteria that have to be met for me to believe. What criteria - except for a vague hunch - were met for you?

As I have already said, if my experiences were to change. For example, perhaps I have had years of coincidences etc and my new life experiences change and in the process expose the past as coincidences.

As to the science required, hard for me to say as I am not a theoretical physicist. Let me give you an example of what I mean. Let's say we have a rifle and one person says the muzzle velocity is 1500 f/s and another says it is 3000 f/s. The bullet is a typical lead core with guilding metal jacket. Without a chronograph what is an easy way to tell which velocity is correct? Some one who knows about shooting steel plate will have the answer with one shot, very easy. In fact he can probably pick 2300 f/s from 2600 f/s, not even open to doubt. However, if you ask someone who is not familiar and thus lacks the knowledge then they can't state that is a test that will prove the muzzle velocity is either 1500 f/s or 3000 f/s

But maybe the science answer for me is the same for you where you can then stae 100% there is no god or gods or God
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 02:46:59 AM by Dinosaurs »

Offline Doctor X

Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #189 on: January 13, 2011, 03:43:34 AM »
Well I guess anything that happens that does not obey our natural laws is magic. Correct?

Too bad it never happens.  Oh, I know, you like to elevate your willful ignorance to "magic."

--J.D.

Offline JT812

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #190 on: January 13, 2011, 08:47:20 AM »
Well I guess anything that happens that does not obey our natural laws is magic. Correct?

Too bad it never happens.  Oh, I know, you like to elevate your willful ignorance to "magic."

--J.D.
What about the Big Bang? We've already discussed how that does break many laws. Magic!

Offline DVZ3

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #191 on: January 13, 2011, 09:56:27 AM »
There is and are natual processes that we know and many that we still don't.  But that's just it, it's not magic, it's known and still to be determined processes at play. No magic.

Well I guess anything that happens that does not obey our natural laws is magic. Correct?

This is absolutely not correct and a very naive conclusion to make.  There are many people right now that have spent their entire lives and academic careers studying exactly how and why things work today that we didn’t know yesterday and that comment is a slap in the face to them and human understanding.

Everything, at least in our observable universe seems to obey natural laws all around us.  But there are many that we don't completely understand.... yet. Like how exactly life formed, what happened pre-big bang, what exactly is going on inside a super massive black hole. We are still using our scientific methods to get a better understanding.  Again, no magic, but consistent processes of nature we mere humans are just starting to see the large iceberg of universe underneath the water sort of speak.

I mean honestly, have you ever seen a well executed magic trick?  It really does seem like magic in front of your eyes that the physical laws of physics are being broken.  However, when you find out how the trick is done its no longer magical anymore but a mere illusion that obeys our natural laws.

Our universe is big, bigger than we can comprehend at times.  And it’s filled with phenomenon that just seem like magic to the untrained eye.  But the more you learn about math, physics, chemistry and cosmology, the more we find out about how the tricks are done.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 09:58:09 AM by DVZ3 »
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Offline velkyn

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #192 on: January 13, 2011, 10:36:40 AM »
I hate to be like what every other Christian you probably see on this site is like. I hate to leave because I could argue all day against your points. But that's irrelevant since it's pretty apparent everyone on this site is already very determined in their beliefs and it's obvious that many (not all) just have a blatant hate for religion/God in every way. Claiming that Muhammad, Jesus, and Siddhartha are all made up is just ridiculous.
but you have no evidence that they do so wahahhhh.  and ah the usual claims that atheists are close minded.  Sorry, I just don't have to accept any myth as true with no thought. You would have me do that just for yours.  Sad.
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Even if all these people were real that wouldn't make any of their religions true, but people feel the need to try and disprove their very existence because of their strong ill-will toward religion.
No, no ill will, just wanting to see evidence, not pious prating by people who think they know things and demonstrably don't. 
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This clearly marks someone who has lost all open-mindedness and true research and resorted to accepting and investigating anything that could even possibly show religion isn't true. It's not searching for the truth, it's just finding ways to claim God isn't the truth.
unless you are psychic and have evidence, you are bearing false witness and are indeed a liar. Open-mindedness is not accepting anythign on someone's say so.  It is looking for evidence. The problem you have is that when you claim evidence and someone asks you for it, you are cornered since you don't have it.  And then this starts.

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There are people on this site whom I feel would have a reasonable conversation/debate and be open-minded.
then challenge one of these people to a one-on-one debate. But I *know* you won't.
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But far too many post comments that aren't even worth responding to and that attack parts of Christianity they know nothing about. I understand not believing in God, but attacking a religion you don't actually understand is just sad. At least search for the truth and not additional ways to insult people.
  sorry dude but I *was* a Christian and I have read the bible several times, both as believer and as not. It is not an insult to ask for evidence. Sorry you think so but that claim is weak.

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I know that some users are going to make fun of me and claim they hurt my feelings, but you didn't. Go ahead and make fun I really don't care. I enjoy debating and seeing other people's beliefs but when people aren't even willing to be reasonable it's just frustrating. And I would stay on despite the frustration but unfortunately I don't have enough time. Maybe I'll comment on posts occasionally but I just didn't realize the time committment holding up this post would require. I'm sorry to bail on you guys (and girls) but my time here is over  :'( Happy camping!
Nope, no fun making from me at least. I am going to call you what you have demonstrated yourself to be.  Being reasonable isn't accepting what you say without question.  Sorry, fail on that definition.  When you only want a soapbox, to preach and to validate yourself and your myths, you'll never get it here. 

you know for someone who was going to leave, I see that you are responding like dino would to his thread. Curious that....

I do love how once the hard questions start coming so many Christians become cowards and run away.  They always have some great excuses on why.  You've hit most of them and they are as usual, baseless claims, outright lies and whines.  Golly, one more Christian who suddenly has no time!  How not suprising.   &)
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Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #193 on: January 13, 2011, 10:42:22 AM »
Dino ....answer the question posted ealier is the universe 6000 yrs old created by a higher power or is it billions of years old ,,,,where science is only begining to trace its beginings as technology allows it? I dont have the big bang answers (I have only what I have read about it) our science knowledge has expanded much in the last decades and we are trying to look back billions of years

 Your default stand Goddidit is LAME
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Offline Alzael

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #194 on: January 13, 2011, 11:02:05 AM »
But far too many post comments that aren't even worth responding to and that attack parts of Christianity they know nothing about.

Speaking of not knowing anything about Christianity. I never got a response on my questions regarding salvation.


What about the parts of the bible where it states that god simply chooses who goes to hell and who goes to heaven. That he, in fact, chose whether that would happen before you were born, irregardless of anything you might do? What about the parts that say that god deliberately condemns people to hell? Or how he causes some people to disbelieve in him in order to condemn them? You really have never read that book, have you?

I'm assuming that you claim to know about Christianity. So this should be an easy answer for you.

As a corollary to the questions above, out of the 100+ ways to salvation listed in the bible, which/how many of those methods are true? If they are all true, then how am I supposed to hate the world and everything in it (John 2:!5) and subsequently be a friend to it (James 4:4)? How am I supposed to fear god, yet not be fearful of anything? And why am I going to hell for being circumsized? I certainly didn't get any say in the matter on whether or not someone chopped off a piece of my genetalia as a baby. If I pray to god hard enough, will he glue the missing pieces back on to me so that I can get into heaven?

I want to be saved, so how do I do it?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 11:03:40 AM by Alzael »
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Offline changeling

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2011, 01:38:24 PM »
So in other words, JT812, if we aren't just awestruck with all of your rhetoric
you are going to take your basketball and go home.

How pathetic.

Bye now!
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Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #196 on: January 13, 2011, 05:52:14 PM »
I am a confessing believer in and follower of Jesus Christ and I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I would really like to know what's your biggest questions/concerns/problems etc. with God, specifically the God of the Bible. I may not be able to answer everything you say or ask, but I would love to do what I can.
Let's assume that I follow all the moral commandments required by god except believing in him, am I going to heaven or hell?
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
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Offline JT812

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #197 on: January 13, 2011, 05:55:55 PM »
I have time for a short post  ;D
I'm sorry about the comments about people being close minded, hating god, etc, etc. I didn't mean everyone, I just meant some.

As a corollary to the questions above, out of the 100+ ways to salvation listed in the bible, which/how many of those methods are true? If they are all true, then how am I supposed to hate the world and everything in it (John 2:!5) and subsequently be a friend to it (James 4:4)? How am I supposed to fear god, yet not be fearful of anything? And why am I going to hell for being circumsized? I certainly didn't get any say in the matter on whether or not someone chopped off a piece of my genetalia as a baby. If I pray to god hard enough, will he glue the missing pieces back on to me so that I can get into heaven?

I want to be saved, so how do I do it?
Here's what you need to understand about the Bible. It speaks in absolute statements. What I mean by that is it takes everything to one extreme and presents that idea. For example, in Proverbs 26:4 it says, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." But then immediately after that in verse 5 it says, "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes." At first, this may seem extremely contradicting, but obviously the author meant to write them both since they're right after each other. They are both true, but written as absolute statements. An English example is "Many hands make light work" and "Too many cooks spoil the broth". Both are true sometimes but each are written as absolute statements. So the Bible works in the same way. And the Bible doesn't say you're going to hell for being circumcised.

Offline JT812

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #198 on: January 13, 2011, 05:58:23 PM »
I am a confessing believer in and follower of Jesus Christ and I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I would really like to know what's your biggest questions/concerns/problems etc. with God, specifically the God of the Bible. I may not be able to answer everything you say or ask, but I would love to do what I can.
Let's assume that I follow all the moral commandments required by god except believing in him, am I going to heaven or hell?
Hell. Because actions can't save you. That's the whole reason Jesus came. We are messed up sinful people who can't be with God, but he gave us a way to have our sins forgiven, which is sacrifice. And Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, allowing us to be saved through his grace if we choose to follow him. If we got into Heaven based on our actions we would all go to Hell.

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #199 on: January 13, 2011, 06:06:57 PM »
I am a confessing believer in and follower of Jesus Christ and I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I would really like to know what's your biggest questions/concerns/problems etc. with God, specifically the God of the Bible. I may not be able to answer everything you say or ask, but I would love to do what I can.

How can a person have a problem with something that they do not believe exists?

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Offline Alzael

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #200 on: January 13, 2011, 06:26:56 PM »
And the Bible doesn't say you're going to hell for being circumcised.

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing ... ye are fallen from grace." Galatian 5:2-4

I'm sure you have some alternate interpretation of this then? Since you have the superior biblical knowledge I'm sure you already knew about this and were just joking when you said it wasn't in there.

Here's what you need to understand about the Bible. It speaks in absolute statements. What I mean by that is it takes everything to one extreme and presents that idea. For example, in Proverbs 26:4 it says, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." But then immediately after that in verse 5 it says, "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes." At first, this may seem extremely contradicting, but obviously the author meant to write them both since they're right after each other. They are both true, but written as absolute statements. An English example is "Many hands make light work" and "Too many cooks spoil the broth". Both are true sometimes but each are written as absolute statements. So the Bible works in the same way.

So the bible isn't contradictory. It just says one thing and then says the exact opposite..........I think you might need a dictionary if we're going to continue this.

Leaving that aside however, there are four problems with this.

1)I wasn't quoting the same authors regarding salvation. I was quoting different verses from different books. So the author did not mean to write them both, one author gave one instruction, and then a second or third author gave a completely different instruction later.

2) You are not applying this to the criteria that was set out. My comment was about the exact instructions given on how to achieve salvation. "Too many cooks spoil the broth" is a folk proverb. Not an instruction from god. The instructions cannot both be true. You cannot hate the world and everything in it, yet love it. You cannot be fearful and yet without fear. None of this addresses the questions.

3)By your own admittance then, the bible is a useless book. If we're supposed to follow a large set of contradictory (and yes, that is the right word; look at your dictionary), then it simply becomes a matter of us making our own decisions about right and wrong anyways. After all, how are you to decide when you should hate the world, and when you should love it? Since you are required to do both and there are no instructions given on when to do which. Ultimately then it boils down to doing whichever one you want, whenever you want to do it. Which is no different from if you just ignored everything the book had to say.

4)You did not address anything that was said. I asked you which of these 100+ methods of salvation you are supposed to follow. Then cited specific means of salvation as examples, all of which you ignored. Instead you trotted out a bunch of old proverbs that have no bearing on the discussion. You didn't even address the initial post I quoted in the post before either. We are not discussing proverbs and folk sayings. We are discussing specific instructions regarding salvation and how they are to be followed.

You cannot have two absolute statements that are true and contradict each other. In fact you were asked how to resolve this conundrum, something else which you didn't do. You are dodging the issue, and not very well might I add. This doesn't address on anything said so far in the two posts.

Edit:As an addition, I should also point out that most of the methods for salvation are not contingent on simple faith and are matters which require you to perform certain actions. Since you claim that works aren't important, I'm guessing that this is why you ignored every detail of the issues that I raised.

Tell you what, let's play a game. You show a part of the bible that says that your position in the afterlife is determined on nothing more than faith. And for your one, I'll show you three that are based one either works or gods whim. Then we'll see who runs out first. (Hint:It won't be me.)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 07:34:56 PM by Alzael »
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Grogan

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #201 on: January 13, 2011, 07:04:48 PM »
Hell. Because actions can't save you. That's the whole reason Jesus came. We are messed up sinful people who can't be with God, but he gave us a way to have our sins forgiven, which is sacrifice. And Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, allowing us to be saved through his grace if we choose to follow him. If we got into Heaven based on our actions we would all go to Hell.

I'm sorry if this was covered, but am I to understand that you believe that original sin and by proxy Adam and Eve are historical figures that actually existed as accounted for in Genesis?
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You want to understand God and the world around you through science and logic alone and, because you cannot come up with a "reasonable" explanation for what they ate when leaving the ark, you dismiss it.

Offline Vivisectus

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Re: I'm a Christian Open to Questions
« Reply #202 on: January 13, 2011, 07:15:23 PM »
I have time for a short post  ;D
I'm sorry about the comments about people being close minded, hating god, etc, etc. I didn't mean everyone, I just meant some.

As a corollary to the questions above, out of the 100+ ways to salvation listed in the bible, which/how many of those methods are true? If they are all true, then how am I supposed to hate the world and everything in it (John 2:!5) and subsequently be a friend to it (James 4:4)? How am I supposed to fear god, yet not be fearful of anything? And why am I going to hell for being circumsized? I certainly didn't get any say in the matter on whether or not someone chopped off a piece of my genetalia as a baby. If I pray to god hard enough, will he glue the missing pieces back on to me so that I can get into heaven?

I want to be saved, so how do I do it?
Here's what you need to understand about the Bible. It speaks in absolute statements. What I mean by that is it takes everything to one extreme and presents that idea. For example, in Proverbs 26:4 it says, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." But then immediately after that in verse 5 it says, "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes." At first, this may seem extremely contradicting, but obviously the author meant to write them both since they're right after each other. They are both true, but written as absolute statements. An English example is "Many hands make light work" and "Too many cooks spoil the broth". Both are true sometimes but each are written as absolute statements. So the Bible works in the same way. And the Bible doesn't say you're going to hell for being circumcised.

Oh dear another Christian who doesn't know when and how the bible was written, and by whom. It is like giving a translation of "Moby Dick" to a hitherto isolated band of aboriginals, land-locked in the middle of Australia and asking them to come up with what it is about.
It is a foine loine between a poirate and a farrrmer. Oi stand astroid that foine loine.