There’s an old story about a man who gets a donkey and he wants it trained. ....The first thing the donkey trainer does is to whack it over the head with a baseball bat.....
Once the atheist starts sympathising with the concept of something like, 'Jesus might have risen from the dead but the witnesses were confused', acres of print and hours of education are lost.
A sharp tap on the head with a baseball bat....
WOW. I think I'm understanding how some of you guys tick a little better.
...."training" people like this is like a really lo-fi subtle version of brainwashing.
....and you're different from Christians because..........
Agnosticism isn't JUST an adjective. It can be used as an adjective, but that's not what I'm talking about.
(Wikipedia) Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable
(dictionary.com) Agnosticism ~NOUN
an intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge.
a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
I completely agree with what's said in regards to the adjective sense. ....but once again, that's not what I'm talking about.
Lets talk about the noun version of the word(s), since that's what I've implied all along.
Essentially, someone who's agnostic doesn't dismiss or accept "fill in the blank". The "why" is in the name.... they don't know. I would call this the true unbelief to the treatment analogy, just like I said its the true un-decision.
If you wanted to just play the adjective route, we're all agnostic. Being rigorously honest with ourselves, none of the theists really know there is a God, just like none of the atheists know there isn't a God. If you wanted to get super general with the adjective (like Ashe did with the "I'm a blue") then every human being that has ever lived is agnostic, at least in regards to something.
I guess the reason I'm getting some mixed messages is because I've heard statements "There is no God", "God is imaginary" and "God doesn't exist", etc. which I think are a belief, and as a drawn conclusion formed statement, need to hold true to the burden of proof. Here are some definitions from different sources, sans the examples and bolded why I still disagree with the belief/disbelief argument.
Some definitions of belief:
(Wikipedia)Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.
1.something believed; an opinion or conviction.
2.confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.
; faith; trust.
4.a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith.
(Webster) Belief, see BelieveIntransitive verb
1a : to have a firm religious faith b: to accept something as true, genuine, or real
2: to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something3: to hold an opinion : thinktransitive verb
1a : to consider to be true or honest b: to accept the word or evidence of2: to hold as an opinion : suppose
Maybe this is where things get complicated. In the religious, credence, faith-based definitions of the word, there's nothing even remotely atheistic about that. In the most general sense of the definition of the word "believe", you all have/hold an opinion on the existence of God.
This 37 second video is a good example at how that "belief" reasoning is extremely weak logic, if not fallible.