Hilarious Mailbag Pattern

[Hguols]

1) An unconventional perspective gets dumped into the den
2) 7+ people question and make remarks
3) Outsider replies (optional)
 4a) Newcomer eventually turns to personal attacks (perhaps accompanied with claims)
 - community retaliates personally, upon the eventuality (perhaps accompanied with claims)
 4b) Community members eventually turn to personal attacks (perhaps accompanied with claims)
 - newcomer retaliates personally, upon the eventuality (perhaps accompanied with claims)
5) 3+ people state to the outsider, "Oh is this overwhelming for you?", perhaps accompanied with a "I'm here to help you!"
6) The communal group attacks continue until the individual outsider leaves
7) Group high five when "another one bites the dust" (theory, not proven fact)

Ah, the joys of putting asunder! 

[JeffPT]

1) An unconventional perspective gets dumped into the den
2) 7+ people question and make remarks
3) Outsider replies (optional)
 3a) Community members eventually turn into personal attacks
 - newcomer retaliates personally, upon the eventuality
3b) Newcomer eventually turn into personal attacks
 

3a and 3b are very often reversed.  People get mad when their beliefs are questioned.  Newcomers feel overwhelmed by the high activity of the posters and they get defensive.  It happens a lot.  After 43 posts, I wouldn't expect you to see that. 

- 3+ people state, "Oh is this overwhelming for you?", perhaps accompanied with a "I'm here to help you!"

Sometimes more, sometimes less.  Depends how dumb the original perspective was.  A lot of us won't respond to posts that my 5 year old could refute.  See La7 for details. 

- the communal group attacks continue until the individual outsider leaves

Hmm, sort of.  If you substitute the word "and" for where you put the word "until", then maybe.

- group high five when "another one bites the dust" (theory, not proven fact)

Nope.  None of that.  The threads just die when we have nothing else to comment on. 

Heh.  Atheists pillage.

We don't generally pillage.  But we do eat babies.  I prefer barbecue. 

[jetson]

There is a pattern to the mailbag, but we don't typically take it all that seriously.  Every now and then it turns into a useful and good exchange.  Are you certain that your particular experience is typical?

[PostalGirl]

For the record, members are invited to respond to this thread. Not sure if few people are responding because they assume it'll be deleted anyway. It is a valid topic for discussion, in my opinion. Does Hguols have it right? Missing the point? Somewhere in between? Other? Nothing wrong with a little introspection. If anything, this is the place to work it out rather than in the middle of the Mailbag thread where it started.

[ParkingPlaces]

You left out one Hguols: Newcomer ignores thoughtful, responsible and non-combative posts because they're no fun.

[One Above All]

BM

[Alzael]

 4a) Newcomer eventually turns to personal attacks (perhaps accompanied with claims)
 - community retaliates personally, upon the eventuality (perhaps accompanied with claims)
 4b) Community members eventually turn to personal attacks (perhaps accompanied with claims)
 - newcomer retaliates personally, upon the eventuality (perhaps accompanied with claims)

Note the order at which this takes place.

5) 3+ people state to the outsider, "Oh is this overwhelming for you?", perhaps accompanied with a "I'm here to help you!"

You forgot the part after this where the newcomer ignores or spits back at the people legitimately offering help.

[Graybeard]

OK, the site is based upon the question, “WWGHA?” This attracted atheists as they realised a truth that supported their world view.

It also attracted godbotherers who came up with every possible excuse, deception, half-truth, circular argument, etc., known to man.

After a while the atheists saw that there was a repetition of apology from godbotherers and few ever post anything that is new. The atheists having learned the many, many refutations of gods were only too eager to impart knowledge to free those enslaved by religion – hence the enthusiasm. In the case of a godbotherer, the chances are that they are repeating an old tale.

Several members here try posting on Christian sites. Christian sites  have open season on atheists and ban them as soon as they even suspect opposition to an “all loving God” As in North Korea, opposition is not encouraged. Here, at WWGHA, even fervent godbotherers get their chance as long as they abide by the reasonable rules.

I don’t know about anyone else here, but if someone could give an argument that showed the presence or even a strong probability of a god anywhere or at any time, I personally would send their name to the Nobel Prize Committee. So far, I have not seen one argument that even approached sanity.

I hope this helps.

[abecedarian]

<snip> removed @ poster request. </snip>

[sammylama]

Read through the (other) thread...

Are we supposed to feel sorry for Hguols now?  Please.  He jumped in right away, blow-for-blow with the jabs he was getting.  Looks like he can take care of himself to me.  What's the point of this thread, anyway?  To prompt an actual conversation?  Look at the OP.  It's just another jab.  I don't see a "victim" here the way it's trying to be portrayed.

Do we pounce on the rampant stupidity that makes its way through the Mailbag?  Of course.  The subject matter is usually presented in such a laughable manner that it simply begs to be leveled. 

[jetson]

For the record, members are invited to respond to this thread. Not sure if few people are responding because they assume it'll be deleted anyway. It is a valid topic for discussion, in my opinion. Does Hguols have it right? Missing the point? Somewhere in between? Other? Nothing wrong with a little introspection. If anything, this is the place to work it out rather than in the middle of the Mailbag thread where it started.

I think it is a very valuable topic.  I was intimidated as an atheist when I first arrived here.  And I certainly do not approve of some of the attack mentality that occurs at times in certain threads.  When a theist arrives for the first time, they should not be expected to recognize immediately what is going on at this forum.  Which means that we have an opportunity to be better at welcoming, and helping some of them find their way around, and even become an integral part of the forum.

Now, mind you, I'm not saying that this should happen on every thread - because I openly admit that I am not always standing at a thread door with open arms! Tthere are threads where the OP doesn't deserve a response at all.  But maybe we can find ways to better discern the sincerity or ignorance of a newcomer, and try just a bit harder to help them acclimate before we get too deep into a topic.

I think one way to improve is to ask questions that help us better understand their theistic views, if it's not obvious.  And I'm sure there are other ways we can work to keep things from degenerating into pointless back and forth.

I don't think that Hguols has an accurate model of how it works, I think it is from his personal experience, and a rough sampling of some recent mailbag posts.  But maybe others, including the OP, can enlighten me on where I may be wrong?

[Nam]

The mailbag is a relaxing day at the beach.  Stop pissing in the sand.

-Nam

[Hguols]

I expected over-corrective, over-defensive egghead blah blah blah, but I was pleasantly surprised to find this little gem.

Dare I say it, Im just an old hippie - I had loads and loads of acid, me n my kids dad used to deal it  - it never fitted into whatever society deemed correct  but whenever I pretended to fit in with them, the somehow accepted me........... 

This brightened my day.  Thanks so much Trish!

You forgot the part after this where the newcomer ignores or spits back at the people legitimately offering help.

....and this is the great mystery to me.  (unless you're full of crap)

Why would an atheist help a Christian?  (as from what I've seen, most "God" believers referenced here are Christians)  They have no reason to help a Christian - it's illogical.  The "help" you're offering is useless, and they won't accept it because they just don't see it.

How many Christians have you discussed with, and they were like, "Oh, you're right.  God doesn't exist.".  Don't most of you, who were former theists, draw that from your own conclusion there is no God, than from some lunatic ranting and raving about "the truth"?  (an approach probably learned from preachers)

I mean, Christians are delusional people with imaginary friends.  Is it really the most sane thing to do, to rationalize with the insane?  Most of them have their mind set, and even the most brilliant points made against what they think are better accepted by a sack lunch with eyes drawn on the bag.  Since I'm one of those delusional God believers, I might as well be lumped into the Christian stereotype.  (won't make a difference either way) 

I think part of it is they don't see atheism so much as not believing, but believing against.  I traverse around this forum, and I see more derogatory posts about Christians, Jesus, and a huge amount of Christian bashing.  Hell, quite a bit of it is funny actually.  I can laugh at my beliefs being made fun of.  There's less laughing with those beliefs being attacked, none at all with personal attacks.

....but it doesn't say much to outsiders for someone (who lives up to the atheist "label") to have a huge this association with mocking imaginary friends, and delusional people with imaginary friends.  I'm just in awe at a group that spends so much time on what they don't believe is true.  For the Bible and other religious books being utter rubbish, they sure are studied a lot, even in active atheism.  Why?  To prove how MORE wrong it is? 

Even though there is no genuine proof of, or proof against, the whole lot of you here have drawn your own conclusion.  ....and put a lot of effort in why.  I can respect that.  Mocking and attacking to the side, since when does a system deeply rooted in apologetics change world views? 

"Christians are responsible for violence, threatening eternal lives, bunk laws, banning science from schools, ad infinitum".  Don't you guys think if maybe you stopped acting like a rebellious clique, that maybe you could make an impact and change this place for the better?

I've never listened to a debate happy ranting lunatic, no matter how "true" he was, but if someone cared and was sincere in their heart, (with a tactful approach) you're damn right I (and probably a few others) would have a completely different attitude about all of this.

[sammylama]

Don't most of you, who were former theists, draw that from your own conclusion there is no God, than from some lunatic ranting and raving about "the truth"?  (an approach probably learned from preachers)

Actually, yes.  In my case, you are correct...although I would never profess to have a full grip on "the truth." 

[ParkingPlaces]

Having had spittle fly all over my face by a christian telling me I was going to hell because I am an atheist, I tend appreciate being able to find a place I can mingle with my own.

Yea, I should have punched her out, but she looked like you from the back, and besides, she was 70.

I hope you're not surprised that there are places on the web where atheists congregate. There are congregations of flat earthers, bigfoot lovers, perverts, trekkies and recovering WWF addicts. And for you to think that a bunch of like-minded folk who don't believe in god would treat all religious comers as yet another breathe of fresh air would be naive. Many in the mailbag (oh how we missed it when it was gone) show up fully expecting that their 1.5 paragraph post will convert the lot of us on the spot. And many get pissed quick when that doesn't happen.

We have learned to expect a huge range of possible personality types when new christians show up. And yes, we have some members who are more combative than others. So while some of us might be demonstrably polite, others sometimes attack with their verbal baseball bats. We atheists seldom strike the first blow, but we're pretty good on ganging up on folks who do their best to diss us.

Other christians show up and demonstrate both intelligence and understanding. Enough so that we have relatively sane conversations for awhile. Most disappear fairly quickly, for reasons not always clear. I tend to assume that when they realize they probably won't convert anyone, they go elsewhere.

As a bunch of independent thinkers, I think we are fairly moderate in our behavior. As has been mentioned before, most christian websites won't tolerate atheists at all and ban them the moment they are identified. We ban only the grossest of our believers, who do nothing but preach and yell. We are not governed by anyone and I have no idea who the moderators are, other than I assume many of them are old-timers on the site. I, for one, show up, have some fun, and return when I have the time. This last few weeks I've had lots of time and it's cold outside, so here I sit.

That we've irked you and you've stuck around either means we're lousy irkers or you're a glutton for punishment. I've no idea which. And since you have never responded directly to any of my posts, I assume you won't respond to this one. But being ignored won't shut me up.

Oh yea, I wanted to comment on this that you said:

I'm just in awe at a group that spends so much time on what they don't believe is true. 

It's not the no-god part that has us spend time here. It is the effect of people who think otherwise on our lives and our world that we are here to discuss. The no-god thing is a hobby. The "I hate your guts because you don't look at my god with awe and reverence" crowd is who we are more concerned with.

Oops, forgot who I was talking to. Let me rephrase that.

It's not the no-god part that has ME spend time here. It is the effect of people who think otherwise in MY life and MY world that I am here to discuss. The no-god thing is a hobby. The "I hate your guts because you don't look at my god with awe and reverence" crowd is who I am more concerned with.

Right guys? 

edit: Fixed spelling problem. My computer is so stupid.

[kindred]

@ OP

Personally, I celebrate the fact that I need one less fancifull bullshit crutch than most people. I also mock the people that DO need the crutch.

In the end, I feel better and get entertained with little to no cost.

[MadBunny]

Why would an atheist help a Christian?  (as from what I've seen, most "God" believers referenced here are Christians)  They have no reason to help a Christian - it's illogical.  The "help" you're offering is useless, and they won't accept it because they just don't see it.

How many Christians have you discussed with, and they were like, "Oh, you're right.  God doesn't exist.".  Don't most of you, who were former theists, draw that from your own conclusion there is no God, than from some lunatic ranting and raving about "the truth"?  (an approach probably learned from preachers)

I mean, Christians are delusional people with imaginary friends.  Is it really the most sane thing to do, to rationalize with the insane?  Most of them have their mind set, and even the most brilliant points made against what they think are better accepted by a sack lunch with eyes drawn on the bag.  Since I'm one of those delusional God believers, I might as well be lumped into the Christian stereotype.  (won't make a difference either way) 

I think part of it is they don't see atheism so much as not believing, but believing against.  I traverse around this forum, and I see more derogatory posts about Christians, Jesus, and a huge amount of Christian bashing.  Hell, quite a bit of it is funny actually.  I can laugh at my beliefs being made fun of.  There's less laughing with those beliefs being attacked, none at all with personal attacks.

....but it doesn't say much to outsiders for someone (who lives up to the atheist "label") to have a huge this association with mocking imaginary friends, and delusional people with imaginary friends.  I'm just in awe at a group that spends so much time on what they don't believe is true.  For the Bible and other religious books being utter rubbish, they sure are studied a lot, even in active atheism.  Why?  To prove how MORE wrong it is? 

I noticed this.

Why wouldn't an Atheist want to help a Theist?  The only difference between the two of us is the Theists faith in an unknown.  As many different kinds of people that exist as theists, exist as non-theists, meaning you'll find kind, cruel, considerate, spiteful, generous, stingy atheists just like you would with theists.  Personally I think that there are less theists than we like to imagine, I suspect that most people are merely 'social theists', or 'cafeteria catholics'.

I can't speak for others here, but when I talk to my friends my goal isn't to convert them or change them.  If anything simply using critical thinking where it comes to things like the bible is enough to stop most theists from treating it as if it were literal. (see: Noah's Ark, most of the Old Testament, and most of the New Testament)

It bears noting that many of the people who participate on the forums here used to be theists, some of them were quite heavily invested personally with their various churches.

[Gnu Ordure]

ParkingPlaces:

We are not governed by anyone and I have no idea who the moderators are, other than I assume many of them are old-timers on the site.

The moderators are current members; they have one account as a member, and another account as a moderator.

[Agga]

Definite bookmark.

[Graybeard]

@ OP

Personally, I celebrate the fact that I need one less fancifull bullshit crutch than most people. I also mock the people that DO need the crutch.

In the end, I feel better and get entertained with little to no cost.

This is exactly as God foretold: John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

You are doing The Lord's Work. 

[kin hell]

bm

[monkeymind]

This is the WWGHA forum not the WWJD forum.
 
It should be pretty obvious to reasonable people what the forum is here for and how it operates. Unreasonable persons have a tendency to weed themselves out rather quickly.

Anyone who has seen the videos, or read the rules and spent a little time reading through the various threads, should be able to find a way to fit in (if they really want to).

Muscles and beards aside, the one who survives WWGHA is not necessarily the fittest, but who has the most adaptable traits.

[Agga]

Muscles and beards aside, the one who survives WWGHA is not necessarily the fittest, but who has the most adaptable traits.

Bravo. Nicely put.

[Hguols]

Having had spittle fly all over my face by a christian telling me I was going to hell because I am an atheist, I tend appreciate being able to find a place I can mingle with my own.

What's the ratio of theists here to atheists?  10 to 1?  15 to 1?  While the spittle factor isn't here on forums, a majority against a minority they're different from, does have noticeable friction, especially to the minority.

A theist on an atheist board for example, or an atheist showing up on a theist board, a barbecue champion on a vegan board, a dog being brought to a cat show, the list goes on....

Yea, I should have punched her out, but she looked like you from the back, and besides, she was 70.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  I would have fucking hit her anyway.  (just kidding mods - cut this part out if you want) ^_^

I hope you're not surprised that there are places on the web where atheists congregate. There are congregations of flat earthers, bigfoot lovers, perverts, trekkies and recovering WWF addicts. And for you to think that a bunch of like-minded folk who don't believe in god would treat all religious comers as yet another breathe of fresh air would be naive. Many in the mailbag (oh how we missed it when it was gone) show up fully expecting that their 1.5 paragraph post will convert the lot of us on the spot. And many get pissed quick when that doesn't happen.

I'm certainly not surprised.  Honestly, my introduction to this site has to do with some videos I watched that were embedded on another forum.  I didn't know it was proclaimed atheist material from looking at it - I just thought it was someone who had a problem with Christianity.  (which I can relate to, even a lot of Christians have a problem with Christianity.)

I wrote my e-mail basically giving my answer to the name of the site.  (I mean, it was in question format on the video) 
I read that the e-mail could be posted on the forums, but I assumed they probably wouldn't bother with it. 

What doesn't make sense to me is the mailbag has debate rules, but I'd say a good portion of original posts don't follow them.  (like making a claim, they should be backed up.)  Why should they?  They've contributed to the forum without even stepping foot on it.  I'm sure e-mails are weeded out to a certain extent, but if I would have known I was required to have a foundation for my claims, I would have either made a more air-tight post, or not even bothered with it.

We have learned to expect a huge range of possible personality types when new christians show up. And yes, we have some members who are more combative than others. So while some of us might be demonstrably polite, others sometimes attack with their verbal baseball bats. We atheists seldom strike the first blow, but we're pretty good on ganging up on folks who do their best to diss us.

I'd like to consider myself polite until provoked.  Easily provoked perhaps, and I'm not going to minimize that.  As mentioned before, if it's not the tone of the posts, it's the hypocrisy in comparison to real life.

Perhaps if it were face to face, politeness would be easier to maintain, because of external factors. 

Point being, I can not only get along with atheists, but get along with them here.  I see no problem with you, or the mods saving you guys from me, and a few others like Rev45 and PianoDrawf were extremely pleasant to talk to. 

It's just the ones I butt heads with that make headlines.

Other christians show up and demonstrate both intelligence and understanding. Enough so that we have relatively sane conversations for awhile. Most disappear fairly quickly, for reasons not always clear. I tend to assume that when they realize they probably won't convert anyone, they go elsewhere.

Maybe it's lack of common interest?  I'm just throwing out my guess. 

I mean what does a barbecue champion at a vegan forum really want there?  He knows he's in the wrong locale, if not when he shows up, he knows it after a few posts at least.  Not only interest, but overall disadvantages. 

I'm a theist, outnumbered by atheists.  There's that disadvantage.
I don't have much refining in apologetics.  There's another disadvantage.  Probably because most of the people around me believe the same or similar, or that I could lift the front end of their car, I've never really felt the need to have claims/evidence for my faith.
I know I've had some outlandish behavior here, but from what I've observed, there is some small amount (I probably am minimizing) bias from the authorities here.  I've been reprimanded for something other members have done right back to me, while they weren't even (publicly) notified (to my knowledge).

...I'll take full responsibility for the first two disadvantages though...   and mods aren't perfect.  Certainly no hard feelings about that, and I don't take the job someone tries to do personally.

As a bunch of independent thinkers, I think we are fairly moderate in our behavior. As has been mentioned before, most christian websites won't tolerate atheists at all and ban them the moment they are identified. We ban only the grossest of our believers, who do nothing but preach and yell. We are not governed by anyone and I have no idea who the moderators are, other than I assume many of them are old-timers on the site. I, for one, show up, have some fun, and return when I have the time. This last few weeks I've had lots of time and it's cold outside, so here I sit.

Me and Death over Life are friends on another forum, a Christian based one.  While it's actually a specific hobby/entertainment forum for Christians, there is the theology section.  We both mentioned it to the mods and community there.  Someone here posted they wanted to check that forum out.  A couple people there there thought it would be a bad idea. 

This forum's cool - you wouldn't be banned for being a non-believer, but I have yet to see an atheist that wasn't at least borderline aggressive with their "points" and "claims". 

...and that wouldn't last long there, or anywhere except forums with similar correlations actually.  Who else really wants to argue about that?
._.

That we've irked you and you've stuck around either means we're lousy irkers or you're a glutton for punishment. I've no idea which. And since you have never responded directly to any of my posts, I assume you won't respond to this one. But being ignored won't shut me up.

Yay!  Your reverse psychology worked! 

I think its a little bit of both - of the lousy irkers and me being a glutton for punishment.  I think some of you have NO IDEA how to handle people like me, and as much as it irritates me, it also amuses me.  I'm hoping its at least a little bit mutual in that feeling.

Unless some of you stand to post here, I hope this doesn't cause you soil your seats....   for my job, I'm actually a CIT.  (Counselor in training)  I'm not certified yet, as that takes a few years, but I'm on my way.  I've been an "adviser" for years though. 

I actually veered more toward the confrontations a bit, because there's more of an outlet for me.  The only way this could be better was if I had a punching bag in front of me.  After all, I can't, don't and won't directly or indirectly insult clients.  (I'll lump passive aggressive head games in there as well, as they can be every bit as damaging as insults)

My boss thinks I'm wasting my time here with "those people", but eh.  If I found it pointless to be here, I wouldn't be here.

It's not the no-god part that has us spend time here. It is the effect of people who think otherwise on our lives and our world that we are here to discuss. The no-god thing is a hobby. The "I hate your guts because you don't look at my god with awe and reverence" crowd is who we are more concerned with.

Oops, forgot who I was talking to. Let me rephrase that.

It's not the no-god part that has ME spend time here. It is the effect of people who think otherwise in MY life and MY world that I am here to discuss. The no-god thing is a hobby. The "I hate your guts because you don't look at my god with awe and reverence" crowd is who I am more concerned with.

Right guys? 

edit: Fixed spelling problem. My computer is so stupid.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!   Damn right it's "you" not "us"!  I've been stating some of my escapades here on the other forums.  I actually didn't notice all the "we" and "us" statements until someone pointed it out to me, and handed me a list of how many "group statements" are made.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, to "sound like a damn hive".  (as that person put it)  It doesn't give the "independent thinkers" statement you made much weight though.

Side note, what does "bm" mean?

[voodoo child]

hey Hguols,

When I first came here, I just wanted to know why some people threw their mind out the window for a belief in the complete unknown. I have spent all my life ignoring religion, not interesting to me at all. Now I am up to my neck in it.

My step son was an intelligent well rounded individual with great athletic and artistic abilities. With some help and practice his artistic or athletic abilities could have given him a living.
 
He suddenly flushed all of that down the toilet two years ago, to become a preacher.
And guess whose helping to pay for that crap… 67 thousand for four years of bible collage?  fuck anyone can study the bible for free.!

Now, when I talk to him its like listening to a broken record that I have heard so often.   
I highly doubt that anyone on this forum could change his mind. because what it really boils down to is, fear of the unknown.  He feels a great deal of fear within himself.

Not to mention he feels my mind is being controlled by the devil himself, even though my money is alleviating his fear…
Fuck, I had no idea how deep one could crawl down a rabbit hole.

Hope you get a perspective on how allot of atheists think, if anything we our all very different.

Wtf someone give me some karma or am I that bad of a writer?   As stubby mechanic fingers hunt and peck unfamiliar button device. 

just noticed karma score card gone. 

[monkeymind]

BM is for Book Mark.

[Agga]

H-daaawg,

+1 (pseudo) for being the most fun christian I've ever seen on the forum. In a lot of ways you remind me of myself when I was a christian.

I can see what you're saying in this thread and, for the most part, I tend to agree with a lot (not all) of what you're saying.

I find a few of the atheists here to apply such a rigid double-standard that it has, on occasion, made me feel ashamed to be a part of the community. I often see atheists provoke hostile responses from theists and get away with it while the theist is busted for responding in kind.
Then again, this is an atheist forum. That said, many atheists here are moderated for being too mean to theists, so the door does swing both ways.

I don't like intellectual snobbery. Never have and never will. There's too much of it flying around here for my liking and, frankly, at times, I fantasise about punching some of those snot-noses into the back of their heads. But I suppose that’s another story.


I mean, you're right in what you say. The ratio is daunting.
A few months ago I tried an experiment where I set up a thread and tried to defend my old beliefs from a christian perspective. Basically, I pretended to be a Christian and several atheists tried to argue with me to prove me wrong.

I kid you not, it traumatised me so much, literally, that I had to spend a few weeks off of the forum to get over it! It was bloody hard work trying to keep up with so many atheists demanding answers and creating lots of very long posts for me to respond to. Never mind the fact that my arguments were ripped apart and stomped on, it was just so hard trying to keep up with all the replies.


Some people didn't realise what was going on and actually thought I was a christian, so they were pretty rude to me.
Here's the hypocrisy: the moment they cottoned on that it was just an exercise, they started being nice to me again elsewhere on the forum. I no longer speak to those members.

It really is very, very hard to keep up when you're outnumbered on this forum.

I don't agree with anything you say about god, obviously, and I may not agree with the way you've handled yourself in every single post, but I have respect for you like no other christian who's arrived here because, well, you're just a normal, down to Earth fella. Warts and all. You're not perfect, and neither are any of the atheists here.

My gut tells me that if you stick around you'll be hounded and be given a hard time over your beliefs (if that's all you talk to us about). My gut also says that you could work out how things work around here and make contributions that aren't always focused on your god-belief and, I, for one, would like to see them.


Cheers mate.

[Ashe]

How many Christians have you discussed with, and they were like, "Oh, you're right.  God doesn't exist.".  Don't most of you, who were former theists, draw that from your own conclusion there is no God, than from some lunatic ranting and raving about "the truth"?  (an approach probably learned from preachers)

I should point out that this forum, or at least this forum when it was the old forum, has indeed converted theists. It may not be one single post that flips the switch, but every post, every small bit of information, chips away at the dam. It's been interesting.

Also, to make a more general point, there hasn't been any other place online that has taught me more about science and theology than right here. We're not here solely to bash theism, although I suppose that's fun. This is a community with some ridiculously smart people who have made me think twice about all sorts of issues that stretch beyond whether God exists or hates gays or pants or whatever.

[Seppuku]

It's not common that we do get people coming in here with a level of disrespect, the people I don't like are those that come in here with a superior attitude and for me, it works both sides, so it does bother me a bit when I see an atheist making an attempt at being superior, of course, here, we do hear the same thing over and over and I can see people losing their patience. But I suppose patience is a virtue and it's better to explain to people the issue rather than snap at them, I know some have their own methods and prefer to use sarcasm to deliver a point. But the style in which the forum works is that it can get very heated, of course, it makes it difficult for many theists and I think this is where talk of the overwhelming threads comes in. I think the moderators have recognised the problem, as well as the members and there is a solution, which I spoke a little about in your Mailbag thread.

I don't doubt that we have some folk on this forum that try to be harsh, I don't know whether it's for self satisfaction (high-fives as you say), being cruel to be kind or thinking they're being cruel to be kind. But I think it's worth taking it all with a pinch of salt. I've not seen people actively making high-fives and I think many members want theists who engage with the forum. That in itself can be a difficulty because many don't engage with the forum positively and do break a lot of rules along the way. Mods give them fair warning and try to point them in the right direction, when they don't they get sent to ER in order to correct any issues and a lot of them end up getting banned because they either: don't accept the rules or refuse to admit they've broken them, here, it pays to at least be able to back up points you've made. Some just want to preach the word of God and enlighten us, many people, especially with the backgrounds they've had, take such action to be insulting. When you think of places in America, like along the bible belt, atheists are persecuted by people who want to 'enlighten' them, there are atheists here who have perhaps faced persecution. We had a member on here who actually faced physical abuse from his father because he came out as an atheist. So certain behaviour can be taken personal. Of course, that's no excuse to whip out a can of whoop-ass on a theist who brings faulty logic. 

Also, I don't think some of the people you've clashed with have been trying to clash with you, I'll name one name, Screwtape, I've been on the receiving end of his posts and when I was new, I misinterpreted his attitude greatly, insults were passed (I probably threw the first). I think once you get to know some people around here, your views might change of them. From my perspective, yes, he makes points bluntly, but he's actually trying to be helpful. Sorry I named a name, but I thought I'd put an example out there. Now he's going to think I'm licking his arse...and well it all tastes shit. 


So I do agree with and understand some of the things you're saying, so I say stick around, learn how things work here and you might have a positive experience. Speaking of which, I wonder what ever happened to Old Church Guy? (He was like the token theist regular everybody got along with)