Author Topic: What is Trump doing.......  (Read 1061 times)

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2017, 07:20:15 PM »
Trump doesn't care about the Republican agenda, while Pence apparently does.  Trump is willing to go along with it as long as the Republicans toe his line, but he doesn't really care about it, so it isn't being pushed all that hard.  But if Pence became president, he would be pushing it.  That's why I think he would be worse.  It's not that I think he's a worse person than Trump, but his policies and politics would be worse because of his ideology and the fact that he would be pretty vigorous in pursuing it - in trying to make reality conform to it, in other words.
I'm extrapolating here:
a) it is more likely that people will be disenfranchised and hurt under a Pence presidency vs. a Trump presidency
b) more people will likely be disenfranchised and hurt under a Pence presidency vs. a Trump presidency

Would at least one of those be correct, in your opinion?  If so that's where I think we digress.  I am of the opinion that it is more likely that people will be disenfranchised and hurt under a Trump presidency vs. a Pence presidency.  Trump's disregard for, well, damn near everything that isn't praise be to him poses a more likely manifest danger than Pence's convictions of ideology.  Pence will push with more fervor but could, in principle, be persuaded to change course.  I'm not saying that such changes must come from a place of integrity, i.e. he could change course simply to 'save face for his political career' or somesuch.  But it could in principle be done.

It seems like that would be a nigh-impossible task in Trump's case.  He doubles down on claims that can, quite easily, be shown to be utterly false, and will continue making decisions and taking actions based on those claims.  It is ridiculous, and it is a little scary.  If he gets it in his head to blatantly oppress an entire group of people for, well, whatever the hell reasons he has in his head, he'll puke out a narrative that constructs a justification for that oppression and emotionally rally his support base via fear-mongering and promises of streets of gold.

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The problem is, reality has a way of not conforming to any particular ideology.  So unless the ideology can deal with the curveballs that reality regularly chucks, it'll cause more problems than it's worth.  And when you get right down to it, I don't think Pence's can.  Not just because of unsupported and unsupportable assumptions, but because of the things which he holds which actually run contrary to reality, like his beliefs on abortion and homosexuality.

See, to me, that tells me that it is possible to construct roadblocks against actual implementation of detrimental ideology in a way that you can't make roadblocks with Trump and his stream of consciousness arrogance-driven non-agenda.

This opinion, by the by, is highly speculative obviously and it's rather difficult to separate my assessment of the situation from my emotionally-charged disgust for Trump as a human being, and I have to incorporate my higher brain-functions to convince myself that it is correct and appropriate to refer to him as a human being.  That's how strong my disgust for him is at this moment.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2017, 07:54:03 PM »
To put it another way, jdawg:  Trump has vulnerabilities that Pence does not, and the fact that he tries to double down on things where he's been opposed doesn't work so well now that he's president.  So Trump is more likely, at least in my opinion, to be ineffectual than Pence would be, and he's also more likely to waste time fighting losing battles out of egotistical pride.  Not to mention that if that goes on long enough, Republicans will start to break with him for reasons of political survival.

The very fact that you're being driven so strongly by your disgust for Trump is a case in point for this.
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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2017, 10:00:32 AM »
Trump might be ineffectual, but he's running through bits of instant dumb legislation, like enabling coal companies to dump shit into rivers. He's gagged FDA, CDC, EPA, because he doesn't like scientists. He's got dossiers on people involved in climate change, within government, so he can sack them.

The leaks are real, but the news is fake.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2017, 11:10:49 AM »
Trump might be ineffectual, but he's running through bits of instant dumb legislation, like enabling coal companies to dump shit into rivers. He's gagged FDA, CDC, EPA, because he doesn't like scientists. He's got dossiers on people involved in climate change, within government, so he can sack them.

The leaks are real, but the news is fake.

I agree with  jaimehlers assessment above, however, Trump can still produce major damage, it will be as caustic but from a different reference point. I guess it is a matter of preferences which areas one decides is less caustic.

Edit: Both scare the be jeepers out of me.
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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2017, 10:50:31 AM »
What makes you see that Pence would be worse than Trump in a lot of respects jaime? First time I've ever heard anybody say that, so couldn't help but be curious.

Pence was formerly the governor of Indiana until he was tapped to be Trump's running mate. His performance as governor seems like a damn good indication of what he would like to do on th national stage. He's regressive in ways that Trump isn't - Trump is a con man, Pence seems to truly believe he is acting on his God's behalf. THAT'S fucking scary.

Look up the Facebook group Periods for Politicians.  ;D

Thanks for all that Jag. Can appreciate why you find that scary! Will check that out when I next can!

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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2017, 10:54:04 AM »
What makes you see that Pence would be worse than Trump in a lot of respects jaime? First time I've ever heard anybody say that, so couldn't help but be curious.
Trump doesn't care about the Republican agenda, while Pence apparently does.  Trump is willing to go along with it as long as the Republicans toe his line, but he doesn't really care about it, so it isn't being pushed all that hard.  But if Pence became president, he would be pushing it.  That's why I think he would be worse.  It's not that I think he's a worse person than Trump, but his policies and politics would be worse because of his ideology and the fact that he would be pretty vigorous in pursuing it - in trying to make reality conform to it, in other words.

The problem is, reality has a way of not conforming to any particular ideology.  So unless the ideology can deal with the curveballs that reality regularly chucks, it'll cause more problems than it's worth.  And when you get right down to it, I don't think Pence's can.  Not just because of unsupported and unsupportable assumptions, but because of the things which he holds which actually run contrary to reality, like his beliefs on abortion and homosexuality.

Appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that.

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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2017, 09:02:24 AM »
Which left wing bubble commentators on youtube are you drifting towards?

I started with TYT, but have drifted to David Pakman, Jimmy Dore, GQ. Colbert is also amusing.

This is how the Dems are planning to lose the next one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XZiZ3YR8gI

This is GQ taking the piss out of Spicer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_H_wiI46D8

David Pakman, handling Milo's death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlsbdxOV2yQ&t=2s

GQ being serious as usual
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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 10:28:29 AM »
I was just watching a Rachel Maddow monologue on how after the Nixon scandal, they made a law that only 4 people could mess with the justice department. Then during the Bush era they broke all that, and made it so everyone and his dog could mess with justice. Then there was a big scandal, and they have to put it back to 4. Rancid Preibus went and phoned up the FBI and leaned on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qft97GKiF4
https://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/fbi-rats-out-reince-priebus-for-obstructing-justice-over-donald-trumps-russia-scandal/1643/

The Bannon presidency is also dead set on dismantling the EPA.

I think the reason Pence could be less harmful than a continued Trumpency is that Pence might know the laws. Whereas the Trumpidency breaks laws and destroys things so fast, that nobody can keep up.
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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 10:36:28 AM »
And aint it great that Milo fell on his sword. No more putting up with that little shit.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 12:48:39 PM »
And aint it great that Milo fell on his sword. No more putting up with that little shit.

Have a feeling he'll eventually resurface as a re-made man. His caustic doctrine is too difficult for the far right to let slough away.
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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 03:09:33 PM »
Milo has an interesting position, defender of the extreme right and a very gay untraditional guy. How does he do it?
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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 09:21:54 PM »
If you have a gay guy calling gays faggots, and transgender people mentally ill, the right likes it.

Ultimately, a problem for the right is that Milo is not all that right. He is a free speech defender, and to do that he has to say offensive things. The easiest offensive things are supplied by the right, because they harbour no minorities.
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 11:28:44 PM »
Getting ever closer to a dictatorship, Trump barred certain news organizations from the latest press briefing.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9d04bb7ccf60468987c582b4ee9c7e24/white-house-bars-major-news-outlets-media-gaggle
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #71 on: Today at 12:23:46 AM »
I have the feeling that this is going to backfire on Trump pretty badly.  The news media in general is willing to put up with a lot, but I don't think they're willing to put up with a president showing such blatant favoritism.  And when you get right down to it, the outlets that were excluded aren't likely to roll over just so they can suck hind teat again.
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Re: What is Trump doing.......
« Reply #72 on: Today at 05:09:57 AM »
Was America great, when the Gerrymandering favoured Democrats?

When was the great period?
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.