An Impression

[Nam]

I get the impression that when religious people meet me, find that I'm not such a nice guy, and then find out I'm an atheist that, in their minds, it then becomes understandable. As if all atheists are assholes.

I read this in the news, I read it here, people I know personally think this. The point is: am I to turn around and judge them the same way for people like those in the Westboro Church, or the racist, sexist, bigoted, etc., people in their varying religions?

It'd be only fair, no?

Don't people get that we are who we are absent of being religious or non-religious? That; though non-belief or even belief can have an impact on who we may become, it isn't the embodiment of who we are? There are a bevy of things that go into it. Atheism and/or theism is a tool, in my opinion.

Like politicians: are they all automatically liars just because they're politicians? Yes, a great deal of them seem to be liars but is that all who they are? Are we to judge them solely based on that,

Lawyers are in a not so good light. Are we to judge a person solely based on them being lawyers?

Are all rich people greedy? Are all poor people on welfare or trash?

-Nam

[nogodsforme]

On the other hand, when people meet me and find that I am a pretty nice person who loves puppies, is kind to children, cares for crotchety elderly relatives, etc; they cannot accept that I am also an atheist. (I suppose the same would happen if I was a politician or a lawyer.) 

They think I must be a closet Christian or something, because only the Jesus crackers can make anyone be nice to crochety old people. I have an African colleague who says without Christianity, he would kill white people for what they did in his country. I think he should keep on eating the Jesus crackers if that is what it takes to stay out of prison. 

[Quesi]

Yeah.  I'm a good deed doer, so people just assume I'm religious.  Generally, I guess, they assume I'm Christian.  I was chatting with an acquaintance a couple of months ago, and talking about child rearing, and I don't know how the conversation took a turn, but he asked me something about the beliefs and values that I was raising my daughter with. 

I said that I am raising her with secular values.

He looked STUNNED.  Courteous.  But stunned. 

[Schizoid]

I understand what you are saying.  Many religious believers have a construct of what they think an atheist should be like.  If they meet an atheist who however poorly fits within their perceived parameters of what an atheist is like it only serves to confirm their opinion, no matter how prejudiced, of atheists.

My situation is different from yours.  I work for a Christian organization, but only my immediate supervisor and coworker knows I am an atheist.  Frankly, when he learned he could not believe it because like many believers he had a preconceived notion of what an atheist is and it pretty much was not good and I did not fit his stereotype of an atheist.  He has told me I am the most Christ-like and moral atheist he has ever known, but I don't think he has known many atheists to make a comparison.

We have many good talks and he is rather fascinated with my point of view.  Even though he is an evangelical he does not try to change my beliefs and since I'm not an evangelical atheist I do not try and change his.  I do make him think, though, and at least he thinks better of atheists.  I know he believes I am a better person than many who call themselves Christians.

Stereotypes, it saves on having to think.

[Nam]

I'm a social person, believe it or not. When it comes to people's rights: all people should have equal rights whether religious, or not. When I was in the workplace I would speak up to management concerning ill-treatment towards employees. I've even stood up to a cop once when I felt he was treating someone poorly in front of me.

People tend to think such an attitude conflicts with me being the way I am but I don't think so, I think in some ways, it may strengthen me in confrontations.

To Schizoid,

my first job was at YMCA but they didn't know I was an atheist. I was a Child Counsellor, and they most likely would've fired me on the spot if they knew. But I wouldn't have cared, they weren't very moral in paying people what they hired them for (CC's made, at the time $7.25 an hour and they were paying those of us with that position under 18 $4.25)

-Nam

[Schizoid]

To Schizoid,

my first job was at YMCA but they didn't know I was an atheist. I was a Child Counsellor, and they most likely would've fired me on the spot if they knew. But I wouldn't have cared, they weren't very moral in paying people what they hired them for (CC's made, at the time $7.25 an hour and they were paying those of us with that position under 18 $4.25)

-Nam

I work for a homeless shelter, the one with the red kettles.  I must say, considering that it is run by a religious organization there really is not much religion other than a quick prayer at the meals.  I'd have to say that I'm liked and respected (I've never been called "sir" so many times in my life, not only by coworkers but also by residents) well enough that I don't think it would make a difference if it was widely known that I am an atheist.  Some might be very surprised though.  Overall they are a good bunch of people to work with.

[Nam]

Hey, I liked my co-workers, and even the Director but my particular boss who was in charge of my department, and had Jesus plastered all over his wall (his family picture on the shelf next to books where you really had to look to see) and who paid those of under 18 less than what we were supposed to get an hour, and was an egotistical douche, was immoral.

-Nam

[Seppuku]

To be honest I get sick of the stereotype "atheists=arseholes", yes some are, some have no regrets being dicks towards religious folks or being generally dismissive, but it's silly when in my head I'm thinking of how I might alter a person's expectation of me, if I say I'm an atheist, would that somehow be provocative? Or would I have to use a modifier, "I'm an atheist, but I'm not intolerant of religious people", which is ridiculous think to think. Outside of the internet, here in the UK, it's not so bad really, nobody's going to care if I say, "I'm an atheist", at least most of the time. Heck, I might say, "I'm an atheist agnostic Buddhist", that one gives puzzled looks. At least it means I can justify it to them or just amuse myself in the fact they're extremely confused.

However, I know people who would prefer to refer themselves as agnostic, as to know come off as a provocative, but 'atheism' ISN'T provocative. An example, my mum said to me, "I'm not an atheist", so I asked her, "do you believe in the existence of any gods?" to which she replied, "no" and I said, "you're an atheist". Done that one to friends as well. You don't have to be an arsehole to be an atheist. But if you want to be an arsehole, well, it's your own perogative.

[Schizoid]

This reminds me of a guy I knew with the nickname of "Tiny"--of course he was 6'4", heavy with a shaved head, belonged to a motorcycle gang, was an alcoholic, and a jerk.

Then he went to AA and got sober and the now dry Tiny was, a jerk.  That's because Tiny, dry or sober, was a jerk.

[Nam]

Yep. We are who we are even without the crutches.

-Nam

[nogodsforme]

This reminds me of a guy I knew with the nickname of "Tiny"--of course he was 6'4", heavy with a shaved head, belonged to a motorcycle gang, was an alcoholic, and a jerk.

Then he went to AA and got sober and the now dry Tiny was, a jerk.  That's because Tiny, dry or sober, was a jerk.

I knew a guy like that, former Hell's Angel who became a teaching assistant where I worked. He was still a scary-looking tattooed biker, only he carried a huge ostentatious bible around with him everywhere. At first I thought he was cool, because he had turned his life around and was trying to help others.  But instead of beating up people with his fists, he was now beating them over the head with his new-found religious faith.

I actually got into some religious arguments with him, because he was so in-your-face with the students. And he was a jerk--never could support anything he said. He favorite non-answer was, "I can't explain it-- I just believe it." 

[Willie]

I actually got into some religious arguments with him, because he was so in-your-face with the students. And he was a jerk--never could support anything he said. He favorite non-answer was, "I can't explain it-- I just believe it." 

It's not much of an answer, but at least it's honest. I wish more religious people would fess-up to that instead of concocting apologetic rationalizations or creationist pseudoscience in order to pretend that their superstitious beliefs are somehow rooted in reason.

[Nick]

This reminds me of a guy I knew with the nickname of "Tiny"--of course he was 6'4", heavy with a shaved head, belonged to a motorcycle gang, was an alcoholic, and a jerk.

Then he went to AA and got sober and the now dry Tiny was, a jerk.  That's because Tiny, dry or sober, was a jerk.

I knew a guy like that, former Hell's Angel who became a teaching assistant where I worked. He was still a scary-looking tattooed biker, only he carried a huge ostentatious bible around with him everywhere. At first I thought he was cool, because he had turned his life around and was trying to help others.  But instead of beating up people with his fists, he was now beating them over the head with his new-found religious faith.

I actually got into some religious arguments with him, because he was so in-your-face with the students. And he was a jerk--never could support anything he said. He favorite non-answer was, "I can't explain it-- I just believe it." 

Simple answer: The tide goes in, the tide goes out...Bill O'Riley.

[stuffin]

Nam is an asshole, so the religious people did get something right.