Author Topic: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees  (Read 66195 times)

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Offline Astreja

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #377 on: July 19, 2011, 09:06:28 PM »
Like I said I am just a messanger, letting you know what God wants to say to mankind.
I, for one, do not believe you when you claim to speak for a god.  I prefer to deliver My messages in person, but if for some reason I did need a mortal to speak on My behalf it would be someone with the following qualities:

  • Highly fluent in the language of the audience
  • Creative and poetic
  • Good listener
  • Good sense of humour
  • Patient
  • Able to control own temper
  • Empathetic
  • Willing to learn from the listeners, rather than just speaking at them and hoping to be believed

Quote
If you want to know THE TRUTH you have to take at least one pill.
No, I think truth doesn't require props.

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So are you ready for the truth?
Make a decision now, open your mind, accept Christ as your saviour, believe the word of God.
On the contrary, I choose to reject Christ as I consider it immoral to allow someone else to die in My place.

What if accepting the alleged sacrifice of Jesus is actually the Mark of the Beast, and Christianity is an elaborate test to find people who will do the right thing even at peril of hellfire?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #378 on: July 19, 2011, 11:33:10 PM »
LOL it sounds like your looking for a match on eharmony
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Astreja

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #379 on: July 19, 2011, 11:55:08 PM »
LOL it sounds like your looking for a match on eharmony
;D It does, doesn't it?
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #380 on: July 20, 2011, 05:39:37 AM »
Someone forgot to take their meds...
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #381 on: July 20, 2011, 05:51:42 AM »
Someone forgot to take their meds...

NVM the troll. He/She comes here every once in a while and posts his/her very detailed and perfect[1] debunking of this website
I'm surprised everyone here hasn't converted already :P
 1. Note: Sarcasm
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #382 on: July 20, 2011, 05:58:43 AM »
NVM the troll. He/She comes here every once in a while and posts his/her very detailed and perfect[1] debunking of this website
I'm surprised everyone here hasn't converted already :P
 1. Note: Sarcasm

By the powers of the spirit of Nostradamus within me, I'm sensing this cluster-fuck of a post was created by Dave Mabus.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Astreja

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #383 on: July 20, 2011, 11:44:42 PM »
By the powers of the spirit of Nostradamus within me, I'm sensing this cluster-fuck of a post was created by Dave Mabus.
Nah.  If Dennis Markuze was behind this mess, the thread would be littered with Depeche Mode videos and pictures of animals with extra legs.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #384 on: July 21, 2011, 08:41:06 PM »
By the powers of the spirit of Nostradamus within me, I'm sensing this cluster-f**k of a post was created by Dave Mabus.
Nah.  If Dennis Markuze was behind this mess, the thread would be littered with Depeche Mode videos and pictures of animals with extra legs.

It was him, for sure.  But we delete his nonsense as soon as we can.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #385 on: July 22, 2011, 12:04:42 AM »
It was him, for sure.  But we delete his nonsense as soon as we can.
Mea culpa -- I thought Zankuu was referring to the OP.  :P
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Offline Bagheera

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #386 on: July 22, 2011, 01:09:14 AM »
By the powers of the spirit of Nostradamus within me, I'm sensing this cluster-f**k of a post was created by Dave Mabus.
Nah.  If Dennis Markuze was behind this mess, the thread would be littered with Depeche Mode videos and pictures of animals with extra legs.

It was him, for sure.  But we delete his nonsense as soon as we can.

Good job. That was a fast response. Almost too fast: along with Astreja, I too thought Jetson was referring to the op, because I never saw D.M. 's post.

Offline Omen

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #387 on: July 27, 2011, 10:05:59 AM »
If you were walking down the street and saw someone drowning in a lake and you happened to have a rope, what would you do?

I know you're trying to draw a comparison between this analogy and your own actions, but you seem to be completely unaware that this isn't what you're doing.

Here is a more correct analogy:

You're walking down a road and see some kids playing in the water, suddenly you run screaming down to the edge of the river screaming about dangerous marflargs in the water!  The kids look around but have no idea what you're talking about, which of course they ask you to explain what you're talking about.  You begin hurling heavy stones out into the river screaming for the kids to get on the rocks as if they were rafts.  The kids watch the stones sink to the bottom of the river and ask again what is this marflarg thing, where is this marflarg thing, and demand that you show this 'danger' to them.   You began to tell the kids if they don't believe you, its their fault and whatever happens to them because of the marflargs happens.  The kids, now puzzled and slightly insulted, question your honesty and sanity.  You then condemn the children as being in league with with nefarious leprechaun Bolsheviks.

John, to be plain, there is no reason to believe your religious mythology.  Stories are not evidence, fear is not a reason to imagine things to exist without warrant to do so, and you're not throwing anyone life rafts here.  Your throwing stones, that sink to the bottom of the river, because you're not coherently conveying anything to be understood to be saved from much less any of the other nonsense that accompanies such magical belief.  Also, condemning those that do not believe your religious fantasy as being in league with antagonistic elements of your religious fantasy does not convey any kind of argument to believe.  It is disingenuous, arrogant, condescending, and insulting; a complete package of dehumanizing nonsense meant to dismiss people who do not believe in your religious fantasy.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 10:17:10 AM by Omen »
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline John 3 16

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #388 on: July 27, 2011, 07:46:57 PM »
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Matthew24:37-41).
I have no power or authority to condemn anybody, anyway.
I am not threatening anybody, anyway. Choice is yours.
I am a messanger, delivering a message, not mine but God's.
Let me tell you again, choice is yours, no debating, no discussing.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 11:12:56 PM by screwtape »
If I ever stop showing up here.
You know I am unjustly banned by Mods.

Offline Omen

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #389 on: July 27, 2011, 08:04:23 PM »
Let me tell you again, choice is yours,

No it isn't.  I can't 'choose' to believe what I have no reason to believe, that would be the psychological definition of delusional.

Why would you claim that I have a choice for what I clearly do not?

Quote
no debating, no discussing.

You're absolutely right, you're not conveying any kind of informative basis to choose anything.  Instead, you're ignoring contradictory elements of your belief system, and engaging in a polemical condescending tit for tat exchange where somehow you think 'preaching' means anything to anyone else.  I guess it never takes you back that this is the kind of behavior we expect out of cults, that is a complete disinterest in reasonably supporting an assertion and instead wholesale dogma portrayed against a series of emotional dependencies that no one else except you shares.

Why is it that you can't spread the word of your religion without requiring others to lie to themselves or to be suffering from some mental instability?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 08:06:24 PM by Omen »
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline jetson

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #390 on: July 27, 2011, 08:10:36 PM »
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Matthew24:37-41).
I have no power or authority to condemn anybody, anyway.
I am not threatening anybody, anyway. Choice is yours.
I am a messanger, delivering a message, not mine but God's.
Let me tell you again, choice is yours, no debating, no discussing.


John 3 16,

Preaching is not allowed on this forum.  If you don't want to discuss a topic, and would rather just preach to everyone, you will have to do that on some other forum.  If I have to warn you again about this, you may find yourself in a more heavily moderated state until the preaching stops. 

Jetson

Offline John 3 16

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #391 on: July 27, 2011, 08:14:31 PM »
HOLD UP!
One quick question before you shut me up.
Quoting from the bible is "preaching"
And quoting from a science book is "the facts"?
Are science books your bible?
If I ever stop showing up here.
You know I am unjustly banned by Mods.

Offline jetson

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #392 on: July 27, 2011, 08:16:53 PM »
HOLD UP!
One quick question before you shut me up.
Quoting from the bible is "preaching"
And quoting from a science book is "the facts"?
Are science books your bible?

Go read the forum rules, and take your concerns to me via PM.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #393 on: July 27, 2011, 08:17:14 PM »
John 3 16,

Darth Vader is a real life person living on a space station right now, or he isn't. Choice is yours, but you'll suffer for eternity if you choose "not real". A made up consequence doesn't change the answer does it?

Listen, John 3 16, I know this stuff is all you have in your life, that without it everything seems like it's shit, but that has no bearing on it's validity. Maybe misery loves company, or it just makes it more real to you if you go on like this, but I think you need to move on and spread your words of wisdom to other forums on the internet. Maybe a catholic forum, a mormon forum, or even an islamic forum.

All those people need your truth so they can also choose.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Omen

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #394 on: July 27, 2011, 08:25:50 PM »
Quoting from the bible is "preaching"

Yep.

Quote
And quoting from a science book is "the facts"?

Yep.

Quote
Are science books your bible?

Nope, the bible is not 'fact'.  Science operates as a distinct methodology of objective analysis and self correction.  It encompasses an enormous body of work subjected to constant rigorous analysis and challenges, it requires logical explanations to follow from hypothesis to observed predictions and finally theory.  Science is not a 'belief' system, nor operates as an epistemology comparable to religion.

The bible is a random series of cultural beliefs that many different religions interpret solely as their preferred religious doctrine.   Interpretation from the bible is purely random, the only inherent value is the arbitrary selection of scripture and what predetermined conclusion you want to draw from it.  It takes absolutely no analysis, study, or any kind of training to make random stuff up out of the bible.  Religion is a belief system, operating as an epistemology inseparable from make believe.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Astreja

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #395 on: July 27, 2011, 09:03:20 PM »
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Yea verily, as 'Noah' is a mythological entity, so is 'the coming of the Son of man.'

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For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage... {snip completely unfounded booga booga Bible threats}
We want something more substantial than a few lines from a book of mythology.

Quote
I have no power or authority to condemn anybody, anyway.
Correct.

Quote
I am not threatening anybody, anyway.
False.  You are deliberately using your mythology to attempt to bully people into belief.  You are verbally and psychologically abusing people with fear of your invisible friend.

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Choice is yours.
Is that so?  I choose against Christianity, against salvation, and against you, John.

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I am a messanger, delivering a message, not mine but God's.
I disagree vehemently.  You are the messenger for a belief system that should have been stillborn nearly 2000 years ago.  You are the messenger for a belief system that saw My ancestors' kin tormented into conversion or burned alive in their own houses in Norway 1000 years ago.

You are the messenger for an imaginary god, but the message that you carry is a plague and an assassin's bullet, not a blessing.  There is nothing in your beliefs that I want.

Quote
Let me tell you again, choice is yours, no debating, no discussing.
By My blood, My sweat and My tears, and in honour of every man woman and child who has been abused by Christianity and its plague dogs, I choose against... Now and forever.

Pray to your god to come get Me and take Me to your mythical hell, John.  Right here and right now.
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #396 on: July 27, 2011, 09:17:17 PM »
HOLD UP!
One quick question before you shut me up.
Quoting from the bible is "preaching"
And quoting from a science book is "the facts"?
Are science books your bible?

low....

hanging....

fruit....
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #397 on: July 28, 2011, 09:34:40 AM »
HOLD UP!
One quick question before you shut me up.
Quoting from the bible is "preaching"
Yes, continued use of quotes without backing them up or discussing the logical consequences would be, but as extensive quotes from, lets use a particularly bad atheist book, the Atheist Manifesto would also qualify.


And quoting from a science book is "the facts"?
Are science books your bible?

No they aren't due to one very singular difference: anything in them can be and HAS BEEN overturned by new evidence: See Phrenology, Philogiston theory, Aether theory, Spontaneous generation theory, The Music of the Spheres, The Heliocentric universe model, etc.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #398 on: July 28, 2011, 09:38:10 AM »
I am a messanger, delivering a message, not mine but God's.
Let me tell you again, choice is yours, no debating, no discussing.
Funny how all Christians claim that they are "only" saying what God "really" meant.  In that they do not agree, I'm waiting for this god to get off its backside and show me which Christians are the real ones.  Where are those miracles that were promised as a way to be able to distinguish followers of JC from non-believers? 

If it were truly a choice, this god, if it really wants me to believe and if is truly good,  would have no problem with showing itself to me, since I doubt it exists.  But if it refuses, and all evidence points to the likelyhood that it doesn't exist, it's not a choice at all. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #399 on: July 28, 2011, 10:31:29 AM »
no debating, no discussing.


So you are admitting that you are here to preach...will not listen to what we have to say; you are no more than just an advertisment, a walking billboard, with no will of your own. Basically, Spam.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 12:22:08 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #400 on: July 28, 2011, 11:48:57 AM »
Let me correlate 2 of John 3:16's posts:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,16695.msg431683.html#msg431683
Quote
For us, believing is not an option, it is a matter of life and death, for eternity.

and

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,16695.msg434599.html#msg434599
Quote
...Choice is yours.
...Let me tell you again, choice is yours,...

"Option" is synonym for "choice".

If you can choose to believe then we are talking about self-hypnosis.  Also, the choice becomes arbitrary.  You could choose to believe in the correspondences of Ceremonial Magic.  Green is the color of the goddess of vegetation.  Venus' color is green.  Venus came from the island of Cyprus from which the Romans derived the word "cuprum"  that is copper.  Copper is the metal of Venus.  Copper corrodes to a green color.  These are not poetical coincidences!  They are underlying spiritual correspondences.  You can see it all if you only believe!

So John 3:16 can choose to believe which is his admission that he is very suggestible.  He can choose to believe something and can't understand anyone who is not that suggestible.

Why does he choose to believe this Christianity?  In the first quote he admits he does so because he is scared of going to Hell.

So, I compliment him on his diffuse restatement of Pascal's Wager.


Offline Graybeard

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #401 on: July 28, 2011, 12:50:50 PM »
Like I said I am just a messanger, letting you know what God wants to say to mankind.
No, you are letting us know what you want us to know of your own opinions and using the authority of a mythical being to do it.

And before you accuse me of being hard-hearted, there is plenty enough evidence to show that this is what the religiously[1] deluded do.
 1. It is also common amongst the messianic in any organised group
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline anon0404

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #402 on: July 29, 2011, 05:51:28 AM »
Hello. I'd like to throw in my two cents, if I may.

I am not religious by any stretch. Nor am I atheist. By definition, that would make me agnostic, though in actuality I strive for nihilistic ideals. What I mean by that is that I have a belief structure, however I am aware that it is fallible and I am not afraid of being proven wrong. I actively seek out counterpoints to what I feel is right and always take them into consideration. I don't necessarily agree with or believe in everything that is said to me, though I always respect the fact that another person's beliefs are as sacred to them as mine are to me.

To anyone taking the time to read this, you are welcome to feel however you want about this post. All I ask is that you keep an open mind about it. Nothing I'm stating is fact. This is just what I've gathered from a short, twenty-four year existence:

If you were to ask whether I thought God was real, my answer would be probably not. At least not in any way that any major religion has described "Him." However, I find "Why won't God heal amputees?" to be a rather poor argument for questioning "His" existence. To an extent, it works as a counterpoint to some major religions, especially Christianity, but it's missing one key belief that religion has. There's that old saying about how the Lord works in mysterious ways, and that God has a plan for each of us. Therefore any answered prayers would coincide with that plan, and by Christianity's logic, the limb you lost is a part of that plan, so, sorry, but it won't magically regenerate. Extremist sects would say that God is punishing you for your sins and you deserved it, that it should be a sign for you to repent.

I get that the argument presented by the question, "why won't God heal amputees?" is in direct response to quotes from the bible stating that prayers will be answered no matter what. If that's the case, though, then why is there war and poverty? Praying for peace on Earth is much more common than asking for lost limbs back, and history shows us that that is not the case. I read several pages of this website, but what I'm reading between the lines for all of it can be summed up as follows: "My life is not perfect. Therefore, there is no God." I feel this is website represents a very self-righteous view on God's existence, or lack thereof. The Book of Job would be the counterpoint to the logic that "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" brings up.

Unanswered prayers are not a very strong basis for debating the existence of an all-powerful being that created existence in the first place. It focuses too much on "Why" and not enough on "How." My questioning of the existence of God is based on scientific evidence versus the convenient shortcuts presented by the bible. But most of the Christians I associate with are actually well aware of and accept science as a valid contribution to society and existence. They don't take the bible as fact, but as an inspiration for what they feel is righteous. When you get right down to it, there are few, few, people in this world that can honestly say they have never felt inspired or touched by something that somebody else has written.

As far as I'm concerned, the bible takes some standpoints that I just cannot agree with. The main one is faith. I don't believe an unquestioning faith in God is a necessity to live righteously. My concern is not over the afterlife, but to do the best I can with what I have here and now. And if there is an afterlife, I feel that should be enough. If it is not, then I'm prepared to burn in Hell for eternity so long as I live righteously on Earth.

I feel that if there is a Hell, it is filled with people who committed sins because they knew they could pray for forgiveness afterward. I should elaborate on this: Humans are weak, we are stupid, and we are all guilty of doing terrible things to one another at certain points. There is a difference, however, between those who truly feel remorseful for the occasional atrocities they commit and those who knowingly and regularly commit acts of evil because a prayer and/or ten "Hail Marys" a day will absolve them of any sin. One of my main reasons for not believing in what religion has to say about God is that I was guilty of being the latter of those two when I was younger and crazier. I eventually came to the realization that this did not make me a good person, and I stopped praying for forgiveness, just continued to be evil. The guilt came naturally after over a decade of a self-destructive spiral that gradually ostracized me from everyone I cared for. Without denouncing religion and eventually hitting bottom for a while, I never would have had the pieces to pick up to turn into a better person.

In my current state of existence, there is no place for God. However, I have also seen how the belief in such a concept can do a world of good for other people. It's all in the context of how you look at it.

For anyone that doubts religion, consider the idea that God could exist outside of all the preaching. Consider the idea that everything science has proven is true, and that God is merely there to perpetuate it. Consider that God could be natural rather than supernatural. Our entire existence could be outlined in numbers and equations. What if God was merely infinity, or an ongoing formula for the existence of time, space, and matter that humanity couldn't begin to comprehend in its current state?

Take into account the legend of the Tower of Babel, wherein humanity tried to reach God and nearly destroyed itself in the process, and compare it to the current global climate, the weapons of mass destruction resulting from innocent scientific discoveries, and how badly it could all end if warfare takes precedence over the advancement of our species.

The answers are all right in front of us, but they allow us just as much potential to destroy as they do to create. Destruction only sets us back, however, whereas creation opens up a whole new spectrum of answers to find. And for every answer there are more questions. Science advances exponentially, so I would say, from a logical standpoint, that if there is a God, it is a sum of all these answers.

And that if it did create us, it was merely so that we could grow. Nothing more.

Offline jetson

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #403 on: July 29, 2011, 06:15:13 AM »
@anon,

Or...you truly missed the point of the website.  While the original author may have had a purpose, which we may never know, the website does something very important - it drives discussion.  And it does this around a single important point.  That being that the god that millions of people believe in, is pure mythology.

The question does not consider the possibility of a god, rather, it completely refutes the one that is supposed to be the creator of the universe, and the one that offers humans eternal salvation, as well as consistent answered prayers that are indistinguishable from natural occurrence, or coincidence.

No amount of agnosticism, or consideration of the possibility of a god, nor special pleading towards the idea that a god is possible, will make this question problematic or even slightly challenging.  This question strikes directly into the center of a delusion, and splits it into a billion pieces, in one fell swoop.

You are still young, which means you have more time to consider the world around you, and determine what really matters to you.  Maybe religion will never be a part of your life, or maybe one day you will find Jesus and get saved, who knows.  But in the end, there is simply no escaping the obvious fact that'll gods are imaginary.

Jet.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #404 on: July 29, 2011, 11:06:23 AM »
Hello. I'd like to throw in my two cents, if I may.

Hello.  welcome to the forum.  You may.

I am not religious by any stretch. Nor am I atheist.

It sounds to me that you are a confused religious person.  If you are not an atheist, then you believe in at least one god.  Or perhaps you do not believe in gods, but you do not want to use the word "atheist"?

By definition, that would make me agnostic,

depends how you define agnostic.  In most circles agnostic is considered to be someone who has no opinion.  A more sophisticated definition uses agnostic to descibe certainty of knowledge.  An agnostic atheist is someone who does not believe in gods, but does not claim to know they do not exist.

If you were to ask whether I thought God was real, my answer would be probably not.

then you are an agnostic atheist.

At least not in any way that any major religion has described "Him." However, I find "Why won't God heal amputees?" to be a rather poor argument for questioning "His" existence.

then you miss the point of the question. It is not a silver bullet that proves gods do not exist. It is an argument against certain types of xians or people who believe in miraculous healing.  It reveals flaws in the logic and it  leads to a limited number of conclusions, one of which is there are no gods.

There's that old saying about how the Lord works in mysterious ways, and that God has a plan for each of us. Therefore any answered prayers would coincide with that plan, and by Christianity's logic, the limb you lost is a part of that plan, so, sorry, but it won't magically regenerate. Extremist sects would say that God is punishing you for your sins and you deserved it, that it should be a sign for you to repent.

That is handled in the online "book" that explains the whole question.  You should read it.

If that's the case, though, then why is there war and poverty?

You tell me.  Why are prayers not answered?  If the universe is overseen by a god that is all powerful, all knowing and all good, why is there suffering?

I read several pages of this website,

Maybe you should read all the pages before you comment.

but what I'm reading between the lines for all of it can be summed up as follows: "My life is not perfect. Therefore, there is no God."

nope.  Not even close.

The Book of Job would be the counterpoint to the logic that "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" brings up.

The book of Job is a tacit admission that the hebrew god behaves as randomly and indifferently as a natural phenomenon with no god whatsoever.  People look to religion for an explanation.  Job says there is none.

The book of Job shows that if there is a god, it does not respect any bargains, promises or deals that it made with people.  It had a deal with the hebrews - they worship yhwh and yhwh makes them prosper.  yhwh broke that deal.  He wanted to see if he could still be worshipped without keeping up his end of the bargain.  And in the end, he did it through power and bullying.

For anyone that doubts religion,

?  I have no idea what kind of argument you are trying to make here, but try again.  This one sucks.

Take into account the legend of the Tower of Babel, wherein humanity tried to reach God and nearly destroyed itself in the process,

That is not the story of Babel.  In the story of Babel, humans worked together to acheive something great.  yhwh then destroyed it because he was afraid of what they would accomplish.  People did not destroy themselves, god did it out of jealously and fear.


What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Peaceful Response to the Question asked Why Won't God Heal Amputees
« Reply #405 on: July 29, 2011, 11:44:46 AM »
I am not religious by any stretch. Nor am I atheist. By definition, that would make me agnostic, though in actuality I strive for nihilistic ideals. What I mean by that is that I have a belief structure, however I am aware that it is fallible and I am not afraid of being proven wrong. I actively seek out counterpoints to what I feel is right and always take them into consideration. I don't necessarily agree with or believe in everything that is said to me, though I always respect the fact that another person's beliefs are as sacred to them as mine are to me.
Nihilistic ideals?  What would those be?  and from the rest of your post, there is no way you are an agnostic either. Too many claims of knowing things about your “god”.
Quote
If you were to ask whether I thought God was real, my answer would be probably not. At least not in any way that any major religion has described "Him." However, I find "Why won't God heal amputees?" to be a rather poor argument for questioning "His" existence. To an extent, it works as a counterpoint to some major religions, especially Christianity, but it's missing one key belief that religion has. There's that old saying about how the Lord works in mysterious ways, and that God has a plan for each of us. Therefore any answered prayers would coincide with that plan, and by Christianity's logic, the limb you lost is a part of that plan, so, sorry, but it won't magically regenerate. Extremist sects would say that God is punishing you for your sins and you deserved it, that it should be a sign for you to repent.
Right here, I don’t belief for a second you aren’t religious.  You are religious, you just don’t like the baggage that the term comes with.  You want to believe in a “god” of your own definition and you want to have some special information about it.  That old crap about “the lord works in mysterious ways” is pure Christianity, trying to excuse the inaction of its imaginary deity. You want to claim that you “know” that there is a “plan”.  Please do show us the evidence that you do.

Yep, the WWGHA is asking for an explanation why the bible promises things and then fails to live up to those promises.  It sure is a good question to ask why is there war and poverty.  And the bible fails at that too.  So again, the bible, and I would guess, *your* bible no matter your feeble protestations, is worthless.

You want have your cake and eat it too.  You want an involved god with a “plan” but then you want to excuse it for not doing anything.  And Job.  Well, Christian, it’s not a counterpoint at all to the question.  Your god, and the more I read your post I am sure that you do worship this thing, made a bet with someone that this Job wouldn’t break.  What’s funny about this is that Job did nothing wrong.  Job questions this god just as we are. Unfortunately for you, and your god, we aren’t impressed by the blowhard god strutting around saying how great it is. Job was conveniently for the story. And this has nothing to do with the question why does your god fail in answering its promises.

I also question the existence of your god and base it on scientific evidence that this being doesn’t do what it says, just like prayers.  No magic creation, no flood, no Babel, no exodus, no cruxifiction.  But most theists are too ignorant of those things to really make an impact, so showing how ignorant their book is, is another tool. 

Like so many others, you have created your own version of this god.  You ignore the “silly” bits and have cobbled the rest together. But you have no problem in regurgitating the same old stuff from the bible.  Oooh, humans are weak, humans are stupid.  Sad that you find that to be some “truth”. 

and then we get the final “oooh, I don’t believe but I see how it’s useful so mean ol’ atheists should leave “those” theists alone.”  Sorry, not going to leave them or *you* alone. 



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