Author Topic: We are all descendants of Noah's family?  (Read 5975 times)

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Offline thunderridge

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We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« on: November 25, 2010, 04:23:06 PM »
I was watching a show called Creation Series (or something like that) on a xian channel.  One of the guys mentioned we are all descendants of Noah.  I believe Noah had three sons and their wives (correct me if I am wrong).  How do the xians reconcile the fact that their had to be some inbreeding (1st cousins) to re-populate earth.  I am sure this has been discussed before.  But again how is this explained or am I getting the story wrong?

Online Graybeard

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2010, 04:39:43 PM »
You're not getting it wrong, the other guy was. There was no universal flood, there was no ark and kangaroos got lost on the way to Israel, whilst the dodo was eaten by dinasaurs.

Christian apologists say that in those days there was no sin around and sin is what causes imperfections in humans, so incest was just fine (see Lot and his daughters.) Only in Leviticus, does God say whom you may mate with and with whom you may not. I assume that by this time, the sin levels had reached normal.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline Alzael

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2010, 04:41:59 PM »
God magic. It's basically that simple. The entire story of Noah relies on the knowns laws of physics, chemistry, and reality and logic itself falling to their knees and servicing god like a cheap, back-alley prostitute. The inbreeding thing is one of the lesser logical problems of the flood.
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Offline Positiveaob

Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2010, 04:45:35 PM »
A little tougher to explain is how civilizations that existed prior to such a supposed flood would have persisted afterwards.  I mean, is the thought the descendants of Noah went and re-established civilizations in China, Sumeria, Egypt, etc, and re-established their culture to replicate how it was before the flood?

Not to mention, tell me again how we have various races?

Anyone else just shaking their head in disbelief that we are in the 21st century having discussions about this?
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Offline Dante

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2010, 04:47:16 PM »
Anyone else just shaking their head in disbelief that we are in the 21st century having discussions about this?

I am, I am!
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Alzael

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2010, 04:52:56 PM »
A little tougher to explain is how civilizations that existed prior to such a supposed flood would have persisted afterwards.  I mean, is the thought the descendants of Noah went and re-established civilizations in China, Sumeria, Egypt, etc, and re-established their culture to replicate how it was before the flood?

Not to mention, tell me again how we have various races?

Anyone else just shaking their head in disbelief that we are in the 21st century having discussions about this?

God magic, my friend, god magic. After he wiped out all of humanity he went to Noah's family and had them birth a LOT of babies very quickly, then taught the babies to behave exactly like the people that had died, rebuilt all of the cities, and restored all of the destoryed crops and then left them with the impression that nothing had happened and they had been like this all along. I know it sounds crazy to us heathens, but you know how he loves to work in mysterious ways.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline Positiveaob

Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2010, 05:06:53 PM »
You eve notice too how the fundies tend to shy away from Noahs ark discussions?  It's pretty much a slam dunk against a literal interpretation of the bible.  And when you take that away, what do you really have?
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Offline IAmFirst

Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2010, 05:11:55 PM »
Weren't our earlier ancestors a product of incest too? Who did the sons of Adam & Eve fornicate with? Hmmm?

So we get, race of people brought about through incest, all die in flood except our incest created Noah family,
they repopulate the Earth with more incest.

I am now wondering I don't have three noses, a lopsided head and an extra foot protruding from my back. :D
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Offline Str82Hell

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2010, 06:42:32 PM »
I won't accept that I'm a descendant of monkeys and Noah, Adam and Eve were clearly monkeys.
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Offline Nick

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2010, 06:51:27 PM »
You must have faith, brother.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2010, 07:22:03 PM »
thunderridge:
Quote
How do the xians reconcile the fact that their had to be some inbreeding (1st cousins) to re-populate earth.

I don't know what the laws are where you are, but in the UK 1st cousin relationships/marriage are acceptable. So there would be no problem with re-populating from three couples in Noah's time.

IamFirst:
Quote
Weren't our earlier ancestors a product of incest too? Who did the sons of Adam & Eve fornicate with? Hmmm?
A&E's DNA was perfect - no nasty recessive genes for Down's Syndrome or anything like that - so brothers and sisters reproducing in those early generations wouldn't create the problems it would today.

Darn, these christians have an answer to everything!


Offline Nick

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2010, 07:36:56 PM »
So, when someone has a family reunion somehow we can all show up? :D
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2010, 09:22:12 PM »
Anyone else just shaking their head in disbelief that we are in the 21st century having discussions about this?

I am, I am!

Me too! Here we are in the year 2010 and these people think like the medieval times people. It's very sad that religion is the majority. Yep. Everything is run by creatards.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline natlegend

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2010, 03:08:02 AM »
'Creatards'.

lol
It's YOUR god, it's YOUR rules, YOU go to hell.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2010, 04:36:10 PM »
well u know i think g-d has like all these neato powers n stuff like he can move mountains n cure cancer n stuff so i think he probly just make sure the peopls dna was good when they made sex so no bad stuff could happen b cuz if he didnt then it wouldnt be good u know and since god is god and hes the source of all good stuff i dont think it would be hard to make sure no bad stuff got in there until there is enough people to put the bad stuff in!!!

thats what i think.
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Offline thunderridge

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2010, 04:57:23 PM »
^ good point Ray and hilarious.

Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2010, 05:26:13 PM »
yay!!!

i thunkted that good!!! 
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Offline Historicity

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2010, 05:42:34 PM »
We are descendants of rocks.

After the Great Flood, Deucalion and Pyrrha  prayed to Themis who told them to cover their heads and walk throwing the bones of the mother behind them.  Deucalion and Pyrrha guessed that we are all children of the Earth and the bones of the Earth are rocks so they walked throwing rocks over their shoulders.  The rocks that Deucalion threw became men and the rocks that Pyrrha threw became women.

So if everyone was killed in the Great Flood and Deucalion and his wife survived in a big box, t are all the current animal species postdiluvian?

The Greco-Romans really needed a priesthood to edit down the contradictions in their mythology and get all of it into one book.  And stone or burn people who told different versions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deucalion




  

Offline Historicity

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2010, 05:45:26 PM »
Why don't you just ask Ziusudra?  He's still alive in the earthly paradise of Dilmun.  Eternal earthly life was the reward of the Gods to him for his heroic service in saving 2 of every animal in the Ark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziusudra


Offline plbuster

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2010, 06:31:25 PM »
Actually, the original hebrew says the flood covered all the "land", not Earth.  That is one of the problems when translating from an acronymic ancient language.  The word was "Eretz".
The story is quite similar and probably owes its existence to Sumerian legends, as that is from where the Hebrews originated.
From the tight, ethnocentric view of traditional Judaism, all the people in the world would have been descendants of Noah.  To them, gentiles weren't people.  Even today, we see this xenophobic attitude in Israel, especially amongst the Harridim.
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Offline Emily

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2010, 06:38:57 PM »
Actually, the original hebrew says the flood covered all the "land", not Earth. That is one of the problems when translating from an acronymic ancient language.  The word was "Eretz".

Yeah, the flood didn't cover the oceans?

So are you saying the flood was local, and not a world wide flood? According to blue letter bible  Eretz means several different things, like many words do. How could that even happen? How could a localized flood wipe out everyone, but Noah and his family, or "destroy all flesh" like the bible says, considering there were people living in what was mesoamerica?


« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 06:47:53 PM by Emily »
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Offline IAmFirst

Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2010, 08:20:11 AM »
Actually, the original hebrew says the flood covered all the "land", not Earth. That is one of the problems when translating from an acronymic ancient language.  The word was "Eretz".

Yeah, the flood didn't cover the oceans?

So are you saying the flood was local, and not a world wide flood? According to blue letter bible  Eretz means several different things, like many words do. How could that even happen? How could a localized flood wipe out everyone, but Noah and his family, or "destroy all flesh" like the bible says, considering there were people living in what was mesoamerica?


I think plbuster is somewhat correct. Most likely, the flood WAS local, but it really resembles the flood in "The Epic of Gilgamesh", a Babylonian myth. Yet, YECs have enjoyed using the flood story as a "local" flood that "represents" all humanity. (Figures.  &)) The Adam & Eve "rib" story is clearly from the Summerian legends, as are many others concerning a great flood.

If interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Genesis_Flood:_The_Biblical_Record_and_Its_Scientific_Implications
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/87/do-women-have-an-extra-rib-because-eve-got-one-of-adams
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Offline William

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2010, 08:26:51 AM »
Actually, the original hebrew says the flood covered all the "land", not Earth.  That is one of the problems when translating from an acronymic ancient language. 

Pity God never realized this little translation problem would happen - now we have so many people finding the whole thing laughable.  But wait ... there's the impossible ark and ridiculous animal husbandry challenge in the story too.  What mistake in translation slipped them into the story  :shrug
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Online Graybeard

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2010, 08:37:12 AM »
Actually, the original hebrew says the flood covered all the "land", not Earth.  That is one of the problems when translating from an acronymic ancient language. 

Pity God never realized this little translation problem would happen - now we have so many people finding the whole thing laughable.  But wait ... there's the impossible ark and ridiculous animal husbandry challenge in the story too.  What mistake in translation slipped them into the story  :shrug
Would the mistranslation earth/land make a lot of difference? Mount Ararat is 5,137 m/16,854 ft high. Everything under that height would then be submerged, which would take care of 95% of the earth.
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Offline IAmFirst

Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2010, 08:40:27 AM »
Actually, the original hebrew says the flood covered all the "land", not Earth.  That is one of the problems when translating from an acronymic ancient language. 

Pity God never realized this little translation problem would happen [...]

Um, wouldn't he have? Tower of Babel. Tower of Babel. What an arrogant god we created.
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Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2010, 11:12:32 AM »
Actually, the original hebrew says the flood covered all the "land", not Earth.  That is one of the problems when translating from an acronymic ancient language. 

Pity God never realized this little translation problem would happen - now we have so many people finding the whole thing laughable.  But wait ... there's the impossible ark and ridiculous animal husbandry challenge in the story too.  What mistake in translation slipped them into the story  :shrug
Would the mistranslation earth/land make a lot of difference? Mount Ararat is 5,137 m/16,854 ft high. Everything under that height would then be submerged, which would take care of 95% of the earth.
   Great point.
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Offline sdenney78

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2010, 11:36:40 AM »
The Bible does say that of all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.  It goes on to say that all of mankind and animal life except marine life were wiped out.  Only Noah, his family and the animals in the ark survived. 

I looks to me like incest was unavoidable.

Offline sdenney78

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2010, 12:13:59 PM »
The way Christians reconcile the fact that Noah's family had cousins marrying each other is through the word of God.  In the book of Leviticus, it lists which family members are not allowed to intermarry.  Cousins are excluded from that list.  The Bible says that Christians should uphold governmental laws.  Cousins not being allowed to marry each other was introduced through a governmental law at some point in history.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: We are all descendants of Noah's family?
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2010, 11:27:59 PM »
why are they looking for noahs ark on the highest peaks?? would it not make sense that ALL animals departed the ark when the water ebbed back to its lowest point?
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