Bible Contradiction Graph

[One Above All]

can you see who started this dodging thingy now?

Say for a second that I agree with you. Does that make it right that you dodged as well? Because as I mentioned before, I'm not velkyn. I answered your dodges but I didn't get my answers yet. Show evidence that the Bible is inerrant

[coram deo]

can you see who started this dodging thingy now?

Say for a second that I agree with you. Does that make it right that you dodged as well? Because as I mentioned before, I'm not velkyn. I answered your dodges but I didn't get my answers yet. Show evidence that the Bible is inerrant

I am sorry, but I can not prove something that doesn't exist (Biblical contradictions)
therefore, I have no evidence.

[One Above All]

I am sorry, but I can not prove something that doesn't exist (Biblical contradictions)
therefore, I have no evidence.

I'm guessing English isn't your first language
I asked for evidence that the Bible is without contradictions, not your claim that it is inerrant. Enormous difference there

[patty_lt]

And regarding the dying story of Judas...

Maybe he hung himself and the rope broke and he fell on the ground and his belly bursts open......

And regarding Baalservant's illustration,

Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.

It drives me a little bonkers when theists do this.  This combining of stories to remove contradictions is now creating a NEW story and one that isn't in the bible.  If Judas did both or if certain persons were at the tomb first, the story should reflect this.  It doesn't.  That makes it a contradiction... not a new "I put it together in my head story so now it isn't a contradiction."  Isn't this book inspired and without error? <hint> The answer is NO.

[velkyn]

I don't see any bible verse says John and Peter were the only ones there or there was only one woman visited Jesus's tomb on that day (Sunday).

Like I said, maybe they all went there but different timing.

Unfortunately your gospels show that your claims are wrong.  It must be scary to realize that a book that you claim is divinely inspired is so flawed that your god evidently depends on flawed humans to make any sense of it. 

and dear, I've shown you the contradictions.  You are making claims with no evidence to support them, that the bible doesn't have contradicting claims on who was first to the tomb, that there were two different people who was David's chief warrior, etc.  claiming that the bible doesn't "really" say what it does.  I want to know how you know this.  If you make the claim, you must have some evidence that what it says isn't the literal case. 
 

[coram deo]

Velkyn,
let's look at the context!
I have no special spiritual power to know and to understand what is outside the bible, that is why I was saying "maybe that's what happened here and there".

I am not here to make stories up and say 'ya'all believe me'
rather, I am trying to tell you "we don't know what is outside the context,"
To help you understand, here is an example
"king's chief warrior killed 300 men in a battle" and in a different book of bible it says "king's chief warrior killed 800 men in a battle"

what makes you think it is the same person.
MAYBE same person, but MAYBE different battle?
You don't know and neither do I.

but there is certainly no contradictions anywhere. because we don't know.

Here is another one.
In my diary, I wrote "I went to Toronto yesterday" and in my other dairy I wrote"I went to Hamilton yesterday" do you see a contradiction?
I certainly don't, because I went to Toronto first and went to Hamilton, yesterday.

[velkyn]

oh, “context” one of the favorite bits of nonsense that Christians run to.  Sorry, the context doesn’t help you either.  If you think it does, explain it to me.  The context is relating the same story and gets the details wrong. It isn’t describing a different battle, it is giving a list of men in the same event.  Same with the gospels, it is giving different versions of the *same* event.  We have the thieves on the crosses saying completely different and contradictory things.  There is no other time JC is up on the cross to “mistake” it for.

Why does it do that?  Is this a divinely inspired book or not?  If not, then it’s just as likely to be wrong as the Illiad.  No gods appeared, no gods exist.  It’s just a story.

CD, you are trying to excuse your holy book for its errors by trying to claim it doesn’t contradict itself.  The gospels show that it does.  Let me ask you, did the disciples go to into hiding or did they celebrate at the temple?  We get both claims and they both can’t be true.  Either they were wanted men or they weren’t.   

Here is another one.
In my diary, I wrote "I went to Toronto yesterday" and in my other dairy I wrote"I went to Hamilton yesterday" do you see a contradiction?
I certainly don't, because I went to Toronto first and went to Hamilton, yesterday.

Unfortunately for you, the bible claims to be a depiction of events as they happened, not your diary. 

[Hatter23]

And regarding the dying story of Judas...

Maybe he hung himself and the rope broke and he fell on the ground and his belly bursts open......

And regarding Baalservant's illustration,

Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.

It drives me a little bonkers when theists do this.  This combining of stories to remove contradictions is now creating a NEW story and one that isn't in the bible.  If Judas did both or if certain persons were at the tomb first, the story should reflect this.  It doesn't.  That makes it a contradiction... not a new "I put it together in my head story so now it isn't a contradiction."  Isn't this book inspired and without error? <hint> The answer is NO.

It equally drive me bokers. It reminds me of when you catch a little kid in a lie(through contradiction) and they then invent a new story that makes it not a contradiction, even though the new story has elements in it that are so wild, significant, and/or obvious that they would have been mentioned in the first place.

[screwtape]

I think ST's statement is more convincing.

My point was, the bible is muddled, unclear and conflicted.  Which is the same as saying the bible has contradictions.  Who were David's 3 chief asskickers?  In one verse it is Jashobeam, Eleazar and Abishai.  In another it is Josheb-Basshebeth, Eleazar and Shammah.  Which is it?

1 Chron 12-14 tells this story:

Next to him was Eleazar son of Dodai the Ahohite, one of the three mighty warriors. 13 He was with David at Pas Dammim when the Philistines gathered there for battle. At a place where there was a field full of barley, the troops fled from the Philistines. 14 But they took their stand in the middle of the field. They defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory.

bold mine.

compare with an almost identical story in 2 Sam 11-12:

Next to him was Shammah son of Agee the Hararite. When the Philistines banded together at a place where there was a field full of lentils, Israel’s troops fled from them. 12 But Shammah took his stand in the middle of the field. He defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory.

Same story (more or less), different guy.  You might say, "maybe they both did the same thing."  Seriously?  It seems pretty obvious to me this is the same story from different tribes, each of whom inserted their local legendary hero.  Does that really seem less likely to you than there being two separate battles with the Philistines, one in a barle field, one in a lentil field, both where the jooz ran away, both where defeat was avoided by separate heroes? 


Add to that 1 chron and 2 Sam have differences on Abashai.  1 Chron calls him 1 of the 3.  2Sam 18 says:

Abishai the brother of Joab son of Zeruiah was chief of the Three.[e] He raised his spear against three hundred men, whom he killed, and so he became as famous as the Three. 19 Was he not held in greater honor than the Three? He became their commander, even though he was not included among them.

The story in 1 chron is identical except it seemed to include him in the 3.  Or if not, it failed to mention the third.

Do you get what I'm driving at?  The bible is not clear.  Does this appear to be the inspired work of the perfect, omnipotent creator of the universe?  Or does it appear to be a collection of stories by a bunch of iron age savages who were concerned with tribal bragging rights?

If you are not the kind of person who believes in biblical inerrancy or literalism, then this may not be such a big deal for you.  You might shrug your shoulders and not see the significance of this.  However, you should understand that all this adds up to the bible - the ostensible foundations your beliefs - being an unreliable witness of history.  Thus, your foundation is built on quicksand. 

[Benny]

No mean to be rude, but I don't see any dodging.

How about the fact that when people ask you for evidence for your point that you try to shift who actually needs to show the evidence and then just ask questions instead of answering them?

Unfortunately for you, they are talking about the same man.

what evidence do you have to back that statement up?
I think ST's statement is more convincing.

good for you then.  Any evidence that your claim that there is no contradictions in teh bible then? 

can you see who started this dodging thingy now?

No, and we're not taking you seriously unless you can answer OUR questions, including ST's last post (you are getting Darwins screwtape, JSYK)  and if you can't do that, your claims are irrelevant, falsified, and moronic, to say the least.

[coram deo]

Who were David's 3 chief asskickers?  In one verse it is Jashobeam, Eleazar and Abishai.  In another it is Josheb-Basshebeth, Eleazar and Shammah.  Which is it?

David's 3 kick ass mutha fukas were Jashobeam, Eleazar and Abishai and then later on Jashobeam and Abishai got their asses kicked so david recruited 2 more mutha fukas,
so it's now Josheb-Basshebeth, Eleazar and Shammah, the furious 3.
you don't think so? then can you come up with an objective evidence that proves I am wrong?

Like I said earlier, for me to say "there is a contradiction in a story" the story should be like this.
"David's 3 warriors were kicking every body's asses and their names were A, B, and C and those 3 never died or changed" vs "David's 3 warriors were kicking everybody's asses and their names were A, B, and D"

Can you see a contradiction in this story? I  do.

Same story (more or less), different guy.  You might say, "maybe they both did the same thing."  Seriously?  It seems pretty obvious to me this is the same story from different tribes, each of whom inserted their local legendary hero.  Does that really seem less likely to you than there being two separate battles with the Philistines, one in a barley field, one in a lentil field, both where the jooz ran away, both where defeat was avoided by separate heroes? 

and regarding Eleazar and Shammah,  what's wrong with kicking Philistines asses in either a barley or a lentil field?
these 2 dudes obviously have different names and fathers, and origins.

Do you know how many times Israelite kicked Philies' asses?

I don't see either contradiction or even unclearness in this story.

Do you get what I'm driving at?  The bible is not clear.

when bible is telling history, it can not possibly contain every whys and hows on incidents and individuals. It is rather unnecessary.  because things change, incidents happen, people die, chiefs gets killed, kicked out, promoted, laid off, hired, fired, re-hired, rescued, saved, recruited.....

[coram deo]

No, and we're not taking you seriously unless you can answer OUR questions, including ST's last post (you are getting Darwins screwtape, JSYK)  and if you can't do that, your claims are irrelevant, falsified, and moronic, to say the least.

Now I answered ST last post.
Are you taking me seriously, are my claims relevant, true, and genius?

Or are you going to come up with another post and say "shut up, until you answer me, until then, I am going to dodge your question all I want, and tell you to stop dodging you moron, you are not serious, your claims are irrelevant, falsified, and moronic."?

[curiousgirl]

David's 3 kick ass mutha fukas were Jashobeam, Eleazar and Abishai and then later on Jashobeam and Abishai got their asses kicked so david recruited 2 more mutha fukas,
so it's now Josheb-Basshebeth, Eleazar and Shammah, the furious 3.
you don't think so? then can you come up with an objective evidence that proves I am wrong?

Magic decoder ring usage. Then reversal of the burden of proof. Nice and fallacious.

when bible is telling history, it can not possibly contain every whys and hows on incidents and individuals. It is rather unnecessary.  because things change, incidents happen, people die, chiefs gets killed, kicked out, promoted, laid off, hired, fired, re-hired, rescued, saved, recruited.....

Red herring (my bolding added). I only want consistent facts, and that is not what the Bible provides. In another thread, we are discussing this:

Ezekiel 18
20The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

Then David's baby is killed for his adultery:

2 Samuel 12
13-14: Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, “The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the LORD, the son born to you will die.”

There are blatant contradictions in the Bible, and not just historical ones. Ones that question the God that the Bible is supposed to support.

[plethora]

@coram deo

The bible contradicts reality. That's all I care about.

The earth was not created in 6 days.
The earth is not 6000-10000 years old.
The earth is not a flat disc with a dome covering it.
Adam was not the first human.
Eve was not made from Adam's rib.
People never lived 900 years.
There was never a worldwide flood.
The parting of the Red Sea never happened.
There are no such thing as talking snakes.
There are no such thing as people rising from the dead.

... I could go on and on and on ...

All of these things have been thoroughly refuted by science.

You want to argue that the bible has no contradictions? Fine. So fucking what? Doesn't make its contents true.

[velkyn]

when bible is telling history, it can not possibly contain every whys and hows on incidents and individuals. It is rather unnecessary.  because things change, incidents happen, people die, chiefs gets killed, kicked out, promoted, laid off, hired, fired, re-hired, rescued, saved, recruited.....

again, we have direct contradictions that you ignore.  What did the thieves on the cross say, CD?  Where the disciples hiding out or celebrating in the temple right after JC was resurrected.  These are not just details they are essential for the story and they cannot both happen at the same time.

Your bible is anything but a divinely inspired book as it claims.  It is a story book, written by many people at various times. They had no god showing them what to write and make mistake after mistake in their ignorance. 

[screwtape]

you don't think so? then can you come up with an objective evidence that proves I am wrong?

I know you are being a wise ass because I just drank your milkshake and you really are out of ammo.  But leave ego out of it.  This is important and not just for our discussion.  It is important for you to be a successful human being.  I am going to do you a kindness and try to teach you something useful.  I hope you are receptive to it. 

"Can't prove it doesn't" is the road to ruin.  You see, any child or idiot can make any kind of impossible to prove claim and then say "can't prove it isn't so!"  A dragon lives in my pocket.  Can't prove it doesn't!  There is a teapot orbiting earth.  Can't prove it doesn't!  A dog lives in my house without my knowledge.  Can't prove it doesn't!  But that does not make any of those ideas true nor does it provide any justification to believe them.

This is where we talk about burden of proof.  You are making the claim, so it is incumbent upon you to give me a reason to believe you.  I loaded you up with scriptural backing.  You have none.  And I talked about likelihoods, not certainties.  So as it stands, I have no reason at all to accept your imaginative narrative.  No one does, not even you.  Sure, it serves to explain away your problem.  But there is no reason in the world to think that it is true because there is no evidence for it.

Like I said earlier, for me to say "there is a contradiction in a story" the story should be like this.

You are being intellectually dishonest.  Quit being such a baby and admit it.

and regarding Eleazar and Shammah,  what's wrong with kicking Philistines asses in either a barley or a lentil field?
these 2 dudes obviously have different names and fathers, and origins.

When you have two ancient stories that are virtually identical except for a couple of names and minor details, it is very likely they are different versions of the same story.  One group heard it from another and inserted their preferred hero to make it their story.  This was even done with yhwh and Ba'al.  Stories about Ba'al kicking the Sea's[1] butt were recycled by proto-hebrews and they just replaced "Ba'al" with "yhwh".  That sort of cross pollination happened all the time.

Now quit being juvenile and admit it.

I don't see either contradiction or even unclearness in this story.

That is because you are more interested in defending your beliefs and not being wrong that you are in intellectual honesty.  Drop the ego.  Learn something.  Admit when you are wrong.  It is liberating and good policy.

1.	their name for the sea god was Sea

[coram deo]

Thank you for your lecture. ST.

"Can't prove it doesn't" is the road to ruin. ...snip.....Can't prove it doesn't!  But that does not make any of those ideas true nor does it provide any justification to believe them.

That sounds about right, you "can't prove there is no god", I "can't prove there is no bible contradition",..hey wait! what the hell are we doing here, then?

This is where we talk about burden of proof.  You are making the claim, so it is incumbent upon you to give me a reason to believe you.

Think about it really hard.
who is making the claim? when you say there is bible contradictions(positive claim) vs I say no there isn't(negative claim)

p.s. Intellectually dishonest? what - that?

[coram deo]

All of these things have been thoroughly refuted by science.

show me your science so I can take it to about 5 billion people on the earth and tell them "sirs! you are wrongs!

You want to argue that the bible has no contradictions? Fine. So fucking what? Doesn't make its contents true.

You want to argue that there is no god? Fine, So flipping what? (that) Doesn't make any god/gods/God disappear.

[screwtape]

Thank you for your lecture. ST.

Not a lecture.  Sound advice, man to man.  And, unfortunately, it appears you are still hung up on being defensive and missed my point.  Did you even read the link to Screwtape's dog?

That sounds about right, you "can't prove there is no god",

Right.  Just because I "can't prove there isn't" does not mean there is any good reason to believe there is.  In fact, the point of Screwtape's Dog is you cannot prove the non-existence of anything.  Which is why "can't prove it doesn't" is such bad policy.  If you want to open that door, any monster can come walking through.  Should we believe in mermaids?  We cannot prove they don't exist.  I mean, we've not searched every gallon of water of every ocean.  And even if we did, well, they could be hiding in a part of the ocean where we weren't.  The ocean is big, ya know.

I "can't prove there is no bible contradition",..hey wait! what the hell are we doing here, then?

I showed the contradiction.  I laid out the evidence and the quotes from the bible.  I provided evidence and an explanation.  You just invented a lame scenario out of thin air and then defied me to prove you wrong.  Pretty shabby.

Think about it really hard.
who is making the claim? when you say there is bible contradictions(positive claim) vs I say no there isn't(negative claim)

Did you not recognize that all those bible quotes and explanations I put around them were (ready for this?) ... evidence?  The claim was made and the evidence provided.  My end of the bargain was fulfilled.  Rather than provide a counter argument, with evidence, you asserted a fantasy and gave no evidence.   Essentially, I got a "nuh-uh!" 

p.s. Intellectually dishonest? what - that?

That would be you, idiot.  I put a lot of effort into responding to you.  In return I get juvenile bullshit.  You can either try harder and do a better job, or I'm done.

[coram deo]

Honestly, I thought you were one of the atheists here that I can actually have serious discussion about religion.

That would be you, idiot.

I am very serious here ST.
this will be the last, I tolerate your insult.

Did you not recognize that all those bible quotes and explanations I put around them were (ready for this?) ... evidence?  The claim was made and the evidence provided.  My end of the bargain was fulfilled. 

Bible verses are not supporting documents.  Bible verses are claims that require supporting documents.

Now, that's the contradiction I am talking about.
other contradictions in the "bible contraction graph"? NAHH.. lame.

[Ambassador Pony]

I am very serious here ST.
this will be the last, I tolerate your insult.

Or what?

You'll humiliate yourself in front of strangers more by getting your ass handed to you again?

[coram deo]

Or what?

ST will speak for me this time

You can either try harder and do a better job, or I'm done.

hi pony! wouldn't it be more appropriate to say hello, first?  my dear old friend

You'll humiliate yourself in front of strangers more by getting your ass handed to you again?

no need to worry about my ass.
not ass humiliated ass your pony ass( three asses wow!)

[MMcNeely]

Deo, you are proving yourself to be the ass.  Multiple times you have been showed contradictions in the Bible and have been asked to explain them. And multiple times you have failed to offer a valid explanation.  Check and mate.

[Ambassador Pony]

You can either try harder and do a better job, or I'm done.

Do you promise?

In that case, I think I speak for Screwtape when I say he refuses to try harder, his minimal effort was quite enough.

Bye bye, sweetheart.

[screwtape]

Or what?

ST will speak for me this time

Okay, I'll speak for coram. 

[coram deo]
Or what?  Or coram will be forced to discuss the topics even less and resort to name calling even more.  Eventually it will get to the point where he says something like, "you guys are a bunch of jerks, just like I knew you would be.  fuck y'all. I'm leaving!  Bitches!"
[/coram deo]

You see coram, by addressing only the points that directly affect your ego, it sends the message that you are all out of arguments for the main point.  It serves as a distraction from the fact that you are out of ideas.  So instead of saying, "Jeeze, Screwtape, you are right, 2Sam and 1 Chron do appear to be at odds,"[1] or "Jeeze Screwtape, you are right about 'can't prove it didn't'," you focus on being called an idiot.  I should not have thrown you that life preserver.  That is probably the least important thing I posted, but you have used it to bail on the actual conversation.  But what did you expect with the kind of reply you gave me? 

You talked about having an intelligent conversation with me.  I'm up for it.  And I feel I have upheld my end of it. However, you have let me down.  I'll tell you what, I will forgive you and play nice.  I won't call you any more names on the condition that you revisit this post, look at everything wrong with it and rewrite it intelligently and honestly.  If you don't want to do that, the only other option is to admit you are an idiot.   

1.	you know, the intellectually honest thing to do

[MMcNeely]

If I may, I have a question.   Going back to David's three "ass-kickers" if God knows everything, he would know that this exact conversation would take place.  So, to avoid confusion (as he could have done with all Bible contradictions) couldn't he have said that two of David's ass-kickers died/retired/got replaced/etc. instead of leaving all this ambiguity?

[Astreja]

show me your science so I can take it to about 5 billion people on the earth and tell them "sirs! you are wrongs!

I think first we have to ensure that those 5 billion people have had the opportunity to get a decent science education, so that they can examine the evidence and draw their own conclusions.

I *did* get a good science education; therefore, it is natural for Me to see the Bible and other "holy books" as primitive nonsense.  However, if you do happen to have a Talking Snake(TM) on hand, please Fed-Ex it to Me at your earliest convenience.

[coram deo]

I *did* get a good science education; therefore, it is natural for Me to see the Bible and other "holy books" as primitive nonsense.

I had no idea how many scientists believe in god, but I bet quite a lot, of course quite a lot of disbelieving scientists also.

I am not saying "there is a bunch of people believes in god, so you should consider", but are you saying those bunch of scientists that believe in god are less educated than you?
Is that  your point? then why do I still believe in god? whereas my many employees(obviously less educated)disbelieve?

[coram deo]

If I may, I have a question.   Going back to David's three "ass-kickers" if God knows everything, he would know that this exact conversation would take place.  So, to avoid confusion (as he could have done with all Bible contradictions) couldn't he have said that two of David's ass-kickers died/retired/got replaced/etc. instead of leaving all this ambiguity?

I don't know
Maybe, that is what god wanted?
You see, us believers are NOT god's advocates, he doesn't need one.
We are his followers, servants.
I know certain aspects of god, but certainly not everything.
One thing I know for sure, god-man=creator-creation.
We are not in a position to ask god "hey man why did you make the tree of knowledge of good and evil?"
You can certainly try to ask him, but he won't answer or change anything.

I don't know about you, but do you really know and understand everything about universe, gravity, black hole.....etc. I am NOT asking for theories, theories are theories, not an answer.

If you don't have answers, then how are you trying to understand the ONE that created all those things?

Maybe you should know and understand about everything that god created first, and try to understand "god"? just a suggestion.