Author Topic: Three Wise Men and a star...  (Read 990 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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Three Wise Men and a star...
« on: February 21, 2016, 08:13:29 PM »
I know you’ve asked yourself the question “The story of the three wise men got me wondering: What if you did walk towards a star at a fixed speed?  What path would you trace on the Earth? Does it converge to a fixed cycle?”

And here is your answer.

http://www.what-if.xkcd.com/25/
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline CrystalDragon

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2016, 09:35:26 PM »
I never actually thought about that before.  I like the diagrams though, that's an interesting way of looking at it.

I remember years ago seeing something on the History Channel that the Star of Bethlehem might have been some sort of conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn that caused it to appear really bright in the sky.

Also, side note: it never said there were three wise men in the Bible, just three gifts, and so everyone assumes each wide man carried a gift.  There could have really been seven or ten for all we know.
Sometimes what is unknown is the most interesting.

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 08:23:46 AM »
The idea of the Wise Men with gifts has big problems: only Matthew mentions them, and the Syriac Church says there were 12 of them, probably representing the 12 tribes of Israel. If this were so, you would wonder why the Jews (i.e. the tribes of Israel) opposed Jesus. Perhaps it was wishful thinking... But perhaps they could have been any set of kings and 12 looked like a good number.

Unlike in nativity plays, the Wise Men did not arrive at the same time as the Shepherds, they visited Jesus at a house not a stable (Matthew 2:1–12). The fact that Herod (who in fact must have been dead at the time of Christ) allegedly ordered all children under the age of 2 to be slaughtered, indicates that they did not arrive until a good two years after the birth.

As far as any stars/planets, conjunctions are concerned,
(i) a conjunction does not last much longer than a few hours, so there would be nothing to follow.
(ii) there is a computer program, PyEphem, (http://rhodesmill.org/pyephem/), you can download and run to show where all the major stars and planets were at any point in history - you will see that there was no "star", from which we can conclude that the author of Matthew, who was not around at the time of the alleged birth, was not inspired by God to foresee such a program. The author of Matthew has been caught out in his lies.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline natlegend

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 04:03:01 PM »
Years (and years) ago some religious friend of mine, JW I think, said that the star had been put there by Satan to lead King Herod to Jesus. So in that case it would be a 'false' star and therefore untrackable.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Offline velkyn

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 07:17:21 AM »
^^^^ now that's one I hadn't heard before.   I used to run a planetarium (college work study) and the xmas star show was very popular with Christians needed evidence to support their "faith".   There's no evidence for the star nonsense and in a similar vein, no evidence for the "dark sky at the cruxifiction" nonsense. 
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Offline CrystalDragon

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 09:35:31 AM »
Years (and years) ago some religious friend of mine, JW I think, said that the star had been put there by Satan to lead King Herod to Jesus. So in that case it would be a 'false' star and therefore untrackable.

I have a friend who's a JW and they said the same thing, which surprised me because that was the first I had heard of it.
Sometimes what is unknown is the most interesting.

"It is always darker right before the light.  Or for some people, it just stays dark, but they don't seem to notice."

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 09:56:54 AM »
Years (and years) ago some religious friend of mine, JW I think, said that the star had been put there by Satan to lead King Herod to Jesus. So in that case it would be a 'false' star and therefore untrackable.

I have a friend who's a JW and they said the same thing, which surprised me because that was the first I had heard of it.
All this is quite incredible. How would anyone conclude this? What evidence is there? Do they have any idea how big a star is? Do they realise that the Chinese and other astronomers never saw anything like "The Star of Bethlehem" around that time?

The JW's idea is even more ridiculous than saying "Jesus teleports me to work 5 days a week." yet there are people willing to repeat this  "Star" garbage as if there were a grain of truth in it. How could there be?



Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline CrystalDragon

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2016, 10:20:51 AM »
Years (and years) ago some religious friend of mine, JW I think, said that the star had been put there by Satan to lead King Herod to Jesus. So in that case it would be a 'false' star and therefore untrackable.

I have a friend who's a JW and they said the same thing, which surprised me because that was the first I had heard of it.
All this is quite incredible. How would anyone conclude this? What evidence is there? Do they have any idea how big a star is? Do they realise that the Chinese and other astronomers never saw anything like "The Star of Bethlehem" around that time?

The JW's idea is even more ridiculous than saying "Jesus teleports me to work 5 days a week." yet there are people willing to repeat this  "Star" garbage as if there were a grain of truth in it. How could there be?

Maybe it was a light in the sky that God caused to appear that looked like a star but wasn't really one?
Sometimes what is unknown is the most interesting.

"It is always darker right before the light.  Or for some people, it just stays dark, but they don't seem to notice."

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2016, 10:41:13 AM »
Maybe it was a light in the sky that God caused to appear that looked like a star but wasn't really one?
What? I simply don't understand that. How would anyone do that? Magic? What would the light come from? Some big flashlight? Who made the batteries? Why couldn't the Egyptians, Herod and the Chinese see it? Was it a magic light?

If you need to defend a god by making things up, then the god isn't worth defending. Why would a god need to place a star (or a light) in the sky to guide someone? Why didn't he send them a letter and a map and tell them?

There was no star - there were no wise men, Herod was not around and there was no Massacre of the Innocents - Bethlehem of Judea did not exist in 1 AD; the nativity story is a fairytale. Let's forget that part.

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline natlegend

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2016, 03:46:13 PM »
Maybe it was a light in the sky that God caused to appear that looked like a star but wasn't really one?

How did they know to follow it? Did it maybe blink? Or was it a different colour?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

"Ray, when someone asks you, if you're a god, you say YES!!"

Offline CrystalDragon

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 03:55:05 PM »
Maybe it was a light in the sky that God caused to appear that looked like a star but wasn't really one?

How did they know to follow it? Did it maybe blink? Or was it a different colour?

Admittedly I'm not sure.  Maybe they got a psychic message from God, or they followed it because it looked so different from the others and they were curious.
Sometimes what is unknown is the most interesting.

"It is always darker right before the light.  Or for some people, it just stays dark, but they don't seem to notice."

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2016, 04:04:35 PM »
How did they know to follow it? Did it maybe blink? Or was it a different colour?

Admittedly I'm not sure.  Maybe they got a psychic message from God, or they followed it because it looked so different from the others and they were curious.

Or, the speculated explanation of "god put a light up there for them" is simply incorrect.

Don't forget about that possibility.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline velkyn

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016, 07:08:27 PM »
Admittedly I'm not sure.  Maybe they got a psychic message from God, or they followed it because it looked so different from the others and they were curious.

lots of people get psychic messages from this god.  It usually leads them to murder their own children or others. 

CD, your excuses for your god make it seem sillier and sillier.  Hey, God makes a big light.   Funny how it can do nothing more worthwhile.   And inventing ideas on "why" is like sitting around trying to close up the holes in Harry Potter or Dr. Who or Star Trek.  Great fun when its fiction.  Not so amusing when people are being murdered and tormented over such crap.   
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Offline Backspace

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Re: Three Wise Men and a star...
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2016, 12:40:46 PM »
There was no star - there were no wise men, Herod was not around and there was no Massacre of the Innocents - Bethlehem of Judea did not exist in 1 AD; the nativity story is a fairytale. Let's forget that part.

Gosh GB, you're just no fun.  Don't you realize thousands of atheist Chinese plastic mold makers rely on the Christian nativity for their livelihoods?  :o
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