But where do we draw the line. if Mao is not forgiveable but the average guy is, where is the line between what is fair to give a free pass and what is not.
So you are saying it is a fine line between the average guy and Mao Zhedung? It is a slippery slope from a little cursing and lust to murdering 50 million people? I am not sure how we can have a conversation. Your perspective is so ... what's the word?... bizarre, I am not sure how I can relate. I think your thesis is that all sin is equal in god's eyes, and so all sin is equally punishable. You've just not given me any kind of rational basis for that. You've just given me "where do you draw the line?" How the fuck should I know? I'm not in charge.
I just know the current system is a raw deal. Stalin, Hitler and Mao - collectively murderers of almost 100 million people - could ask for forgiveness and be golden. But I - collectively responsible for a little premarital sex, looking a pictures of people screwing, frequently swearing and a very infrequently lying - will be tortured forever because I cannot see any compelling reason to believe in a god.
If you remember, my post was in response to your question:
How can a Holy and Pure God allow unholiness?
My point was, it's god. It can allow whatever it wants. I do not see how some minor things would ruffle yhwh's feathers so mush as to warrant eternal punishment. And the system right now, is preposterous and unfair. Your response so far is... unconvincing.
According to what I know, if you want to be forgiven, you have to be willing to give up your own life and submit everything to God. It requires repentance.
I have not idea what this has to do with anything.
What I see more than anything else in these chats is an attitude of nothing is my fault, it is always someone elses fault and someone elses responsibility.
I have no idea where you get this from. You are the one saying there is no accountability. You are the one saying murdering 50 million people is forgivable.
Then holy is an unreasonable standard. And how would anyone even know what the standard is? It is not as if you have any empiracle testing. that is why holiness is godliness. It isn't something that is reasonably attainable, thus it is our inability to be holy that exposes our need for a savior. I think.
This just gets weirder. You agree with me. yhwh insisting on holinees is completely unreasonable. Your answer to the problem is a savior, though. My answer is for yhwh to unpucker his butthole and relax.
it is fair because the guy above and Mao have the same options, ask God for forgiveness or don't. We are each individually responsibility to decide for ourselves what or who we believe.
Missing the point. Why in the world would your god forgive murdering 50 million people? Where is the accountability?
]Gen 3:4 the serpant tells eve "you will not surely die" and then explains that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing Good and Evil. Gen 3:19 God reiterates that because they ate from the forbidden tree they will surely die.
serpent said: "your eyes will be opened"
What happened: "Then the eyes of both of them were opened"
serpent said: "you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
what happened: '22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil"'
Even yhwh admits it to the other gods.
serpent said: "You surely will not die!"
yhwh said: "17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die
Eve said: "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
sounds to me like she was making excuses. Like children do when caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
what else happened:
and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- ... 24So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
5So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
verdict: eating the apple did not kill them. As you can see they did not die in the day. They lived for a very very long time. There is nothing that says they were initially immortal. There is nothing that said they changed and became mortal. The ground was cursed and they had to work for a living. But that is a far cry from "in the day you eat it you will surely die." Did not happen.