Author Topic: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?  (Read 2984 times)

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Offline Codswallop

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Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« on: September 30, 2008, 08:44:55 PM »
Posted from another site:

The vaccine deniers have a poll that needs crashing. Jenny McCarthy has taken a slap at Amanda Peet for daring to believe science rather than woo.

So who do you side with: the sane and serious people who recognize that the anti-vax crowd is the greatest threat to public health in the modern world? Or the nutjobs who have decided we can use prescientific thinking and good wishes to prevent world-wide epidemics?
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
             --Gene Wilder as The Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles

Offline Deus ex Machina

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 09:19:14 PM »
97% to 3% - I'd say the poll already got crashed. Or the Internet has become an uncharacteristically sensible place all of a sudden.
No day in which you learn something is wasted.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 09:36:33 PM »
It was about 65/35 (Peet/McCarthy) before a blog entry in Pharyngula.  They know it.  The stupid people still were about 1/3rd of that web site's visitors.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

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Offline JTW

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 10:16:42 PM »
Posted from another site:

The vaccine deniers have a poll that needs crashing. Jenny McCarthy has taken a slap at Amanda Peet for daring to believe science rather than woo.

So who do you side with: the sane and serious people who recognize that the anti-vax crowd is the greatest threat to public health in the modern world? Or the nutjobs who have decided we can use prescientific thinking and good wishes to prevent world-wide epidemics?

I dunno if it's only religious whackjobs that disapprove of vaccines. There's a lot of tinfoil hat wearers out there too.

Offline Codswallop

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 11:14:59 PM »
I dunno if it's only religious whackjobs that disapprove of vaccines. There's a lot of tinfoil hat wearers out there too.

I dunno either. That's why I didn't say it. Where'd you get that idea?
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
             --Gene Wilder as The Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles

Offline JTW

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 12:45:05 AM »
I dunno if it's only religious whackjobs that disapprove of vaccines. There's a lot of tinfoil hat wearers out there too.

I dunno either. That's why I didn't say it. Where'd you get that idea?

Well why is Jenny fighting back in such a way? What reason?

Why is she concerned about vaccines in the first place?

I think if she believes vaccines or these kinds of injections hindered (and it depends on what injections - I'm sure she's fine with Polio and everything) her child..... The fact that she's willing to go to green vaccines organizations - there must be some sort of merit to her reasoning. And Amanda isn't helping by making a big deal out it. There is still good in vaccination. If you want to support vaccination you have to first think that it's helping though.

If not, you can extrapolate from there. Ok, I mean, leave the Tom Cruise shit out. But in Christianity it's not really a doctrine like it is in Scientology. You can come to conclusions like "we can pray and our child will be healed" and at the same time view vaccination as a gift from God. Which is why I brought in the religious connotations.

So there's a few different strikes against vaccination as I see it. There's this. There's the greedy pharmaceutical evil aspect to it. There is also the fact that it could be weakening ones system in some form (I haven't received a flu shot the whole time they've had it out and you know what? I feel strong and healthy and I don't get sick - in fact the people that get sick are the people that had the flu shot!)

I still believe in vaccination though. But these flu strains, I mean I could be fending them off just with my own immunity. I got polio, smallpox vaccination when I was a kid. I'm still all for that. But these new shots... just seems like fearmongering. Also I heard somewhere that if you use that alcohol based hand sanitizer shit your natural immunity on your hands eventually goes away, you rely on the sanitizer more and more, etc. I think this is kinda like a microcosm for the way my body would have handled the flu. I built up an immunity to it. Like Iocane powder.

Plato, Aristotle, Socrates? Morons.


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Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 05:06:35 AM »
Actually a use of google would show where the original link came from.

In 1988, a now discredited study reported a "possible" link between certain vaccines and autism.

Further studies have apparently refuted that claim but the public is not conditioned for the self correcting aspect of science; the press does NOT always help.

It has NOTHING to do with RELIGION or anything else. Simply FEAR based on PERCEIVED risk.

The lead scientist Dr. Wakefiled in the UK is under investigation and 10 out of 13 sceintists RETRACTED their original claims to a "possible" link.

10 minutes of google time found 3 rather interesting articles on the subject.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/07/05/autism-vaccine.html <-- Canadian study in 2006

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22542677/ <--- American study in 2008

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_68886.html <--- American double blind study in 2008 using the same laborories that found the original result!!!

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/2004/1051931.htm <--- Journal regrets study.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 05:16:44 AM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 05:24:50 AM »
Well why is Jenny fighting back in such a way? What reason?

Why is she concerned about vaccines in the first place?

Because she's a new age 'crystal person' and 'indigo child' woo believing whack job that is coming out with an anti-vaccine book and actively pushes nonsense 24/7;

The web site she tried to hide, care of the Wayback Machine at archive.org
http://web.archive.org/web/20061203045246/www.indigomoms.com/index2.html

Quote
Your host is Jenny McCarthy. Jenny has a 4-year-old son, Evan, who is a Crystal child. Being blessed with Evan led Jenny to have the inspiring vision to create this meeting place.

...Jenny interviewed Doreen Virtue, Ph.D., the author of more than 20 books about angels, Indigo Children and Crystal Children. Read the Interview!

...Learn how crystals can help you and your children in your daily routines. The uses for Rose Quartz, Amethyst, Clear Quartz, Moonstone and Hematite are listed in the Healing with Crystals article.

...We suggest you start with reading the heart-warming stories submitted by moms just like you. They're all located at Your Stories.

Visit the Indigo Cafe forum, THE place for moms to meet! Read about other moms and their children, and join in the discussions.

Find out if there is an Indigo Mommy+Me group in your area, or sign up to start one in your town!

Interesting articles are added every week to the Articles section. Learn more about the world of Indigos, charactertistics of Indigos, and parenting techniques. If you'd like to contribute an article, check out the Contact page for guidelines and emailing information.

Discussion: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55744

Bottom line: Jenny McCarthy is as dangerous as the fundamentalist whack jobs who want a theocracy because she's working on rotting society out from the inside.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 05:47:25 AM »
Bottom line: Jenny McCarthy is as dangerous as the fundamentalist whack jobs who want a theocracy because she's working on rotting society out from the inside.

Or the real bottom line is she is a symptom of the fact we have not conditioned the public to the self-correcting nature of science. ;-) (My post directly above links to the 1988 study that caused the problem. Sadly, these groups in their paranoia have apparently not been informed of all the subsequent studies that have refuted the original study!!!

You might compare this to all the remote viewing web sties pointing to an I.E.E.E paper on remote viewing by Uri Geller and all, despite the fact that many other studies have discredited that paper as well. http://www.espresearch.com/espgeneral/IEEE-329B.shtml <--- original paper http://www.mceagle.com/remote-viewing/refs/science/air/hyman.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Hyman <--- subsequent review of paper

Mabye this is the sort of thing we need to educate our children about!!! Science is self-correcting and thus, be wary that some studies may be refuted. One scientific publication is NOT enough.

People are sadly selective with respect to the research that they highlight ... Confirmation Bias?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 05:54:10 AM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 06:12:56 AM »
Education is important and ongoing, but that does not mean that I must pity the woman who wants to burn down my neighborhood because it is soulless and needs to be redesigned with Feng shui in mind.

She's an active promoter of ignorance.  I can't be understanding of the crystal / indigo / angel / anti-vaccine groupies.  These people aren't just misinformed ... they are wilful.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 06:16:22 AM by Hermes »
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 06:19:09 AM »
Education is important and ongoing, but that does not mean that I must pity the woman who wants to burn down my neighborhood because it is soulless and needs to be redesigned with Feng shui in mind.

Agree.

Feng Shui was never asserted by a scientist, ...

The vaccine/autism was hypothesized by a British study in 1988 ...

The educating part is getting the public used to the fact that studies get over turned by subsequent studies!!!

That is, that one study is not enough.

I found at least 3 studies refuting the link. 2 of them in 2008; one of them using the original labs involved in the 1988 study.

13 out of 10 researchers retracted their names from the 1988 study in 2004.

However, that means 3 scientists did NOT retract their names.

"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 06:38:24 AM »
Meanwhile, Ms. McCarthy is still spreading new-age nonsense and the old diseases are coming back.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 07:05:51 AM »
Meanwhile, Ms. McCarthy is still spreading new-age nonsense and the old diseases are coming back.

Yes!!! But it is NOT new age but a matter of misunderstanding on her part of the difference between CAUSE and COINCIDENCE. See below. The more I read, the more I want to praise some stuff DaveDave has talked about extensively about experimental design.

Hindsight bias and Confirmation Bias

Sadly, I LOST the link but apparently the AGE at which children "display the first symptoms of autism" is about the same age they typically get vaccines!!!

In addition, parents were somehow made aware of the original 1988 study.

McCarthy is NOT a scientist. She merely feels her kid was "normal" until around the time that he had his shots!!!

Fighting ignorance requires understanding where it comes from.

It is VERY sad, that said parents like McCarthy are then naturally suspicious of subsequent research based on their own
personal "experience".

What we see is a FLAW on how science is TAUGHT in schools? <--- Hypothesis

Probably too much emphasis on useless facts and to little on method, critical thought and the difference between cause and coincidence?  <--- refinement of hypothesis

Alternate hypothesis? Some people are just plain old stupid.



« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 07:11:02 AM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Codswallop

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 07:15:52 AM »
I dunno if it's only religious whackjobs that disapprove of vaccines. There's a lot of tinfoil hat wearers out there too.

I dunno either. That's why I didn't say it. Where'd you get that idea?

Well why is Jenny fighting back in such a way? What reason?

Why is she concerned about vaccines in the first place?

Not because she's religious, just tragically stupid. If that sounds redundant to you, I understand. The point of talking about it here is to demonstrate that it is very easy for harmful beliefs to slip in under the radar, whether by way of religious nonsense (e.g. Christian Scientists embrace homeopathy instead of real medicine) or pseudo-environmentalism (e.g. anti-vax but jobs talk about "green vaccines").

There is no real difference between religious woo and secular woo. Woo is not harmless. People die from it.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
             --Gene Wilder as The Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 07:19:47 AM »
Fighting ignorance is not just education.

It's also dealing with the purveyors.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 12:17:12 PM »
Fighting ignorance is not just education.

It's also dealing with the purveyors.

In her case, I suspect, its a matter of educating the purveyors and preventing the next generation of people from making the same mistakes, if possible. The way to do this would be to educate the Oprahs of the world, ...

Evidence exists to indicate WHY she believed what she did.  This is somewhat different than dealing with somebody who was brain washed.

The important thing is that rather talking about "woo" and all this crap, that one can piece together the root cause of her misinformation. If you know WHY she believes what she believes, you have some ability to combat it. An hour of googling appears to have uncovered the mystery of the "why".

Finding root causes to problems is always a great start.

...
There is no real difference between religious woo and secular woo. Woo is not harmless. People die from it.

We are not dealing with "woo". We are dealing with after effects of a poor study combined with the coincidence that the signs of autism are visible around the time that they are immunized. They hear the theory and they believe they have seen it with their own eyes!!! In the right environment, this can be fixed. Religion is pretty well unfixable. However, its possible the results could be deadly for some children potentially, on that I will agree with above.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 12:27:55 PM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline JTW

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 12:31:54 PM »
Wow, vaccines have no link to causing autism at all. Interesting.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 01:30:56 PM »
We are not dealing with "woo".

Yes.  We.  Are.  Look at her own web site;

http://web.archive.org/web/20061203045246/www.indigomoms.com/index2.html

The one spawns the other.  She's uninformed, but instead of getting informed she wallows like a happy pig in her ignorance.  That's not much of my concern.  That she actively promotes this nonsense is my concern.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Codswallop

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 04:49:47 PM »
We are not dealing with "woo".

Yes.  We.  Are.  Look at her own web site;

http://web.archive.org/web/20061203045246/www.indigomoms.com/index2.html

The one spawns the other.  She's uninformed, but instead of getting informed she wallows like a happy pig in her ignorance.  That's not much of my concern.  That she actively promotes this nonsense is my concern.

Woo is bullshit, whether pseudo-scientific bullshit or talking-to-your-dead-grandma bullshit.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
             --Gene Wilder as The Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2008, 07:33:20 AM »
EDIT: Not talking TO Codd but he made a statement the tone of which i disagree with and I've included references explaining WHY I disagree. Peace. ;-)

...
Woo is bulls**t, whether pseudo-scientific bulls**t or talking-to-your-dead-grandma bulls**t.

A person must know your woo in order to find ways to defeat it. In this case, some clever empathy and understanding of how parents like herself came to the WRONG logical conclusion, (Logical Fallacy: Confirmation Bias and False Causility)

EDIT: I'm addressing the tone of the WOO comment based on some statments made by medical researchers dealing with the Autism problem.

Advertisement to Defeat Misinformation Being Spread by McCarthy using EMPATHY rather than DISCREDIT  <--- Sadly might go over the time allotted for normal ad, but basic idea below

Deep Voice:  <--- Note to Codd, I had full facts yesterday, I'm in hurry. Assume REAL ad would have 100% of facts correct. All the information I got was from memory of articles I found yesterday quoting doctors ALREADY fighting the ignorance and understanding why the ignorance is there.

Imagine having a nice child who SEEMS normal.  <--- I'm empathizing but WEASLING in the TRUTH. ;-).
You are TOLD based on established science that it was SAFE and NECESSARY to immunize your child and you did so when he was this age <--- One I believe, forgot
Shortly afterwards when other kids were developing language skills, yours was starting to act strangely  <--- Canadian doctor explained Symptoms of Autism occur when language skills develop around time person gets lots of shots!!!

And then, you heard about a possibility that Autism was caused by these Vaccines? This was based on an study in 1988 iinvolving 13 medical researchers.

It is VERY natural to ASK whether the VACCINES caused the Autism OR whether you observed to things happening at the SAME time!!!

We KNOW measles KILLS people in the THIRD world. This disease is a REAL danger to our children. But we expect medicine to be safe.

Scientists asked the SAME Question.

In science major results are CONFIRMED by more scientists trying to reproduce the same RESULTS and coming up with better ways to test things.

In 2004 after further research, 10 of the 13 scientists involved in the 1988 study retracted their claims from the original paper, feeling tthere was NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE to establish the original link.

Scientists were STILL not satisfied. Further research was performed ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!

In 2006, several doctors in Montreal Canada completed a study, involving 28000 children. The result of the study was that being vaccinated did NOT alter ones change to get autism.

In 2008 in Los Angles another study was released observed the Autism rates in 250,000 kids. (The study took into account the fact that now the definition of Autism is broader than previously.) Despite the fact that VACCINATION rates have Dropped due to Autism fears, the scientists found the AUTISM rate STAYED the same!!! <--- I believe this was study summary

In 2008, ANOTHER study, tested samples from autistic and non-autistic children. The lab included the one used in 1988 study. The labs were not told which samples were from Autistic children and which were not. Results again were negative.

Many many more studies have been performed and each time the result is the same.


Do NOT trust this advertisement!!! Check the facts and remember they come from MANY sources all over the world, both government and private. You CANNOT afford to be wrong, your child's health is at stake.

Science continues its search for ways to fight autism. We WILL find a cure.

Sometimes Scientists  DO get things wrong but other SCIENTISTS always correct the mistakes. This is why results are ALWAYS duplicated by other scientists in other countries. This is why scientists constantly look for BETTER testing methods, to find the truth, they have to consider a lot of factors.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 08:58:54 AM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2008, 07:56:51 AM »
RM, thanks for the post.  Who we're dealing with is someone who doesn't care about facts.  Why do I say that?

  • Crystal power
  • Angels

These folks would rather take My Little Pony as the reason for rainbows over light refraction.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2008, 08:20:26 AM »
Hermes, Imagine you have NO SCIENCE BACKGROUND and you heard vaccines were linked to autism.
Quote
<--- Article refers to somebody who is pro-vaccine NOT McCarthy. ;-)
Her oldest child, a seven-year-old daughter, is autistic. The little girl was vaccinated with the MMR shots, which are given at about the age when autism's first symptoms are typically observed.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070716/vaccine_070716?s_name=&no_ads=


Note: I am 100% in agreement with respect to this fight on IGNORANCE and that McCarthy's compaigning is DESTRUCTIVE. I am only skeptical of the characterisation of her and of the best approach to counter the damage that she and the 1988 study have done.[/b] I applaud Codd's constant education efforts on logical fallacies and on his crack pot exposures like this one. I suspect she made an honest mistake which a Canadian doctor claims MANY people have made. My evidence for that is the statement she is said to have made to Oprah, as quoted in her bio.

RM, thanks for the post.  Who we're dealing with is someone who doesn't care about facts.  Why do I say that?

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These folks would rather take My Little Pony as the reason for rainbows over light refraction.

Her bio only mentioned that she told Oprah her kid was "normal" until he has his vaccine shots and CTV news in Canada quoted a doctor fighting the problem stating that an age coincidence exists.

Until she is shown with crystals, I will assume she is a normal uneducated person who fell victim to the logical fallacies I mentioned. Sadly, she is RICH and thus the damage of her ignorance is MAGNIFIED. (I am using Occam's razor here; its POSSIBLE she is a total anti-science moron but I suspect she is not a pot smoking crystal worshipping pyramid hippie girl with plastic surgery in stragic areas until given evidence about that.)

In any case, my idea is REALLY to deal with REASONABLE people who came to SIMULAR conclusions she did or more importantly with parents WORRIED about the effects of vaccination and being exposed to false propaganda.

In the US, 5000 parents with Autism tried to sue believing the same thing she did, minus the crystals

Recall, that the Gulf war vaccines are still in the public consiousness.

She believes she OBSERVED the facts first hand. That implies she is victim of logical fallacy, (like many parents in the same situation), that does NOT imply she does not "care" about facts. The fact we know she is IGNORANT is ANOTHER story.

Quote from: Wiki[[/quote
  <--- NO MENTION OF OTHER QUACK SCIENCE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Other interests

McCarthy began her writing career in 1997 with her first book, Jen-X: Jenny McCarthy's Open Book, an autobiography.

In recent years, McCarthy has written a successful series of four books about her experiences with pregnancy and raising her son, Evan.

    * Belly Laughs: The Naked Truth about Pregnancy and Childbirth (ISBN 978-0-7382-0949-4)
    * Baby Laughs: The Naked Truth about the First Year of Mommyhood (ISBN 978-0-525-94883-4)
    * Life Laughs: The Naked Truth about Motherhood, Marriage, and Moving On (ISBN 978-0-525-94947-3)
    * Louder than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism (ISBN 978-0-525-95011-0)[17]

McCarthy is also an occasional columnist for FHM magazine and has also recently appeared in a commercial for Weight Watchers after successfully losing and maintaining her post-pregnancy weight by following the program. She is also working with Talk About Curing Autism Now (TACA).
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 09:02:28 AM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2008, 09:10:29 AM »
Until she is shown with crystals, I will assume she is a normal uneducated person who fell victim to the logical fallacies I mentioned.


The web site she tried to hide, care of the Wayback Machine at archive.org
http://web.archive.org/web/20061203045246/www.indigomoms.com/index2.html

Quote
Your host is Jenny McCarthy. Jenny has a 4-year-old son, Evan, who is a Crystal child. Being blessed with Evan led Jenny to have the inspiring vision to create this meeting place.

...Jenny interviewed Doreen Virtue, Ph.D., the author of more than 20 books about angels, Indigo Children and Crystal Children. Read the Interview!

...Learn how crystals can help you and your children in your daily routines. The uses for Rose Quartz, Amethyst, Clear Quartz, Moonstone and Hematite are listed in the Healing with Crystals article.

The interview was wiped from McCarthy's site.  Here it is in a blog post;

http://www.pscelebrities.com/whitelightblacklight/2007/03/jenny-mccarthy-indigo-mom.htm

Here's one snippet of many that I could have posted from that article;

Quote
Doreen: The dreams are a way to show them that this is how you’re going to help us if we go this way, or this is how you’re going to prevent this from happening. Crystal children are so sensitive to world energies that they pick up on calamities like earthquakes and plane crashes around the world, so they’re not nightmares in the traditional sense of alligators under the bed or boogey men. These are real experiences they’re having. Same with their good dreams. They’re not normal dreams, their brains are discharging emotions from the day.

Jenny: I definitely know there is something going on. Evan stands up and has a full conversation in his bed. I’m like, oh my God. His eyes are open and he’s talking to me.

She is a whack job, and is actively promoting her BS.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Codswallop

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2008, 09:20:07 AM »
Told ya!
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
             --Gene Wilder as The Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2008, 09:21:34 AM »
...
She is a whack job, and is actively promoting her BS.

Thanks Hermes. You are sure web page is hers. Its not work safe so I cannot access it. However, as i said, that does look like evidence. (Again, I'm assuming no slander is involved and some people may have legit reason to slander her. However, you have provided some measure of evidence. Ideally, I'd prefer reliable news sources on her interest in Crystals ...)

Imaginary +1!!! Moose bows to your posting excellance.

In any case, other parents are NOT whack jobs who have been left with the same impression as her. Attacking her character will not help fight the misinformation. Best way to do that is to provide informaiton and that is what my ad proposal would do.


Told ya!

I may indeed have been wrong in my disagreement on Codd's point about her WOO; I can't access web site here at work; its filtered. Ideally I would have like to see this from a reliable news source. Or a link from a web site that an news source attributes to her.

I consider crystals Woo but logical fallacies to be honest stupidty/ignorance rather than Woo. ;-).

(Note: I'm responding to what Codd said here and am not talking "to" him.) If I am wrong, I'm not afraid to admit it.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 09:31:50 AM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2008, 09:33:53 AM »
Archive.org's WayBack machine scrapes the first page of all web sites on a regular basis;

The Wayback Machine
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

indigomoms.com
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://indigomoms.com

For example, Google, Yahoo, and anything.com;

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://google.com
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://yahoo.com
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://anything.com

As for the blog post that copied the interview I quoted from, it may not be from indigomoms.com, but I see no reason to doubt it at this point.  If I were doing serious research, I'd verify that.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2008, 09:37:50 AM »
Hermes you ROCK

I concede my wrongness.

Still curious why her bio misses that, ...

I guess Codd was right then, she is whack job

I stand corrected. In any case, some ordinary mom's could be fooled by the logical fallacies rather than belief in crystals and pseudo-science.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 09:40:29 AM by rickymooston »
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2008, 09:46:28 AM »
[tips hat]
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline rickymooston

Re: Crash This Poll: Amanda Peet or Jenny McCarthy?
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2008, 02:26:17 PM »
I wanted something from one of the major outlets. Found one.    Reading the entire interview, she sounds a bit like a whack job; no crystals  but does not sound like science to me.

I agree that this qualifies as "Woo".


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,364496,00.html
Quote
his is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," June 6, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JAMIE COLBY, GUEST HOST: Jenny McCarthy already well-known for her beauty and her winning personality. But there is another side to the star. When he was two and a half years old, Jenny's son was diagnosed with autism and since then the actress has become an advocate in the fight against the disorder, helping not only her son but thousands of other kids and their parents.

Well, on Wednesday she and boyfriend Jim Carey were in Washington to lead the Green Our Vaccines march and rally and while Jenny was in town, she went "On the Record" with Greta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: So, Jenny, what brings you to Washington? I should say welcome to Washington, too.

JENNY MCCARTHY: Thank you. Welcome back, right? Huge rally. The most rally will be of my lifetime but something I came up with about two months ago called Green Our Vaccines. It's something that's really important, really meaningful to me. My son Evan was diagnosed with autism in 2005 and since September, since my book came out, I've been traveling across the country and I've hit about two cities a week through September. Talked to about 50,000 parents face to face and their stores were so similar to mine that I said it's time for a rally for people to see the true faces of autism and to turn the lenses on them.
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Watch Greta's interview with Jenny McCarthy

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, now you've got the shirt on, "Green Our Vaccines", what exactly is that? What does that mean?

MCCARTHY: Green our vaccines, people get so confused that we're an autism community, that we are anti-vaccine and I kind of came up with a slogan to say, no, we are a very intelligent group of people that understand that vaccines save lives. But we're also saying that vaccines are sometimes harmful to some kids and a lot of the ingredients, like the mercury, the aluminum, the ether, the antifreeze, we think need to be removed and a lot of people say the mercury has been removed since 2002 and I beg journalists to go online and look at the FDA Web site, look at the CDC Web site and count the 11 shots that still contain mercury.

Every time I hear it I go, why are they lying, it's the same kind of cover- up story, we believe, because we witnessed firsthand the effects of certain toxins and certain live viruses on our kids and the other part of the slogan was "Too Many, Too Soon" because in 1983 the shot schedule was 10 vaccines given and today there are 36 shots given. With the escalation of shots, with the escalation of autism. Literally.

VAN SUSTEREN: Autism is a whole sort of range, a whole spectrum and it's so terrible for the child and the family and if you're at the bottom range. And if you can't afford it and you've got the pressure on the marriage, people don't really understand how horrible and how you love a child so much and it is completely disruptive to the child and the family. It is incomprehensible.

MCCARTHY: I can tell you what's even more incomprehensible. It's having a perfect child. A child that says mama and wants to hug you and be held and love you and then all of the sudden that child is gone in front of your eyes. It was like every mom explains, it's like a spaceship came and stole the child's soul. I had a child that was smiling and hugging me and calling me mama and no longer knows I'm there. Like that.

VAN SUSTEREN: How old is Evan?

MCCARTHY: Evan is now - he just turned six years old.

VAN SUSTEREN: And in the spectrum, where is Evan?

MCCARTHY: Evan was undiagnosed with autism.

VAN SUSTEREN: So if I met Evan?

MCCARTHY: You would never know in a million years.

VAN SUSTEREN: So how does it manifest itself?

MCCARTHY: Autism?

VAN SUSTEREN: No, Evan's autism.

MCCARTHY: It doesn't.

VAN SUSTEREN: I wouldn't know Evan is autistic?

MCCARTHY: No, when I take him to neurologists - this is another - there's like two controversies with autism. It's how they got there and the possibility of recovery. Recovery, the real thing, it's not a cure, a really great analogy I give is autism is like getting hit by a bus. You can't be cured but you can recover all those lost things that you once had.

VAN SUSTEREN: Relearn the skills?

MCCARTHY: Relearn but also you might have a booboo here and there but Evan, once I looked into how this generation of moms have been healing lots of their kids, there's thousands and thousands of recovery stories. I follow those people and the reason why the medical community doesn't support is because us moms aren't treating autism, we are treating a vaccine injury. And when you treat the vaccine injury, the autism goes away, minimizes or disappears. When Evan goes to a neurologist now because he still has seizures, the main thing they keep saying to me is he never had autism to begin with. He never had autism.

Well, really, he was diagnosed by UCLA and the California state where he had in home therapy for 40 hours a week for an entire year. You're damn right this kid had autism. This kid had no language, two to three words, and now he's completely conversational because I detoxed his body, I did the diet, all the things the medical community doesn't support.

And you can imagine what these moms are going through because we're going through how this kid became autistic and how to heal them are completely two controversial things.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what is the most direct thing people can do to help now? What can help?

MCCARTHY: You can call your congressman.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

MCCARTHY: You can walk to your pediatrician's office and demand an alternative schedules.

VAN SUSTEREN: For the vaccinations.

MCCARTHY: For the vaccines because really my main goal right now is to stop the increase of autism and I really do believe by delaying the vaccine schedule, separating them, do not give eight shots at once. Hanna Polling (ph), that federal court case that was just conceded, her autism was triggered by vaccines due to a visit where her doctor gave eight shots at once.

Don't do more than one shot in a visit. Do you see what I'm saying? Not to not vaccinate. Space them out, ask for mercury-free. Make sure your child is not sick before you vaccinate. Your child does not have a good immune system. How is it supposed to detox the vaccine? Test your child for an immune system. Make sure they have really good glutothion. Glutothion is your body's naturally antioxidant to detox these things.

So you can go in and I want people to go in empowered, to take safety of their children back into their own hands, ask questions and demand things.

VAN SUSTEREN: So at the rally, how many people there? Do you have a guess?

MCCARTHY: We had about 8,000 people from across the country, pretty much every state.

VAN SUSTEREN: And Jim Carey, of course, is helpful, he has put his name on this, helping out.

MCCARTHY: Well, Jim has been there through the whole journey. He started with - we started dating not too long after Evan was diagnosed but he saw a kid that was completely unresponsive to him. That didn't care that Jim Carey was in the room, let alone anything. And he watched me kind of heal Evan and watched me change his diet and detox him and watch Evan go crazy through detox and witness this firsthand and he saw all these other people coming up and saying the same stories and he finally said, I can't be a silent supporter anymore, I need to go to this rally and speak from my heart. And I said, you go, man.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I have to tell you. He was quite proud of what you've been doing. I just talked to him a minute out there and he was very proud that you are heading this.

Anyway, thank you and good luck.

MCCARTHY: Thank you.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.