Atheists and Gun Ownership/Usage

[bosey926]

     Personally I completely support the second amendment to our constitution.  Although, some of the laws on guns are so vague and non-restrictive that acts such as the Virginia Tech shooting are allowed to occur. 
     In Ohio's it says that with the 12 hour course (10 educational, 2 shooting) that you only need to pass the criminal background check and be trained by an approved official of the NRA, Department of Natural Resources, or Peace Officer Training Commission.  What about mental health or physical health?  That is my main problem with the concealed carry aspect of my question.
     To the hunting.  I have been a part time hunter, but avid supporter of the sport since I was 8 or 9 years old.  Any game you can think of.  Today, though, I have a huge problem with the fact that it still called a 'sport' or 'hunting' when I see morbidly obese men out there shooting an animal with a rifle or shotgun from at least 50 feet away(and up to hundreds).  The animal(s) have no chance of survival and deprives the entire idea of hunting being hunting.  When I hunt, it is only with a bow and arrow(not crossbow) and a knife.  That is unless it is an enormous game like bear or elk.  Something that can live through one or two bows and still maim or kill you.  Then I support carrying something for protection.
     Recreational use of firearms is what I am the largest supporter of and is what I feel most gun enthusiasts protect their rights for.  The exhilaration one gets when firing a .357 or a 12 gauge slug shot down the range is well... fucking sweet.  The fact that all of these racist militias around the U.S. are on the rise and are walking around with AK-47s, M4-ARs, and MP5s only irritates me because it distorts the true feelings of most gun owners/enthusiasts.

[JesusHChrist]

I don't hunt, but have a concealed carry permit and shoot for fun. By a gun-grabbers definition, I probably have an "arsenal".

Life NRA member; which frequently puts me at odds with some of the pro-gun candidates.

I've been an avid gun user since I was a kid.

[IAmFirst]

I have no problem with the second amendment or with responsible gun owners. (I'm sure you're one of them, Jesus H. Christ. )

For me personally? I'm terrified of them. Cops make me uncomfortable just because they have them. I never plan to own one, mainly because I don't think I'd be a very good shot. If I ever needed to shoot, I'll probably miss, making life a little worse for the moment.

I also don't think you'll ever find me in that Starbuck's that allows guns in their store. Americans + caffeine + guns = stay away.

[Agamemnon]

I own several antique handguns, two shotguns, a scoped .30-06, a Kentucky longrifle which was hand made by my grandfather, and a compound hunting bow. I hunt occasionally and am an NRA member, although grudgingly so.

I can't stand the NRA. The only reason I became a member was because my local shooting range required it. I get sick of the constant stream of "OMG, CONGRESS-IS-ON-THE-BRINK-OF-TAKiNG-AWAY-ALL-YOUR-GUNS-AND-AMMO-SEND-US-MONEY" bullshit they send. Current gun laws aren't a problem for me and I think the scare tactics that the NRA uses are just nonsense.

[xphobe]

Life NRA member; which frequently puts me at odds with some of the pro-gun candidates.

Did you mean "anti-gun"?


I'm an NRA member too, although I'm tired of getting more junk mail from them every year than the dues I actually pay them.  I'll tell you bitches when I want to renew, ok?  Quit wasting my money!

I completely support the 2nd amendment.  I also believe that requiring regular proficiency and safety classes and licensing of operators (not guns) is competely in line with the spirit of the "well-regulated militia" clause, which does put me at odds with some of my fellow pro-gun people.

I used to have a CHL but I let it expire.  In Texas anyone can keep a gun in their car, and if I were in a situation where my life depended on my having a gun, I'd have one, little plastic card or no.  But I try to avoid being in those situations in the first place.

I like recreational target shooting and high power rifle competition.  I appreciate the skills involved in hunting but I have no interest killing animals for sport.  If I needed them for food it would be a completely different thing.

And yeah I have a few

And I try to patronize Starbucks whenever I can 

[JesusHChrist]

Life NRA member; which frequently puts me at odds with some of the pro-gun candidates.

Did you mean "anti-gun"?

Nope pro-gun. Some of the pro-gun candidates are religious loons. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

[xphobe]

ah, gotcha.  Yes, I feel your pain.  Seems like most of the pro-gun candidates are religious loons.

[Agamemnon]

If there's one thing I like about being an NRA member it is the sheer joy of shattering the stereotypes of the religious right. They love their package deal fallacies.

I keep my NRA card with me at all times just for that purpose.

[xphobe]

I have my NRA sticker on the back window of my car, right next to my Darwin Fish, and my "godisimaginary.com" decal

Let'em figure that out.

[truehyuga]

Never really looked into it much, but I am for the personal purchase of sidearms as protective weaponry, and do not like the idea of hunting.
I personally believe that only rubber, non-lethal slugs should be sold to the public.

[Bereft_of_Faith]

Re second amendment:  I personally disagree with the interpretation of the arms clause.  It seems to me that the 'well regulated militia' statement is directly linked to the 'right to bear arms' statement, which is linguistically dependent on it.  Apparently the SCOTUS disagrees, so, as a US citizen,  I have to accept the entirety of the Second Amendment as currently interpreted.  People have the right to have guns.

I would not own a gun.  If the situation arises that demands the use of a gun, I'd rather not have one.  Like tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and sickness, I'm just hoping to avoid such a disaster.  If it happens... well, that's that.

Even though I'm against owning a gun for myself, and disagree with the interpretation of the Constitution, I recognize that it has been interpreted as a general right to bear arms.  This should never be an election issue.

[Rokusho]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCgCceg042w&feature=related[/youtube]

[bosey926]

Life NRA member; which frequently puts me at odds with some of the pro-gun candidates.

     This is why I never joined the NRA.  I frequently went and fired at my local NRA range from about when I was 15 to when I was 18.  That was when I really started paying attention to politics.  So when I realized that my money would have went to a bunch of religious chubby old rednecks, I never went back.  I have always fired at my buddies house or when I was on the USMC JROTC marksmanship team.

Really good post Rokusho.  That episode made me laugh real hard. 

[pingnak]

Used to have a 12 ga 'boom stick' & a .45.  Took 'em to a gun shop and let them sell them for me because I was too lazy even to keep taking them out once a year to clean them.

I'm not too worried about the zombie hordes coming, and by the time I take off the #@*$ gun locks, the murdering cultists would already have me tied to a stake and be piling up kindling.

[Eddy Swirl]

I have always fired at my buddies house 

Drive-by, or snipers nest?

[Alzael]

I'm not an american, so I've never understood this bizarre fascination with guns. It honestly seems fairly childish to me, like the sort of thing I grew out of when I was ten. Sure it's cool to watch gunfights in movies, but the reality of one is much different. I don't have problem with someone owning one per se, but I can't for the life of me understand why you'd want one, unless you're into something like competition shooting. But like I said, I'm not an american.

[koberulz]

     Personally I completely support the second amendment to our constitution.  Although, some of the laws on guns are so vague and non-restrictive that acts such as the Virginia Tech shooting are allowed to occur. 

It wasn't under-restriction, it was over-restriction. VT campus was a legally gun-free zone. Had those restrictions not been in place, someone would have taken the guy out long before it got as bad as it did.

[snkiesch]

I am an antique gun collector. Mostly singleshot and Marlins.  The Marlin collection goes back to two Ballard's, 1878 revolver,1891 22 cal, 5 1892 22 cal, 1893 in most of the early cals, a few Stevens, Winchesters and Colts.  Somewhere between 75 and 100 at my house and another 50 or so at my daughter's.

It has been over 20 years since I have hunted, my dog got too old, Time goes by so fast it probably been 5 years since I shot clay pigeons(I have about 10 antique shotguns) and another 10 since I reloaded for the rifles to shoot paper.

I am in favor of the 2nd but quit the NRA because of the begging for money and endorsement of candidates that the only thing we agree with is the 2nd.  I had two antique S&W pistols stole from the house and they would not pay for them even if they claim you have insurance .

[TopolX]

I'm not American but I do respect their love of firearms. People are equal (or near enough) when armed with a gun. The UK has lower murder rates then the US but the nature and unfairness of the murders makes them in someways worse. When a thug can just kick an 94 year old man to death in his own home or a gang of 20 thugs beat someone to death outside a nightclub it makes you think how could it honestly be worse if guns were legal. Also the criminals seem to able to get their hands on guns anyway so it's not like crooks would be given more power. Also we have a problem in that it's legal for those who live in rural areas to own fire arms and as the Derrick Bird incident showed we can still get killing sprees because of this.

[xphobe]

Also the criminals seem to able to get their hands on guns anyway so it's not like crooks would be given more power.

Isn't it funny how that happens?  We have a saying here "If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns".  But the gun-banners keep telling us we're wrong about that.  I suppose American criminals wouldn't dream of using an illegal gun.  That would be breaking a law... 

[Seppuku]

Also the criminals seem to able to get their hands on guns anyway so it's not like crooks would be given more power.

That argument would work if murders involving firearms in the UK weren't considerably a LOT lower than they are in the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/pie-T/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

You'll notice South Africa is also at the top, a country with gun laws similar to the US. Total gun murders - >9000 (USA) vs 14(UK). I know there's no 'per capita' given, but even if you do the maths yourself, it's still a lot lower.

So, it makes you wonder how many crooks actually have or use firearms in the UK.

When a thug can just kick an 94 year old man to death in his own home or a gang of 20 thugs beat someone to death outside a nightclub it makes you think how could it honestly be worse if guns were legal.

I don't think this problem is exclusive just to the UK or countries where it it's illegal to carry a firearm and I'm fairly sure they don't happen that frequently. The media often reports such cases, but then such news is often shocking enough to report and therefore gives them more money.

[wright]

Don't have a gun, very rarely fire them recreationally (friends' or relatives' weapons), but support the right (in the USA) to own and use them responsibly.

All the pro-gun people I know are very responsible and conscientious about the maintenance and safety of their weapons. A total ban, at any community level, would be a serious mistake.

[bgb]

I'm a hard core goose hunter.  I hate it when the righties say owning a gun is a god given right.  So is marrying who you want or reproduction choices.  Take away their guns and religion is what they fear most.

[Gnu Ordure]

All the pro-gun people I know are very responsible and conscientious about the maintenance and safety of their weapons.

Wright, may I introduce you to Ananukia, an 18-year-old from New York? I believe he's pro-gun, as he owns one; though he's not supposed to (here):

I have a Thompson Contender, I'm not supposed to have.

[Jim]

All the pro-gun people I know are very responsible and conscientious about the maintenance and safety of their weapons. A total ban, at any community level, would be a serious mistake.

Hah.  So let me get this right: the gun folks you know are conscientious, so therefore any gun ban would be a mistake?  Correct?

I am not a gun owner.  I live in a state that makes it very tough to own one... and given the particular city I live in, I understand the intentions of the law.  But, with the recent SCOTUS ruling starting to percolate down to the state level, that could change the laws here.  If they do change, I will probably get a gun and learn to use it.

Over many years, my attitude toward such things has changed.  I don't need a gun, don't feel I need one.  I don't hunt.  But, several discussions here and at ATT have moved my opinion around, especially some specific discussions I've had regarding the constitutional ruling.  There is one thing gun activists have absolutely correct -- when you do not exercise a state-sanctioned right, you lose it.  This article from DailyKos sums up my view of it very nicely.

[Agamemnon]

I have my NRA sticker on the back window of my car, right next to my Darwin Fish, and my "godisimaginary.com" decal

Let'em figure that out.

No way the rednecks around here could handle that. Their heads would explode. Sacrilege.

[Alzael]

Also the criminals seem to able to get their hands on guns anyway so it's not like crooks would be given more power.

Isn't it funny how that happens?  We have a saying here "If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns".  But the gun-banners keep telling us we're wrong about that.  I suppose American criminals wouldn't dream of using an illegal gun.  That would be breaking a law... 

Which of course provides perfect justification for making it much easier for them to get guns. Seriously, criminals can get guns, so let's make it really easy for everyone to have a gun. Which of course gives criminals a much easier time getting guns, because now they have legal and illegal means of doing so at their disposal. Is this really the logic you're going with?

Speaking in regards to other countries, America has a rate of gun-related homicides that goes very high. A 2000 set of statistics from Wikipedia shows the homicide rate involving guns was 65% percent. The only countries higher than that were Cambodia and Guatamala. Slovakia was right below America at 45%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

The thing is that it really has really has very little to do with gun controll in and of itself. Crime rates are due much more to social factors and conditions within the society that just whether or not people have guns. Giving people more guns will only make it easier for deaths to occur, but taking away guns doesn't actually solve the problem because the guns are a sympton of the problem, not the problem itslef which is the poor social conditions that leads to the high rates of violence and crimes.

[xphobe]

Except criminals do not have legal means to get guns.  Criminals are not legally allowed to own them.  How about we enforce more strongly the existing laws we have, before we make up new ones that punish law-abiding citizens?

[Seppuku]

I can understand why America would need to keep guns legal - after all, with your current availability of guns and how happy criminals are to use them, the immediate banning of guns may make things worse, not better. In any other situation, the argument would be pretty weak, after all, whilst it's not impossible for a criminal to get a hold of a gun when they're illegal, but in countries where it IS illegal, like the UK you can actually see that far fewer murders involving firearms are happening and the really US suffers for gun-related murder and I imagine it's a very difficult issue to solve.

To put it into perspective, for the UK to match America's gun related murders, you'd have to multiply the current statistic by ~624 (UK - 15, USA - 9,369, as I posted above). Now, I don't have per capita, but considering the US population is only ~5 times that of the UK (Population - 61,414,062 (UK), 307,006,550 (US)), then it won't take a genius to work out that the rate in the UK per capita is a LOT lower than that of the US. We probably could compare with other countries too, but I'd argue that maybe a society where the public doesn't have easy and legal access to a personal armoury is safer, but of course, there's a number of factors that affects statistics, you can't place problems solely down to gun use and I think there's a lot any country can do to keep its crime down and there are many reasons why countries like the US and UK suffer in crime figures (UK still suffers, whilst it's not as big for violent crime) whilst the likes of Iceland almost seem crime free, so there's plenty of other things that need to be considered, such factors might help the US where the banning of guns wouldn't.