Giant Crystal Cave (Holy ****)

[Ananukia]

No. It was designed along with the rest of the universe. I believe, and it is totally possible, that the universe was designed with all it's properties, with everything that is in it because it is ALL a part of the universe. These crystals are not seperate from the universe, so they were designed as well.

Somehow I knew you would not get it. Of course, I do not think that you are that stupid so I will assume that you are f**king with me.

Of course I am not surprised. Most of you cannot understand the concept that free will and pre-determination can exist simultaneously.

You believe in a magical wizard that made everything, yet hides from us, yet you also believe he knows what's going to happen to us....yet we still have a choice...even though he already knows what we are going to do.


Gotcha.

Read my edit of that post. Not a wizzard, but a being beyond your understanding.

Gotcha?  I think I am the one who got you.

...W-I-Z-A-R-D


I find it stange that you worship a character that is a lot like saruman, always commanding his orcs followers to rape and pillage neighboring gondor countries.

also pos, you are starting to rant, I thought you promised to stay off the hard stuff?

[Ananukia]

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

You can't have your cake and eat it to.

Either he knows what you are going to do, or he doesn't.

[Goodkat]

Most of you cannot understand the concept that free will and pre-determination can exist simultaneously.

Um, that's because they can't. If pre-determinism is true, then everything that happens was bound to happen, meaning you have no choice.

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

Because it's a logical fallacy?

[nihilanth]

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

You can't have your cake and eat it to.

Either he knows what you are going to do, or he doesn't.

Well I have my cake and I am munching on it.  We still make the choices. It is our linear timeline and we make the choices in it. We can only do that from our point of view.

God does not exist in a linear timeline. Free will and Him knowing our choices go hand in hand.

Just like He knew those crystals would form when He created the universe.

[nihilanth]

Most of you cannot understand the concept that free will and pre-determination can exist simultaneously.

Um, that's because they can't. If pre-determinism is true, then everything that happens was bound to happen, meaning you have no choice.

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

Because it's a logical fallacy?

At this point, logic fails.

[Goodkat]

Most of you cannot understand the concept that free will and pre-determination can exist simultaneously.

Um, that's because they can't. If pre-determinism is true, then everything that happens was bound to happen, meaning you have no choice.

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

Because it's a logical fallacy?

At this point, logic fails.

So God can defy logic?

[nihilanth]

Most of you cannot understand the concept that free will and pre-determination can exist simultaneously.

Um, that's because they can't. If pre-determinism is true, then everything that happens was bound to happen, meaning you have no choice.

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

Because it's a logical fallacy?

At this point, logic fails.

So God can defy logic?

Our perception of it.

[Ananukia]

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

You can't have your cake and eat it to.

Either he knows what you are going to do, or he doesn't.

Well I have my cake and I am munching on it.  We still make the choices. It is our linear timeline and we make the choices in it. We can only do that from our point of view.

God does not exist in a linear timeline. Free will and Him knowing our choices go hand in hand.

Just like He knew those crystals would form when He created the universe.

Ok, now present proof, or maybe a bible quote that states
"God does not exist in a linear timeline. Free will and Him knowing our choices go hand in hand."

Or I could just assume you are making shit up.

[Goodkat]

Most of you cannot understand the concept that free will and pre-determination can exist simultaneously.

Um, that's because they can't. If pre-determinism is true, then everything that happens was bound to happen, meaning you have no choice.

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

Because it's a logical fallacy?

At this point, logic fails.

So God can defy logic?

Our perception of it.

I suppose that means God could tell you something that isn't true, without lying. Or cause someone to die, without killing them.

[nihilanth]

Most of you cannot understand the concept that free will and pre-determination can exist simultaneously.

Um, that's because they can't. If pre-determinism is true, then everything that happens was bound to happen, meaning you have no choice.

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

Because it's a logical fallacy?

At this point, logic fails.

So God can defy logic?

Our perception of it.

I suppose that means God could tell you something that isn't true, without lying. Or cause someone to die, without killing them.

I told you you would not get it. I am not surprised. I know others who understand it. I understand it, but you never will.

Well, you might someday. We are the ones responsible for our actiions regardless of whether God already knows them.

[Ananukia]

Well, got any proof of this time traveling god? I'll even let you use the bible.

Or maybe you like making shit up.

[Goodkat]

Most of you cannot understand the concept that free will and pre-determination can exist simultaneously.

Um, that's because they can't. If pre-determinism is true, then everything that happens was bound to happen, meaning you have no choice.

You still make the choices and I am not getting into this. Atheists cannot understand it.

Because it's a logical fallacy?

At this point, logic fails.

So God can defy logic?

Our perception of it.

I suppose that means God could tell you something that isn't true, without lying. Or cause someone to die, without killing them.

I told you you would not get it. I am not surprised. I know others who understand it. I understand it, but you never will.

Well, you might someday. We are the ones responsible for our actiions regardless of whether God already knows them.

Actually, I used to "understand" it, when I was 13. Now I realize that not only did I not understand it, no one does, they just convince themselves that it's true. Could you please answer my question.

[nihilanth]

Well, got any proof of this time traveling god? I'll even let you use the bible.

Or maybe you like making s**t up.

God in the bible is described as....

I AM-- which suggests that ther is no was or will be, He just is.

The Alpha and Omega, the Begining and the end. -- Which suggests that He exists simultaneously throughout our timeline.

Also in the bible it says "For God a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day." Which suggests that our timeline is different for Him than it is for us.

Happy now?

[Ananukia]

Well, got any proof of this time traveling god? I'll even let you use the bible.

Or maybe you like making s**t up.

God in the bible is described as....

I AM-- which suggests that ther is no was or will be, He just is.

The Alpha and Omega, the Begining and the end. -- Which suggests that He exists simultaneously throughout our timeline.

Also in the bible it says "For God a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day." Which suggests that our timeline is different for Him than it is for us.

Happy now?

so he's eternal big fucking deal, that does not deal with free will though.

[Azdgari]

Guys, give up.  Poseidon has already stated that logic does not apply.  Hence, reason is not useful in dealing with him.  He's conceded the logical portion of the argument.

[nihilanth]

so he's eternal big f**king deal, that does not deal with free will though.

Yes it does. He does not make the decisions for us, we do.

Free will and God knowing everything we will do exist simultaneously because we are stuck in this linear timeline and He is not.

You know, this cake is quite tasty.

[Sota]

so he's eternal big f**king deal, that does not deal with free will though.

Yes it does. He does not make the decisions for us, we do.

Free will and God knowing everything we will do exist simultaneously because we are stuck in this linear timeline and He is not.

You know, this cake is quite tasty.

It's a cake only a few people could find delicious.

[Azdgari]

Alright, I'm going against my own advice here.

Poseidon, a god that follows such a description has, itself, no free will.  It already exists at all points in time, so there's only one way it can act.

[nihilanth]

Alright, I'm going against my own advice here.

Poseidon, a god that follows such a description has, itself, no free will.  It already exists at all points in time, so there's only one way it can act.

I edited that for you.

Actually he would have to be doing everything all at once. Not one way, but every way perfectly and simultaneiously. However, who knows the mind and complexity of God? He just IS.

I can only scratch the surface.

[Ananukia]

Do you even realize how retarded you sound?

[jetson]

Fear of God, Love of God, Hate of God. Which are you?

Atheists are none of these.  Christians are typically all three, as there is no other way - sadly.

[Goodkat]

Nihilanth, http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=1594.msg31633#msg31633

[nihilanth]

Do you even realize how retarded you sound?

Fuck you too.

[Azdgari]

Alright, I'm going against my own advice here.

Poseidon, a god that follows such a description has, itself, no free will.  It already exists at all points in time, so there's only one way it can act.

Actually he would have to be doing everything all at once. Not one way, but every way perfectly and simultaneiously. However, who knows the mind and complexity of God? He just IS.

I can only scratch the surface.

You're not scratching anything's surface, Poseidon, you're just making stuff up.  Your quoted post attests to this.  The real question is, why do you take your own made-up stuff so seriously?

(regarding your name, you told me not to call you Pos, you never told me not to call you Poseidon.  It's a cooler name than "nihilanth" imo)

[nihilanth]

Alright, I'm going against my own advice here.

Poseidon, a god that follows such a description has, itself, no free will.  It already exists at all points in time, so there's only one way it can act.

Actually he would have to be doing everything all at once. Not one way, but every way perfectly and simultaneiously. However, who knows the mind and complexity of God? He just IS.

I can only scratch the surface.

You're not scratching anything's surface, Poseidon, you're just making stuff up.  Your quoted post attests to this.  The real question is, why do you take your own made-up stuff so seriously?

(regarding your name, you told me not to call you Pos, you never told me not to call you Poseidon.  It's a cooler name than "nihilanth" imo)

I did provide biblical examples so no I was not making it up. Or did you miss that part?

[Goodkat]

Nihilanth, http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=1594.msg31633#msg31633 !!!!!!!

[Ananukia]

Do you even realize how retarded you sound?

Fuck you too.

I will take that as a "yes".

Thank you for making a retarded argument though.

[Azdgari]

Alright, I'm going against my own advice here.
Poseidon, a god that follows such a description has, itself, no free will.  It already exists at all points in time, so there's only one way it can act.

Actually he would have to be doing everything all at once. Not one way, but every way perfectly and simultaneiously. However, who knows the mind and complexity of God? He just IS.
I can only scratch the surface.

You're not scratching anything's surface, Poseidon, you're just making stuff up.  Your quoted post attests to this.  The real question is, why do you take your own made-up stuff so seriously?
(regarding your name, you told me not to call you Pos, you never told me not to call you Poseidon.  It's a cooler name than "nihilanth" imo)

I did provide biblical examples so no I was not making it up. Or did you miss that part?

You've picked bible quotes out and decided to, on your own, interpret them into your own metaphysical construct.  That's making stuff up.  The Bible didn't provide enough info to go off of, so you went and provided it out of thin air.  That's making stuff up.

Do keep going.  Maybe even write a book about your ideas.  But don't go trying to pass it off as truth or anything.

[nihilanth]

Guys, give up.  Poseidon has already stated that logic does not apply.  Hence, reason is not useful in dealing with him.  He's conceded the logical portion of the argument.

No. I said that it does in a way. Free will and linear time co-exist. You cannot change any action you have made because of this timeline. You still make the decision, but it cannot be changed.

Only God knows what decision you are going to make, but it is still you who made the decision. Nobody made the decision for you. You make your own choices, and it is not an illusion.

But alas, I have had this conversation with atheists before and they cannot grasp it. They want to argue about it and try to put themselves in God's place which is impossible.

Two different viewpoints from two different perceptions of time. Our's is limited, God's is not.