Author Topic: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?  (Read 1115 times)

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Offline Backspace

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #203 on: Yesterday at 03:38:27 PM »
You are grabbing a straw, very small one too.  If our country were facing terrorist threats from Christian dominant countries and every time there is building and people blow up and I hear "Jesus is Lord!!!!!", I would support "temporary Christian ban immigration policy as well".
Until we figure out what the helllllll is going down.

Sometimes the small straws add up.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/5/dod-presentation-classifies-catholics-evangelicals/
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #204 on: Yesterday at 03:39:42 PM »
One more thing, are you a Christian? If so, I'd refer you to the parable of the good Samaritan and ask if you think you're a good neighbor.
Good Samaritan takes care of people who are in need, such as providing food, water, and shelter.  Trump agreed to provide lots of things for Syrian refugees.  Even some forms of protection but not on our soil.
There is nothing wrong with showing compassion for the needy, I actually support policies like that.
But good president think about his people first.  Just like a good father keeps his family on top priority.

I don't knowingly invited people into my house which possibly could hurt my family even if the possibility is .00001%.

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:59:09 PM by John 3 16 »
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #205 on: Yesterday at 03:43:32 PM »
You are grabbing a straw, very small one too.  If our country were facing terrorist threats from Christian dominant countries and every time there is building and people blow up and I hear "Jesus is Lord!!!!!", I would support "temporary Christian ban immigration policy as well".
Until we figure out what the helllllll is going down.

Sometimes the small straws add up.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/5/dod-presentation-classifies-catholics-evangelicals/
They do.  Let's wait until they add up.
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Offline Backspace

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #206 on: Yesterday at 03:49:21 PM »
And given the wild popularity of "I'm Deplorable" t-shirts, hats, posters, bumper stickers, etc., and the number of people who proudly wear them, I'd be inclined to agree.
I hope you were being sarcastic.  I really do.

I'm perfectly serious.  I have inlaws who proudly declare themselves "deplorable" and revel in all the context Clinton meant in saying it. I'm very lucky my wife doesn't share her family's idiocy.  Google "Deplorable T-Shirts" and witness for yourself all the business Clinton created with her stupid statement.
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Offline Backspace

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #207 on: Yesterday at 04:01:38 PM »
You are grabbing a straw, very small one too.  If our country were facing terrorist threats from Christian dominant countries and every time there is building and people blow up and I hear "Jesus is Lord!!!!!", I would support "temporary Christian ban immigration policy as well".
Until we figure out what the helllllll is going down.

Sometimes the small straws add up.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/5/dod-presentation-classifies-catholics-evangelicals/
They do.  Let's wait until they add up.

Do you need a calculator?[1]

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men
 1. I wanted to use Wikipedia as a cite, but my workplace currently blocks it for security issues - says Wiki's security certificates don't meet standards.  I don't frequent AlterNet, but it was next in line when I Googled "Christian Terrorism".
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #208 on: Yesterday at 04:03:15 PM »
Are we still talking about immigration policy?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:04:47 PM by John 3 16 »
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Offline Timo

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #209 on: Yesterday at 04:08:42 PM »
John, what percentage of the refugee population has actually engaged in acts of terrorism?
I don't have the exact number but I know one is too many.
Think about if one of your family member was killed by illegal immigrant.

If US citizen commits crime, we have US law to prosecute.

I know more than a few people that were killed by natural born US citizens. How about universal abortions to prevent more natural born citizens from coming into existence?
Nah son...

Offline Timo

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #210 on: Yesterday at 04:12:05 PM »
One more thing, are you a Christian? If so, I'd refer you to the parable of the good Samaritan and ask if you think you're a good neighbor.
Good Samaritan takes care of people who are in need, such as providing food, water, and shelter.  Trump agreed to provide lots of things for Syrian refugees.  Even some forms of protection but not on our soil.
There is nothing wrong with showing compassion for the needy, I actually support policies like that.
But good president think about his people first.  Just like a good father keeps his family on top priority.

I don't knowingly invited people into my house which possibly could hurt my family even if the possibility is .00001%.

...if you knowingly invite anyone into your house there is a non-zero chance that they might hurt your family. The point of bringing up the percentage of refugees that have actually engaged in acts of terror is that it is a vanishingly small minority. If you take the Department of Homeland Security at all seriously, then we'd know that domestic terror groups and especially white nationalist and sovereign citizen type groups pose a much greater threat than Islamic terrorism.
Nah son...

Offline Timo

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #211 on: Yesterday at 04:14:53 PM »
And with all people, if you're going to be murdered, you're most likely going to be murdered by someone you know who is of more or less the same background as you. Therefore, for your own protection, it's probably best that the law discriminate against people like you, including you. Right?
Nah son...

Offline John 3 16

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #212 on: Yesterday at 04:21:46 PM »
If you take the Department of Homeland Security at all seriously,
It seems you know vetting process better than the FBI.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/aug/12/carlos-beruff/fbi-admitted-it-cannot-properly-vet-middle-eastern/

Quote
then we'd know that domestic terror groups and especially white nationalist and sovereign citizen type groups pose a much greater threat than Islamic terrorism.
So you are welcoming refugees because they are less dangerous?
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #213 on: Yesterday at 04:23:50 PM »
And with all people, if you're going to be murdered, you're most likely going to be murdered by someone you know who is of more or less the same background as you. Therefore, for your own protection, it's probably best that the law discriminate against people like you, including you. Right?
Just like I said earlier, There are US Laws for US citizens. What does domestic problems have anything to do with immigration policy?
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Offline John 3 16

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #214 on: Yesterday at 04:38:12 PM »
Yo, Timo
Your biased-far-lefty-wingly-thinking-process is interfering with your concentration ability on this particular matter.
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Offline Timo

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #215 on: Yesterday at 04:48:38 PM »
It seems you know vetting process better than the FBI.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/aug/12/carlos-beruff/fbi-admitted-it-cannot-properly-vet-middle-eastern/

You're going to need to spell out how this contradicts what I wrote. It shouldn't be at all surprising that there might be gaps in the vetting process because 1.) we're dealing with a war torn country where access to records is going to be limited. Hell, we had problems with criminal records in Louisiana after Katrina. And 2.) A lot of people that are radicalized, just like mass shooters, aren't going to show signs of trouble until it's too late to intervene. But none of this contradicts the fact that security experts have been generally more concerned about far right groups when it comes to domestic terror.

So you are welcoming refugees because they are less dangerous?

That's not really my point. My point is that your fear is irrational, given the threats that we already face at home. I don't know, I just find it weirdly ironic that the same group of people collectively shitting their britches over Syrian refugees are the same people that think there can be no restrictions on civilian access to guns ever or it's tyranny.

In all cases, with all people, you are most likely to be killed by someone you know. And because of the way we segregate ourselves, you're most likely to be killed by someone like you. I think the term for this mismatch is threat inflation. And it's a huge problem for policy going forward. Look at what happened in Ohio a few days ago. Some Somali kid runs down and knifes up a few people and pledges allegiance to ISIS. It is now an international threat. Compare that to what happened a few years back, when a disturbed misogynist shoots up a sorority house by UCSB and it's just a bad thing that happened with apparently no implications for public policy. Does that make sense to you?

Just like I said earlier, There are US Laws for US citizens. What does domestic problems have anything to do with immigration policy?

If we're making immigration policy based on public safety then it seems like public safety ought to be something we think about across the board, no? And if there's a public safety policy that we think would be absurd when applied to US citizens, shouldn't we also think that maybe this policy might be absurd when applied to people trying to become US citizens or residents?

The fact of the matter is that refugees are no more dangerous than anyone else. Hell, you're talking to the direct descendant of a refugee. I don't know, maybe you see some faceless menace when you think of that word. I think of my abuelo.

Yo, Timo
Your biased-far-lefty-wingly-thinking-process is interfering with your concentration ability on this particular matter.

Right. I have a left wing bias that deludes me into thinking that refugees are human beings, whose suffering we should take seriously. And you're coming with the Christian perspective. Right?
Nah son...

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #216 on: Yesterday at 04:58:27 PM »
agree with you that we, Christians must do better job, but it's got nothing to do with Trump's immigration policy.
I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with Trump's immigration policy, but it isn't the most major factor in it.

Quote from: John 3 16
If people crossed the border illegally, it's illegal no matter how you want to sugar coat it.
Tell that to Reagan and the Immigration and Reform Control Act he signed into law in 1986, which ended up being a blanket amnesty for 2.7 million illegal immigrants.  Certainly, they had to acknowledge their guilt, pay a fine and back taxes, and not have committed any crimes since they entered the country, but those are all reasonable considerations for granting amnesty.

I don't have the exact number but I know one is too many.
Think about if one of your family member was killed by illegal immigrant.
John, do you realize that there is a far greater likelihood of a natural-born American citizen committing a crime than of a refugee committing one?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798 - unfortunately, I can't actually read the article due to not having a WSJ subscription, but as the article says, "Newcomers to the U.S. are less likely than the native population to commit violent crimes or be incarcerated."

Quote from: John 3 16
If US citizen commits crime, we have US law to prosecute.
I'm not sure where you're getting this bizarre idea from.  US law applies to anyone in the country or any associated territories, save only diplomats and visiting dignitaries.

Refugees don't get a free pass to ignore US law.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #217 on: Yesterday at 05:02:33 PM »
Yo, Timo
Your biased-far-lefty-wingly-thinking-process is interfering with your concentration ability on this particular matter.
Which would be great, were it not for the fact that I[1] largely agree with him.

Also, that's an ad hominem and a strawman, both of which should be avoided if you want your own arguments to be taken seriously.
 1. a slightly conservative moderate who really wishes that there was an actual centrist party in this country
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #218 on: Yesterday at 05:16:54 PM »
Maybe.  Do you think that the woman who wrote that letter was behaving in a "deplorable" manner, or no?
Hillary's comment was not only wrong but offensive.

Your response seems oddly off topic to my question.. Was a "yes" or "no" too hard to muster?
I always say what I mean. But sometimes I'm a sarcastic prick whose tone can't be properly communicated via text.

Offline John 3 16

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #219 on: Yesterday at 05:28:21 PM »
Yo, Timo
Your biased-far-lefty-wingly-thinking-process is interfering with your concentration ability on this particular matter.
Which would be great, were it not for the fact that I[1] largely agree with him.

Also, that's an ad hominem and a strawman, both of which should be avoided if you want your own arguments to be taken seriously.
 1. a slightly conservative moderate who really wishes that there was an actual centrist party in this country
Jaimehler and Timo, I have to leave for the weekend.
I didn't really take time to read your replys but your argument "Our people are more dangerous than refugees, so refugees are welcomed" is just...I don't know what to say.

I will get back to ya'll next week.  ;)
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Offline Timo

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #220 on: Yesterday at 05:48:39 PM »
No. The argument is that refugees are no more dangerous than our people and therefore pissing our pants about their presence makes no sense.

And that it's a cowardly position, and a hypocritical one coming from someone pretending to be a Christian, like your pal Trump.
Nah son...

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #221 on: Yesterday at 05:50:15 PM »
It's obvious you didn't read our replies, because that's not what we're saying at all.

Do you have any actual basis in fact to justify your argument that we shouldn't be letting refugees into the country, John?  Or is it because they're Muslims from the Middle East who you think are dangerous due to where they're from?

Judging from prior comments - like the one saying you wouldn't invite people into your house if there was even a .00001% chance that they might prove dangerous - I would say it's clearly the latter.  In other words, the basis of your argument is emotional, not logical.  And because it's emotional, it lets other people manipulate you, because your emotions don't think.

I have no problem with conditionally letting refugees into the USA.  That doesn't mean that I think we shouldn't take sensible precautions; for example, keeping tabs on them once they enter.  But I'm not willing to say, "no, we won't let anyone in unless we're completely sure that they're harmless", because even citizens couldn't meet a standard that high.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Timo

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #222 on: Yesterday at 06:11:37 PM »
He's just a racist.
Nah son...

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #223 on: Yesterday at 08:08:18 PM »
One more thing, are you a Christian? If so, I'd refer you to the parable of the good Samaritan and ask if you think you're a good neighbor.
Good Samaritan takes care of people who are in need, such as providing food, water, and shelter.  Trump agreed to provide lots of things for Syrian refugees.  Even some forms of protection but not on our soil.
There is nothing wrong with showing compassion for the needy, I actually support policies like that.
But good president think about his people first.  Just like a good father keeps his family on top priority.

I don't knowingly invited people into my house which possibly could hurt my family even if the possibility is .00001%.

You seem to be compartmentalizing your Christianity when you vote. You should agree with quite a lot of left wing policy. You should be a constant advocate for universal health care, not only because it's cheaper, but more just. You should be giving Muslims the benefit of the doubt, rather than judging them because of a .00001% chance. Pray for them, turn the other cheek, whatever.

You have read Matt 5-8? (At least glancingly?)

You should be against usury, and the whole economic system; perhaps advocating taxing the rich.

Where did we go wrong, raising you, John? Was it something in the milk?
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline Timo

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #224 on: Yesterday at 08:57:11 PM »
Again, he's just a racist. It's the same reason he thinks that there's no difference between "black power" and "white power."
Nah son...

Online The Gawd

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #225 on: Yesterday at 09:04:29 PM »
Problem is, Mr. B, that's what was on the ballot and America not being a racist bigot lost the electoral.
So half of Americans are racists and bigots and the other half aren't.
What you are saying is...just stupid.
I think part of reason that Hillary lost the election was her "basket of deplorable" comment.

Not what I said, it's what the vote said. Hillary probably undershot the % of deplorables by a wide margin.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #226 on: Yesterday at 09:07:02 PM »
Again, he's just a racist. It's the same reason he thinks that there's no difference between "black power" and "white power."

As we know from the new whiny right, calling someone out as a racist, doesn't achieve anything except in the eyes of the caller. The new whiny right embraces racism.

I think he exhibits more characteristics of the antichrist.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline Backspace

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #227 on: Yesterday at 09:26:27 PM »
I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that within hours of Clinton's "Deplorables" remark, Trump Jr. and Roger Stone (currently two of Donald Trump's closest advisors) embraced the title, tweeting "I am so proud to be one of the Deplorables" with a quickly mashed-together white nationalist meme.  The tweet (and Instagram that followed) effectively denied the Trump campaign from making much yardage from the Clinton fumble. 

However, hard-core Trump supporters ran with it, proudly declaring themselves racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and ready to Make America Great AgainTM. Entrepreneurs couldn't pump-out "Deplorable"-related merchandise quick enough.

Quote
Trump Jr. and top supporter share White nationalist image on social media
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/295297-trump-son-white-nationalist-meme

Tell me why Trump is a racist.  Just one example at a time.

It's all public record John. Curious as to why you can't see it.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:39:07 PM by Backspace »
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Offline Timo

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #228 on: Yesterday at 09:46:44 PM »
As we know from the new whiny right, calling someone out as a racist, doesn't achieve anything except in the eyes of the caller. The new whiny right embraces racism.

I think he exhibits more characteristics of the antichrist.

Nah, I think Mr. 3:16 is a bit more classic in his leanings. Calling him a racist will just make me "the real racist." This is fitting because blacks are, after all, the real racists. I mean dude went right to Al Sharpton when I mentioned that Trump had to settle housing discrimination cases with the Justice Department. I wonder if he agrees with the Donald that those black and brown boys falsely accused of raping and beating the Central Park jogger should still face the death penalty even after being exonerated and released. And shoot, I went to a very prestigious university. I'd bet money that he thinks I got in on affirmative action.
Nah son...

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #229 on: Yesterday at 11:04:56 PM »
I mean dude went right to Al Sharpton when I mentioned that Trump had to settle housing discrimination cases with the Justice Department.

I suppose someone has to argue the KKK case to us on this forum. We live in a bubble.

Thanks to John, for being Satan's advocate.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #230 on: Today at 10:13:07 AM »
Good Samaritan takes care of people who are in need, such as providing food, water, and shelter.  Trump agreed to provide lots of things for Syrian refugees.  Even some forms of protection but not on our soil.
There is nothing wrong with showing compassion for the needy, I actually support policies like that.
But good president think about his people first.  Just like a good father keeps his family on top priority.

I don't knowingly invited people into my house which possibly could hurt my family even if the possibility is .00001%.

It's always most curious to see how fearful people like John are.  They insist that their god will take care of them but then their actions show that they don't believe that at all, building walls, carrying guns, saying internment camps are a great idea, etc.  One would think that they don't believe in a god at all.   
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Online Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Reply #231 on: Today at 12:01:04 PM »
 
Again, he's just a racist.
 

   I don't think he means to be. Fear is projected into our minds from every conceivable angle. I think he just so happens to subscribe to the fear projected by the right, which is fear of the "others". The left projects fear as well. From what I can tell, their projection is fear of inequality. Then there is the fear projected by the middle, fear of the extremes. Then after those three main ones we have a whole plethora of fears being propagated by more localized groups. Fear of teh gay agenda projected from the right and from most major religions. Fear of the blacks by the usual suspects. Fear of cops. Fear of rich old white men. Fear of capitalism. Fear of communism. Fear of feminists. Fear of religion. Fear of God/s. Fear of Demons. Fear of the rich. Fear of the poor. Fear the media. Fear the boss. Fear the young. Fear the homeless. Fear the people. Fear everything that is not you and yours.

     There is a veritable smorgasbord of fear to choose from, each catered to our own specific POV and life experience. Fear often leads to hate. Hate leads to action against people you have no reason to fear. However, some people can be awakened to the reality of just how harmful and completely unnecessary these fears are. I think John is one such person that can be woken up from the nightmare that he currently lives in, although he is completely unaware that he is dreaming. It feels real to him.

     John 3:16...Think about your username for a second. Think about why you chose it. God loved each of us so much that he was willing to sacrifice his own flesh and blood to offer us a chance at redemption knowing full well that most of us wouldn't even accept the gift, much less believe it was real. And here you are, scared to death of a possible threat. So scared that you are perfectly willing to turn your back on your fellow man just because one of them might cause you or your loved ones harm. That, my friend, is a terrible place to be in. You are shackled by the fear you bought into. When I got the call to go to war I gradually became more and more anxious as the date for deployment loomed closer. I remember the first night I had a full blown anxiety attack. I laid on the couch, immobile. I was hot, I was cold, I was restless, I was exhausted. My heart was pounding. I lay there on the couch describing what I was feeling to my wife as she sat in front of the computer "googleing" my symptoms. The first thing that popped up was anxiety. I had never had a panic attack in my life so I was incredulous. I knew what I was getting into when I signed up for military service. I was 30 years old. I was fully aware of the risk I was taking with my own life when I signed up and swore in.

     What I wasn't prepared for was the reality of my concern for my wife and child. The implications my choice made upon them. My anxiety stemmed not from the possibility of dying or killing someone but from my concern for my wife and child whom I was about to leave alone. You see, I had taken care of all the bills and maintenance and transportation for my wife and child but now, everything was going to be left up to her to take care of. I set up as many automatic payments as I could but there was nothing I could do to help her drive our child and herself to the grocery store or the grandparents or pay all the bills. So, I panicked. Not for my safety but for her safety and our daughter's safety. I knew that the chances of her being killed or injured in a car crash, or choking, or disease, or accident at home was much more likely than me being killed in a combat zone. My fear was that I wouldn't be home to prevent these things from happening or help if they did. My fear of leaving my family alone without me nearly crippled me emotionally and psychologically. 

     The point being, your fear of being killed by a random Muslim terrorist attack is like an allergic reaction. Your mind is reacting to that fear in a logically disproportionate way. It is over reacting. My wife was fine. I was fine. My children were fine. We all survived.

     What you need to understand is that people of different colors, different nationalities, different sexes, different religions are all people with the same anxieties as you. Yeah, there are a few loose screws in the mix. We need to do everything we can to identify them as quickly as possible but the solution isn't shunning whole groups of people completely. Remember this, the chances of you or your loved ones being killed by accident while driving on our roads is way more likely to happen than you or your loved ones being killed or injured by a Muslim.

     Think about where your fear comes from. Yeah, it could happen...but is it likely? And yes, I do agree that there is a serious problem with our current immigration policy I don't like how easy it is for people to cross our southern border without going through the proper channels but I am not afraid of them. I am perfectly willing to have a discussion with anyone about possible solutions but it is very difficult to have that kind of discussion with someone who is coming at the discussion from a fear based position. Think about it this way if it helps...Death is all around us but Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Abandon your fear, John, it is a cancer that will eat your soul and destroy your humanity.



« Last Edit: Today at 12:02:36 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
When I criticize political parties or candidates, I am not criticizing you. If I criticize you, there will be no doubt in your mind as to what I am saying.