Author Topic: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."  (Read 300 times)

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Offline Nam

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"I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« on: May 13, 2015, 05:08:15 PM »
http://time.com/3856484/america-christian-nation/

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With political season kicking off again, so is the season where folks begin to use the term “Christian nation.” Some claim we were one, some claim we are one, and some say we need to become one. Yet, each time I hear that phrase I have an inner Princess Bride moment where I say to myself, “you keep using that word, but it doesn’t mean what you think it means.”

Because truth be told, if America actually were to become a Christian nation, I don’t think the people who advocated for it would be too happy with the end product. Since Christian is supposed to mean “little Christ” or “Christ follower,” we actually have a way to offer some clear cut examples of what a Christian nation would look like– because all we have to do is look at what Jesus taught, and how Jesus lived, as a model to pattern national behavior.

So, what if we became a Christian nation? Well, a few things would have to change… drastically. Here’s a few quick examples:

We’d Have To Abolish the 2nd Amendment.

The 2nd Amendment is so beloved by American Christians that this alone would likely be the sticking point preventing us from ever becoming a Christian nation. Jesus taught his disciples that they were to never use violence to respond to evil (Matthew 5:39) and that they were to actively love their enemies. He also lived a life of nonviolent enemy love as a model for us to follow– and living our lives patterned after how he lived his is the ultimate proof that we belong to God (1John 2:6). A Christian nation would have no room for the 2nd Amendment.

We’d Have to Replace the Department of Defense with the Department of Enemy Love.

Refraining from killing one’s enemies is just part of the package with Jesus- he also taught that enemy love was to be an active love. He taught his disciples that they were to bless their enemies, serve their enemies, and actively do good things for them. In this regard, disbanding our military would be the first thing a Christian nation would do, but the second thing would be that they would begin actively loving enemies. Converting the Department of Defense into the Department of Enemy Love and using those billions of dollars to bless the world- particularly the Muslim world- would be a good start towards having a nation that looked like Jesus.

We’d Have to End Capital Punishment.

Of course, there would be no capital punishment in a Christian Nation because Christ is the one who disrupted a public execution and told the executioners that only a perfect person was qualified to serve in the role of executioner (John 8:7). This means the role of legitimate executioners has been vacant ever since, and would not exist in a Christian nation.

Eradicating Poverty Would Be One of Our Most Pressing Concerns.

In Matthew 25 Jesus gives us a picture of the final judgement day, and describes the scene as he gathers “all nations” before him. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending which side you end up on) Jesus doesn’t give the nations a theology exam. However, he does judge them based upon whether or not they took care of the poor and vulnerable– and those who did not (professing Christians) are told to “depart.” A Christian nation would remember that feeding hungry people is one of the boxes on Jesus’s judgement day score card.


We’d Freely Care for the Sick.

Healing people of illnesses was one of the central aspects of Jesus’s earthly ministry. Any nation worthy of calling itself a Christian nation would also be a nation who freely and indiscriminately provided healthcare for the sick and lame, just as Jesus. Jesus even freely healed a man who was paralyzed because of his own stupid life choices (John 5:14), so any Christian nation would be extremely generous in the provision of healthcare.

We’d Become The Most Loving Nation Toward Immigrants.

That passage in Matthew 25 where Jesus judges the nations? Welp, one of the other items on the score sheet is “welcoming immigrants” (Matthew 25:35). A Christian nation would be seen as the most pro-immigrant nation on earth.

We’d Do Away with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Kids all across the country begin their days by standing, facing a piece of fabric, and taking a pledge to give their allegiance to it. In a Christian nation however, we would recognize that it is impossible to serve two masters and would be repulsed at the idea of pledging our allegiance to anyone but Jesus himself. Furthermore, we wouldn’t take oaths in a Christian nation (Matthew 5:34), so the entire practice of pledging allegiance to the flag would seem creepy to us.

We’d Pay Our Taxes Without Complaining About It.

It seems many of those who think they want America to be a Christian nation see taxation as a form of thievery, but when Jesus weighed in on the issue (speaking within a culture that had a high taxation rate) he simply noted that we should pay to Caesar whatever belongs to him. Jesus had his big moment to expose the evils of taxation and missed it- essentially telling his followers to pay it and move on. In a Christian nation, we’d all be like Jesus: telling people to pay their taxes.



As over-the-top as some of these seem, they’re all things that Jesus directly taught and modeled for us to emulate. Any Christian nation, by definition, would have to be a nation that lived out the teachings and example of Jesus, and would be a radical anomaly on the world scene.

So, politicians can use the term “Christian nation” all they want, but I don’t think any of them understand what the term actually means– nor do I think any of them would find a Christian nation appealing.

A Christian nation doesn’t exist, nor will one ever exist. However, the Kingdom of God does exist, right here, right now– and you’re invited to live within it, where all of those above things are lived and practiced already.



-Nam
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I only have a filter for people who do not consistently beg to be belittled, ridiculed, insulted, and demeaned.

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I may believe people, as a whole, should be treated fairly but I also believe those same people are idiots.

Offline shnozzola

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2015, 08:50:00 PM »
I know christians that believe just that, and while I consider them deluded as far as a belief in god goes, as an atheist I agree with the wisdom of these idealistic views.
We have guided missiles and misguided men.  ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2015, 09:57:46 PM »
The Quakers tried to practice that. And they still produced Richard Nixon.  :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nick

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2015, 07:16:28 AM »
The 1st two mentioned would end it for 98% of them.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2015, 12:32:00 PM »
I know christians that believe just that, and while I consider them deluded as far as a belief in god goes, as an atheist I agree with the wisdom of these idealistic views.

Yes, it would be nice if really being civil and kind to one another happened because of the law.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline DVZ3

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 01:46:23 PM »
"My name is inigo Montoya, you killed my father. Now prepare to die"....  :-\ Well, I mean I know he's in heaven and in paradise, the best place ever created. Now I'm going to put you in the best possible place you could ever be because I'm angry.....I'm going to kill you in revenge.

You know what, this is stupid.... I'm mad and want to kill,but they go to heaven... Like a pass to the best place ever as revenge for anger.  Something isn't right with this logic. It's as if I don't believe in my own bullshit...

End scene.


« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 01:51:30 PM by DVZ3 »
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Offline natlegend

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2015, 10:18:04 PM »
"Are there any rocks ahead?"
"If there are we'll soon be dead."
"No more rhyming, I mean it!"
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 10:39:27 AM »
One of the few movies that was almost as good (but not quite) as the book.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 05:36:18 PM »
You do realize the guy who wrote the novel also wrote the screenplay? Of course I find those who read the originals are always biased against the film adaptation. It's never what they imagine. I bet there were people like that for "The Perks of Being a Wallflower" since the film was not only written by the author but directed by him as well?

-Nam
Things I've said here:

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I only have a filter for people who do not consistently beg to be belittled, ridiculed, insulted, and demeaned.

Quote
I may believe people, as a whole, should be treated fairly but I also believe those same people are idiots.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2015, 07:32:39 PM »
Sure and William Goldman is awesome. Marathon Man. Magic. Etc. But PB the movie had to, of necessity be a streamlined less layered version of his book. Movies are not books. And the ending with Cary Ellwes paralyzed was, how shall l put it? Lame. Still 8/10. Tbe book is 9/10.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2015, 08:13:27 PM »
I give the book 0/10[1] and the movie 9/10.

-Nam
 1. never read it
Things I've said here:

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I only have a filter for people who do not consistently beg to be belittled, ridiculed, insulted, and demeaned.

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I may believe people, as a whole, should be treated fairly but I also believe those same people are idiots.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 09:22:01 AM »
never read it

I highly recommend that you change that.  Goldman is a clever cat, and the structural narrative of the book is whimsical in a way that a film is simply unable to capture (insofar as it is presented as an abridged history, complete with commentary, of a fictional historical work).

It's quite brilliant, frankly.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Nam

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 10:18:15 AM »
Thomas Chatterton[1] sort of did the same thing with Thomas Rowley.

-Nam
 1. he's my favorite poet
Things I've said here:

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I only have a filter for people who do not consistently beg to be belittled, ridiculed, insulted, and demeaned.

Quote
I may believe people, as a whole, should be treated fairly but I also believe those same people are idiots.

Offline Boots

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 11:47:03 AM »
Best line in the movie.

Fezzik: Inigo...
Inigo: What?
Fezzik: I hope we win!

There are more quotable lines per capita in that movie then any other I'm aware of.  Carey Ellwes and Mandy Patinkin did all their own fencing (and all the fencing masters they name in their duel were real).  Robin Wright (Buttercup) didn't need a speach coach since her father had a British accent and she could emulate it.  Billy Crystal (Miracle Max) never repeated a joke in his multiple days of filming.  Rob Reiner had ot leave the room while Billy was filiming, he'd laugh too much--and Mandy broke a rib laughing.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 01:03:42 PM »
Wallace Shawn and Andre the Giant are the best parts of that movie. Besides all the other best parts of that movie. It was like they took the serious parts of Holy Grail and funny parts of Excalibur added a bit of Ladyhawke, and made the perfect movie.

(Except the paralyzed guy at the end, which was lame. :P)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline junebug72

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 10:07:46 AM »
Would an atheist nation look any different?
LOOK DEEP INTO NATURE AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING BETTER...ALBERT EINSTEIN

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 10:49:46 AM »
^^^Maybe.

Compare Japan, Sweden and Holland to Afghanistan, Philippines and Uganda. The first three are closer to the atheist end of the spectrum, and the latter three are guided by religious beliefs. Where are people more likely to have a decent life? Where are the laws based more on reason and common sense? Where are the crime and poverty rates lower? Where are people trying to use science to solve problems.

And where are people praying for god to help them instead?

I know that reality is more complicated than just looking at religion vs no religion. But the overall difference is pretty stark.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online Mrjason

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 11:11:07 AM »
^^^Maybe.

Compare Japan, Sweden and Holland to Afghanistan, Philippines and Uganda. The first three are closer to the atheist end of the spectrum, and the latter three are guided by religious beliefs. Where are people more likely to have a decent life? Where are the laws based more on reason and common sense? Where are the crime and poverty rates lower? Where are people trying to use science to solve problems.

And where are people praying for god to help them instead?

I know that reality is more complicated than just looking at religion vs no religion. But the overall difference is pretty stark.

Do you think that religion is the cause of the problem or a symptom of the problem?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 01:04:38 PM »
Both.

People only have so much time and energy. The more resources that are spent on religious "solutions" that don't work, or that make things worse, the less time and energy is available to focus on the things that really solve problems.

That's time and money spent on prayer candles, tithing, church services, healings, missioning, writing and printing leaflets, etc. That's time and money not spent on research on how to cure ebola or how to deal with global warming.

Then, since the problems get worse instead of better, people with only a religious orientation to the world double down on the praying, etc. Which just prevents real solutions. Putting oil on someone's head won't cure malaria. So, religion is a cause and an effect.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 02:03:43 PM by nogodsforme »
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online Mrjason

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 07:34:04 PM »
Both.

People only have so much time and energy. The more resources that are spent on religious "solutions" that don't work, or that make things worse, the less time and energy is available to focus on the things that really solve problems.

That's time and money spent on prayer candles, tithing, church services, healings, missioning, writing and printing leaflets, etc. That's time and money not spent on research on how to cure ebola or how to deal with global warming.

Then, since the problems get worse instead of better, people with only a religious orientation to the world double down on the praying, etc. Which just prevents real solutions. Putting oil on someone's head won't cure malaria. So, religion is a cause and an effect.

Yes, human endeavour is a finite resource. if it is squandered on religious undertakings where does the fault lie? Can the blame be laid on the shoulders of those that promote misunderstanding or those that do not promote understanding?
How vociferous should one be in advocating a truth?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: "I'm Have a 'Princess Bride' Moment..."
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 10:59:33 PM »
Religious thinking is so embedded in the cultural fabric that causation becomes a chicken or egg question. I just try to point out that there is a gigantic difference in quality of life when you compare societies that lean hard toward religious explanations for things, vs those societies that lean harder towards some rational scientific basis for trying to solve problems.

And in those same societies over time as they move closer or farther from religious-based thinking. Comparing Afghanistan in the 1960's and 70's when the leadership was secular--women were studying to become attorneys and architects-- to Afghanistan under religious rule, where girls are in danger for their lives if they try to learn to read.  :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.