Author Topic: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?  (Read 15263 times)

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Offline protestantson

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #174 on: September 26, 2010, 12:58:15 AM »
.
Sir, there are many. It is rife with such material, and it's all been cited (not sited) on this site (not cite) before. Do a forum search. Or have you not actually read the collection of fairy tales you're trying to defend.

First off, I guess I kinda assumed that you would have one of these "contradictions" off hand, seeing as you are so knowledgeable of them. Sorry, not gonna waste my time, I wanted one from YOU.
Secondly, how could you possibly equate isolated incidents of religious extremism with Christianity as a whole?
It is obvious that these people are misguided by the darkness that is within their own hearts. Love has no place with hate, therefore they are extremist, and do not hold true to the teachings of Christ. I do not condone this, neither are they justified in my eyes, nor in God's eyes. Having willfully disobeyed his greatest
commandment, which is to love one another. They have judged others, therefore they will be judged.
I find such a comparison to Christianity in totality to be partial, judgmental, and discriminant.
Example: Some American troops have been accused of war crimes of inhumane acts, therefore, All U.S.
troops are inhumane, cruel people. An assumption like this is ignorance in its purest form. Because we have
only facts based on the "some". When all the facts are gathered, we come to the conclusion, that most men
and woman of the service have served honourably, holding true to the oath they have taken. The stated
example holds true in the case of the MAJORITY of true Christians.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #175 on: September 26, 2010, 01:15:30 AM »
.....the MAJORITY of true Christians.

Looking forward to the day when everyone agrees what a "True Christian" is.

You've come up with your interpretation (backed by scripture), they've come up with theirs (also backed by scripture).  They say they are True Christians, you say YOU are a True Christian.

Explain how we - on the outside - can tell.  NOT by quoting scripture (they can do that too), but by detailing exactly how you know your interpretation is correct.

And,while you're about it, how about answering my question about Zeus?  Or are True Christians unable to admit it when they've made an error?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Gimpy

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #176 on: September 26, 2010, 09:43:32 AM »
It is obvious that these people are misguided by the darkness that is within their own hearts. Love has no place with hate, therefore they are extremist, and do not hold true to the teachings of Christ. I do not condone this, neither are they justified in my eyes, nor in God's eyes.

Obviously to WHOM? THEY wholly believe they are in line with their god's teachings.

Though some may be "isolated" a great many, as others have pointed out to you, are not.

And, for the record, extremist or NOT, it still counts as modern examples.

But we could go back to slavery, if you like, is that modern enough for you?

Or back to the footprint of Christian Europe on the aboriginals in the New World, is that modern enough?

Or the Spanish Inquisition. .. granted a while back, but where do you draw the line? Yesterday?

If you want to explore the many contradictions in the bible, I direct you to this child-forum here:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?board=35.0
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Offline Operator_020

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #177 on: September 26, 2010, 10:19:45 AM »
protestantson,

I would have fixed your quotes in your last post, but I cannot tell where the quote ends and your response begins.  Please fix them, since you would know better than I. 

Thanks.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #178 on: September 27, 2010, 10:51:43 AM »
Site a modern source in which christians use the bible to kill people. Mine is pretty heavy, but don't think so.
I do enjoy it when a Christian wants to declare a statute of limitations on the Bible.  But you want a "modern source", I'm happy to give more than one to you.  Matthew Shepard, George Tiller, Robert Sanderson, Shannon Lowey, Lee Ann Nichols, various massacres of Native Americans as Christians decided that North America was to be "theirs", etc.  I can go on, shall I?   

Quote
The answer for your question concerning Romans 9 is clearly stated within it. You were referring to the " vessels of wrath " correct?
Ah, the usual claims that something is "clearly stated" when it seems that the Christian can't answer on his own and must hope that anyone questioning him will believe what he claims with no questions.  Sorry, but where is an answer to my question "BTW, if you want to say free will, that's fine but consider, why was there constant interference by god in the Bible and how does that not affect free will and how does Romans 9, where it says God creates some people just to be destroyed, affect that too?" clearly stated within Romans 9.  Please do point it out.


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I'll be happy to answer your question. What you say does not matter to me at all, because it is a lie.
You want to call me a liar?  Okay, show me where I've lied. 

Quote
You cannot provide concrete proof of it. Such a statement is an insult to your intelligence.
You made the claim that "really not important how you or I came to our conclusions when interpreting the scripture at hand". IF this is what you really feel, then why so offended when I ask *if* it truly isn't important, does it matter to you if your Jesus never really existed and that you really aren't saved that you have no "heaven" to go to, that you are indeed only stuck with living a charitable life here on this one and only earth?  and thanks for the veiled insult.  I see nothing about my question to be insulting to my intelligence at all since there is no evidence of your Jesus or God.  You have no concrete proof of your claims.  I can at least point to the total dearth of evidence for your myths. 

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Do you mean to tell me that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh? Assuming He didn't, how could
such an imaginary character gain so much fame and reverence?
How could Krishna? How could Ameratsu?  How could any deity that has been claimed to have existed?  Humans create deities to explain the world and they try to control their world by placating these supposed entities.  Humans have evolved to see "intent" behind things because that helps us interact, but it gets misplaced when we assume intent behind natural disasters, etc. 

Quote
Paul the apostle had a prophecy about this in Romans no less. He said that the knowledge and fame of Him and his name would cover the entire earth, it is indeed evident that it came to pass. Not bad for a fairy tale huh?

I'm not quite sure where it says in Romans where knowledge and fame of god/jesus would cover the entire earth.  But for Paul, who supposedly traveled around quite a bit in the "known world" of the Roman Empire, this claim isn't much and he even claims that the faith of the Romans is "8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world." Really, in China? In North America? It's a good guess based on his own experiences, but limited by those too.  No need for any magical prophecying at all.  Paul wanted to claim something for his religion that was impressive.  And thought it was already happening, not to happen in some future time.

I do wonder about such "prophecies" and how Christians pick and choose them.  let's look at another prophecy from Paul "Romans 13:11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."  And hmmm, how long has it been now?  over 2000 years.  So much for being "nearer". I do enjoy your claim that "everyone knows who Jesus is" when your fellow Christians often claim that they don't and that's why there is no "end times" nonsense happening.   

Finally, it doesn't suprise me at all that we've ended up at the whine of "but but, those aren't TrueChristianstm" when someone points out your violent vile brethern. 
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #179 on: September 28, 2010, 07:39:01 AM »
.....the MAJORITY of true Christians.

Looking forward to the day when everyone agrees what a "True Christian" is.

Oh everyone agree on a definition it is "Any Christian that has the same morality and theology as I do" that is the exact definition that seem universal  ;)
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline protestantson

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #180 on: September 28, 2010, 11:15:10 PM »
Quote
I do wonder about such "prophecies" and how Christians pick and choose them.  let's look at another prophecy from Paul "Romans 13:11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."  And hmmm, how long has it been now?  over 2000 years.  So much for being "nearer". I do enjoy your claim that "everyone knows who Jesus is" when your fellow Christians often claim that they don't and that's why there is no "end times" nonsense happening.   
Finally, it doesn't suprise me at all that we've ended up at the whine of "but but, those aren't TrueChristianstm" when someone points out your violent vile brethern. 
Romans 13:11 Is not so much prophetic, as it is an exhortation, or wake up call. It is clear who Paul is speaking to- those who slumber. I will leave it to you to determine what kind of slumber he speaks of.
Not whining neither, it is the truth. I previously explained the concept of ignorance, obviously no one paid attention to that.

Offline protestantson

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #181 on: September 28, 2010, 11:28:29 PM »
.....the MAJORITY of true Christians.

Looking forward to the day when everyone agrees what a "True Christian" is.

You've come up with your interpretation (backed by scripture), they've come up with theirs (also backed by scripture).  They say they are True Christians, you say YOU are a True Christian.

Explain how we - on the outside - can tell.  NOT by quoting scripture (they can do that too), but by detailing exactly how you know your interpretation is correct.

And,while you're about it, how about answering my question about Zeus?  Or are True Christians unable to admit it when they've made an error?
I have made no error, I actually find it funny that you would liken zeus to the Almighty God.
Why should I have to explain it? I think you know very well that there cannot be any comparison. I feel that if I did, especially here, it would be open to mockery, and ridicule. And to give you occasion to do
so would not be wise, especially, if rather than seeking understanding, all you seek to do is mock. Which is evident.

Offline Gimpy

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #182 on: September 28, 2010, 11:28:57 PM »
Quote
I do wonder about such "prophecies" and how Christians pick and choose them.  let's look at another prophecy from Paul "Romans 13:11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."  And hmmm, how long has it been now?  over 2000 years.  So much for being "nearer". I do enjoy your claim that "everyone knows who Jesus is" when your fellow Christians often claim that they don't and that's why there is no "end times" nonsense happening.  
Finally, it doesn't suprise me at all that we've ended up at the whine of "but but, those aren't TrueChristianstm" when someone points out your violent vile brethern.  
Romans 13:11 Is not so much prophetic, as it is an exhortation, or wake up call. It is clear who Paul is speaking to- those who slumber. I will leave it to you to determine what kind of slumber he speaks of.
Not whining neither, it is the truth. I previously explained the concept of ignorance, obviously no one paid attention to that.

I seldom can figure out your posts when your quotes are all screwed up.


Edited because the material quoted fucked up MY quotes too! DOH!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 11:35:45 PM by Gimpy »
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Offline protestantson

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #183 on: September 28, 2010, 11:32:48 PM »
Quote
I do wonder about such "prophecies" and how Christians pick and choose them.  let's look at another prophecy from Paul "Romans 13:11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."  And hmmm, how long has it been now?  over 2000 years.  So much for being "nearer". I do enjoy your claim that "everyone knows who Jesus is" when your fellow Christians often claim that they don't and that's why there is no "end times" nonsense happening.   
Finally, it doesn't suprise me at all that we've ended up at the whine of "but but, those aren't TrueChristianstm" when someone points out your violent vile brethern. 
Romans 13:11 Is not so much prophetic, as it is an exhortation, or wake up call. It is clear who Paul is speaking to- those who slumber. I will leave it to you to determine what kind of slumber he speaks of.
Not whining neither, it is the truth. I previously explained the concept of ignorance, obviously no one paid attention to that.


I seldom can figure out your posts when your quotes are all screwed up.
Sorry Gimpster! Still trying to figure it out. I just scanned through the posting instructions.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #184 on: September 28, 2010, 11:35:30 PM »
I have made no error, I actually find it funny that you would liken zeus to the Almighty God.

First, prove that it is your god that exists, and not Zeus.  Otherwise, the statement is indistinguishable from " I actually find it funny that you would liken yahweh to the Almighty Zeus."


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Why should I have to explain it? I think you know very well that there cannot be any comparison. I feel that if I did, especially here, it would be open to mockery, and ridicule. And to give you occasion to do so would not be wise, especially, if rather than seeking understanding, all you seek to do is mock. Which is evident.

So you won't back up your assessments?  That tells us you have nothing to back it up with.   :shrug
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline protestantson

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #185 on: September 28, 2010, 11:40:37 PM »
I have made no error, I actually find it funny that you would liken zeus to the Almighty God.

First, prove that it is your god that exists, and not Zeus.  Otherwise, the statement is indistinguishable from " I actually find it funny that you would liken yahweh to the Almighty Zeus."


Quote
Why should I have to explain it? I think you know very well that there cannot be any comparison. I feel that if I did, especially here, it would be open to mockery, and ridicule. And to give you occasion to do so would not be wise, especially, if rather than seeking understanding, all you seek to do is mock. Which is evident.

So you won't back up your assessments?  That tells us you have nothing to back it up with.   :shrug
The old "prove it" thing is pretty popular with you all. You prove your beliefs. The burden of proof
is on the believer, it cannot be proven, however, if one is already inclined not to. Looks like we got a stalemate huh :shrug

Offline Aaron123

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #186 on: September 28, 2010, 11:45:33 PM »
The old "prove it" thing is pretty popular with you all. You prove your beliefs. The burden of proof
is on the believer, it cannot be proven, however, if one is already inclined not to. Looks like we got a stalemate huh :shrug

So wait; even though you're aware that the burden of proof is on you, you refuse to provide proof because... well, just because?

No wonder then we have a communication problem.  You're aware of what you need to do, yet you won't mearly out of spite.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Gimpy

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #187 on: September 28, 2010, 11:54:17 PM »
The old "prove it" thing is pretty popular with you all.

As it should be with most people who are subjected to claims of the fantastic.

You prove your beliefs. The burden of proof
is on the believer, it cannot be proven, however, if one is already inclined not to. Looks like we got a stalemate huh :shrug

Was that word salad supposed to approximate a sentence in english that was intended to communicate an actual thought?

I'll give it a shot based on what I THINK you might have said:

"You prove your beliefs. The burden of proof is on the believer. . . "

Okay, so, where is your proof? The burden of proof is on you as you are the believer.

I am the non-believer. I don't believe something. Are you telling me that non-belief requires a positive proof? How does one do that?

So, if I tell you that I have a pink unicorn in my garage, with a magic wand in place of a horn, but it's invisible, you will just have to take my word for it.

And then you tell me, "No, I don't believe you," that you are then required to provide the proof that my invisible magic-wand-horned unicorn does NOT exist?

And then I can't figure out the rest of your statement.

Maybe you're tired?
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Offline protestantson

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #188 on: September 28, 2010, 11:55:54 PM »
The old "prove it" thing is pretty popular with you all. You prove your beliefs. The burden of proof
is on the believer, it cannot be proven, however, if one is already inclined not to. Looks like we got a stalemate huh :shrug

So wait; even though you're aware that the burden of proof is on you, you refuse to provide proof because... well, just because?

No wonder then we have a communication problem.  You're aware of what you need to do, yet you won't mearly out of spite.
You cannot prove your beliefs neither, so what? Hence the stalemate remark. No spite here brother.

Offline protestantson

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #189 on: September 29, 2010, 12:04:10 AM »
The old "prove it" thing is pretty popular with you all.

As it should be with most people who are subjected to claims of the fantastic.

You prove your beliefs. The burden of proof
is on the believer, it cannot be proven, however, if one is already inclined not to. Looks like we got a stalemate huh :shrug

Was that word salad supposed to approximate a sentence in english that was intended to communicate an actual thought?

I'll give it a shot based on what I THINK you might have said:

"You prove your beliefs. The burden of proof is on the believer. . . "

Okay, so, where is your proof? The burden of proof is on you as you are the believer.

I am the non-believer. I don't believe something. Are you telling me that non-belief requires a positive proof? How does one do that?

So, if I tell you that I have a pink unicorn in my garage, with a magic wand in place of a horn, but it's invisible, you will just have to take my word for it.

And then you tell me, "No, I don't believe you," that you are then required to provide the proof that my invisible magic-wand-horned unicorn does NOT exist?

And then I can't figure out the rest of your statement.

Maybe you're tired?
Probably tired Gimp. 14 hours a day 6 days a week does me in. Who am I to complain though?
There are greater sorrows in life right? Some people are afflicted with things and yet they push through it.
I know this 8 yr old girl, she has brain cancer. I look at her, and despite her affliction, she has more life in her eyes than most people walking the streets. If believing in that "pink unicorn" helps her to approach
death with no fear, and gives her a hope that casts all her cares away, why would someone take that away from her??

Online lotanddaughters

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #190 on: September 29, 2010, 12:20:20 AM »
I have made no error, I actually find it funny that you would liken zeus to the Almighty God.
Why should I have to explain it? I think you know very well that there cannot be any comparison. I feel that if I did, especially here, it would be open to mockery, and ridicule. And to give you occasion to do
so would not be wise, especially, if rather than seeking understanding, all you seek to do is mock. Which is evident.

Christian mythology is a polytheistic mythology as is Greek mythology. Christian polytheism tries to disguise itself as monotheistic.

There are many polytheistic myths that have one or more gods that are more powerful than the other gods of that particular myth. These myths also have one or more gods that created some or all of the other gods of that myth. Christianity is also one of these myths. The difference is that Christianity uses words like "angel" to refer to less-powerful gods. Christianity also never refers to Satan as a "god". Calling something by a different name does not change its properties.

If someone mentioned Zeus to Constantine the Great at just the right moment of his life, the Christian myth might have fallen by the wayside, or it might have had to linger and spread slowly like Judaism.

You should study the evolution of Christianity(including the evolution of the Old Testament).

You should also realize that where and when you were born best determines what myth you will believe in.

People who become wise and shed their myths see eye to eye with others who have also become wise, even if they come from different mythological beliefs.

EDIT: deleted a comma(,)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 12:23:15 AM by lotanddaughters »
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #191 on: September 29, 2010, 01:18:33 AM »
You cannot prove your beliefs neither, so what? Hence the stalemate remark. No spite here brother.

How is a non-belief in itself, a belief?  Is that the same as saying that "OFF" is a tv channel?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #192 on: September 29, 2010, 04:27:28 AM »
I have made no error, I actually find it funny that you would liken zeus to the Almighty God.
Why should I have to explain it? I think you know very well that there cannot be any comparison.

As has been said, I find it funny you compare the carpenter's son to the almighty Zeus.

Your "point" was:

Do you mean to tell me that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh? Assuming He didn't, how could
such an imaginary character gain so much fame and reverence?

...that something ONLY gains fame and reverence if they really existed in the flesh.

Zeus was worshipped throughout the Roman World for centuries.  Osiris was worshipped throughout the Egyptian Kingdoms for even longer.  Hence my question to YOU:

"Do you mean to tell me that Zeus did not come in the flesh? Assuming He didn't, how could
such an imaginary character gain so much fame and reverence?"

I'm presuming you will claim that there never really was a god called Zeus or Osiris?  Given that both of them had widespread fame and reverence, how DO you account for that?

Or will you admit that - in the right circumstances - it can be the case that a completely fictional creature can end up being worshipped and treated as real by vast numbers of people?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline plethora

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #193 on: September 29, 2010, 04:28:46 AM »
I know this 8 yr old girl, she has brain cancer. I look at her, and despite her affliction, she has more life in her eyes than most people walking the streets. If believing in that "pink unicorn" helps her to approach
death with no fear, and gives her a hope that casts all her cares away, why would someone take that away from her??

This sounds to me like an addmittance that your beliefs are really a fantasy security blanket for coping with reality (which they are).

Making something up that gives consolation to a terminally ill child is something I can understand to a degree... but I think it's unnecessary. You are also wrong to think that this child will approach death with no fear. That's bullshit. Everybody, assuming they are mentally sound, is afraid of arriving at the moment of their death no matter how much they believe in god and heaven. It's an inescapable natural instinct.

My daughter is nearly 8 years old. She is an atheist by default (i.e. she was never indoctrinated into a religion as both her parents are atheists). She knows that when we die, we simply cease to exist and she understands her own mortality.

She assumes she will die many years from now as an old lady... long after her parents have died. She told me the other day that the only thing she fears about death is pain. She says she wants to die in her sleep so she won't notice. She is not concerned at all about not existing after her death or anything that happens after she dies.

I told her not to worry because we have hospitals and doctors that can take away any pain if necessary. I cited her grandmother (who died) as an example. That put her mind to rest.

Did I stretch the truth about doctors making death painless in all scenarios? Yeah I probably did... but she is a child after all.

This is a child who copes with reality a lot better than some adults and is not any more afraid than a kid who believes in god and heaven. She will grow up with no dependencies on emotional security blankets. Is it really necessary to make up a fanstasy for people to overcome their fears? I think not.

So at best, your religion is no better than a nice little fairy tale and it does not achieve any better results.

At worst, it makes people believe they are sinful, worthless, deserving of hell and have to kiss the man in the sky's ass on their knees throughout their entire lives to try and get into heaven... a heaven that doesn't exist. What a waste of life.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 04:30:48 AM by plethora »
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #194 on: September 29, 2010, 04:37:20 AM »
I know this 8 yr old girl, she has brain cancer. I look at her, and despite her affliction, she has more life in her eyes than most people walking the streets. If believing in that "pink unicorn" helps her to approach
death with no fear, and gives her a hope that casts all her cares away, why would someone take that away from her??

What if that girl grows up....and her belief in the pink unicorn (and its wishes and desires) cause her to treat men as second class citizens?  If she believes the pink unicorn is happy for certain groups to be treated less favourably - to be denied rights enjoyed by others - and determinedly acts to push the pink unicorn's agenda?

What if, while one part of her (ridiculous) faith in the invisible pink unicorn gives her comfort, that same faith causes her to act against the needs of millions of her fellow humans?  Where do YOU strike the balance between a ridiculous faith that gives comfort to some, but negatively affects others?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Gimpy

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #195 on: September 29, 2010, 07:36:30 AM »
You cannot prove your beliefs neither, so what? Hence the stalemate remark. No spite here brother.



What "belief" do we need to "prove"?

NOT believing in something is not a belief. It's the absence of a belief.
Not all those who wander are lost; some are buried in my backyard. . .

Offline Hatter23

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #196 on: September 29, 2010, 08:44:42 AM »
The old "prove it" thing is pretty popular with you all. You prove your beliefs. The burden of proof
is on the believer, it cannot be proven, however, if one is already inclined not to. Looks like we got a stalemate huh :shrug

So wait; even though you're aware that the burden of proof is on you, you refuse to provide proof because... well, just because?

No wonder then we have a communication problem.  You're aware of what you need to do, yet you won't mearly out of spite.

I think that it isn't "spite" so much as ignorance. Rember sufficiently advanced ignorance is indistinguishable from malice.

And the whole flipping the burden of proof is an old tactic, why else would have The Flying Spaghetti Monster, the invisible pink unicorn, and Russel's Teapot, and Dragon in my Garage scenarios invented but to expose the ludicrousness of the old tactic that most theists use of flipping the burden of proof. A claim of the existence of something fantastic has the burden of proof, and it is not the equivalent of the claim that such a fantastic thing does not exist. No one could, in all honesty, Take the Claims of a Dragon in my Garage as equal to the claim you do not have a dragon in your garage.



An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline velkyn

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #197 on: September 29, 2010, 09:17:37 AM »
Romans 13:11 Is not so much prophetic, as it is an exhortation, or wake up call. It is clear who Paul is speaking to- those who slumber. I will leave it to you to determine what kind of slumber he speaks of.
Not whining neither, it is the truth. I previously explained the concept of ignorance, obviously no one paid attention to that.

and here we go with the Christain who claims that they and they alone know what God "really meant".   and sorry, the truth isn't what you want to claim, it's what you can support. And it is whining since none of you can show that your claims of what God "really meant" are any more viable than the next. You all want to be the only ones who have it "right".  

Let's look at the verses from Romans 13.

Quote
11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
 Paul is making a prediction, the "night is nearly over, the day is almost here" and that the salvation is "nearer now" then what they initially thought.  And the slumbering is those who are putting off doing what Paul thinks is necessary in light of his prediction.  

as for your glurge about the little girl who has cancer, you've claimed that believing in your myths takes away fear of death. Really?  Why are Christians the ones most desiring care to extend their lives http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/health/research/18faith.html?  Why do Christians cry at funerals? Religion does not help anyone cast their cares away. It only adds to them, the fears that you aren't satisfying your god, that you will be sent to hell, that your loved ones if they dont' believe like you (because you're sure you're going to heaven aren't you) will be eternally tortured.  

Of course, you'll desperately avoid acknowleging that Zeus was famous and worshipped and evidently not existent, just like your god seems to be. We have no more evidence that your god exists than we do that Zeus did.  If you feel differently, then you'll provide evidence of your claims.  Just to be clear, using the evidence we have, we can demonstrate that your god is non-existent just like any other god.  If you wish to counter this, provide your evidence. 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 09:20:58 AM by velkyn »
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Offline Gimpy

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #198 on: September 29, 2010, 10:01:30 AM »
Of course, you'll desperately avoid acknowleging that Zeus was famous and worshipped and evidently not existent, just like your god seems to be. We have no more evidence that your god exists than we do that Zeus did.  If you feel differently, then you'll provide evidence of your claims.  Just to be clear, using the evidence we have, we can demonstrate that your god is non-existent just like any other god.  If you wish to counter this, provide your evidence. 

I always find this interesting. We have the benefit of hindsight in reading all the things that people believed about ancient "gods" and we read them with curiosity with a touch of entertainment.

But we forget that those "gods" were as "real" to the vast numbers of people who believed in them as bible god or allah or vishnu is to the people who believe in them today.

Those "gods" were so real, that a tremendous amount of energy and resources went into building great monuments and preserving their stories.

Look at all the tombs in egypt that depict and describe the egyptian gods. Look at all the artifacts today from greece. Even the mayans and atzecs left tremendous relics and items behind depicting their god-beliefs.

These weren't just "stories" and quaint myths to them. These were their reality. And these god-beings were an integral part of everyday life for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

So I find it hilarious when today's theists pooh-pooh Zeus or Odin . . . or Thor or Ra. . .
Not all those who wander are lost; some are buried in my backyard. . .

Offline Hatter23

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #199 on: September 30, 2010, 09:29:44 AM »
.....the MAJORITY of true Christians.

Looking forward to the day when everyone agrees what a "True Christian" is.

You've come up with your interpretation (backed by scripture), they've come up with theirs (also backed by scripture).  They say they are True Christians, you say YOU are a True Christian.

Explain how we - on the outside - can tell.  NOT by quoting scripture (they can do that too), but by detailing exactly how you know your interpretation is correct.

And,while you're about it, how about answering my question about Zeus?  Or are True Christians unable to admit it when they've made an error?

As soon as I saw "Cite a Modern day example," I knew, just knew, that a 'No true Scottsman' was going to happen soon. Godbots are so predictable.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #200 on: September 30, 2010, 09:37:28 AM »

These weren't just "stories" and quaint myths to them. These were their reality. And these god-beings were an integral part of everyday life for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

So I find it hilarious when today's theists pooh-pooh Zeus or Odin . . . or Thor or Ra. . .

or say "How could we even think to make a comparison." The comparison is evident as that of language. Lauguage arose and fell with the cultures that used them, often they didn't "die" but in a time of turmoil transformed into another launguage thats around today, often mixing bits of other languages nearby. Christianity looks just like a jewish heresy, mixed in with some Plantonic metaphysics, and Eygyptian mysticism.

Look at the time and location it arose in....what a shock.  :o

 
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline luisveras

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #201 on: December 09, 2010, 01:26:52 AM »
What about when he said "Sell your possessions and give to the poor." (Luke 12:33)
Telling people to sell their possessions and give to the poor sounds like excellent advice to me.  Christians all over the world follow this advice all the time.

Actually, Christians all over the world follow their own interpretation of this advice.

By the way, if your god tells you to do something, it's not 'advice', it's an order, or else you'll go to hell.

Offline Operator_020

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Re: A response to the video "Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus"?
« Reply #202 on: December 09, 2010, 11:28:06 AM »
Hi luisveras,

Welcome to our forum.  The post you have replied to is three months old.  I am not even certain whether AlexBP even participates here anymore.  His last log-in was October 13, so I doubt he will respond. 

In the future, please restrict your posting to more current threads. Or, if the topic is just too interesting for you to not discuss, start a new thread.  Thanks.

Happy posting,
020
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