Author Topic: Belly button  (Read 903 times)

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2016, 12:23:35 PM »


Looks like you forgot to read that last paragraph Jaime wrote.  I left it in the quote for you.

Your faith in that matter is fine, but you really should recognize it is blind faith and completely useless to you (and us) in terms of knowledge.  It means all your biblical protestations against evolution and other science stand on blind faith as a foundation.  It means nothing you say about God, Jesus or religion is worth a hill of beans.

I have said many times before that even if Christianity did not exist, I would still be skeptical of evolution.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online Defiance

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2016, 12:29:03 PM »
Skeptic, did you forget that thread I made for you, to ask em about Evolution?

Q: Why are quantum physicists bad lovers? A: Because when they find the position, they can't find the momentum, and when they have the momentum, they can't find the position.

source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/schooljokes/physicsjokes.html

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2016, 01:29:37 PM »
I have said many times before that even if Christianity did not exist, I would still be skeptical of evolution.

What does this have to do with the fact that your faith is meaningless in terms of truth?
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2016, 01:59:58 PM »
I have said many times before that even if Christianity did not exist, I would still be skeptical of evolution.
Which is a tacit admission that your belief in Christianity makes no actual difference.  Which is fair, I suppose, since all you have to support your belief in Christianity is blind faith, and as I and several others have pointed out to you, blind faith doesn't change what you know or don't know.

That's the advantage of science; you can base it on actual knowledge, rather than on blind faith, and so your conclusions have something solid to stand on.
Please let me know if you have problems with something I say, so that we can discuss it amicably.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2016, 08:36:14 PM »
I have said many times before that even if Christianity did not exist, I would still be skeptical of evolution.

Perhaps.  But I find it unlikely.  And it does not damage my point about faith and truth.
What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline albeto

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2016, 09:18:56 PM »
I have said many times before that even if Christianity did not exist, I would still be skeptical of evolution.

Not likely. Without xianity, the likelihood of another religion suppressing the knowledge of such a rudimentary aspect of biology is pretty low. You'd likely have heard references to evolution since you were a child. You would have grown up knowing dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, you would have picked your jaw up off the ground the first time someone told you modern day birds are related, and you would have learned a bit more. Over the years these little experiences would have woven together a general but sufficient understanding of what evolution is and how it works. The lessons you'd learn from your parents wouldn't have included a 6000-10,000 year old earth, or the idea that biodiversity can be explained by a single week's work. You'd have no reason to be any more skeptical of it than you are of gravity. It likely wouldn't occur to you or anyone you know to be skeptical of it. It would be totally normal to you. Granted, another superstitious belief would likely impact your perceptions, as we are generally superstitious creatures, but only those superstitions you would be familiar with.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2016, 01:30:46 PM »
I have said many times before that even if Christianity did not exist, I would still be skeptical of evolution.

Not likely. Without xianity, the likelihood of another religion suppressing the knowledge of such a rudimentary aspect of biology is pretty low. You'd likely have heard references to evolution since you were a child. You would have grown up knowing dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, you would have picked your jaw up off the ground the first time someone told you modern day birds are related, and you would have learned a bit more. Over the years these little experiences would have woven together a general but sufficient understanding of what evolution is and how it works. The lessons you'd learn from your parents wouldn't have included a 6000-10,000 year old earth, or the idea that biodiversity can be explained by a single week's work. You'd have no reason to be any more skeptical of it than you are of gravity. It likely wouldn't occur to you or anyone you know to be skeptical of it. It would be totally normal to you. Granted, another superstitious belief would likely impact your perceptions, as we are generally superstitious creatures, but only those superstitions you would be familiar with.

I did not learn those things from my parents. I was an atheist when I was younger and then became a Christian later on in life. I am skeptical of evolution because some of the things do not add up in my mind.

I was listening to a lecture by Lloyd Pye and before you guys go bonkers, he believes evolution is false but aliens made us. I do not agree with him about the aliens but when he's pointing out all the lies that the scientists tell us about evolution, that is what makes sense.

He pointed out how skeletons are constructed to look pre-human because they are paid to go out and find pre-human fossils. So they have to skew the data to make it fit in order to get paid. He was showing how the arm of an early hominid is actually much longer and should almost reach the floor, but scientists doctored the arm to make it appear shorter and more human.

He also pointed out how there is no "gradual change" between the neanderthal skulls, hominid skulls, Australopithecus skulls, and the human skulls. You have a fully formed neanderthal skull then you have a fully formed hominid skull. There is nothing showing "small change." The evidence shows "rapid change." Our jaws are nothing like our ancestors despite being told that we come from them. Their jaws do not show "gradual change" to our jaws. It shows completely different jaws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe6DN1OoxjE
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 01:32:57 PM by skeptic54768 »
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2016, 01:34:37 PM »
We've had this discussion before. You do not understand evolution. Learn it first, then try to debate it.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2016, 01:44:28 PM »
We've had this discussion before. You do not understand evolution. Learn it first, then try to debate it.

I believe that was his point. We are told that going from "skull to skull to skull to skull" shows evidence of gradual changes over time. But, each "skull to skull" does not show gradual change. I saw the skulls lined up side by side. Each skull is completely different than the one before it which shows rapid change, not gradual change.

If you take a look at the skulls yourself doing a google search, you will see each skull is completely different than the one before it. There is no "gradual change."
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 01:47:02 PM by skeptic54768 »
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline One Above All

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2016, 01:52:00 PM »
We've had this discussion before. You do not understand evolution. Learn it first, then try to debate it.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2016, 04:49:16 PM »
Yes, people, even in the relevant fields, disagree about what fossils, bones and skulls tell us. We have found too few fossils to make a perfect complete uninterrupted record of human evolutionary history from modern humans all the way back. We may never have that kind of record. Not every single kind of hominid left lots of fossils behind for us to find. But that does not matter. We don't even have to look at fossils, skulls and bones anymore, skeptic. We can prove evolution in lots of ways besides fossils.

For one, we have this thing called DNA nowadays. The DNA record supports what we have figured out from the fossils we have found. The DNA demonstrates, without a doubt, exactly the same things evolutionary theory predicted about, for example,  the relationship between humans, chimps and other primates.

First, you can observe for yourself that there are far more similarities between chimps and humans than between, say, cats and humans, or parrots and humans, or lizards and humans, or hyenas and humans. The skeletons are more similar, the behavior, the social organizations, etc. are all more similar. That is Darwin-type 19th century observation--what your alien guy is doing.

But then, if you look at the DNA, you see exactly how much closer humans and chimps are to each other than to any of the other animals I mentioned. You do not have to just go by the length of an arm bone or whatever. You can see it in the DNA.  You can actually look and see where the genes are similar and where they became different.[1]

We even have mapped the Neanderthal genome, so we know that they and homo sapiens interbred. DNA research is going to tell us far more about non-human hominid species than was ever possible with the relatively small number of fossils. That is 21st century science. What your alien guy appears to know nothing about.

When a completely new, unrelated field (genetics) supports-- or disproves-- what an earlier field (archeology) found, that is just about the best evidence that you can expect from science.

Despite what some alien conspiracy theory crackpot thinks about other scientists faking data and getting paid big bucks for it.  What a joke, someone is paying big bucks for fake fossils?  Can I make big bucks finding fake fossils from my own home computer with no experience? Is there a Nigerian prince involved? Please have your alien guy let me know how to get one of those jobs![2]
 1.  Go watch this 5 minute video, probably shorter than your alien guy's, and report back to us, skeptic. The guy shows his work--he lists the scientists who have done the research. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJU9LTNy8bA
 2. There are a handful of sellout scientists doing fake science for pay, but they are not in archeology or anthropology. They are in the business of climate science denial, and are really paid big bucks by the oil companies. Or they work for the Discovery Institute or some other "think tank". They do not waste their time teaching, either, believe me. Few reputable colleges or universities will employ them. Besides, teaching is hard and does not pay nearly as well.
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Re: Belly button
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2016, 09:14:19 AM »
Speaking of Neanderthals, I wonder, did they have their own evidence of culture and religion too?  If so, wouldn't that make them as human as we are, but slightly different genetically?
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Offline albeto

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2016, 11:43:50 AM »
I did not learn those things from my parents. I was an atheist when I was younger and then became a Christian later on in life. I am skeptical of evolution because some of the things do not add up in my mind.

Understood. I stand corrected. Where did you grow up, and what kind of xian are you now?

I find it interesting that regardless of having dismissed evidence, you've concluded the mythological stories to adopt are the ones that walk hand in hand with most cultures in traditional western civilization. For example, I've not heard you refer to the Spirit Master of the Center of Heaven, the August Wondrously Producing Spirit, and the Divine Wondrously Producing Ancestor, the three first deities to have ever existed. They went on to create Japan of course. You don't mention the time before this earth existed, when humans lived in the sky and they were ruled by a great chief. The Seneca people who lived in the Iroquois Nation in what is now central and western New York and Pennsylvania knew this to be the true origins of mankind. You don't mention Sa (who is Death), and his wife and and their only daughter, who lived for some time in mud and instability until the god Alatangana came to visit. Appalled with these living conditions, Alatangana consolidated the mud into the solid earth. He made plants to cover the new earth, and then animals to live on it. Even Sa realized that Alatangana had made the world a much better place, and he took Alatangana in as his guest, but you forget to remind us of this. You rely only on the story that is familiar to western civilization, the stories of El and Yahweh and later of Jesus.

You do not seem find it incredibly good fortune that the story of your culture just so happens to be the right story, the one that will save you from eternal torment. Despite all the other stories that have been honored throughout time, sincerely and genuinely believed, and preserved for the good of mankind, the one that's common in your culture just so happens to be the only one worth believing. Whew! That's a stroke of luck right there! Can you imagine if you had been born in Guinea 300 years ago and believed that Sa really was Death? Man, you would have been royally screwed. You'd be writhing in pain and torture right now! Still! And it would never end! Praise Jesus!

Anyway, you say you reject evolution because you don't understand it. I amend my comment to suggest that the lessons you'd learn from your community wouldn't have included a 6000-10,000 year old earth, or the idea that biodiversity can be explained by a single week's work, and if you cannot understand evolution, you would have grabbed onto whatever story appealed to your emotional needs at the time of your exploration. Yours is a prime example of how this mind virus extends into atheist families through cultural exposure such as schools, holidays, public festivals, etc. My sister is the same way. She's given up reality to believe the xian creation story despite our never having been immersed in it as children. However, we were absolutely aware of the bible stories. I don't think one can grow up in America and not have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the main cast of characters and the major stories.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2016, 12:28:22 PM »
Speaking of Neanderthals, I wonder, did they have their own evidence of culture and religion too?  If so, wouldn't that make them as human as we are, but slightly different genetically?

The more we learn about them, the more we think that that were a lot like homo sapiens. Stands to reason, if they were close enough genetically to interbreed. Modern humans have Neander DNA, esp. those with European ancestry.
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Online CrystalDragon

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Re: Belly button
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2016, 01:11:56 PM »
Speaking of Neanderthals, I wonder, did they have their own evidence of culture and religion too?  If so, wouldn't that make them as human as we are, but slightly different genetically?

The more we learn about them, the more we think that that were a lot like homo sapiens. Stands to reason, if they were close enough genetically to interbreed. Modern humans have Neander DNA, esp. those with European ancestry.

Neat, then that means  probably at least one of my ancestors was a Neanderthal.:). Reminds me of how there was this one article on Cracked I saw that mentioned that:  http://www.cracked.com/article_19161_the-6-creepiest-things-hiding-in-your-dna.html Rather than finding it creepy though I found it awesome.
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