Author Topic: inner Life of a single cell  (Read 113 times)

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Offline dennis

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inner Life of a single cell
« on: December 19, 2014, 04:42:16 AM »


looks pretty random :)
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: inner Life of a single cell
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2014, 09:39:11 AM »


looks pretty random :)

There's a problem with your link.  Check the URL again.

It is a little funny though.  The 'broken Youtube' screen is a simulation of old static noise from back in the days of analog TV reception.  But it's only a simulation - it looks really, really random, but it is entirely deterministic.  Randomness is such a misunderstood concept.  How many people do you think would agree with the statement "the inner working of a single cell is random," dennis?
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: inner Life of a single cell
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2014, 10:37:10 AM »
looks pretty random :)
Actually, it looks like you posted the link wrong.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: inner Life of a single cell
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2014, 11:14:46 AM »
Dennis

I assume I know which video it is that you were trying to post. Pretty incredible, isn’t it.

What you’re trying to say is that it is too complex to have happened merely by chance. This is because you underestimate the ability of chaos to create complexity. And that such complexity is required when no designer was involved. Inefficiencies abound.

If life is as complex as we are finding it to be and your god did it, then he too is bound by rules, of physics, of chemistry, of biology. Because to whip out a dude via dirt or a dudette via ribs (remember, he used two different processes and yet the same cellular stuff is happening in both sexes), for him to be forced to use such intricate and unimaginable processes means that he’s not all that powerful. Powerful enough to make cells, yes, but powerful enough to be able to avoid making incredibly complex cells and still have life, no.
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Re: inner Life of a single cell
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2014, 07:37:14 PM »
I believe Dennis was referring to this:

   

Look at it this way, Dennis.  If you go out during a snowfall, it is believably random because of the way the snow is swirling around everywhere, and then you see a single crystallized snowflake that I believe we all find beautiful and fascinating - that is simply the natural ice crystallization of water.

   
Quote
The story begins up in a cloud, when a minute cloud droplet first freezes into a tiny particle of ice.  As water vapor starts condensing on its surface, the ice particle quickly develops facets, thus becoming a small hexagonal prism.  For a while it keeps this simple faceted shape as it grows.
   As the crystal becomes larger, however, branches begin to sprout from the six corners of the hexagon (this is the third stage in the diagram at right).  Since the atmospheric conditions (e. g. temperature and humidity) are nearly constant across the small crystal, the six budding arms all grow out at roughly the same rate.



http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/faqs/faqs.htm

There is no reason to think a deity is needed for that.
____________________________________________________

   Evolution of life on earth over 4 billion years is the same way, step by step - if you start with the fact that carbon automatically forms chains (without god) and attracts oxygens and nitrogens, and phosphorus, potassium, magnesium, etc. - all these common elements here on earth readily combine to form all types of compounds. 

Look up cyanobacteria in wiki, Dennis -

Quote
Stromatolites are layered biochemical accretionary structures formed in shallow water by the trapping, binding, and cementation of sedimentary grains by biofilms (microbial mats) of microorganisms, especially cyanobacteria.
Recent research has suggested the potential application of cyanobacteria to the generation of renewable energy by converting sunlight into electricity.
   Science theory is that this type of thing is the basis of it all, except it did not happen once 6000 years ago, it happened, step by step, 3.5 billion years ago with trillions (quadrillions?) of little earth experiments since.  It seems possible our cells, our bodies, are collections of very competitive symbiotic organisms.   Now, if you think a god did this, then why can't' we fly, breathe underwater, and are monstrous enough to kill elephants?  Things are the way they are only because that is how it has evolved. It is silly to think god put the sun where it is so that our 98.6 degree bodies would be fairly comfortable.  Things are the opposite of that.

At least consider the possibility, Dennis.




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Re: inner Life of a single cell
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2014, 10:47:51 PM »
Just took my Bio AP exam. Got an A in that class. I think I'm well enough qualified to talk about this. :)

Do you know what DNA is?
Do you know how it replicates?
Do you know how it controls and codes for basically all the components of a cell?
Do you know why it has the knooks and cranies? JUST to ensure that the DNA itself is passed on indefinitely.

Why? Hell if I'd know. As far as I know, we don't have a solid theory on why exactly it "wants" to "live" on. Quotes because DNA itself is not alive, and therefore doesn't want anything. If anyone knows, please correct me.

I'm assuming your "looks random" was sarcastic. Guess what? It still is.

All sorts of atoms are constantly flying around. Sometimes because of environmental conditions, they bond in a certain way.

When this happens, you have what are called "emergent properties". These are new properties of the molecule as a whole that atoms individually don't have.

Then the chain just goes down. Randomness seemingly turns into specific instructions. Then you have things like phospholipids. These babies make up the membranes of the cells; wanna guess their emergent property? Selective permeability. They can react to certain molecules and ions, and react accordingly to either let them in, or keep them out. This is all the random bumping of atoms everywhere. Either it bonds to something and does something, or it doesn't.

DNA codes for it; it makes proteins and such that react to specific things, things that other proteins may not react to. This way, it seems like a cell is "instructed" to do something by sheer intelligence. Nope. Simple cause and effect, whose variety is powered by randomness, allowing a cell to do seemingly endless tasks, as if intelligently instructed.

Beautiful example: Photo respiration. In plants, there is this little enzyme called Rubisco. In the Calvin cycle, it is essential in carbon fixation. Anywho, sometimes it randomly picks up O2 (oxygen), instead of the usual CO2 (this actually happens more than you think). What does this do? Waste one ATP and one NAD(PH). Just a waste.

Why? Because oxygen fits into the enzyme too. Instruction? Randomness.

My favorite part is the motor protein. Power by ATP and pulling the vesicles all throughout the cell to make sure it stays alive.

Why? To pass on DNA.
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Offline dennis

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Re: inner Life of a single cell
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2014, 07:24:05 PM »
looks pretty random :)
Actually, it looks like you posted the link wrong.

It does seem so, not sure how. But I will try to do better next time - sorry
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Offline dennis

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Re: inner Life of a single cell
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2014, 07:26:18 PM »
Just took my Bio AP exam. Got an A in that class. I think I'm well enough qualified to talk about this. :)

Do you know what DNA is?
Do you know how it replicates?
Do you know how it controls and codes for basically all the components of a cell?
Do you know why it has the knooks and cranies? JUST to ensure that the DNA itself is passed on indefinitely.

Why? Hell if I'd know. As far as I know, we don't have a solid theory on why exactly it "wants" to "live" on. Quotes because DNA itself is not alive, and therefore doesn't want anything. If anyone knows, please correct me.

I'm assuming your "looks random" was sarcastic. Guess what? It still is.

All sorts of atoms are constantly flying around. Sometimes because of environmental conditions, they bond in a certain way.

When this happens, you have what are called "emergent properties". These are new properties of the molecule as a whole that atoms individually don't have.

Then the chain just goes down. Randomness seemingly turns into specific instructions. Then you have things like phospholipids. These babies make up the membranes of the cells; wanna guess their emergent property? Selective permeability. They can react to certain molecules and ions, and react accordingly to either let them in, or keep them out. This is all the random bumping of atoms everywhere. Either it bonds to something and does something, or it doesn't.

DNA codes for it; it makes proteins and such that react to specific things, things that other proteins may not react to. This way, it seems like a cell is "instructed" to do something by sheer intelligence. Nope. Simple cause and effect, whose variety is powered by randomness, allowing a cell to do seemingly endless tasks, as if intelligently instructed.

Beautiful example: Photo respiration. In plants, there is this little enzyme called Rubisco. In the Calvin cycle, it is essential in carbon fixation. Anywho, sometimes it randomly picks up O2 (oxygen), instead of the usual CO2 (this actually happens more than you think). What does this do? Waste one ATP and one NAD(PH). Just a waste.

Why? Because oxygen fits into the enzyme too. Instruction? Randomness.

My favorite part is the motor protein. Power by ATP and pulling the vesicles all throughout the cell to make sure it stays alive.

Why? To pass on DNA.

It wasn't. Smiley face because it lacked a tongue-in-cheek smiley face.

I actually posted the video because it is amazing/cool...
God loves atheists more than many christians.
Revelations 3:16
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My Intro contains my POV if you want to know where I stand on issues.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,27546.0.html