Author Topic: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?  (Read 148 times)

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jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« on: December 20, 2014, 06:18:12 AM »
interested as dennis claims lots of evidence for jesus existing, wonder how you would refute this book?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 10:37:05 AM »
That's an interesting resource that seems largely to be on the right track. It is certainly something for theists to think about.

I only disagree when it come to the origin of Judaism. The site suggests the Jews existed before the Exile. I am not persuaded that even an enlightened emperor would send back to their place of origin people who had been brought to Babylon. So I rather think that the people sent to Israel by Cyrus originally came from other places - note they were the upper classes of society - and they heard about the old gods of Canaan and created a religion and a set of texts thus creating Judaism from the Canaanite religion. They would have heard a lot of the Babylonian and Persian religions and parts of them are indeed in the Jewish texts.

There was, of course, not servitude in Egypt, no conquering the promised land and no exile - it all starts when the upper class people go to Israel for the first time. I suspect they conceived of religion as a way to control the people of the land better.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2014, 11:57:22 AM »
Sounds like propaganda to me.

Where are the books on Mohammad not existing?
Where are the books on Hercules not existing?
Where are the books on Buddha not existing?
Where are the books on the Hindu gods not existing?

It's always "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" That's how I know it's propaganda with an agenda. Nobody cares about anyone else. They are only fixated on Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline wheels5894

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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 12:35:13 PM »
Well, Skep, I did post a thread a while ago about Hercules but I'll leave that for now. Presently we are debating Christians not Muslims. Christians are fixated on Jesus aren't they? If oyu want to talk about something else, why not start a thread about, say, Muhammad and Islam or Joseph Smith and the Mormons?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 01:59:18 PM »
"That's how I know it's propaganda with an agenda."

because a book about jesus is about jesus????

dam, and you call yrself a skeptic.
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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2014, 06:11:56 PM »
Had a look thanks.
For the sake of transparency, I did not click on any of the links. (But I recognise some topics)

-- so many, where to start (I am a bit time-poor at the mo_)
-- no ABOUT page, so I don't know who they are (source credence)
-- and I worry about motive when the PayPal button emerges (whether you are evangelist/ apologist or atheist)

It is accepted by me and most around here that there are two sides to the same story and simply gathering all the evidence in one place does not change the weight of evidence.

I am a bit lazy, but I am pretty sure if irrefutable evidence emerges about the existence of Jesus, I'd hear about it on the 6PM news.)

I know you (or Nam) are going to say that my response is proof that I am not willing to change my mind, but that is purely because you won't accept what I said on good faith. But I have a few other threads where I owe comments, and that is taking my time right now.
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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2014, 06:16:32 PM »
thanks for the non-answer, I thought a "scholar" like yrself would jump on this, a bit more up to date than anselm's argument, the cosmological argument...etc that seems to be as far as you are prepared to go in your "quest", just find old, very old (and done to death) arguments to confirm yr biases.
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Offline Timo

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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 12:48:39 AM »
Sounds like propaganda to me.

Where are the books on Mohammad not existing?
Where are the books on Hercules not existing?
Where are the books on Buddha not existing?
Where are the books on the Hindu gods not existing?

It's always "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" That's how I know it's propaganda with an agenda. Nobody cares about anyone else. They are only fixated on Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

Whatever the merits of the view that Jesus was not a historical person are or are not, it's a minority view in the field of New Testament scholarship. The vast majority of New Testament scholars affirm the existence of a historical Jesus and identify as Christians. Their conferences often open with a prayer. If you look at academic books that explore these questions, even books written on a popular level by non-Christians like Bart Ehrman and Reza Aslan, you'll find that they mostly accept that Jesus was a real person that we can learn about by studying the Gospels and other materials.

So yeah, do the authors of that site have an agenda? Probably. They're trying to popularize a minority view. With that being the case, why should we hold it against them if they're not dealing with the historicity of Muhammad or the Buddha? That's not what they're interested in.
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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 04:04:02 AM »
Sounds like propaganda to me.

Where are the books on Mohammad not existing?
Where are the books on Hercules not existing?
Where are the books on Buddha not existing?
Where are the books on the Hindu gods not existing?

It's always "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" That's how I know it's propaganda with an agenda. Nobody cares about anyone else. They are only fixated on Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

I know, right? It's like the Bible all over again.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline Nam

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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 05:52:23 AM »
Sounds like propaganda to me.

Where are the books on Mohammad not existing?
Where are the books on Hercules not existing?
Where are the books on Buddha not existing?
Where are the books on the Hindu gods not existing?

It's always "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" That's how I know it's propaganda with an agenda. Nobody cares about anyone else. They are only fixated on Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

I know, right? It's like the Bible all over again.

Which one?

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: jesus never existed, book; dennis, what say you?
« Reply #10 on: Today at 04:47:28 PM »
there won't be any of those books, Skep, because...

Where are the books on Mohammad not existing?

...he is extremely well documented in a way xians can only dream of.  He was so influential in his time - unlike a certain jewish carpenter - no one questions his existence. 

Where are the books on Hercules not existing?

... no one claims he existed because we all agree he's fiction.  There are also no books refuting mermaids, leprechauns or werewolves.

Where are the books on Buddha not existing?

...he was documented.  What he is attributed with saying is important, not the guy, himself.  So, even if he didn't exist, it is irrelevant.  That is your albatross, skep.  If jesus wasn't real, your whole system is shot to hell.

Where are the books on the Hindu gods not existing?

...they probably do exist, had you bothered to look (admit it, you didn't bother). But you are comparing gods to a guy.  Categorical error.


It's always "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" That's how I know it's propaganda with an agenda. Nobody cares about anyone else. They are only fixated on Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

see above.  Also, no one loves a whiner.

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