Author Topic: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?  (Read 424 times)

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2014, 11:49:29 AM »
To be fair, accounts of supernatural events look decidedly dodgy when we consider when they have happened.


1. various in OT and NT up to, say 70CE

<quiet patch, nothing.>

2. 600s and Big Mo starts getting dictation of the Qur'an. He gets a ride on a winged horse (Pegasus from the legends maybe) and gets take to Jerusalem and then on up into heaven.

<quiet patch, nothing.>

3. 1700s, Joseph Smith - angels, gold plates the lot.

<quiet patch, nothing.>

In other words, either the one god? or many god, start religions and disappear

OR

People start religions and claim the magical events really happened.

Occam[1] would have a thing to say here, I'm sure.
 1. I wonder what Occam would think to be still quoted 1,000 years after his death?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2014, 09:15:28 PM »
Time for this one: let's assume there is this really powerful god who could let everyone know that he existed, and wanted everyone to know he existed. If there was such a being,  we all would know he existed.

There would be no way to not know, positively, that he existed. There would be no atheists who do not believe he exists, or "agnostics" who are not sure if he exists. We would all know that there was a god, the way we all know that there is the sun. Other than the severely mentally ill, there are no atheists or agnostics on the existence of the sun.

Since we do not all know of this god's existence, we have to re-examine our initial assumptions about this god. So, our choices are: 1) the god exists, but is not powerful enough to let every one know about him, 2) the god exists, but does not want everyone to know about him, or 3) this god does not exist so there is no god to know about.

If there is a hole in my logic, dennis, please point it out because I need to know. This is like, Chapter One of my atheist book. In fact, this is all of my atheist book. The rest is filler and jokes.  ;)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline dennis

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2014, 09:58:40 PM »
typing ona tablet here pc suffering blue screen of death, so back later  to reply. (must be all that atheist karma directed at me,)
Joke...
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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2014, 11:34:46 PM »
typing ona tablet here pc suffering blue screen of death, so back later  to reply. (must be all that atheist karma directed at me,)
Joke...

Dude, I'm outside in the freezing cold (for a Floridian 50 degrees) typing a phone. If I can do it, you can do it.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 10:03:41 PM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

You have to prove yourself to Him!

What does God owe us? Absolutely nothing.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 11:11:20 PM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

You have to prove yourself to Him!

What does God owe us? Absolutely nothing.

If we took him to court, I think we could get a couple of billion each. For his threats, harassment, mass murders and of course, for raping Mary.

I hear that he admits it all in a book he wrote. He wouldn't stand a chance.

Seriously skep, listen to yourself. All you need to love him is the mere claim that he exists. All you need to do to join him in condemning all of us is assume you agree with him. Even though he doesn't talk to us humans.  The whole thing is bass akwards. And you are simplifying existence to such an extent that your resulting philosophical (and I use that term loosely) conclusions is truly meaningless.

Building your whole life around nothing will not end well.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 11:29:12 PM »
^ I disagree, building your whole life around nothing is much better than building your whole around a lie.



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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 11:45:12 PM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

But you say he did to you. Just not to other people.
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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 11:50:15 PM »
no skep analysed all the overwhelming evidence for jesus, refuted all known biology, physics, geology, mathematics, history, philosophy, psychology, sociology...etc in a brilliant series of peer reviewed papers, reached an inescapable conclusion that god existed and only then did god write a cryptic personal message in blood on a wall for him, and him only,  to privately witness.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:52:09 PM by eh! »
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Online Aaron123

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #38 on: Today at 12:23:30 AM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

You have to prove yourself to Him!

What does God owe us? Absolutely nothing.

It's very strange.  If god didn't exist, this is the exact sort of thing I would expect to see.

I expect a non-existence being to never show itself before me, I expect a non-existence being to never "prove" itself before me.  I would expect its followers to try and turn the argument around by telling me to "prove myself" before it (whatever that's suppose to mean...).  Also, its followers never expects their god to show himself in a plain and obvious manner, which is what I'd expect if it was non-existence.

I can't understand why god likes to act as though he didn't exist.  I know there's an answer to this, but I can't quite place it...  :blank:
« Last Edit: Today at 12:25:55 AM by Aaron123 »
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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #39 on: Today at 01:26:13 AM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

You have to prove yourself to Him!

What does God owe us? Absolutely nothing.

If we took him to court, I think we could get a couple of billion each. For his threats, harassment, mass murders and of course, for raping Mary.

I hear that he admits it all in a book he wrote. He wouldn't stand a chance.

Seriously skep, listen to yourself. All you need to love him is the mere claim that he exists. All you need to do to join him in condemning all of us is assume you agree with him. Even though he doesn't talk to us humans.  The whole thing is bass akwards. And you are simplifying existence to such an extent that your resulting philosophical (and I use that term loosely) conclusions is truly meaningless.

Building your whole life around nothing will not end well.

God did not rape Mary. Mary is quoted in the Bible saying that it's OK.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online skeptic54768

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #40 on: Today at 01:29:01 AM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

But you say he did to you. Just not to other people.

That is the problem for you guys, isn't it?

Perhaps God revealed Himself to me because I proved myself to Him.
I can't tell you what I did or how I did it, but perhaps I did it nonetheless.

Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online skeptic54768

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #41 on: Today at 01:31:23 AM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

You have to prove yourself to Him!

What does God owe us? Absolutely nothing.

It's very strange.  If god didn't exist, this is the exact sort of thing I would expect to see.

I expect a non-existence being to never show itself before me, I expect a non-existence being to never "prove" itself before me.  I would expect its followers to try and turn the argument around by telling me to "prove myself" before it (whatever that's suppose to mean...).  Also, its followers never expects their god to show himself in a plain and obvious manner, which is what I'd expect if it was non-existence.

I can't understand why god likes to act as though he didn't exist.  I know there's an answer to this, but I can't quite place it...  :blank:

I understand what you saying perfectly.

Trouble is, I disagree. I have always said that I wouldn't expect anything to exist at all if God was not real.

You view this universe as exactly what you would expect if there's no God.
I view this universe as impossible without God.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #42 on: Today at 01:40:01 AM »
no skep analysed all the overwhelming evidence for jesus, refuted all known biology, physics, geology, mathematics, history, philosophy, psychology, sociology...etc in a brilliant series of peer reviewed papers, reached an inescapable conclusion that god existed and only then did god write a cryptic personal message in blood on a wall for him, and him only,  to privately witness.

I have analyzed the evidence for jesus years ago. I used to have pages of bookmarks to show atheists on various forums. Then one day my computer crashed because of a virus and I lost the links and couldn't find them anymore.

You could probably find them if you were truly interested in finding out about Jesus. But, most likely you don't want to find out. You just want to make jokes about me on this forum to score points with your internet atheist buddies.

it shouldn't be that way.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online Azdgari

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #43 on: Today at 01:45:02 AM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

Who said anything about the god proving itself[1] to us?

When someone proves himself to you, you already know that person exists.  Knowing someone exists has to happen before the question of "proving yourself" even comes up.

The problem is not that no god is proving itself to us.  It is that the god, if it exists, refrains from showing its existence at all.

Before two people/beings can even contemplate whether or not to prove themselves to each other, they first each have to know that the other exists.  Why do you always try to skip that part?
 1. As in, proving to be worth following, etc.
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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #44 on: Today at 01:49:00 AM »
That is the problem for you guys, isn't it?

Perhaps God revealed Himself to me because I proved myself to Him.
I can't tell you what I did or how I did it, but perhaps I did it nonetheless.

If your god is real and has the qualities you ascribe to it, then there is no need for anyone to prove their existence to it.  The god already knows that each human who exists, exists.  Why would anyone need to prove their existence to a god?
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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #45 on: Today at 01:58:08 AM »
That is the problem for you guys, isn't it?

Perhaps God revealed Himself to me because I proved myself to Him.
I can't tell you what I did or how I did it, but perhaps I did it nonetheless.

If your god is real and has the qualities you ascribe to it, then there is no need for anyone to prove their existence to it.  The god already knows that each human who exists, exists.  Why would anyone need to prove their existence to a god?

Proved my worthiness, not my existence.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #46 on: Today at 02:00:10 AM »
Oh.  Well, what's that got to do with it?  Folks were talking about why the god doesn't prove its existence, not why it doesn't prove its worthiness.  They weren't asking about why a real god wouldn't "prove its worthiness" to us; that indeed would be arrogant to expect.  The question is why, if real, it's so shy about proving its existence.
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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #47 on: Today at 02:07:13 AM »
I understand what you saying perfectly.

Trouble is, I disagree. I have always said that I wouldn't expect anything to exist at all if God was not real.

You view this universe as exactly what you would expect if there's no God.
I view this universe as impossible without God.

No response to the actual points I made in my post?  I guess there wasn't much that was refutable...
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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #48 on: Today at 02:12:59 AM »
God doesn't show Himself because He doesn't have to prove Himself to you.

But you say he did to you. Just not to other people.

That is the problem for you guys, isn't it?

Perhaps God revealed Himself to me because I proved myself to Him.
I can't tell you what I did or how I did it, but perhaps I did it nonetheless.

weren't you a drug addict with a sick dog right before your conversion if I remember your story correctly - that the kind of proof god is looking for before he writes messages in blood on a wall??

why does the omniscient god need proof of anything - he already knows everything......unless he is not omniscient.


please post the scripture of mary giving god consent to impregnate her in her sleep.

how old do you think the lass was when god entered her?

why did he need to "do it" while she slept, I mean I know people that prefer the lights out but while your partner is sleeping????

he could have taken her to dinner at the inn  first, flowers, a burning bush perhaps, some goat meat, manna....not a very good role model for the youth.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:15:14 AM by eh! »
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Re: If Your God Is Real; Why Doesn't It Show Itself?
« Reply #49 on: Today at 02:23:01 AM »
"I have analyzed the evidence for jesus years ago. I used to have pages of bookmarks to show atheists on various forums. Then one day my computer crashed because of a virus and I lost the links and couldn't find them anymore."


eh / god moves in mysterious ways, invented that virus and sent it to your computer, mysterious ways indeed.

skepo / You could probably find them if you were truly interested in finding out about Jesus.


eh/ I am truly interested, show me, don't tell me about your computer virus.


skepo /  But, most likely you don't want to find out.

eh / wrong, it is the most important question ii can think of in my life and the life of those I love, just show me the evidence already

skep / You just want to make jokes about me on this forum to score points with your internet atheist buddies.

eh / wrong, I don't even like most of these people, I just want the truth.

skepo / it shouldn't be that way.

agreed, so show me the evidence

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