Author Topic: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.  (Read 301 times)

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Offline Ron Jeremy

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Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« on: July 21, 2017, 03:00:50 PM »
Exodus 22;

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Out of all the verses in the bible, this to me makes it utterly obvious that the book is an invention of men.

If an all powerful god really existed and if he really was that concerned about witches, then he is the ONLY one in a position to judge whether or not the accused is guilty. No one else except him has the knowledge to judge this.

The only reason it is in the book is that on account of the god being imaginary, men have to carry out this task.
Christians; this is proof your god is fictional. But please feel free to explain why I'm wrong.
If your god cannot physically appear before us, then it is imaginary.

It's as simple as that.

Offline Nick

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2017, 03:15:52 PM »
I was driving my brand new car yesterday and a black cat crosses the road in front of me.  First thing I thought of was the witch that cat belonged to.  Somehow I made it home without any problems.  Damn witches.  Why can't Trump deport them?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Emma286

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2017, 04:42:20 PM »
And if God was into free will, why doesn't he let us decide whether or not to suffer so called witches without his butting in and telling us not to?

He sure does a fair bit of telling us what to do in this book!

Offline Emma286

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2017, 04:46:25 PM »
I was driving my brand new car yesterday and a black cat crosses the road in front of me.  First thing I thought of was the witch that cat belonged to.  Somehow I made it home without any problems.  Damn witches.  Why can't Trump deport them?

They put a spell on him so he could never deport them! :-D

Offline Nick

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2017, 06:01:27 PM »
I don't know if you people here have noticed but Emma has a pic of a cat.  Just saying...
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2017, 06:25:03 PM »
Burn her. Burn the witch...!
If your god cannot physically appear before us, then it is imaginary.

It's as simple as that.

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2017, 06:27:55 PM »
...but that sadly is what that stupid man made book made happen. By giving absolutely no guidance, it left it open to any nutcase to declare what a witch was.
That verse is pure evil. Only fool can fail to see that.
If your god cannot physically appear before us, then it is imaginary.

It's as simple as that.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2017, 06:43:45 PM »
It actually isn't true that only fools could fail to see that.  You're judging from the perspective of the 21st century, where we have rational explanations for all sorts of things[1].  But what about back before science demonstrated its preeminence over religious belief?  Back when there were lots of things that people didn't understand, and the idea of witches seemed perfectly reasonable unless you could see the whole picture instead of just a little tiny part, like von Spee.

What you're saying is the same attitude as assuming that only a fool could fail to see the flaws in vitalism, in phlogiston, in alchemy.  But you have the advantage of hindsight.  If you had been born back then, you would have fallen for those things just as surely as everyone else did, unless you happened to be extremely lucky.  You have no idea just how difficult it is to see through the flawed thinking that makes that sort of thing possible.  Humans think that way by default - like it or not, we inherited it from our forebears, and natural selection plays no favorites.
 1. and even today, there's lots of places where that kind of rational scientific thinking has made no headway yet; even in this country
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2017, 08:20:23 PM »
It actually isn't true that only fools could fail to see ....

Blah Blah Blah....Enough with your rational discourse! Emma IS a witch! She turned me into a newt!
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 08:22:23 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2017, 10:10:32 PM »
It actually isn't true that only fools could fail to see ....

Blah Blah Blah....Enough with your rational discourse! Emma IS a witch! She turned me into a newt!

A newt?
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline wright

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2017, 10:33:15 PM »
Ah, the classics...

Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2017, 12:13:35 AM »
Next thing we know someone will try to compare her weight to that of a duck.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Emma286

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2017, 03:21:17 AM »
I don't know if you people here have noticed but Emma has a pic of a cat.  Just saying...

Damn you caught me out! Thought the tabby cat look would fool everyone but obviously not!  :laugh:

Yup, that was Nelly. :-) She was a rescue cat my parents had from late April to around late June this year (I think). Very affectionate and vocal cat (she could be very demanding and insistent with wanting attention and fuss but I didn't care) but (sadly) also really not well. Vet treatment only helped for so long and then we had to have her put down (which we always knew there was a high chance of us having to do at some stage after first taking her in).

Still, though she was only with us a short time she left Avery strong impression on the family. We fast grew very fond of her and will long remember her! :-)

Offline Emma286

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2017, 03:49:45 AM »
Ah, the classics...



Haha! Had forgotten about that part. The Holy Grail is my second favourite Monty Python movie!

Offline Emma286

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2017, 03:52:43 AM »
Next thing we know someone will try to compare her weight to that of a duck.

Though I'm losing weight, I'm not losing it so fast as that!

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2017, 04:59:35 AM »
You're judging from the perspective of the 21st century..

Isn't this the same perspective that present day Christians have?! I should have made it clear; I'm talking about present day believers in this book.
If your god cannot physically appear before us, then it is imaginary.

It's as simple as that.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2017, 07:05:15 AM »
That verse is ridiculous but whoever thought it was a good idea to say, " if you ask you shall receive " was an idiot.  I think that verse is the atheist maker. 

Ain't nothing like crying out to a god in despair and meeting the uncomfortable silence especially when you add the promise of a Comforter in there and the fact that you gave this invisible and silent thing your all in hopes of finding guidance and comfort.

Only humans can comfort you, sad!  Why sad? Because they won't.  They tell you to just get over it.

Words are like weapons, they cut like a knife into your psyche, they can lift you up or tear you down...

Online Jag

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2017, 08:52:26 AM »
^More than one contemporary politician has engaged the services of a spiritual leader to protect them from witches.  I'm with you Ron, going "wtf?"

"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2017, 09:03:36 AM »
It actually isn't true that only fools could fail to see ....

Blah Blah Blah....Enough with your rational discourse! Emma IS a witch! She turned me into a newt!

A newt?

I got better
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2017, 09:17:25 AM »
Isn't this the same perspective that present day Christians have?! I should have made it clear; I'm talking about present day believers in this book.
A lot of people who live in this century don't actually have what we would consider a 21st century perspective.  By which I mean a rational, technologically savvy modern outlook.  Even people who live in America (or other western countries), where this view is preeminent, don't always have it.  People get intimidated by computers and think that those who can fix them are wizards, for example.  I would say that there's an actual majority of people on the planet who do not have that kind of perspective - it requires education and knowledge, which isn't accessible to most people.  And, of course, just having access to education and knowledge isn't enough, either.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2017, 09:18:31 AM »
You're judging from the perspective of the 21st century..

Isn't this the same perspective that present day Christians have?! I should have made it clear; I'm talking about present day believers in this book.

Thing is though, it doesn't really help dispel the notion that witches are not real when you got stuff like this goin on.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39090334
Quote
At the stroke of midnight on Friday, followers of witchcraft across the US performed a mass spell designed to stop the president doing harm.

A Facebook group devoted to the ritual has attracted over 10,500 likes, and coined the hashtag #magicresistance.
The development has sparked fury among Christian conservatives, who have accused the witches of "declaring spiritual war".

So, yeah. I think our secular laws are having a positive impact of our lives in modern times. We've come a long way since Salem.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2017, 03:32:41 PM »
A lot of people who live in this century don't actually have what we would consider a 21st century perspective.  By which I mean a rational, technologically savvy modern outlook.  Even people who live in America (or other western countries), where this view is preeminent, don't always have it.  People get intimidated by computers and think that those who can fix them are wizards, for example.  I would say that there's an actual majority of people on the planet who do not have that kind of perspective - it requires education and knowledge, which isn't accessible to most people.  And, of course, just having access to education and knowledge isn't enough, either.

aka

a lot of people are simply ignorant and/or not very bright.

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Offline Astreja

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2017, 11:21:23 PM »
Back when there were lots of things that people didn't understand, and the idea of witches seemed perfectly reasonable unless you could see the whole picture instead of just a little tiny part, like von Spee.

I have a copy of Cautio Criminalis in my library, although I haven't had time to go through it yet.  Spee is one of my heroes -- His book was the beginning of the end for the witch trials.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2017, 11:54:07 PM »
Honestly, Astreja, I was thinking very specifically of him when I wrote that comment.

It is a massive shame that that book is not yet in Project Gutenburg[1].
 1. I know you can get it elsewhere, but I'd rather not trust some random website.
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Offline Basset Hound

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2017, 12:13:04 AM »
One reason not to cuss the Spanish Inquisition.  Only one.

There are NO witches.

If anybody says they are a witch, they are a deluded.

If anybody says somebody else is a witch, they are a liar.

It came down to, ultimately, There are NO witches, and we'll burn anybody at the stake who says there is.

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2017, 12:45:23 AM »
Actually, the Spanish Inquisition forced people to confess to being witches and then executed them for it.  So they shouldn't even get that much.
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 12:31:50 PM »
This is still something we should be concerned about it Africa. Adults and children get 'outed' as witches and killed - based on what was used in England centuries ago; someone's cattle die and so blame someone you don't like and say they are a witch. Then there's one less person in the village. Shocking in the 21st century.


Where I live, there's a bit of coast where witches used to be 'tried'. They were thrown into the sea and if they sank, they were not witches... but if they floated, well they were witches and died for it. It was about a fair as religious authorities were / are - not al all in fact!
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 01:45:08 PM »
Really goes to show what their actual justifications were...
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Offline YRM_DM

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Re: Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.
« Reply #28 on: Today at 02:18:31 PM »
Throughout history, people have used false accusations to prey on fears to hurt other people.  The Salem Witch Trials was a bunch of teenage girls feeding off each other's drama and possibly toxic fueled hallucinations to get a bunch of innocent people killed.

During the inquisition, people turned in business competitors.

In dictatorships, people are falsely accused of speaking out against the regime.

Whatever insecure, troubled group has power... there will be someone inventing drama to take to that group to hurt someone else.
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