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Offline EyesOpen

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EyesOpen - new member
« on: October 27, 2016, 11:57:08 AM »
Hello Everyone,

My name is Mark and I am a 50+ years old.  I currently live in a small town in the Midwest, but have lived in a variety of other cities, states, and countries.  I am married with two children.  My wife is a wonderful woman who also happens to be a devout Catholic.  I was raised and schooled Catholic, but had dismissed it all about the time I left for college.  I discounted the bible as a collection of made up stories that made no sense as cohesive dogma for any religion.   I was convinced that there was no god as described in the conflicting accounts of the bible or, if there was, I didn't want anything to do with him.   As a result, I considered myself agnostic, kind of hedging my bet in case there was some all powerful being.  For a long time, I set the whole thing aside and just didn't think about it too much.  However, recent events have moved me to re-examine my position and I find myself moving steadily toward atheism.

I am interested in exploring more on this topic.

Thanks
Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it

Offline jdawg70

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 01:02:32 PM »
Hello Everyone,
'ello and welcome to the forum.

Quote
My name is Mark and I am a 50+ years old.  I currently live in a small town in the Midwest, but have lived in a variety of other cities, states, and countries.  I am married with two children.  My wife is a wonderful woman who also happens to be a devout Catholic.  I was raised and schooled Catholic, but had dismissed it all about the time I left for college.  I discounted the bible as a collection of made up stories that made no sense as cohesive dogma for any religion.   I was convinced that there was no god as described in the conflicting accounts of the bible or, if there was, I didn't want anything to do with him.   As a result, I considered myself agnostic, kind of hedging my bet in case there was some all powerful being.  For a long time, I set the whole thing aside and just didn't think about it too much.  However, recent events have moved me to re-examine my position and I find myself moving steadily toward atheism.
One thing I will advise you on is to be somewhat cautious with labels such as 'agnostic' and 'atheist'.  Basically, keep in mind that what you think of as 'agnostic' may or may not match with what others think of as 'agnostic', and there has at times been some pedantic discussions and arguments revolving around that topic in the past here.

But I suppose to kick off some topical discussion with you[1], to you, what is the difference between 'agnostic' and 'atheist', or perhaps more specifically, what does 'being an atheist' mean to you?
 1. ...and I realize this is an Introductions thread so it's alright if you don't want to get into thorough discussions here; you can consider my questions as just food for thought if you'd like.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline rev45

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 01:36:29 PM »
Hello fellow small town Midwesterner. 
Here read a book.  It's free.
http://www.literatureproject.com/

Could a being create the fifty billion galaxies, each with two hundred billion stars, then rejoice in the smell of burning goat flesh?   Ron Patterson

Offline EyesOpen

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2016, 02:23:57 PM »
Thank you for the welcome and the insight.  I'll look for existing discussion threads, maybe we can talk there...

Hello!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 02:32:29 PM by EyesOpen »
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Offline shnozzola

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2016, 04:16:37 PM »
Welcome Eyes,
   Enjoy the discussions.  If it isn't too personal, it would be interesting to hear what recent events caused you to reexamine your position.   I know 9/11 was a changing event for me - not so recent anymore.

Shnozz
We have guided missiles and misguided men.  ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline none

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2016, 07:56:50 PM »
EyesOpen you might want to check out ignosticism I'm not sure ignosticism gets too much notice on this site
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 08:00:55 PM by none »
Fuck the Bible, you can't even eat in it.

First I told my imaginary friend about Jesus, then I told Jesus about my imaginary friend.

Sorry Allah, I pee with both hands.

If you are going to be a dick do it in a timely manner, ok?

Offline jdawg70

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2016, 12:12:17 AM »
EyesOpen you might want to check out ignosticism I'm not sure ignosticism gets too much notice on this site

Pedantically I think of myself as an ignostic atheist, but I've ultimately found it to be semantically useless - that is, it communicates nothing of value, at least not consistently so as to be helpful in providing information to someone I'm talking to.

Basically, while I largely think it most accurate to say that I do not possess a belief in the existence of god and that I do not think there is a shared common understanding of what the arrangement of letters 'g-o-d' mean thereby making the starting point of all inquiry into this 'g-o-d' thingie asking "what do we mean by 'god'"...yeah see saying "I'm an ignostic atheist" simply fails to convey that 99.99% of the time, and it is somewhat questionable as to how useful such a distinction really is in the grand scheme of the discussions revolving around god or religion.  So I generally just leave the label and classification of gnosis out of it until it becomes relevant, and sometimes that turns into some agnostic or gnostic form of atheism[1].

none, do you identify as an ignostic atheist or somesuch?  Am I understanding, explaining, and/or applying the label 'ignostic' correctly or not in your view?
 1. For example, I would probably claim some 'agnostic atheist' label if we were clearly talking about a wootastic Karen Armstrong/Bishop Spong/Suspect-it-applies-to-OldChurchGuy god.  I would probably claim some degree of 'gnostic atheist' label if we were clearly talking about some dude that shoots lightning from the top of a mountain.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline EyesOpen

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2016, 05:54:04 AM »
Welcome Eyes,
   Enjoy the discussions.  If it isn't too personal, it would be interesting to hear what recent events caused you to reexamine your position.   I know 9/11 was a changing event for me - not so recent anymore.

Shnozz

Hi Shnozz,

Thanks.  I don't know how this sort of thing isn't personal for someone who is taught to believe and sorts their way out of it.  However, I don't mind telling you.  My wife has become increasingly more religious over the past several years.  I began to look at it from the standpoint of trying to understand why.  Nothing as significant as 9/11.
Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it

Offline EyesOpen

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2016, 06:00:32 AM »
EyesOpen you might want to check out ignosticism I'm not sure ignosticism gets too much notice on this site

Hello none,

Thank you, I will.  However, as I understand ignosticsm, it tends to start from the position that the concept of gods is meaningless.  I haven't given this much thought in the past and am unsure if it is worth the effort to further classify our differences in viewpoint.
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Offline EyesOpen

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2016, 06:09:01 AM »
EyesOpen you might want to check out ignosticism I'm not sure ignosticism gets too much notice on this site

Pedantically I think of myself as an ignostic atheist, but I've ultimately found it to be semantically useless - that is, it communicates nothing of value, at least not consistently so as to be helpful in providing information to someone I'm talking to.

Basically, while I largely think it most accurate to say that I do not possess a belief in the existence of god and that I do not think there is a shared common understanding of what the arrangement of letters 'g-o-d' mean thereby making the starting point of all inquiry into this 'g-o-d' thingie asking "what do we mean by 'god'"...yeah see saying "I'm an ignostic atheist" simply fails to convey that 99.99% of the time, and it is somewhat questionable as to how useful such a distinction really is in the grand scheme of the discussions revolving around god or religion.  So I generally just leave the label and classification of gnosis out of it until it becomes relevant, and sometimes that turns into some agnostic or gnostic form of atheism[1].

none, do you identify as an ignostic atheist or somesuch?  Am I understanding, explaining, and/or applying the label 'ignostic' correctly or not in your view?
 1. For example, I would probably claim some 'agnostic atheist' label if we were clearly talking about a wootastic Karen Armstrong/Bishop Spong/Suspect-it-applies-to-OldChurchGuy god.  I would probably claim some degree of 'gnostic atheist' label if we were clearly talking about some dude that shoots lightning from the top of a mountain.

Hi jdwag,

I agree with the definition of an ignostic atheist as someone who finds that while the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there are no gods. 

It differs slightly from what I consider my viewpoint in that I haven't subscribed to the concept of god(s) being meaningless. While they may not mean anything to me, it obviously has meaning to millions of other people.  Does that make any sense or am I looking at this skewed? 
Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it

Offline jetson

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2016, 07:45:18 AM »
Welcome to the forum.

I'm on the strong atheist side myself. Religion in the U.S. is so intertwined in our culture that it is practically impossible to live without touching it, or having it touch you. That being said, we each get to determine the filters we use to advise our actions and decisions. We can choose to participate in this society without the burden of mythology informing or influencing us. It really is that easy, IMO.


Offline jdawg70

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2016, 08:19:47 AM »
Hi jdwag,

I agree with the definition of an ignostic atheist as someone who finds that while the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there are no gods. 

It differs slightly from what I consider my viewpoint in that I haven't subscribed to the concept of god(s) being meaningless. While they may not mean anything to me, it obviously has meaning to millions of other people.  Does that make any sense or am I looking at this skewed?
Makes enough sense to me.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline none

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 03:49:00 PM »
EyesOpen you might want to check out ignosticism I'm not sure ignosticism gets too much notice on this site

Hello none,

Thank you, I will.  However, as I understand ignosticsm, it tends to start from the position that the concept of gods is meaningless.  I haven't given this much thought in the past and am unsure if it is worth the effort to further classify our differences in viewpoint.
ha that is the point that defining god as a concept is as intellectually irresponsible as saying god is a deity or flesh, or anything else
maybe a "flash in the pan" so to speak
Fuck the Bible, you can't even eat in it.

First I told my imaginary friend about Jesus, then I told Jesus about my imaginary friend.

Sorry Allah, I pee with both hands.

If you are going to be a dick do it in a timely manner, ok?

Offline none

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 03:51:54 PM »
EyesOpen you might want to check out ignosticism I'm not sure ignosticism gets too much notice on this site

Pedantically I think of myself as an ignostic atheist, but I've ultimately found it to be semantically useless - that is, it communicates nothing of value, at least not consistently so as to be helpful in providing information to someone I'm talking to.

Basically, while I largely think it most accurate to say that I do not possess a belief in the existence of god and that I do not think there is a shared common understanding of what the arrangement of letters 'g-o-d' mean thereby making the starting point of all inquiry into this 'g-o-d' thingie asking "what do we mean by 'god'"...yeah see saying "I'm an ignostic atheist" simply fails to convey that 99.99% of the time, and it is somewhat questionable as to how useful such a distinction really is in the grand scheme of the discussions revolving around god or religion.  So I generally just leave the label and classification of gnosis out of it until it becomes relevant, and sometimes that turns into some agnostic or gnostic form of atheism[1].

none, do you identify as an ignostic atheist or somesuch?  Am I understanding, explaining, and/or applying the label 'ignostic' correctly or not in your view?
 1. For example, I would probably claim some 'agnostic atheist' label if we were clearly talking about a wootastic Karen Armstrong/Bishop Spong/Suspect-it-applies-to-OldChurchGuy god.  I would probably claim some degree of 'gnostic atheist' label if we were clearly talking about some dude that shoots lightning from the top of a mountain.
I'm atheist to the abrahamic deity, doesn't change my ignosticism
I dunno, I figure I don't hold a belief in that which I am ignorant about...
it might just be semantic nonsense, maybe some feedback could clear it up
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 04:11:28 PM by none »
Fuck the Bible, you can't even eat in it.

First I told my imaginary friend about Jesus, then I told Jesus about my imaginary friend.

Sorry Allah, I pee with both hands.

If you are going to be a dick do it in a timely manner, ok?

Offline velkyn

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2016, 06:50:39 PM »
welcome Eyes!   I'm a strong atheist to the gods claimed by humans so far.  I'd personally like Sekhmet to be real but that would be a bit hard on humans :) 

have fun in the fray!
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Offline EyesOpen

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2016, 10:41:56 AM »
Thank you velkyn,

I'll try to keep level head and open mind.  I looked up Sekhmet and she didn't seem that scary...
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Offline velkyn

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2016, 07:47:04 PM »
Thank you velkyn,

I'll try to keep level head and open mind.  I looked up Sekhmet and she didn't seem that scary...

well, an angry goddess that wanted to annihilate humanity is a bit of a thing  :)
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Offline jetson

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2016, 07:27:28 AM »
Thank you velkyn,

I'll try to keep level head and open mind.  I looked up Sekhmet and she didn't seem that scary...

well, an angry goddess that wanted to annihilate humanity is a bit of a thing  :)

Well, we could rename her "Hillary" and call it a day.  ;D

I mean, a real life goddess who is known on the right for quite a list of murders and crimes - great start if you ask me. Not sure why anyone would have the guts to challenge her. lol

/sarcasm

Offline velkyn

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2016, 05:00:38 PM »
Well, we could rename her "Hillary" and call it a day.  ;D

I mean, a real life goddess who is known on the right for quite a list of murders and crimes - great start if you ask me. Not sure why anyone would have the guts to challenge her. lol

/sarcasm

alas, I don't think Hillary is much of a beer drinker.   ;D
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Offline jetson

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Re: EyesOpen - new member
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2016, 07:17:32 PM »
Well, we could rename her "Hillary" and call it a day.  ;D

I mean, a real life goddess who is known on the right for quite a list of murders and crimes - great start if you ask me. Not sure why anyone would have the guts to challenge her. lol

/sarcasm

alas, I don't think Hillary is much of a beer drinker.   ;D

True - but that may change soon...either that or legalizing marijuana across the board as it may be the only way for the sane people to tolerate the Rethuglicans for the next 4-8 years.